"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I recall one video of his, regarding Sonic 06 I think, that made me realize how things like Anthropomorphic characters have a different reception in Japan than they do in the the West, hence why we had a human princess in 06.

 

This was probably the most eye-opening thing I've gotten from them, as I hardly noticed how few anthropomorphic characters there were in Japan compared to the US or Europe.

 

As far as their videos go, I can't say I disagree with everything. I suppose thanks to me being blunt myself that I can tread through some of his points without being too upset, but for all their flaws I think they're far better than other people dissecting the franchise with there "Reasons why Sonic sucks #1758295" articles. Granted, I'd wish I could argue some counterpoints on their videos particularly with the Ken and Pontac parts, but I'd rather have these people be our voice at the moment than certain game sites out there.

[Komodin]

...Meh.

 

While the guy does raise a point from time to time, the way he actually presents them just comes across as being unnecessarily obnoxious. Between that and his overt biases for the Adventure games and against the Modern games, frankly, I find the man's stuff to be very repugnant.

 

BTW: The thread tags... seriously, now?

[FriendBot]

...Meh.

 

While the guy does raise a point from time to time, the way he actually presents them just comes across as being unnecessarily obnoxious. Between that and his overt biases for the Adventure games and against the Modern games, frankly, I find the man's stuff to be very repugnant.

 

BTW: The thread tags... seriously, now?

 

Sorry about that, Komo. Just me and silly little brain of mine's trying to be clever and witty.

[Kuzu]

I recall one video of his, regarding Sonic 06 I think, that made me realize how things like Anthropomorphic characters have a different reception in Japan than they do in the the West, hence why we had a human princess in 06.

 

This was probably the most eye-opening thing I've gotten from them, as I hardly noticed how few anthropomorphic characters there were in Japan compared to the US or Europe.

 

As far as their videos go, I can't say I disagree with everything. I suppose thanks to me being blunt myself that I can tread through some of his points without being too upset, but for all their flaws I think they're far better than other people dissecting the franchise with there "Reasons why Sonic sucks #1758295" articles. Granted, I'd wish I could argue some counterpoints on their videos particularly with the Ken and Pontac parts, but I'd rather have these people be our voice at the moment than certain game sites out there.

 

I actually found that to be interesting myself, I didn't realize that tends to be a common thing in Japan so much. I wonder if Japan feels that people won't be able to relate to the characters unless they're "Generic Spiky haired protagonist" hmm...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I actually found that to be interesting myself, I didn't realize that tends to be a common thing in Japan so much. I wonder if Japan feels that people won't be able to relate to the characters unless they're "Generic Spiky haired protagonist" hmm...

That also ties into something from GaijinGoomba about his experience teaching in Japan. He says that a lot of the people there have this kind of island mentality where they don't know too much about the people beyond their borders, such as here in the US. And this leads to a latching of stereotypes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG5gkSl_IjA

 

Although, in a way, you can understand why given Japan's monoculture compared to the west's multiculture melting pot.

 

Although it's funny, because what motivated that particular video was Keiji Inafune's remarks about Japanese developers and how they're less innovative than the west.

[Diogenes]

I know I already commented on this but, just...aaaaargh...

Where is he even coming from with this? What of any of this even resembles what happens in the game? How does he reduce the story to this, after complaining about Sonic not showing any deeper emotions and being too good at everything?

It's not like there isn't enough to talk about regarding the game's story's weak points, so why this?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I take it that he doesn't know or understand that Ken and Pontac didn't fully write Color's plot, and believe that it was entirely their idea.

[FriendBot]

I take it that he doesn't know or understand that Ken and Pontac didn't fully write Color's plot, and believe that it was entirely their idea.

 

But didn't he interviewed Pontac himself and that's how we know that they didn't fully write the stories for Colors and Generations?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But didn't he interviewed Pontac himself and that's how we know that they didn't fully write the stories for Colors and Generations?

I don't really know, I haven't seen that interview in particular...at least I don't think so, unless the interview that revealed that detail was Roger.

 

In which case, I don't know what to say in their defense then.

[Kuzu]

That's referring to Lost World btw.

 

 

 

Yea, that's a serious generalization he's doing there. None of that has shit to do with what went down in Colors.

