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"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

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15 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

A ) Because of Rise of Lyric's quality, many Sonic fans feel uncomfortable taking inspiration from more Sonic games with debatable technical quality.

B ) There's a severe communication problem where Adventure fans almost exclusively think about the emotions, energy and style of the game while opponents almost exclusively on the technical execution of the games.

C ) The Adventure 3 Facebook also seems to be a heaven for fans who just Hate the style of modern Sonic in general. So those who Just want to celebrate the Adventuer games or salvage a few good aspects of these games tend to be overtaken by those entirely motivated by hating the entirity of modern Sonic.

D ) Because Adventure fans seem much more driven by style and emotion, their way of talking causes a lot of offense by people more litteral minded (True Sonic Spirit!. Flashy name from a marketing perspective, but does nothing but make your audience hate you even before getting a single word in in any discussion)

E ) And now Adventure 3 fans are often the butt of jokes, that makes a lot of them more paranoid and angry. So with Webber's memes primarely Adventure game focused as it seems, a lot see every Meme as a personal insult, so... Many act like a frightened cat in a corner, one wrong Meme and it's SCRATCH.

Well I don't think a good majority are hating on Adventure 3 fans because they want to revive what 06 did but make it better. I'm sure a good amount would've been fine if they got a game that had the best parts of the Adventure games but I guess the lack of confidence in SEGA is yet again at rock bottom, so I guess the first point is valid enough. Well in my personal opinion, the energy/style and execution are both required a pretty damn good Sonic game so I don't see any reason why people should have to choose one over the other, both are equally important in a Sonic game but it does happen. The third point I can't agree any less, some of the more infamous members in that Facebook group are just obscenely toxic and just aren't very fun to talk to. And that latter sentence is kind of true since I did encounter one guy in the group who is pretty chill, he was respected other's opinions and was just a pleasant guy to talk to but seeing that I don't see him commenting in the group anymore leads me to believe he's probably saw how downhill the group went. Yeah, the name "True Sonic Spirit" is something I found more cringey than any dumb joke Pontaff to be honest, I personally believe Sonic can work as a action/adventure hero or as a cartoon character, either way doesn't feel any less valid of a direction to me honestly. Yet again, another point that I kinda got after interacting with the group (and I feel like I spent a good amount of time doing so, so I don't feel like I'm just saying things because everyone else says so, it's based off of my experiences). Behind all the toxicity and conspiracy talk about how Webber actually hates Adventure fans and how BBFA3 is somehow made to mock Adventure fans, even though at the title screen there's a text saying this is a joke game made by fans, please don't take this seriously but you you probably will anyway). It always felt like they were making mountains over molehills when it comes to this stuff and act like Webber doesn't know what they want when it's just not the case.

 

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On 4/1/2016 at 9:42 AM, H&/MA/MC said:

So Roger have released two vids today. Let's see what they're up to?

Damn! He's been working hard for this.

HAHAHAHA.

AMY MENTIONED A PUPPY ORPHANAGE, AND THEN A PUPPY ORPHANAGE SHOWED UP.

HE SAID STICKS WOULD BITE HIS HEAD, AND THEN SHE DID.

SONIC SAID THERE BETTER NOT BE A TORNADO BUT WOAAAAH THERE WAS.

I GET IT.

I GET JOKES. 

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7 hours ago, Singapore Sling said:

HAHAHAHA.

AMY MENTIONED A PUPPY ORPHANAGE, AND THEN A PUPPY ORPHANAGE SHOWED UP.

HE SAID STICKS WOULD BITE HIS HEAD, AND THEN SHE DID.

SONIC SAID THERE BETTER NOT BE A TORNADO BUT WOAAAAH THERE WAS.

I GET IT.

I GET JOKES. 

 

Well done.

The real jokes are the concepts, observing personalities clash, situations escalate, and how characters deal with problems out of their comfort zone/ skill level with creativity, just for the world to make things worse for them.

Set up and pay off. Introduce a concept, then keep throwing twists on them or escalating it.
Which indeed means I have to introduce it at some point.
Quick and fast to keep the pacing up, and obvious jokes are very efficient in doing that.
Many jokes in this cartoon aren't stand alone gags but once that propell characters forward or introduce concepts they have to deal with.Multiple layers at the same time. The jokes are constructed like a clockwork, individually they are weak but observing the way they interact and from a whole is what brings the more intellectual satisfaction that I was hoping to achieve.
Character's bravado turning against them, as with the tornado and Sticks, is all about celebrating the personalities or harshness of the world, that all eventually pile up together.



