"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It

[Dizcrybe]

I said before that I dislike these videos because of his staunch belief that every Sonic game's story must be held to the standard of Sonic Adventure 2, and anything that doesn't match it is pointless kiddie crap. Oh yeah, and his inability to go 5 seconds without mentioning how terrible Pontac and Graff's writing is. Gag.

[Chariot]

I tried to watch these videos, but I can't. Everything about them just irritate me. How fast Roger talks, the fact that they're going so in depth over something that really doesn't have any depth to it (meaning that they're repeating the same thing over and over again), the art style is very irritating and distracting, Rogers voice is ear gratting, and what exactly are they talking about again. They just go in all these different directions and it just loses me. The way these videos are structured are so chaotic, and all over the place, that I just can't get into them. Like seriously can someone give me in brief of what the hell he and his guests are talking about.

[FriendBot]

Wait wait wait.

 

^THIS, in Roger Van Der Weide's mind, is JOKING?

 

Then again Roger tries taking potshots at Pontac at every chance he gets so yeah. It is kind of stupid of him to assume such.

 

And hooray this topic is "Hot" despite most of the posts is talking about how biased Roger is.

 

->

[Wittymations]

I've actually watched the entire series, mainly because I like to see how other people believe these stories should be handled. Not everything I agree with, of course. But there are fair-bits.

Mainly how Colors/Gens really lacked any kind of action, and how he states that Sonic and Eggman need to be handled more equally.

He does say a lot of what I believe. Not exactly at pot-shotting Pontac, but more how he feels things need to happen.

[RustyRick]

And hooray this topic is "Hot" despite most of the posts is talking about how biased Roger is.

 

->

I give credit to how some do acknowledge some of the finer points both Roger and Luke raise, but yeah overall I get the same vibe from this topic being mostly 'Lol Roger's opinions suck, what a elitist!' comments.

Keep in mind people, that Roger and Luke aren't as well-versed about every little detail in the game universe's mythos and plotlines. They majorly play the games to have fun and from my viewpoint they just see Sonic as a great source for comedy which sadly comes at the expense of the series' well-meant attempts at a deep and engaging storyline, which for the most part it does actually deliver in that regard.

Nonetheless, I will credit them for attempting to discuss the more lackluster elements of the series in a constructive manner, even if it comes off as really biased for the most part to alot of you people. I agree completely with a few of Roger's complaints like how Tails, Amy and Knuckles rarely have much impact on the story anymore as a whole, and aside from Tails' tinkering with machines and occasional touching sacrifical moments for Sonic's sake, the trio really don't have much going for them anymore aside from just cheering on Sonic. Heck, Knuckles even just acts all macho and overly cocky meant in a manner that he will be ignored and brushed off to the sideways for laughs.

And they also bring up a good point with that about the majority of the time spent on Colors' dialogue, Sonic and Tails are commenting on how Eggman has something evil planned, and how they're going to find out about it, then do something about it, and save those poor Wisps, etc.

I refer to a old saying for this matter that sums up their complaint accurately: 'Show, don't tell.'

The other times it's Eggman either boasting about how he's going to win, defeat Sonic, among those lines, or Sonic trying to act all witty and cracking jokes at the expense of Eggman and his robots, and the only real nice bits are when Tails actually pushes Sonic out of the way to let the hypno beam ray hit him, and Sonic pushing Tails inside the transport system in order to secure his safety so he can focus on beating Eggman.

Overall, Roger and Luke are known to take potshots at everything, especially the former because all of his animations are meant to convey a sense of comedy even in the animation style looking like a cheap rushed production, but that's the charm with Roger's animations, it's content is never meant to be taken at face value, and it's mostly done for laughs and entertainment, even their criticisms in these dissected video's wasn't tackled 100% dead seriously. even if you don't agree with some of their rather elitist comments, just take it with a grain of salt, because they just either don't know any better or just aren't as hardcore fans as most people on SSMB are to know every little detail about the series.

But that's just my 2 cents on the whole matter.

[Phos]

I've seen this series before but not watched the whole thing.  That bit about the scene where Amy breaks Sonic out of prison, I get the impression that Amy's comments about getting Sonic to marry her weren't meant to serious when they were first conceived.  That sort of things seems to permeate SA2, good intentions encountering gross limitations.  