[FriendBot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZTPS1cxZ5A

 

Well here's the interview, so yeah.

[WhoWhatMan]

This whole series of videos is a bad idea like how much can you talk about a story in a platformer?
 

Sonic's story is suppose to be simple (in my opinion) and kinda Saturday morningish which is why I can't take 06 or Shadow story seriously because they try way too hard to make it all "srs" and "dark" even though the game includes a bunch of cartoon animals trying to stop a egg shaped man.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This whole series of videos is a bad idea like how much can you talk about a story in a platformer?

 

Sonic's story is suppose to be simple (in my opinion) and kinda Saturday morningish which is why I can't take 06 or Shadow story seriously because they try way too hard to make it all "srs" and "dark" even though the game includes a bunch of cartoon animals trying to stop a egg shaped man.

Since when has most of this forum actually taken stories like Sonic 06 or Shadow seriously? Really, guys...

 

But I find everything else you said to be a generalization of cartoons. You have storys like Toy Story 3 that have dark and intense moments for a bunch of living toys, Ratchet and Clank which is satuday morning-esque even as it tells a story about the main character being the last of his kind or fighting for his life in gladiator battles, and even Mario goes much further in games like the Paper Mario series.

 

I mean really, how black and white are people over all this?

[TearForFear]

The third one means that Sonic jokes around with Tails' worries. Like how Tails said how much Sonic trusts Eggman more than him bites and then Sonic said that they have no choice and it's his fault that it happened and he said how much that bites.

 

Wait wait wait.

 

^THIS, in Roger Van Der Weide's mind, is JOKING?

[Rusty Spy]

This whole series of videos is a bad idea like how much can you talk about a story in a platformer?

The same way people can talk about story in a My Little Pony cartoon.

[WhoWhatMan]

Since when has most of this forum actually taken stories like Sonic 06 or Shadow seriously? Really, guys...

 

But I find everything else you said to be a generalization of cartoons. You have storys like Toy Story 3 that have dark and intense moments for a bunch of living toys, Ratchet and Clank which is satuday morning-esque even as it tells a story about the main character being the last of his kind or fighting for his life in gladiator battles, and even Mario goes much further in games like the Paper Mario series.

 

I mean really, how black and white are people?

 

EDIT: ABORT THREAD

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You totally missed the whole point of my post.

What kind of point are you making saying things like  "how much can you talk about a story in a platformer?" or "Sonic's story is suppose to be simple (in my opinion) and kinda Saturday morningish" and "the game includes a bunch of cartoon animals trying to stop a egg shaped man" then?

 

Hardly anyone here likes what Sonic 06 and ShTH did, but the way you phrased everything else sounds suspect.

[WhoWhatMan]

What kind of point are you making saying things like  "how much can you talk about a story in a platformer?" or "Sonic's story is suppose to be simple (in my opinion) and kinda Saturday morningish" and "the game includes a bunch of cartoon animals trying to stop a egg shaped man" then?

 

Hardly anyone here likes what Sonic 06 and ShTH did, but the way you phrased everything else sounds suspect.

 

Never mind, I hate being in debates.

 

 and Jesus, I wasn't talking about EVERYONE.

[Lady Soniko]

Never mind, I hate being in debates.

 

Don't say shit that provokes them then, lol.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Wow, if you guys think Roger is overly opinionated and in your face, then you don't wanna see guys like Nikonaquamagna2.

For me, the reason I'm able to tolerate Nick more is that he's more respectful of his audience and even re-asses himself at times.

 

Roger on the other hand.....not so humble.

 

Nick's also much more lenient and doesn't run on "any opinion not in line with mine is the wrong mindset" engine that Roger has a habit for boarding.

[Cyrus]

 

 

 

I love how this is the exact opposite of how Sonic behaved in the majority of Lost World's story.

[Rusty Spy]

For me, the reason I'm able to tolerate Nick more is that he's more respectful of his audience and even re-asses himself at times.

 

Roger on the other hand.....not so humble.

 

Nick's also much more lenient and doesn't run on "any opinion not in line with mine is the wrong mindset" engine that Roger has a habit for boarding.

I'm actually curious about that.

