"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

But I'm not focusing on the levels and how they tie into the story's plot, I'm focusing strictly on the story's cutscenes and their lack of chronology in the very beginning of Sonic Colors.

What "lack of chronology" was there? They came via elevator as was shown at the beginning in the Nintendo DS version, and shown via flashback in the first cutscene of the Wii version, establishing that they did so preceding the first level.

 

It's no mystery how the order of said events occurred there.

[Ash Cloud]

Yes, this is the problem. You're taking it out of context, and thus missing important information.

Okay, I just re-watched a video on Youtube to refresh my memory. Honestly, the cutscenes barely tie in with the levels in this game, so I'm not understanding where I'm supposed to get this "important information". You finish the cutscene, it takes you to the level map, you click on it and then the level starts. The only thing that ties in is that you're in an amusement park and it takes you to a level with a theme based on the part of the amusement park you're in. You don't need the levels to understand what's going on in the story.

 

 

What "lack of chronology" was there? They came via elevator as was shown at the beginning in the Nintendo DS version, and shown via flashback in the first cutscene of the Wii version, establishing that they did so preceding the first level.

 

It's no mystery how the order of said events occurred there.

 

I said "lack of chronology" because the elevator scene, although it happened in a flashback, occurs after they get to the park. I simply believe it would have been better if the elevator scene occurred first, is all. That would have made more sense than have them get to the park, and then flashback to them in the elevator when they could have simply shown them in the elevator and then in the park.

No one stated it was a mystery. All I said was that it's my preference.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I think you're missing the point.

 

No one said you had to tie in levels with the story to actually understand what's going on, but that with videogames in general if you want the full in-context picture you need to take both gameplay and cutscenes into consideration.

 

By cutscenes alone, you can have a basic understanding of the plot and what happens, but the gameplay, level arrangement, chronology, etc are just as important when making a straight documentation of how a game and it's story plays out from start to finish.

 

For instance, boss battles tell you how an enemy was defeated, and how also, additional plot elements like say, a blasted robot arm jamming a space weapon come to be.

 

Standard levels also can give you an idea of how environments work and set up shop for plot elements that will impact the story and its characters.

 

Colors' levels also shows off the powers of the wisps and how they actually work, which isn't really that well summed in the cutscenes.

[Rusty Spy]

It's mostly a matter of narrative structure. It's the way the story is delivered that is the primary discussing point. In the case of this games opening, the fact that the game starts as a level before introducing the story could technically count as a point where the game and story slightly merge since, from the story's perspective, it opens up with Sonic and Tails already at the park, and explaining why and how they're there through light exposition.
 

[Ash Cloud]

I think you're missing the point.

 

No one said you had to tie in levels with the story to actually understand what's going on, but that with videogames in general if you want the full in-context picture you need to take both gameplay and cutscenes into consideration.

 

By cutscenes alone, you can have a basic understanding of the plot and what happens, but the gameplay, level arrangement, chronology, etc are just as important when making a straight documentation of how a game and it's story plays out.

 

Okay, this in bold. I'm speaking solely of the plot. The story. I'm not talking about the entire game as a package. I'm not trying to make a "straight documentation of the game". It seems to me that you're seriously overthinking this. All I did was make a simple opinion over something that occurs in a single cutscene. I don't need the levels to form an opinion on this cutscene.

 

 

It's mostly a matter of narrative structure. It's the way the story is delivered that is the primary discussing point. In the case of this games opening, the fact that the game starts as a level before introducing the story could technically count as a point where the game and story slightly merge since, from the story's perspective, it opens up with Sonic and Tails already at the park, and explaining why and how they're there through light exposition.

 

 

And this is exactly what I was stating in my first comment about the matter on why I would have preferred the elevator cutscene to be first, and this is what Roger and Luke were getting at in their video. I don't want to have Sonic and Tails stand around and explain things that happen in the story. I prefer to see them in action. This is my preference, simple as that.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Okay, this in bold. I'm speaking solely of the plot. The story. I'm not talking about the entire game as a package. I'm not trying to make a "straight documentation of the game". It seems to me that you're seriously overthinking this. All I did was make a simple opinion over something that occurs in a single cutscene. I don't need the levels to form an opinion on this cutscene.