The puppy thing was kinda lame tough. Oh well.

 

8 hours ago, sansy said:

Behind all the toxicity and conspiracy talk about how Webber actually hates Adventure fans and how BBFA3 is somehow made to mock Adventure fans, even though at the title screen there's a text saying this is a joke game made by fans, please don't take this seriously but you you probably will anyway).

 


Very true.
But jokes come from somewhere. Jokes aren't magic in a void, you get a emotional reaction because the joke triggers something in your head.
Not to mention the "I'm just having fun" is not a strong defense against people who are upset. It trivializes them.
I remember bullies at my school always using the "hey, I'm just having fun" argument.
Oh well, sorry for being upset that i'm shoved into a toilet, please continue having fun.

That's a hyperbolic comedic exageration of the situation, not saying that the Twitter is remotely the quilevant of a school bully (Altough obviously the more paranoid among us do think so, so the comparison has merit from that perspective.
Just demonstrating the effect the "I'm having fun"argument can come across to the person who feels wrong'ed.
Intentional or not, jokes have an effect.
But yeah, a lot of SA3 peeps are a way too paranoid.


As for me, I am kinda sad about the Meme overload. I wish Webber took it easier on Big the Cat, then his April fools gag could have had a much stronger impact.
Now I'm just burned out. Too bad, they put a lot of effort into that game.
I would have found that game very amusing and clever if I wasn't entirely burnt out by all the fake-outs and Big jokes already.

I recognise a very smart constructed prank in their entire build up to the April fools joke, but the execution is off. Poor Webber, his excitement for his jokes are endearing and he means well but don't do the quality of his gags any good.

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On 4/1/2016 at 0:42 PM, H&/MA/MC said:

 

 

A lot of this episode has quite a few jokes that fall sorta flat, whiiich kinda sorta nullifies the fast-pace humor overall, but man, the amount of stuff that happens in this episode compared to what happens in an actual Boom episode is crazy, especially since it all happens in the same 11 minutes as well. If it had the same consistency as, say, Gumball did with it's jokes, it'd probably be actually really amazing! Never really thought about a direction like this for the show, tbh.

As for the episode itself, lots of the ideas and premises are pretty great, and the core concept of the episode really sticks out as a great premise for a comedy show. Its just the execution is lackluster, obviously partly due to the animation, but mostly the writing overall, like with the tornado setup. Ah well, they're all good ideas, anyways, just held back by the execution, which is more than you can say for Boom's jokes which are already at the best they can be.


(also if Sticks was ever to be a running joke, I hope it'd be on the more Phineas and Ferb side of things where it constantly made self-aware yet smart jabs at itself, or raise false expectations to segway into another joke. Leaving it as just a consistent story-telling device seems too mundane to be a joke, tbh.)

On 4/3/2016 at 6:32 AM, Roger_van_der_weide said:

If I was really writing a episode of the show, the bad language would be gone, Amy's joke would be less Naked Gunn-ish and I'd probably not get away with Eggman pushing guns in Sonic's face. And it'd be a lot less hectic.

I don't see why it shouldn't/couldn't be this hectic. A lot of CN's shows are slow-paced and more natural, sure, but one of their biggest shows their currently airing is The Amazing World of Gumball, and that show is off-the-walls insane with it's pacing at times. (btw if you're interested in comedies and premises such as this, you should totally check it out if you haven't already; it's a riot) I'd think Sonic would be perfect for this kind of show, considering how he prefers to keep his life good and fast anyways.

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6 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Very true.
But jokes come from somewhere. Jokes aren't magic in a void, you get a emotional reaction because the joke triggers something in your head.
Not to mention the "I'm just having fun" is not a strong defense against people who are upset. It trivializes them.
I remember bullies at my school always using the "hey, I'm just having fun" argument.
Oh well, sorry for being upset that i'm shoved into a toilet, please continue having fun.

That's a hyperbolic comedic exageration of the situation, not saying that the Twitter is remotely the quilevant of a school bully (Altough obviously the more paranoid among us do think so, so the comparison has merit from that perspective.
Just demonstrating the effect the "I'm having fun"argument can come across to the person who feels wrong'ed.
Intentional or not, jokes have an effect.
But yeah, a lot of SA3 peeps are a way too paranoid.


As for me, I am kinda sad about the Meme overload. I wish Webber took it easier on Big the Cat, then his April fools gag could have had a much stronger impact.
Now I'm just burned out. Too bad, they put a lot of effort into that game.
I would have found that game very amusing and clever if I wasn't entirely burnt out by all the fake-outs and Big jokes already.