 

I'll admit I don't read any of his comments or follow any of his facebooks or twitters, I've only ever watched his videos about these subjects, and I never got that impression from those.

[sonfan1984]

But didn't he interviewed Pontac himself and that's how we know that they didn't fully write the stories for Colors and Generations?

 

Ken Pontac posted a couple of comments and admitted that himself on one of the Sonic Stadium news articles. Btw, why did this Roger dude even interview Pontac in the first place if all he's going to do is verbally abuse him 

 and try to make the guy look as bad as possible? It's kinda funny that Pontac even said that he knew that fans are going to rage and overreact as soon as he revealed that he doesn't know much about the Sonic series. Lesson learn: Avoid interviews with certain Sonic fans and especially people like Roger. They're just going to use what they don't like about you against you.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'm actually curious about that.

 

I'll admit I don't read any of his comments or follow any of his facebooks or twitters, I've only ever watched his videos about these subjects, and I never got that impression from those.

Even in some of the videos he's admitted to regretting reviews such as his first Unleashed review, for several reasons including how he felt it came off as a bit condescending.

[RustyRick]

Okay, I will probably get into hot territory for daring to argue with a very popular post, but here goes:
 

"Sonic Chronicles has good writing" -

Granted, Sonic Chronicles' writing wasn't great by any means, like Sonic really acting like a jerk to everybody is really, REALLY not him, but I will agree with the duo on that they attempted to give more in-depth character interaction between Sonic and his friends, even those he never actually directly conversed with before at all or barely like Big and Omega which I found a neat plus point.

The biggest positives I can say about Chronicles' writing is that the game does attempt to have a big payoff with the whole Sonic/Amy thing throughout the game that if you keep trying to have Sonic react positively towards Amy, you can actually have him confess his feelings for her to some degree. (I believe that you actually do like Sonic/Amy as the only real supported couple in the Sonic series if I recall right, Verte?)  It's really just fanservice for those into it, but this is the only media I know of so far aside from Sonic X's depiction of the whole Sonic/Amy thing that actually tries to build up further beyond just the rocky love/hate status quo the main game series handles it.

And I really liked Big's depiction in this game as well, in that he's geniuely happy to see Amy and joins because she asks him to, rather than him being single-mindedly focussed on finding Froggy at all costs and shouting FROGGY! every chance he gets. The only time he does bring up Froggy, it's in a optional side mission, and it's really funny to see Sonic trying to communicate with Big on the same wavelength, and if you have Big in your party when those mind-control aliens briefly take control of the minds of Sonic's allies, you'll notice that Big isn't affected at all, because he's really that simple-minded to be controlled. I really liked that more goofy well-meaning doofus side of Big way more than the apparent mentally handicapped frog-obsessed moron-depiction Big seemed to have in most games save for Heroes in where he doesn't take crap from either the Chaotix or Metal Sonic.

 

 

"Sonic lectures the Knights of the Round Table within five minutes of entering the Storybook world" - Never happened. And when he does pull up the Knights, it's to quite rightly get them to see their priorities.

 

Are you reffering to the bit that starts at 10:25? I will agree with you that this all didn't happen within 5 minutes of Sonic entering the Storybook world of King Arthur, but I believe Luke's quote was 'waves faintly with his sword for 5 minutes, and immediately gives you lectures about how you can be a much better knight.'. I assume that Luke just hastily played through the game and seemed to imply that Sonic just practiced for about 5 minutes with Calibur, then goes off to lecture the knights. While he is inaccurate in that statement, I will point out that you are right in that there's alot of buildup with Sonic having to master Calibur whilst enduring his harsh personality as well, having to visit the Lady of the Lake to learn more about the situation, and on his quest he encounters the knights individually, combats them and teaches them valuable lessons about life an chivalry, the biggest touching moment being when Sonic prevented Sir Gawain (I believe that was the knight name for the Knuckles look-a-like in that realm? I forgot) from committing suicide out of failure from carrying out his mission.  Luke may be inaccurate, but not fully in my eyes, and please correctify me if I'm pointing to the wrong time-mark in the video.