 

Oh right I actually own Sonic Colors... I think?  I can't actually remember.  Unless I want to sell it it's not like it matters.  

 

"Sonic Chronicles has good writing" -

 

"Sonic lectures the Knights of the Round Table within five minutes of entering the Storybook world" - Never happened. And when he does pull up the Knights, it's to quite rightly get them to see their priorities.

 

"Tails wasn't useful at all in Colours" - Bullshit. If Tails hadn't selflessly took the bullet for Sonic, the story would've, in all likelihood, have taken a disastrously different turn

 

"Stories in Sonic games. Universally hated" - You clearly haven't taken into account my opinion and the opinion of many, MANY other fans.

 

"The sequence of of first cutscene in Colours is "bad" simply because it's Inside the park > Inside the elevator > Inside the park" - Oh? So just because a cutscene has a tiny flashback and doesn't do things in a strictly chronological way it's automatically bad?....No. This so reeks of scraping the bottom of the barrel to snipe at Colours that I almost can't believe it was brought up.

 

"Secret Rings is entirely about finding Rings, finding Rings, Finding Rings" - Hmm, I must have imagined the parts about Erazor establishing complete control over the situation and of Sonic, the Ifrit burning the world up and the race to stop it, Shahra's emotional struggle, her throwing a wrench into Erazor's plan, the bid to find Solomon's bones, the plot thread concerning Sonic's curse and mortality etc

 

"Development in more recent games is undermined by the fact that the characters Sonic interacts with are not the 'main' cast, regardless over said development being great" - Elitism of 'classic'/'established' characters.

 

The video not only features people who misrepresent aspects of the games and the opinions of the fandom to critique them but they're no more unbiased and misguided than the fans they chastise. The video makes some good points such as the translator jokes falling utterly flat but it explains most of it's points in extremely unsound ways.

I don't actually recall him highlighting chronicles as being any good but I haven't seen all of them.  

 

Them randomly being played by Sonic characters obfuscates this but Sonic is telling the knights of the round table how to be knights.  

 

Apparently it would have just worn off and Eggman forgets he has it.  

 

I don't think he considers the stories universally hated when he's making a long series of videos about them.  

 

It's ultimately a nitpick but it's still kinda absurd that they're cutting to a flashback of what just happened for the sake of a lame joke instead of just setting events in order.  

 

Secret Rings, I haven't even been too deep into and I don't care to bother with.  

 

I have seen a lot of it by now and I'm not seeing this specific criticism.  

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay, watching more of the video...it comes off more like, as pretensious as they may sound, they also seem to be making fun of themselves as they offer their criticism (maybe that's because I haven't fully immersed myself as much in the videos). What's more? They sound even more like me.

 

Okay, to be frank, I wouldn't be too pretentious about it, and I give credit where it's due even when I'm chewing something out. But I'm a bit blunt and insensitive at times, so when I hear them make their points they echo a lot of my thoughts. There should be balance when it comes to the cast, making Sonic do everything isn't exactly a good dynamic, and the characters are badly written, etc.

 

When I hear them make their points, they're doing so as critics and come off as actually pretty decent critics at that. And that's the thing, critic's shouldn't sugarcoat their thoughts (at least in my opinion) if they see something to point out that needs to be addressed. But where these guys differ is that they actually know the fandom, they know how split it is, and for all of those opinions they offer counterpoint that you won't actually see on game sites offering their kind of criticism. They're much more in-depth about it.

 

Now granted, they do have their own biases, we all do. Some stronger than others, but even then, I'm not seeing how they're any different from us as far as how they'd like to see Sonic become great. They point to SA2 as being the standard, and their reasons for claiming such is because it fits a lot of the parameters they've suggested that would improve things compared to how things are now. I echo similar sentiments - even though I find them lacking in a lot of areas, I do give games like Colors and Lost World credit where it is due. At the same time, with all our diverse opinions here, we have ideas on Sonic, and they have theirs, and so forth.

 

Again, maybe that's because I'm not really that sensitive a person myself, but their biases aside, I can't really say their attitude makes their points any less worth considering.

[Wittymations]

I think, overall, they do know a bit of where they're talking about, at least for the most part, but I suppose they can really sound pretentious to some. And when you sound pretentious, people don't want to hear what you have to say.

"It's not what you say, it's how you say it." My stepmother can be an example of that. She means well for things, but the way she says things (despite her meaning) makes her sound like a bitch.