I recognise a very smart constructed prank in their entire build up to the April fools joke, but the execution is off. Poor Webber, his excitement for his jokes are endearing and he means well but don't do the quality of his gags any good.

I'm aware that the jokes that Webber and Gene do does come from somewhere, I mean I would like to think I have some sort of standard when it comes to comedy (but I really doubt it). I do get that "I'm just having fun" is a pretty weak excuse, I mean the Adventure 3 Facebook group justified it when they mocked Webber so yeah. But when you mentioned on your Fun Dissected, how when TSSZ made a poll on whether people liked what Webber does and he tweeted how "Can't wait to hear how people don't like it when I have fun" or something like that, but I never felt that he was being very serious about it. I mean, when some of the members of the Adventure 3 FB group planned to "take down" Webber, Webber himself said "Yeah! Let's take that guy down!". 

I also understand that Webber/Gene may have overdid it with the jokes but I recall Webber saying in the SXSW panels that when he doesn't have any news to share, he atleast tries to post something funny to keep the fans amused for a bit. And he did his fair share of non-memey tweets whether it was for showing off the Mega Drive comic, any big news like Lost World coming to Steam, Dash 2: Sonic Boom being released and as such.

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What a great opportunity to just lean back and soak in the present of what is considered funny then. This vid explains the tone of many critics out there.

This is for both Soni and Roger. We all have to soak this in. 

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18 hours ago, sansy said:

 I mean, when some of the members of the Adventure 3 FB group planned to "take down" Webber, Webber himself said "Yeah! Let's take that guy down!". 

Yeah, I hate people that try to bring Webber down, that's not cool.
And great response from Webber, that's wonderful. Join the angy mob of yourself.
Webber has some great moments.
 

 

15 hours ago, H&/MA/MC said:

What a great opportunity to just lean back and soak in the present of what is considered funny then. This vid explains the tone of many critics out there.

This is for both Soni and Roger. We all have to soak this in. 

Great video. Fully agree, you can make any joke you want, as long as you accept and understand the anger you receive in response.
It's important as a comedian not to be concerned that people are angry and whether you're "allowed" to have fun and joke.
We need to be concerned how we can upgrade and improve our comedic skills to outgrow the critique.

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So It kind of came up in the "Women don't hate Elise?" topic that a mod ushered over here.

As a woman I rather dislike Elise as I consider her to be a rather poor damsel in distress character and not something relatable or admirable.

 

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My biggest problem with "rogerfied" Boom is the fact that it isn't a true "what if" scenario, but a parody. Not saying it's bad, only the fact that it would finnaly clarify for me what are his biggest problems with cartoon. Well, just another missed oppoportunity. But as a parody it was good. Not as good as Sonic Adventue in 5 milion minutes, but still very amusing. 

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27 minutes ago, Kfarc said:

My biggest problem with "rogerfied" Boom is the fact that it isn't a true "what if" scenario, but a parody. Not saying it's bad, only the fact that it would finnaly clarify for me what are his biggest problems with cartoon. Well, just another missed oppoportunity. But as a parody it was good. Not as good as Sonic Adventue in 5 milion minutes, but still very amusing. 

It didn't come off as a parody to me. Parodies are more to point out flaws and make fun observations that the source material has, usually in a lighthearted manner. This was an honest attempt of "if I was in charge of Sonic Boom, how would I do it?".

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1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

This was an honest attempt of "if I was in charge of Sonic Boom, how would I do it?".

Yeah, even if I had my own personal disagreements, it was still Roger's take on the episode. Some ideas and character portrayals do work while some are not SUPER...HOT.... but I never felt like he was mocking the show itself. He said so himself, that the sow was very close to his comedic style/preference (idk) but the execution was pretty unsatisfactory to him.

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After watching this video of Brows Held High, I found an interesting part of it that can explain the approach Roger seems to have in his videos. 

So, what part am I speaking of here? How about that part that speaks of the "New Historicists"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historicism

Even though we're almost ten years into a crisis, New Historicism still prevails. 

What we see in these in these Dissected videos is a liberatingly emasculated approach to video game criticism, no longer restricted to just the technical elements. 

Does that seem like a reasonable dissection of the dissections, Roger?

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So I have a question. It's going to sound semi mocking but... I honestly don't have any idea how else to word it given how the source of the original statement sounds like they're on the verge of a mental breakdown. 

