"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

[TheHeatSeeker0]

Yeah, we can really do without this whole "detractor nickname" nonsense. It just makes your argument look unnecessarily mean-spirited, like you're just in it to piss people off.

Everything I said and that's the only thing you're commenting about? Seems more to me that you're just being sensitive but whatever. I mean really, sorry if you got offended but I think that game is whack, and not just for it's story telling.

 

 

Don't forget that the tone in SA1 and SA2 is basically a Roland Emmerich movie. Both games capitalizing on the success of Independence Day and Godzilla. I think 9/11 even harmed this franchise too.

Wow, never thought to actually make a connection to those movies(plus, I never saw Independence day in it's entirety). Good going there man.

[StaticMania]

Being obviously negative towards the game doesn't really give points to the argument.

[Double A]

Here's a good summary of why people like SA2's story

Nobody outside of Roger mentioned the flow and payoff

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Here's a good summary of why people like SA2's story

Nobody outside of Roger mentioned the flow and payoff

 

*image*

As far as the Plot part goes, point 8 (character arc) has some weakened parts that need reinforcing depending on the characters (like Amy for example, even with her contributions) and point 9 (romance) was really barebones and was nothing more than a tease.

 

Granted, everything else about the list is fair, tho the title "Why is SA2 good" can come off as a little biased without making note of the flaws along with its strengths. But that's just me, I prefer a more moderate stance that acknowledges good AND bad credit where it's due. And while I understand that SA2 has a lot of good parts to it, it seems to be giving it way too much credit not to make note of the bad.

 

All in all, SA2 was good for its time, and while it hasn't aged well some aspects of it were done better than other titles. But we can do better...I suppose that's what some are craving after feeling underwhelmed in the other titles like Colors and especially Generations.

 

 

Everything I said and that's the only thing you're commenting about? Seems more to me that you're just being sensitive but whatever. I mean really, sorry if you got offended but I think that game is whack, and not just for it's story telling.

Well it is somewhat insulting to those who actually like the game.

 

There's no problem if you don't like it yourself, I mean, I have problems with it too. But it makes your point much more understandable to avoid the detractor nicknames - even people here who adore the game find it much easier to agree with or accept your point without it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Everything I said and that's the only thing you're commenting about? Seems more to me that you're just being sensitive but whatever. I mean really, sorry if you got offended but I think that game is whack, and not just for it's story telling.

 

 

Well there's your use of out-dated nicknames, buzzwords and whatnot which have pretty much joined the ranks of "Green eyes" levels of rarity at this point.

"Mistake Number 1"

The thing about SA2 vs. Colors is that when people bring up flaws within SA2, a good amount of times, they nitpick certain aspects and make it sound as if stupid or something, as with Colors, the writing overall is quite boring, and doesn't need to be nitpicked because you the writing barely provides any meat to it to make you not care about the flaws, and most of it lies within the dialogue itself and plot point that barely went anywhere, so even if there was a good story, the constant dry jokes and slapstick will drag it down.

 

 

And then there's your broad-sided snap at Colors supporters, with your post implying that more often than not they'll just nitpick SA2's story and "try" to make it seem stupid; not to mention you've presented such an assumptive claim without supporting evidence. I'd advise not ti rush in with such a bias one-side approach there. "Mistake Number 2"

 

And ironically, you end up doing a lot of the stuff you accuse the Colors supporters for doing.

 

Let's not be fooled into thinking that one side truly is more "right" than the other concerning these stories..

 

 

And I wouldn't so rashly call someone who's concerned about such so "sensitive" when your post comes off as just being negative for the sake of lols and negativity in such a manner.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Here's a good summary of why people like SA2's story

Nobody outside of Roger mentioned the flow and payoff

*Snip*

Uggh.

 

I'd rather not have a list made by some higher power speak for me in why I like/love a game and its story. Because that's really what this is, a list of various reasons for why various people for extremely various reasons like SA2's story. It's not a summation of why people as whole love SA2. It's basically a list of elements that SA2's story, as well as other Sonic stories are in possession of, and much of that is based on perception and opinion as well.

 

I could just as easily make a "summation" of why people love Colors, Unleashed, or Lost World's story and it'd have the same bout of credibility that this proposed list does.