[TearForFear]

And hooray this topic is "Hot" despite most of the posts is talking about how biased Roger is.

 

->

 

Don't feel like that, please.

 

As for me.

 

Despite being hard to listen to him because of his angry attitude (or at least the angry animation of him, combined with his voice) I actually respect some of his opinions. I think Sonic Dissected episode 9 is by far the best of his series, because by dissecting the humor in Sonic Colors he also gives a brilliant lesson about what to do and what to not do for those who one day want to write a comedy, or in general make a joke.

 

I also agree with him that the scene where Sonic and Tails' laugh at each other for something stupid as Baldy McNosehair -among other scenes- is utterly pointless for the plot and the viewers (even though it's a good representation of how two close friends act -you know, laughing for jokes only the two of them understand and find funny)

 

But Roger's recent "Pontac here, Pontac there, LOL McNosehair, LOL sandwich" behaviour, at least for me, makes it really really hard to take his opinions as legitimate anymore

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Then again Roger tries taking potshots at Pontac at every chance he gets so yeah. It is kind of stupid of him to assume such.

 

And hooray this topic is "Hot" despite most of the posts is talking about how biased Roger is.

 

->

It was unconforable at first. I disagree with Rodger but  I think his Sonic Adventure 2 love is not wirth getting angry with. I think that game needs to go to the Shadow Relem and same with Sonic Chroicles but not like Adventure 2, Chronicles DID have good parts.

[Zaysho]

I suffered through about half the video and that's all I can take. These two make my ears bleed. And after shuffling through the thread a bit, I see why most people are taking issue with these jokers. A lot of what they say is based on cherry picking moments to prove their point and claiming Sonic is "Super Jesus Chuck Norris" or whatever they were saying. Honestly, one thing Sonic Team did well following Sonic '06, was writing the Sonic character competently (at the expense of the rest of the cast), and he's not particularly overpowered most of the time (maybe a little too competent, but that comes with the territory of being the only character allowed to do squat). The real downside is that Sonic Team has given into the critics who have had us all on the Solo Sonic tip for the last few years and Sonic Team really doesn't seem to know what to take from reviews anymore. Reviewers bemoan that the characters are "shitty" they throw them away instead of writing them better. They complain about the bad stories. Sonic Team gives up on storytelling instead of learning what makes a good story. Voice acting's next on the chopping block, I'm sure.
 

And then Roger focuses on Black Knight for a moment about how poor the story introduces King Arthur. Granted I can see that Black Knight's intro was rather poor since Sonic was able to defeat the minions with ease so if Merlina didn't interfere, there's a good chance that Sonic would've beaten him right there but that's just me and Arthur was also a bit foolish by not interfering with the escape of Sonic and Merlina.

This is where I got most profoundly annoyed with these two; they completely ignored the plot and progression of Black Knight just so they could have their point (which isn't even true as Vertekins pointed out). First of all, Sonic was not an immediate master knight. He struggled and had to learn on that journey. Secondly, even if he went after King Arthur in that opening cutscene, he'd have gotten his ass kicked seven ways to Sunday. Arthur's scabbard made him invincible and could only be neutralized by the other knights' swords combined with Caliburn (never mind the whole thing was a ruse by Merlina). Swords, I might add, Sonic had to earn in duels against the knights. Any time Sonic lectured the other knights it was because their views were completely skewed due to a misplaced loyalty in the "Arthur" they served, and forgetting their true purpose as knights (these fuckers gave up way too easily in the face of adversity, something their Sonic world counterparts would never do).

 

Even their comments about the mind-control beam in Colors feels shaky since I feel like they described its build-up well enough, but ignored that the thing backfired because one of Eggman's mechs' pieces damaged part of the cannon (which landed there inadvertently because of Sonic). There are a lot of things wrong with Colors' writing, don't get me wrong, but saying that it was a one and done that was shoved to the side for another joke is a little too much of an exaggeration. The threat was there, and Sonic worked to stop it and free the Wisps, which were being converted to produce energy for the cannon (which is what gave birth to the Nega Wisps that gave Sonic his Frenzy ability). I dunno, I'm seeing a clear cause and effect, even if the Colors script was mediocre to awful and the plot paper thin.