According to the Admin of the Sonic Adventure 3 Facebook page. You and they have been talking for the whole week. Yes the entire week you have been talking about a Sonic face cream/mud pack. 

According to them. You are both baffled by the news. 

Now assuming they've not exaggerated the week thing...

Can I just ask... why? 

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Well I guess one thing is that why the hell would there be a Sonic facial cream, beauty products have nothing to do with the series at all. But then again, Sonic is a brand and SEGA are pulling out all the stops to expand the Sonic merchandise line for the 25th Anniversary. I mean we live in a world there's fucking official Pokemon licensed lingerie, so to be practical something like this shouldn't really be that baffling. SEGA is a business company, not a charity organization.

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2 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

According to the Admin of the Sonic Adventure 3 Facebook page. You and they have been talking for the whole week. Yes the entire week you have been talking about a Sonic face cream/mud pack. 

According to them. You are both baffled by the news. 

Now assuming they've not exaggerated the week thing...

Can I just ask... why? 

Ahh, Alger loves being theatrical. He's more about conveying emotions then telling the truth.
That's really the simplest way to explain it.

So the grand tale of us debating for an entire week?
Beats me why he wrote that, I did not travel in time or had advance knowledge, as you must have assumed.
He's from Quebec. Usually when he talks weird, I assume it's a French phrase or logic that doesn't quite translate to English.
Perhaps a bit racist/ assumptive of me, but it helps me stay sane during the weirder moments.

As for me being baffled, correct. That's my brain needing time to digest this curveball of Sega's marketing.
You have to admit, it's a bit unexpected.
My initial bafflement is the only aspect of this article that I "participated" with. It didn't last a full week, tough.

As for the rest of that article, as stated before, it's written from an emotional perspective rather then a journalistic one.
it essentially translates to

"I like the idea of Sega reaching a non nerdy demographic, but I fear they do it too soon. (As in, before fixing the reputation of the games)"

This involves a few non-proven assumptions, such as that only non-nerdy people use facial creams.
I know you hate that kind of thinking, but then again, that's why you're the Journalist/ Detective and he's more a rallier of the people.
Diffrent minds, and all that.

I don't support that statement myself, as I already noticed Sonic Stadium folks disproving the assumed demographic for beauty products in the comments beneath your article. I do have sympathy for people gaining confusion that we're getting news about Sonic Mud before any big Videogame news, tough.
But what can you do?

Does that suffice as an explanation for this mystery?

On 24-4-2016 at 7:20 AM, J&/MA/MC said:

 

So, what part am I speaking of here? How about that part that speaks of the "New Historicists"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historicism

Does that seem like a reasonable dissection of the dissections, Roger?

Oh, hey. Brows held high's still going? Must have missed Kyle left Channel Awesome.

New Historicism? Taking a piece of art out of it's Art context and back into a historical context.
Sure, that sounds like something I would do.
It's critized for pushing an Agenda? That's not my intent, but I suppose that's a valid critism you could accuse me off. I am more biased and pushing into a direction then I'm willing to admit sometimes. Definitly something I need to keep an eye out for.

"Elsewhere, Paglia has suggested that New Historicism is "a refuge for English majors without critical talent or broad learning in history or political science. [...] To practice it, you must apparently lack all historical sense."
Hmm, that sounds like a thing people who hate my video's would yell at me.
Uh, yeah, I don't know what to say. I'm not entirely history focused, but context is impotant to me.
So yeah, it's safe to say I hit a lot of the New Historicism markers, altough not by conscious design.
I should buy one of their books and see how it reads.

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Thing is, the Sonic beauty products aren't supposed to be some huge news about SEGA's marketing decisions. I'm sure most of people who aren't interested in this have already forgotten about Sonic Styles. It's just that there hasn't been anything interesting about Sonic lately, so something weird like the beauty products gets special attention from people who usually criticize SEGA and think of them negatively (not like there isn't a reason to do so).

This isn't SEGA trying to promote Sonic as a beauty product instead of a video game character, it's some company selling their product with famous character's face while promoting the said character. That's what all companies who own popular characters do.

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On 06/05/2016 at 2:39 AM, Roger_van_der_weide said:

As for me being baffled, correct. That's my brain needing time to digest this curveball of Sega's marketing.
You have to admit, it's a bit unexpected.

Hmmmm....

7852884964_018894621a_b.jpgsonic_bubble_bath.jpgmaxresdefault.jpgBathTopper.jpg  ToothpasteTube.jpg 

TailsClipper.jpg LoveLiveRinBath.jpg

The above are toe nail clippers.