 

'Tis the beauty of the mind and perception, people have a knack for finding value in so various things, despite how it may appear to others.

[Double A]

err It was based on the very basis of storytelling not some random thoughs. You should be carefull with your assumptions, the hero's journey is highschool level stuff:

(the real image is in a format I can import so I only have the one with typos )

 

And yes I would love to see why Sonic Colors is ''awesome'' because the only reason people give me is ''it's not 06''. So if you can come with a list that is about story structure and not ''because it's going against the formula I don't like'' i'd be glad to see that.

[Sami]

err It was based on the very basis of storytelling not some random thoughs. You should be carefull with your assumptions, the hero's journey is highschool level stuff:

(the real image is in a format I can import so I only have the one with typos )

 

And yes I would love to see why Sonic Colors is ''awesome'' because the only reason people give me is ''it's not 06''. So if you can come with a list that is about story structure and not ''because it's going against the formula I don't like'' i'd be glad to see that.

 

Are you implying that Sonic Adventure 2 is inherently good because it adheres to one of the most rudimentary narrative structures ever conceived on a basic level?

 

Dragon Ball Evolution is a movie in which the structure of the plot follows that of the Hero's Journey, the villains are proactive, the environments have to do with what's happening, and so on and so forth. It's fucking garbage. Paying attention in 9th Grade English doesn't make you a good writer.

[Vertekins]

I feel that the best attempts story wise are the first Adventure, Unleashed and the Storybooks.

 

Heroes' is incredibly boring and mostly uneventful with characters fighting for the stupidest of reasons and no good sense of build-up.

 

Shadow's tries, way way too hard to be serious business and comes-off as terrible. It's also difficult to tell how the story canonically goes until the last story. Which makes you question what Shadow has truly experienced.

 

2006's story and plot aspects are practically rotten at the very foundations and the rest of it is logically-challenged and hardly ever uses the cast well.

 

Colours forgets it's telling a story in favor of pushing shitty 'humor' to the forefront. It exaggerates Sonic for absolutely no good reason, resulting in a character who's portayal took steps backward right after a game that nailed him.

 

Sonic Generations is extremely threadbare in terms of narrative and utilizes the majority of the cast just as badly as '06. There's no stand-out moments and it's boring as hell.

 

And Lost World is actually an improvement on the previous two games but falls flat ending-wise and has few areas of problem characterization.

 

In comparison, Adventure utilized the cast well and had an epic story that interestingly had characters cross paths with a nice sense of mystique. Unleashed had great characterization and an amazing beginning and end with the problem being it's uninteresting middle and the Storybook's meld near-flawless characterization with cleverly thought-out narratives and good messages.

 

SA2's story is pretty good but I've always felt that Tails' contributions were often arbitrary, Shadow was underutilized, the tone was sometimes somewhat pretentious but that was balanced-out mostly by the hero character's optimism and the themes of co-operation and such. And what I'll also say for SA2 is that it portrayed Eggman in particular absolutely superbly.

[Wittymations]

From what is known of SA2, they had to push Rouge, Tails, and Shadow in as playable. So, I assume there were some fast rewrites.

 

Kinda makes you wonder what it was supposed to be with just Eggman, Sonic, and Knuckles as playable.

 

I mean, it still looks like Eggman was supposed to be a huge importance, which, in my book, is A-Okay.

[Double A]

Are you implying that Sonic Adventure 2 is inherently good because it adheres to one of the most rudimentary narrative structures ever conceived on a basic level?

 

Dragon Ball Evolution is a movie in which the structure of the plot follows that of the Hero's Journey, the villains are proactive, the environments have to do with what's happening, and so on and so forth. It's fucking garbage. Paying attention in 9th Grade English doesn't make you a good writer.

That's exactly what i'm saying

SA2 is one of the rare Sonic game that follows a narrative structure that makes the event entertaining. Most Sonic games use cutscenes to introduce levels, dull jokes or talk about stuff that won't have any payoff. It's what I keep saying on this forum since I started to be here. It's not that SA2 is particulary ''clever'' with its story. It's just that it follows some basis in storytelling while most of the other games don't even reach that level! 