 

I can't comment on everything since I couldn't be bothered to continue watching the video. It's not even their points that bother me necessarily, it's the obnoxious presentation. I suppose there's worse, and maybe, just maybe, there could be a point or two hidden somewhere underneath the obnoxious voices and jokes that make Pontac and Graff look like the second coming of Carlin and Pryor, but I'll be damned if I have to scrub through this video to find them (if there's a transcript, then I'll reconsider).

 

 

Wait wait wait.

 

^THIS, in Roger Van Der Weide's mind, is JOKING?

 

You obviously missed the part where Sonic said "PSYCHE! MAKE ME A CHILI DOG TAILS! I'M OUTTA HERE!" but it was cut after the recent patch (I don't like Lost World's story either, but even I know their criticisms about Pontac and Graff's Sonic in that game aren't exactly true)

[FriendBot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4FKlu-K_m4

 

It's time for another episode of Sonic Dissected. 

 

This time it's about why Roger and Luke think Adventure 2's story is great and why Unleashed's story "sucks".

 

In my opinion, Adventure 2 and Unleashed are nice stories, they both had flaws but they are still nicely written stories. Adventure 2 did have a few vague details about Project Shadow, Gerald's mindset before/after Maria's death and not entirely justifying Knuckles' appearance while Unleashed kind of dropped the ball in the middle but the opening and ending were really nice.

 

So let's get this show on the road! 

 

Luke states that Adventure 2's story is the story everyone agrees that's good and is the best story in the series.........(subjective)

 

Roger states how the intro scenes for the Hero and Dark stories are great since there is a role reversal in Sonic and Eggman, with Sonic being hunted down and Eggman infiltrating a base. He states how the stakes are low at the beginning and it gives the story some time to develop over time and grow until the big climax. Which allows the story to introduce new elements to the plot in a steady pace, keeping the audience invested in the plot by giving off a few hints on each element and discuss it for a while.

 

Luke states how the pacing between quiet and action moments are balanced out, giving the story proper "momentum". Luke states how the other Sonic games are all about explaining things and doesn't have as many character interactions, which is a pretty shallow way of stating it but I digress.

 

I agree with Roger that the other characters actually do something instead of mindless cheerleaders. *looks at Generations* 

 

Roger states how Adventure 2's way of introducing new characters is more subtle than 06's or Unleashed's.

 

What I'm confused is how Unleashed is suppose to be like the Adventure series? I mean yeah, the Japanese name was World Adventure and it was originally suppose to be an Adventure 3 but it plays nothing like it at all. The story doesn't feel like an Adventure plot so I don't see how this is valid? Oh yeah, bonus points in using Wikipedia as a source.

 

I kind of agree how underwhelming Eggman achieved his goal of creating Eggmanland in Unleashed was. Like Eggman didn't show much satisfaction in achieving his life goal but I think they're overemphasizing it.

 

And it's funny how Roger damage controlling, that was pretty funny.

 

It's kind of weird how the game supposedly "introduce newer gamers to Sonic" but uses established elements already but that staement was aimed at the Werehog to introduce new game elements so they might've misinterpreted it. 

 

I don't get how the intro was so epic that it became boring? Like how? Because there's no consequences? Oh! So Sonic being overly cocky, giving Eggman the chance to capture Super Sonic, using the Chaos Emeralds to unleash a laser to destroy the planet unleashing Dark Gaia doesn't count as a "consequence"? ............WTF?

 

Is Eggman not really surprised of Sonic transforming into a Werehog a problem. Sure it can be confusing as to why he isn't surprised but I don't see it as a problem though and Sonic not taking the world being split apart seriously is not a problem either since Sonic is taking the matter seriously but he is saying it in his way.

 

Again Sonic not taking the world split apart seriously doesn't mean he can still have light hearted moments, why does Roger want Sonic to be like Shadow? But it is weird how everyone seems to take the world being split apart very lightly, it kind of removes any sort of urgency to put the world back together quickly. So, kind of mixed here.

 

So Eggman being a comedic villain is bad? Like really how is Unleashed suppose to be anything like Adventure 2? It's not!

 

Oh! So Sonic beating up a few Egg Fighters mean he's freaking Chuck Norris?!

 

I'm pretty sure that Eggman's goal is world domination, making Eggmanland is just a minor part of his goal. Is that really that hard to know?

 

Granted yeah, telling Sonic to restore the emeralds is not much of a plot point and it would have been nice if the story focused more on the interactions Sonic has with the people of the world but then again the writers kind of dropped the ball here.