If you're going at it that way, then you're going at the scene described in a manner that takes it out of the context through which it took place in actuality, and as a result, either misses the point, misuses and/or mis-represents it, especially in a debate.

I said "lack of chronology" because the elevator scene, although it happened in a flashback, occurs after they get to the park.

If it happens in flashback, then it still happened clearly before they entered the park. Showing a flashback, no matter the duration of time that it took place before the base current scene, as long as it stays consistent and legit to the timeline of the story and/or canon, does not create a "lack of chronology".

[Ash Cloud]

If you're going at it that way, then you're going at the scene described in a manner that takes it out of the context through which it took place in actuality, and as a result, either misses the point, misuses and/or mis-represents it, especially in a debate.

Now this is getting super redundant, and this time I mean in an "unnecessary excess" kind of way.

How about we look at the definition of context?

 

"Context:  the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed."

Now let's look at this from a context point of view. When we look at the very first level, we establish that we're in an amusement park. The cutscene where they're walking through the park and flashback to the elevator occurs afterwards.

Now, if we follow my suggestion and place the elevator scene first before the first level, we establish that Sonic and Tails are on their way to an amusement park, then the level starts.

It's not out of context whatsoever. It makes perfect sense no matter which way you look at this. I simply prefer the latter.

Now can we please go back to Roger and Luke's opinions and stop harboring over mine? I really don't want to debate over my own opinion, if it's not too much trouble.

 

[Rusty Spy]

If it happens in flashback, then it still happened clearly before they entered the park. Showing a flashback, no matter the duration of time that it took place before the base current scene, as long as it stays consistent and legit to the timeline of the story and/or canon, does not create a "lack of chronology".

What she means (I think) is that it's weird for the story to start out at a place, and then immediately explain how they got there for no reason. Either open up the story with them going to the place, or don't bother wasting time explaining that they went to the place they're already at.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

And this is exactly what I was stating in my first comment about the matter on why I would have preferred the elevator cutscene to be first, and this is what Roger and Luke were getting at in their video. I don't want to have Sonic and Tails stand around and explain things that happen in the story.

Doesn't really make sense seeing as how the flashback was a case of them showing the elevator scene and not just telling the audience the exact play-by-play of the ride up.

[Ash Cloud]

What he means (I think) is that it's weird for the story to start out at a place, and then immediately explain how they got there for no reason. Either open up the story with them going to the place, or don't bother wasting time explaining that they went to the place they're already at.

Yes, yes! Someone understands!  ^.^

By the way, I'm female.   C:

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

What he means (I think) is that it's weird for the story to start out at a place, and then immediately explain how they got there for no reason. Either open up the story with them going to the place, or don't bother wasting time explaining that they went to the place they're already at.

Saying it's weird and unusual is fine, but claiming a "lack of chronology" insinuates that there's little sense of when the events actually take place, which isn't the case in the subject matter.

 

So is this just a case of her stance being mis-worded?

[Ash Cloud]

Saying it's weird and unusual is fine, but claiming a "lack of chronology" insinuates that there's little sense of when the events actually take place, which is the case in the subject matter.

I also stated that the elevator flashback should be it's own cutscene. If it was it's own cutscene, then no, it wouldn't make chronological sense.

But I digress, I shouldn't have said "lack of chronology".

[Indigo Rush]

So is this just a case of her stance being mis-worded?

 

That's usually how a lot of debates start around here, yeah.

 

I honestly didn't understand what she was trying to say until Rusty Spy clarified it.

[Rusty Spy]

Saying it's weird and unusual is fine, but claiming a "lack of chronology" insinuates that there's little sense of when the events actually take place, which is the case in the subject matter.

 

So is this just a case of her stance being mis-worded?

I guess yeah, since the reason Roger and Luke bring this up is to point out that Colors' story wastes time explaining itself.

[StaticMania]

The 1st event that kicked off the Plot doesn't "Need" to be the 1st event that happens in the Story, no matter what type of media this is. Also seeing it "in action" is why we can see it in Flash back form...they briefly made mention of it and then thought back to it. Placing at the Chronological beginning doesn't mean it would make anymore sense than it would the way it was already used in.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Okay then.   On with the discussion!