Starwars and Matrix  follows that structure and as far as I can remember they did well.

[Zaysho]

That's exactly what i'm saying

SA2 is one of the rare Sonic game that follows a narrative structure that makes the event entertaining. Most Sonic games use cutscenes to introduce levels, dull jokes or talk about stuff that won't have any payoff. It's what I keep saying on this forum since I started to be here. It's not that SA2 is particulary ''clever'' with its story. It's just that it follows some basis in storytelling while most of the other games don't even reach that level! 

Starwars and Matrix  follows that structure and as far as I can remember they did well.

 

I don't think it's the format that's the issue, it's just the delivery of it. In the case of Dragon Ball Evolution, it's crap because the writers just copy/pasted Goku and friends into a basic story that's always existed with no effort to really hone in on what made the source material great. I'd argue Lost World falls into the same structure, and it's not littered to the brim with bad jokes like Colors is, but I get the impression it's not a Sonic story everyone likes. Even '06 fits the same structure on the most basic level, but it's not a story a lot of people care for, either.

 

I don't think SA2 is looked at fondly by most because of the story structure, I think it has more to do with what actually happened, its themes of revenge and forgiveness, and that it, more or less, did a "dark" story without sacrificing the Sonic identity (but even that is subjective; I've seen plenty of arguments against that type of storytelling in Sonic). At least to me. It's not perfect, either, but I don't think being a basic hero's journey is the reason a lot of people happen to like it.

[Nepenthe]

Everything I said and that's the only thing you're commenting about? Seems more to me that you're just being sensitive but whatever. I mean really, sorry if you got offended but I think that game is whack, and not just for it's story telling.

 

We can have a discussion about games we dislike without using inflammatory language and snide implications that really are only there to take digs at fans. I also rolled my eyes at the "sorry you got offended," as if anyone's annoyance with you was somehow a happenstance or mistake you weren't at all culpable in. You can do better than that. xP

[Rusty Spy]

That's exactly what i'm saying

SA2 is one of the rare Sonic game that follows a narrative structure that makes the event entertaining. Most Sonic games use cutscenes to introduce levels, dull jokes or talk about stuff that won't have any payoff. It's what I keep saying on this forum since I started to be here. It's not that SA2 is particulary ''clever'' with its story. It's just that it follows some basis in storytelling while most of the other games don't even reach that level! 

Starwars and Matrix  follows that structure and as far as I can remember they did well.

Fair enough, but simply saying that makes the story itself good is subjective.

 

Yeah, sure, the fact SA2 follows a clear narrative structure is a good thing for a game trying to tell a story, but that should be the only inherent merit it has. Whether or not it actually succeeds at entertaining the audience is subject to opinion.

 

Also, I wouldn't rule out most other Sonic games as not having proper narrative structure either. The only major instances that this point can be argued based on the discussion here are Colors and Unleashed.

[Sami]

That's exactly what i'm saying

SA2 is one of the rare Sonic game that follows a narrative structure that makes the event entertaining. Most Sonic games use cutscenes to introduce levels, dull jokes or talk about stuff that won't have any payoff. It's what I keep saying on this forum since I started to be here. It's not that SA2 is particulary ''clever'' with its story. It's just that it follows some basis in storytelling while most of the other games don't even reach that level! 

Starwars and Matrix  follows that structure and as far as I can remember they did well.

 

Star Wars and Matrix weren't successful because they adhered to the structure of the Hero's Journey, they were successful because they conveyed thought provoking and engaging narratives. The Hero's Journey is not an all encompassing guide to writing a proper story, it's merely a means by which writers can convey their stories. Following it is not a mark of quality in any way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Or in short, the Hero's Journey is a template for the storytelling, not a requirement. You can completely ignore it and still deliver a jaw dropping plot - though more pedantic souls might actually find a subtle following of the Journey in works that pay no mind to it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

err It was based on the very basis of storytelling not some random thoughs. You should be carefull with your assumptions, the hero's journey is highschool level stuff:

(the real image is in a format I can import so I only have the one with typos )

 

 

Is there any particular reason for this one formula?

 

Hooray hurrah, a story apparently fits this particular opinion of how a hero's journey should go. No wonder apparently it's a "rarity" if it needs to adhere to such opinionated modifications.