 

That was not what Chip meant. He meant that Sonic wasn't possessed by the Gaia energy is because of how strong Sonic's freewill is. Of course, Sonic was affected by Dark Gaia but he wasn't possessed by it. And yeah it would have been nice if there was an actual explanation of why he transformed would have been nice.

 

Well Chip being Light Gaia isn't much of a plot point if he interacts with the altars just fine, so yeah kind of agree to some extent. And yeah Chip kind of did ruin a few action and quiet scenes with the cartooniness.

 

I don't think Adventure 2's theme was forgiveness or Unleashed's theme was rebirth but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

But Light and Dark Gaia sleeps for millions of years and then they fight once again and Chip was created to stop Dark Gaia when that happens. Yeah Tails and Amy didn't really do much in plot. And again how is Unleashed suppose to be anything like Adventure 2? Heroes is more of an Adventure title than Unleashed is!

 

Well what else do you guys think about this?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

 

Luke states that Adventure 2's story is the story everyone agrees that's good and is the best story in the series.........(subjective)

that game is popular yes but not everyone agrees.

 

I hate Sonic Adventure 2 it should to go the Shadow Relem

[RustyRick]

Oh dear, here we go again...

Overall I do get the impression that Roger and Luke are clearly both SA2 fans and I can see why they love that game's plot for the massive amounts of edgy stuff in it with like explosions, conspiracy's, revenge, etc. as they mentioned it, but it has plotholes for sure as well that were never truly ironed out and leaving up for fan speculation, a few of them being:

- How Eggman exactly found the diary in the first place.

- Every human in the plot (and Amy for that matter) mistaking Sonic for Shadow.

- How Gerald exactly had the time to install the collision course program in the ARK while he was working it out while in his jailcell which would become Sonic's 50 years later? 

Unleashed's story, while not as incredibly grand or as edgy as SA2 was, is definetely not something bad at all. I agree that it's a bit ridiculous for Roger and Luke to call the entire intro sequence boring, since it was a giant trap that Eggman succesfully pulled off in order to initate the whole plot, though I will say that Sonic's line of 'You've really gone and done it this time Eggman' comes off as a bit weird.

The rest of the plot pretty much takes a backseat from there and focusses mainly on Eggman acting disgruntled about the situation for comedy and on Chip and Sonic's bonding for emotional buildup which pays off spectacularly in the finale against Dark Gaia.

And I also completely agree that Eggman finally succeeding in constructing Eggmanland/Robotnik comes off as rather underwhelming, though I picture that in this game's context it's just the first major step for Eggman to establish world conquest.

But oh well, at least Amy also still got a nice little extra role near the end to assure Professor Pickle that Sonic will pull through after Dark Gaia shrouds the land in darkness.

(On a small note, that joke at 16:30 was priceless)

[Double A]

Ok I have read this whole topic so far and finally decided to react.

 

In any case you'd think I don't know what i'm talking about, read me carefully, because I was there during the whole interview with Ken Pontac. I'm actually the one who asked the question about bigger stories and the one who cried under the shower butt naked. So yeah Roger is my close friend so I may know one thing or two about the way his brain works and mine by the same occasion since you look like you blame Roger for a question I asked in the first place.

 

First of all, you call Roger biais, which is funny, because I have no idea how you can be objective for something like that, except if you only talk about specs (that would be boring). I suspect that ''biais'' becomes a bad thing to you when it does not fit with your own taste. What's wrong with giving a voice to the adventure fandom? Are you lacking of empathy at the point you refuse the right to other factions to voice their vision of Sonic? Roger is basically the only one filling that space about Sonic and storyline, one podcast is too much for you?! Just question yourself about that, why you feel that Roger would have ''bad intentions'' in the first place? It's so hillarous to see you guys taking this whole ''pretencious acting'' straight. Roger uses a lot of comedy and it always been like that. That Pontac list you keep using was part of a comedy segment. Roger and I used to make Flash movies together, one of the most popular back then was the Doomed Shadow Show and we joked a lot about the Shadow the Hedgehog game, even if we actually enjoyed it. We also made a Sonic Adventure 2 parody even if we adore that game. It's not because we like something that we cannot point flaws, that's actually something we really enjoyed to do back then. Same for dissected, Roger makes fun of Shadow, SA2, SA1, Unleashed, 06 etc. of course he has a preference for the Adventure style, so what? Why Roger would have the responsability to be absolutely neutral in a fandom of people that keeps pushing their personnal taste all the time and let's not even mention that your side of the fandom is extremely overrepresented compared to Adventure fans. Having an Adventure point of view is just healthy at this point. 