 

 

"Tails wasn't useful at all in Colours" - Bullshit. If Tails hadn't selflessly took the bullet for Sonic, the story would've, in all likelihood, have taken a disastrously different turn

 

I will agree with you that Tails served a great role in that little scene to show how much he cares for Sonic, but I want to look at it from a different perspective. Knowing that Eggman's hypnotize beam only lasted about 10 to 15 seconds, he couldn't have manipulated Sonic for any major evil heinous deeds besides just possibly injuring Tails before Sonic would regain his senses, so that incredibly disastrous turn of events seems very unlikely to me, if not counting in Sonic possibly knocking Tails out or toying with him, given the nature of the plot, though it would have made Sonic more self-conscious about how ironically Eggman could use him as a weapon or slave if he isn't more careful, so that actually would have made the plot a little bit better if you ask me. For the rest I will agree with them that Tails practically just served as mostly either comic relief or tech-savvy plot exposition about the situation when he isn't being best buddies with Sonic. )

 

 

"Stories in Sonic games. Universally hated" - You clearly haven't taken into account my opinion and the opinion of many, MANY other fans.

I have watched the video in full detail at the first 7 minutes where they summarized the general complaints most fans have about the series before they started to dive more in-depth about the story elements in the games and their own criticisms of it, and unless I miss a tiny bit of detail, I see no such outright statement where they actually say ''Stories in Sonic games. Universally hated''. At best there's 'This is the reason why Sonic's friends are so universally hated' at 13:35. At most I just remember them classifying the Sonic plotlines in different era's and saying stuff like how Generations, Colors and Unleashed is classified as 'Adventures of Sonic the talking squirrel', but never saying they all suck. If I am wrong and they do say it, would you mind giving me a time mark as to where they explicitly say it?

 

 

"The sequence of of first cutscene in Colours is "bad" simply because it's Inside the park > Inside the elevator > Inside the park" - Oh? So just because a cutscene has a tiny flashback and doesn't do things in a strictly chronological way it's automatically bad?....No. This so reeks of scraping the bottom of the barrel to snipe at Colours that I almost can't believe it was brought up.

. This being another criticism aimed at Luke. Luke seems to be a very go-by-the-book' kind of guy if I have to look at it that way. He's just not used to different pacing of storytelling, so please don't hold it against him.

 

 

"Secret Rings is entirely about finding Rings, finding Rings, Finding Rings" - Hmm, I must have imagined the parts about Erazor establishing complete control over the situation and of Sonic, the Ifrit burning the world up and the race to stop it, Shahra's emotional struggle, her throwing a wrench into Erazor's plan, the bid to find Solomon's bones, the plot thread concerning Sonic's curse and mortality etc

 

I guess the point that they were trying to make is that the general goal is to find the World Rings as part of both Erazor's big scheme and the only thing that will prevent Sonic from dying if he can collect them all in time. I just assume that they in their hurry ignored the finer little plot points and interactions Sonic had with Sinbad, King Solomon, Ali Baba, the more sympathetic bonding with Shahra, etc.  but I will agree that they should have paid more attention when the big payoff to it all came in full effect with Shahra's sacrifice, Erazor Djinn being really just a soulless scheming monster who cares not about who he kills or curses, as long as he wins, all that.

 

 

"Development in more recent games is undermined by the fact that the characters Sonic interacts with are not the 'main' cast, regardless over said development being great" - Elitism of 'classic'/'established' characters.

Ah, the bit at 9:00. I will say that while Sonic has had great bonding with the rest of the main supporting characters throughout Adventure 1 and 2, and to a minor degree in Heroes. (Sonic being concerned for Amy and Tails' well-being by rushing back to them before the island explodes, trusting Tails and Amy to go on without him before Eggman blasts him off into space, and requesting Knuckles to go help Amy and Tails, which by the way he never actually follows up on, but that's besides the point. The storybook characters and Chip from Unleashed were fresh one-time characters with purpose, and they learned alot from hanging out with Sonic. But! I will agree with Roger in that in more recent games, Tails doesn't have a really big impact on the story as a whole aside from occasional gadget tinkering and the status update mission control guy, and Knuckles and Amy are lucky if they even get any screentime at all lately. I'd wish for Knuckles and Amy to distract Eggman at the very least.



Right, that covers it all for now, I best tuck in for the night before I go nuts. Seriously, it's 3"39 AM at the time I posted this!