[Ash Cloud]

That's usually how a lot of debates start around here, yeah.

 

I honestly didn't understand what she was trying to say until Rusty Spy clarified it.

..........Seriously? I mean, I understand I'm not Shakespeare, but I think I articulated myself at least fairly okay. It wasn't until I said "lack of chronology" that we started going back and forth.

 

 

Okay then.   On with the discussion!

 

Agreed, but after all of this, I don't even know which of Roger's points we should even "discuss".

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

..........Seriously? I mean, I understand I'm not Shakespeare, but I think I articulated myself at least fairly okay. It wasn't until I said "lack of chronology" that we started going back and forth.

Meh, it happens. In life, we definitely need to choose our words and tones shrewdly and carefully, especially when we're conveying a message.

 

I mean heck, that's one of Roger's major flaws himself, and why many folks tend to have major issues with him.

 

Miss-firing your statements as such, can send rather jarring messages and signals to your audience.

[Ash Cloud]

Meh, it happens. In life, we definitely need to choose our words and tones shrewdly and carefully, especially when we're conveying a message.

 

I mean heck, that's one of Roger's major flaws himself, and why many folks sometimes tend to have major issues with him.

 

Miss-firing your statements as such, can send rather jarring messages and signals to your audience.

But before I made that statement, was I still not clear? 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

But before I made that statement, was I still not clear? 

'Fraid not, madam.

 

But hey, like I said, even Roger has this problem, to the point where it's quite a popular criticism addressed to him.

[Ash Cloud]

'Fraid not.

 

But hey, like I said, even Roger has this problem, to the point where it's quite a popular criticism addressed to him.

Ah, oh well. I'll try to make sure I'm as clear as possible in the future.

Sooooo, back to the topic.  

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

That's the spirit!

[The Deleter]

About misfiring statements...

 

If people are so concerned about this place being viewed as a "Merry Little Hate Club", why not change the thread that is technically dedicated to ripping Roger's videos a new one, into a general Dissected discussion thread that dissects his videos from time to time, but mostly chooses the points brought up in his videos as the main points of discussion? The line for what's considered "off-topic" discussions is blurred enough as is, and opting for only criticism does more bad than good for a reputation.

[Celestia]

I also stated that the elevator flashback should be it's own cutscene. If it was it's own cutscene, then no, it wouldn't make chronological sense.

But I digress, I shouldn't have said "lack of chronology".

Okay, I understand that. Personal preference isn't that big a deal.

 

The thing is, if the elevator scene happened at the start instead of the flashback...what would that change? Would anything about the game be significantly different because of that? Not really. The story would literally be exactly the same but with one insignificant change in when one event was established.

 

About misfiring statements...

 

If people are so concerned about this place being viewed as a "Merry Little Hate Club", why not change the thread that is technically dedicated to ripping Roger's videos a new one, into a general Dissected discussion thread that dissects his videos from time to time, but mostly chooses the points brought up in his videos as the main points of discussion? The line for what's considered "off-topic" discussions is blurred enough as is, and opting for only criticism does more bad than good for a reputation.

Alternatively, both sides could stop painting each other as Evil Jerks over Sonic the Hedgehog opinions.

[Ash Cloud]

Okay, I understand that. Personal preference isn't that big a deal.

 

The thing is, if the elevator scene happened at the start instead of the flashback...what would that change? Would anything about the game be significantly different because of that? Not really. The story would literally be exactly the same but with one insignificant change in when one event was established.

Quoted myself to avoid repeating:

 

 

 

When we look at the very first level, we establish that we're in an amusement park. The cutscene where they're walking through the park and flashback to the elevator occurs afterwards.

Now, if we follow my suggestion and place the elevator scene first before the first level, we establish that Sonic and Tails are on their way to an amusement park, then the level starts.

It's not out of context whatsoever. It makes perfect sense no matter which way you look at this. I simply prefer the latter.

 

That's it. I'm not asking Sega to go back and change the game, I would have just preferred it to happen that way.