Second, The interview. Some comments are just so extremely contemptuous toward Roger for this and I bet most of you didn't watch the whole thing because everyone who did found us fair with Ken Pontac. We basically met him in good faith because we were curious about the way story was handled in recent and futur games. We later made some animations and real life segments for comedy like it's usually the case with the dissected formula. So no we don't cry under the shower or play darts with Ken Pontac's photo for real. It's just silly stuff we included to make the whole thing less dramatic and more fun to watch. Besides that, we didn't censor anything, we even posted a RAW file with the unedited interview to prove it, it wasn't some kind of evil plan to make Ken Pontac look bad (we even sent him the interview personally). For the famous ''question'' I just asked him if he'd like to write bigger stories like Sonic Adventure 2 because that's something that could be cool in the next games (and if something was already in progress we could have a small hint it was the case). That's my only naughty though with that question, I wasn't like ''HAHAHHA I'm gonna trick the guy!'' For the drama it caused, stop thinking it's Roger's fault, if Pontac's answer was badly received it's because it's actually a real issue to a fair number of people. Neither Roger, Luke nor me have the power to control people's brains. Fans decide if that's actually a problem for them or not and thinking people who care about Sonic's mytho are idiots is absolutely counterproductive and condescending. Their concerns have a value, the Sega forum has a 40 pages long topic to prove it and even if you don't care you can recognize other people do.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

- Every human in the plot (and Amy for that matter) mistaking Sonic for Shadow.

 

I'd like to offer my own POV on this particular point.

 

From what we know, Sonic is the only hedgehog who can run around at the speed of sound. Thus when a HEDGEHOG is running around at the speed of sound committing crimes, it would not be that far fetched for them to assume that it's Sonic. Plus a lot of people would just think Sonic dyed himself black and red to try to disguise himself.

 

As for Amy? ...I got nothing, delusions??

[FriendBot]

I'd like to offer my own POV on this particular point.

 

From what we know, Sonic is the only hedgehog who can run around at the speed of sound. Thus when a HEDGEHOG is running around at the speed of sound committing crimes, it would not be that far fetched for them to assume that it's Sonic, and frankly a lot of people would just think Sonic dyed himself black and red to try to disguise himself.

 

As for Amy? ...I got nothing, delusions??

 

But why would they doubt Sonic to be the bad guy like he saved the world many times before. Why would they assume Sonic went rogue all of a sudden?

[Diogenes]

First of all, you call Roger biais, which is funny, because I have no idea how you can be objective for something like that, except if you only talk about specs (that would be boring). I suspect that ''biais'' becomes a bad thing to you when it does not fit with your own taste.

Perfect objectivity is essentially impossible, but people should try their best to recognize and account for their biases. I don't feel Roger is particularly good at this.

Roger is basically the only one filling that space about Sonic and storyline, one podcast is too much for you?!

No one is saying he doesn't have a right to make these videos. He does. But we are not obligated to agree with or like their contents.

Roger uses a lot of comedy and it always been like that. That Pontac list you keep using was part of a comedy segment.

But it is comedy for the sake of commentary, yes? While he is trying to be entertaining, he is also trying to argue something about the series' storytelling, right? That means there needs to be an element of truth to it, under the comedic exaggerations. But from what I've seen (which admittedly is just that one list, regarding him on the subject of Lost World), there isn't.

On the other hand if he's just making jokes then there's no point in taking his videos as legitimate criticism.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

But why would they doubt Sonic to be the bad guy like he saved the world many times before. Why would they assume Sonic went rogue all of a sudden?

 

Well, people are stupid and I wouldn't be surprised if media sensationalized it to the point that they started believing it. Plus, the military was after him and Shadow, so that wouldn't help his case.

[TearForFear]

Dear Double A,

 

would you please ask Roger to make a video in which he corrects the lies he said about Pontac's Sonic?

 

Namely, these?

 

Because these are lies, you know. This are false statements. These don't sound like sarcastic jokes at all, if they even were meant to be.