 

Not to mention, how boring it would be if all hero stories really adhered to this single strategy.

 

And are you seriously trying to talk down to me like I'm not understanding "high schooler material"? Give me a break.

 

 

And yes I would love to see why Sonic Colors is ''awesome'' because the only reason people give me is ''it's not 06''. So if you can come with a list that is about story structure and not ''because it's going against the formula I don't like'' i'd be glad to see that.

Can we please not resort to petty generalizations just to try and slander one side or the other in a cock fight other whose story is "better" please?

[Indigo Rush]

I would actually think less of a story if it adhered to one of those charts. There are so many other ways to tell a meaningful and exciting story, why should it have to adhere to that kind of a structure? There are so many facets in the realm of storytelling that it's rather pompous to think that sticking to one "tried and true" "high-school" formula is the best, if not only, way to handle a narrative. 

 

A story can be simple and be good. A story can be epic and be terrible. It's much more dynamic than it's being made out to be in this discussion.

[TearForFear]

 

 

 

 

Sounds a lot like Tails' story arc in Lost World for me

 

Adventure: Tails joins Sonic in another adventure to save critters and ruin Eggman's plans in a new world

Supernatural Aid: his intelligence and his Miles Electric (along with his two tails of course)

The threshold gets crossed when he's forced to join forces with Eggman.

Challanges and Temptations: Tails is so obsessed in proving to Sonic that he's better than Eggman, that he obnoxiously badmouths the doctor at every occasion and tries to fix Cubot, but fails spectacularly.

Abyss: he loses so many points in Sonic's eyes, that the hedgehog scolds him for the Cubot incident and doesn't listen to him anymore when the fox tries to warn him about the trap.

Death: Tails sacrifices himself to save Sonic's life and gets captured by the Zeti, who wants him to become their robotic slave.

Rebirth: Tails manages to save himself from the robotizer.

Transformation: literally and figuratively. He's a robot (or at least he has a removable robotic armor), and he finally gets a chance to be useful in a good way, by scaring the Zeti and curing Sonic from his depression.

Atonement: he accepts Sonic's apologies with ease and assures him that everything is water under the bridge.Thus, Tails atones for his a**hole-ish behaviours in the first half of the story.

Gift of the goddess: the planet's energy goes back to its rightful owners.

Return: Tails returns to Earth with Sonic to receive Amy's compliments.

[Kuzu]

...Are we trying to argue if SA2 is a "real" story or not just because it follows a certain pattern of story telling?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

...Are we trying to argue if SA2 is a "real" story or not just because it follows a certain pattern of story telling?

 

Can we at least agree that SA2 is often a hilarious story? Like the part where Knuckles almost kills everyone in a space shuttle and then friggin ditches while they recover? Or the bit where dialogue runs over each other? Or... or really half of what Tails says?

[Wittymations]

The cheese is part of its charm, c'mon.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The cheese is part of its charm, c'mon.

And people say the same thing about Colors' story too.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

And people say the same thing about Colors' story too.

Ehhhh that's not really equatable. SA2's charm comes from its attempts to play so many utterly ridiculous events with a straight face, while Colors, like most Western productions these days, is far too self-conscious to fall into the same category. It's the difference between an old 50's scare 'em straight film and a sitcom special episode. The lameness of the first type is thanks to its boundless (too boundless) faith in its message; the lameness of the second is due to its half-hearted, awkward attempts to produce some message of its own.

Perhaps we might put it another way. Say your uncool, kindly uncle and your self-aware, wittier friend both tell you an awful joke. You can still laugh well with the former, if only for the sincerity of his attempt, but nine times out of ten you'll end up laughing *at* the friend for thinking it was a good joke to begin with. It's not just the content that sets the mood, but the person behind it, and I would say the same applies here.

Sorry if that made no sense, I is 2 tired

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Can we at least agree that SA2 is often a hilarious story? Like the part where Knuckles almost kills everyone in a space shuttle and then friggin ditches while they recover? Or the bit where dialogue runs over each other? Or... or really half of what Tails says?

The last two parts I felt were a bit "da fuq?" than anything hilarious.

 

Although what Knuckles did was pretty damn funny.