ZS5eUgy.jpg

The above item is medical scrubs.

And this one which won't embed due to Facebook.

Not pictured are the many tooth brushes, the wet wipes, plasters. band aids and various other small medical items from Japan.

 

Oh and there's also this from around 5 years ago.

T2eC16VHJGoE9nuQfevtBQ7dFIpUz60_12.jpg

It's not that unexpected, it happened 5 years ago.

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11 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Hmmmm....

7852884964_018894621a_b.jpgsonic_bubble_bath.jpgmaxresdefault.jpgBathTopper.jpg  ToothpasteTube.jpg 

TailsClipper.jpg LoveLiveRinBath.jpg

The above are toe nail clippers.

ZS5eUgy.jpg

The above item is medical scrubs.

And this one which won't embed due to Facebook.

Not pictured are the many tooth brushes, the wet wipes, plasters. band aids and various other small medical items from Japan.

 

Oh and there's also this from around 5 years ago....

T2eC16VHJGoE9nuQfevtBQ7dFIpUz60_12.jpg

It's not that unexpected, it happened 5 years ago.

DAyuuuummmm...dat is some devotion SEGA has with milking Sonic for all he's worth..., Meh, I don't have money to waste-...

 

13 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

 LoveLiveRinBath.jpg

 

ANIMUUUUU GURLS...!?!? Need MONEY!

 

But in all seriousness, I'm pretty even with what Mauricius said, it's some company selling their product with Sonic's face on it....but then I see above...that's a lot of crap....not counting animuu waifu... there is so much of that, I wouldn't be surprised if SEGA trying to promote Sonic as a POSTER BOY product of the 90s instead of a video game character .

 

Does Mario have stuff like this going on, I'm curious.....?

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2 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

 

7852884964_018894621a_b.jpgsonic_bubble_bath.jpgmaxresdefault.jpgBathTopper.jpg  ToothpasteTube.jpg 

TailsClipper.jpg LoveLiveRinBath.jpg

 

ZS5eUgy.jpg

 

T2eC16VHJGoE9nuQfevtBQ7dFIpUz60_12.jpg

 

Fair enough, altough I can still argue that these items are more directer marketed to children while the new stuff looks more.....Classy? Mature? Main stream? Not sure what word to use, but y'know, a little less big giant plastic Sonic smiling at you and a little more real bottle I can imagine laying in my neighbour's bathroom cabinet.

Except the medical scrubs and the French Sonic 2011...Something...in the last picture, you got me there.

Afraid there isn't much Sonic merchendise here in the Netherlands, I don't think I saw more then some Sonic X stickers once.
So you'll have to forgive me if I occasionaly suffer temporarely from those pesky human emotions when confronted with a new perspective or new information I wasn't aware of.

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On 2016-05-05 at 1:01 AM, Detective Hogfather said:

So I have a question. It's going to sound semi mocking but... I honestly don't have any idea how else to word it given how the source of the original statement sounds like they're on the verge of a mental breakdown. 

According to the Admin of the Sonic Adventure 3 Facebook page. You and they have been talking for the whole week. Yes the entire week you have been talking about a Sonic face cream/mud pack. 

According to them. You are both baffled by the news. 

Now assuming they've not exaggerated the week thing...

Can I just ask... why? 

Honestly, most things you say when you dont understand ( or wont try to understand ) the opposing argument comes of as mocking and trying to sound superior. then again that might just be your upbringing. Its something I mostly ignore when you are formulating a sentence. But i do found it amusing that you are aware of this but decides to justify the opposite view as a "verge of a mental breakdown." and proceeds with your "semi-mocking sentence". Ofcourse, this sentence of mine is irrelevant to your actual question and can be seen as me using ad hominem to undermine your entire point. But since your very first sentence uses ad hominem it must be something you accept as an actual answer. If somebody have a problem with my sentence despite the following reasons, I will delete this sentence. I am very well aware that my sentence isnt okay by any means.

As for what they are "baffled about" is more the actual state of the franchise to keep selling sonic merchandise like he was at his A game. Not that they are selling it.

And as Roger said, the sa3 facebook page is more about emotional response than pure cold facts

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About the beauty products, it's not about Sega selling merchandise, of course they've always done that and it's obvious. It's them doing this and not handling the franchise right. It's kinda like how people have pointed out that Nintendo's Amiibos are selling more then their games. Not saying that myself, but what I've seen others talk about.

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