 

Honestly, I really, REALLY want to respect him and his opinions, but it's very hard for me to take him seriously (or to unserstand when he's serious and when he's sarcastic)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I didn't have much trouble seeing him being sarcastic even while presenting a point. Guess that's just me then.

[TheHeatSeeker0]

This being my first post, I'm gonna start with jumping right into a heated dicussion. LMAO

 

I've been faithfully watching the Sonic dissected video since I heard of them and I'm a big fan of them. His critiques seem a lot more logical then pretty much 90% of the other goobers I see around the internet. I mean really, compare Roger's 06 video with Clements long redundant videos and you'd see what I mean(Couldn't even watch the first video for too long, it just sounded like some grown a** man crying about how Sonic is suppose to be a cartoon, as if cartoons aren't allowed to have action and drama, no matter the type of character). Going into that, I find it luaghable that a lot of user here are calling Roger biased for liking the Adventure games over the modern games, simply because unlike other said yahoo's hwo act like they're perfect, Roger actually points out flaws within the stories of games like Colors and Lost World, which I can say with all confidence have to be some of the worst looking games in Sonic history(Colors did have a good art style at some points, but the overall tone, music, and all around presentation, ugh.). All I'm see here is a guy offering a different opinion then what's popular(on the interent) and getting flamed by you guys for it, simply because you yourself have a different vision for Sonic. It's just like a fanfit writing on Deviantart got a lot of flak because his fanfics were darker then the perceptions of other's on Sonic, usually him being cute, cuddely, and all that jazz.

 

Let me break it down for you folks, Sonic was made to be cool and edgy. NO, not edgy as in blood and gore, but seriously, one would only have to look at the final boss fight for Super Mario World then the final, no, the PRE-FINAL boss fight for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you know, the giant robotnick mech with one eye that looked real and the other eye looking like the same ones from Sonic EXE: All black with a small dem of red lighting in the middle. What makes the Adventure games better then teh modern ones is having a better interpritation of Sonic and his universe, not this backwords implication fo cute and kiddy that people only want because their either disgruntled with M rated games or die hard Nintendo fans, which is usually the case. Moreso, while Shadow and 06 were serious and dark, neither one was any different from SA1&2 in that regard, as both games had thier balaned to dark moments. Now, I'm more blunt about it, however, from whatever flaws a lot of you guys see in him, he makes his statement much better then me, and most people I see around the net on the dialy.

 

Now, I'm not gettin' on yall for liking what you like, but the comments I've read really are luagable to me though. Here, you have a 2 guys who are doing a much better job then most at making critisizims, but their biased simply because they like certain games over others. If that's biased, then pretty much everyone in this fanbase is biased in some manner, unless you're one of those cats who likes every Sonic game. What really gets me about this is when I see so many people(not here) who not only do the same, but try to force their opinions on others and never come under the same critisizim as the ones scene on this topic, and many of them are so misguided it ain't even funny(sarcasticly). Looking at Sonic games now, from Unleashed at on(save the storybook titles ironicly), they aren't even shells of Sonic's formor glory, which even then, has it's flaws due to bad writing, especially after SA2, but the plots overall still tried to... actually mean something, even in the classics, as Sonic 1 looks more appealing then Colors with it's lack of substance, and with all those rom hacks of it and 2, it's a better experinace overall.

[XEspmasterX]

I guess I'll jump into the fray with my first post as well.

First of all, one important thing I've noticed about Roger's views is that he doesn't look at the story of the Sonic games scientifically. I don't know Roger whatsoever, but I get the impression that when reads a story, he focuses on enjoying the story rather than sitting down and picking apart every single little plot hole. This is why I believe he enjoys Sonic Adventure 2's story so much: It's short, to the point, and enjoyable. I think that whenever a game progresses slowly and little happens, he gets bored and starts to contemplate its flaws. He sees stories as a roller coaster of emotions, and as long as a game keeps going he can become immersed in it and doesn't mind plot holes such as people mistaking Shadow for Sonic (which I think I have a good explanation for, but that's not the point.) 

Now, the reason I think this is because that's how I personally read stories, so the way he presents information makes sense to me. If I'm immersed in a story, I don't really think about plot holes that much, but when a story is boring and pointless I begin to question things. So this theory may not be right at all and is just my guessing, but it does explain some of the mistakes he makes throughout the videos. When he watches the story of a Sonic game unfold, he might forget things because he's caught up in his impressions of what's going on. He's focused on his reaction to the story, and because of this you can tell that he's not an expert on what happens in the story. 

So in other words, he's no literary genius but is concerned with how stories work on a basic level. I realize this has little to nothing to do with Sonic, and I didn't really prove anything here, but I just thought that people might've been treating Roger like he's trying to be some professional literary expert, when he's really just a regular person who likes to play videos games and wanted to share his thoughts on it. He does say that in the first episode; these videos aren't supposed to be "This is how to save the Sonic series" videos and more "I noticed this about the Sonic series." Don't get me wrong, I have quite a few problems with these videos myself, I just think that people might be taking what he says a bit too seriously.

[Double A]

Perfect objectivity is essentially impossible, but people should try their best to recognize and account for their biases. I don't feel Roger is particularly good at this.

No one is saying he doesn't have a right to make these videos. He does. But we are not obligated to agree with or like their contents.

But it is comedy for the sake of commentary, yes? While he is trying to be entertaining, he is also trying to argue something about the series' storytelling, right? That means there needs to be an element of truth to it, under the comedic exaggerations. But from what I've seen (which admittedly is just that one list, regarding him on the subject of Lost World), there isn't.

On the other hand if he's just making jokes then there's no point in taking his videos as legitimate criticism.

 

Then I suspect you never entirely watched his videos since he does specify it's his own interpretation of things often. Take the Orbot and Cubot rant in the Pontac interview for example. He explains why some people absolutely hate these robots and also come with an explanation of why it works for other people. This vendetta against Roger is absolutely unfair considering the astonishing amount of videos with modern fans talking about their taste like it's a fact and they don't take any time to consider anything outside of their own interest. So considering this, Roger is a holy man.

 

No one is saying he doesn't have a right to make these videos. He does. But we are not obligated to agree with or like their contents.

 

It's not because of this that i'm mad. You imply he's dishonest and does what he does in bad faith, that's why I felt the need to interfere. Heck some people litterally said he interviewed Pontac to trick him, at this point you just try to demonise him because he's not supporting your faction of the fandom.

 

But it is comedy for the sake of commentary, yes? While he is trying to be entertaining, he is also trying to argue something about the series' storytelling, right? That means there needs to be an element of truth to it, under the comedic exaggerations. But from what I've seen (which admittedly is just that one list, regarding him on the subject of Lost World), there isn't.

On the other hand if he's just making jokes then there's no point in taking his videos as legitimate criticism. 

 

Last I checked SLW's story was badly received. Just saying. And besides that what's your point? Yes it's opiniated comedy, he's using hyperboles and sarcasm so what? I hope you're as severe with the 3 millions videos that use the same kind of trick for crushing Sonic 06. And why it wouldn't be legitimate? It's legitimate when some random dude says Shadow sucks but it's not when it's about things you guys like? What's legitimate then? the media's reviews? The reviews that keep asking for the ''roots'' over and over? Not biais at all indeed...

 

Dear Double A,

 

would you please ask Roger to make a video in which he corrects the lies he said about Pontac's Sonic?

 

Namely, these?

 

Because these are lies, you know. This are false statements. These don't sound like sarcastic jokes at all, if they even were meant to be.

 

Honestly, I really, REALLY want to respect him and his opinions, but it's very hard for me to take him seriously (or to unserstand when he's serious and when he's sarcastic)

 

Let's make a deal then. Roger will mention any tiny details, talk more simplisticly and announce when he will want to be amusing, the day the unfair statements we see from your side of the fandom will be significantly reduced. Because it works both ways don't you think?

In a later episode Roger will say Shadow the Hedgehog is a comedy. That's also an hyperbole in any case you think he genuinely believes Shadow is a comedy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Let's make a deal then. Roger will mention any tiny details, talk more simplisticly and announce when he will want to be amusing, the day the unfair statements we see from your side of the fandom will be significantly reduced. Because it works both ways don't you think?

In a later episode Roger will say Shadow the Hedgehog is a comedy. That's also an hyperbole in any case you think he genuinely believes Shadow is a comedy.

Wait, you're going to ask Roger to do this?

 

Shit, I'd actually like to be on one of his videos to offer a different perspective if I can. Although that's mainly up to him. Frankly, I disagree with some of Rogers points, but I think he goes far more indepth that I can't help but agree with the guy at times.