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"Sonic Dissected" Dissected: (LEGO) Sonic Dimensions As You Truly Imagined It


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... Holy crap, fair points made or not, this guy is an obnoxious wiseass.

In fairness, look at it from his end. He probably woke up this morning, grabbed some coffee, sat down at his computer, then saw he had a message about a board of users (dunno if he has an account here or not) and has a series of people that he may, at the least, feel like they're attacking him.

In a similar boat, I'd probably also be very snarky if I had so many people, at once, talking about me in such a way.

People like Penders, I'm often surprised how often they don't blow up with the way they're constantly attacked -- deserving it or not. Granted, Penders does blow up sometimes, but all the same.

But with Roger, this is a much smaller scale, it's just easy to see why he presents the attitude he does. Granted, no, it's not the best way to handle it, but it's not hard to see why he's doing it.

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... Holy crap, fair points made or not, this guy is an obnoxious wiseass.

 

You wouldn't exactly be in the brightest of moods if you had what amounted a vast majority of hatemail in your inbox.

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You wouldn't exactly be in the brightest of moods if you had what amounted a vast majority of hatemail in your inbox.

I'd at least actually consider taking in the criticism and actually wondering why a good portion of folks aren't too keen with moi before making such a retort.

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I'd at least actually consider taking in the criticism and actually wondering why a good portion of folks aren't too keen with moi before making such a retort.

Just skimming through the thread, half of the complaints are either calling him pretentious/obnoxious/dumbass, cherry picked screencaps which I'm guessing are completely out of context and most people are saying that they don't watch all of or any of his videos.

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Just skimming through the thread, half of the complaints are either calling him pretentious/obnoxious/

Traits that he has been  very-well guilty of too many times.

 

 

screencaps which I'm guessing are completely out of context

You guess incorrectly. It's pulled straight from his "Dissection" of Lost World.

 

 

and most people are saying that they don't watch all of or any of his videos.

More like 15 to 25% of people in this thread have actually said such. Skimming doesn't always work.

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Traits that he has been  very-well guilty of too many times.

Examples?

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Examples?

His trend of glorifying Adventure 2 and downgrading other games in comparison to make it look better.

 

The infamously bad Lost World dissection video part where he brings up tidbits that don't show up in the blipping story.

 

Condescending to those who prefer other stories compared to Adventure 2's.

 

Had the audacity to say that fans use 06 as a scapegoat to keep the stories of game's bare-bones.

 

Says fans are over-reacting to 06's story; talk about fudging hypocrisy.

 

Parts where one claims him to be trying to be funny, would bring the supossed validity of his criticism into question.

 

 

 

Just to name a few. If you want more, I'd be open to venting some more.

 

That's not to say he doesn't EVER bring up legit topics and facts. He's just got a few MAJOR detriments that tend to be a pain in the ears and arse.

Oh and I don't like his retort on one of those youtube comments, at SOmeCallMeJohnny's review of Adventure 2 either. That was a rather unprofessional and uncouth message.

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Traits that he has been  very-well guilty of too many times.

As off-hand comments I hardly see how that's constructive criticism rather than typical cynicism.

 

You guess incorrectly. It's pulled straight from his "Dissection" of Lost World.

 

Poe's law in full effect.

More like 15 to 25% of people in this thread have actually said such. Skimming doesn't always work.

Okay some people then, my mistake.

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As off-hand comments I hardly see how that's constructive criticism rather than typical cynicism.

 

 

Pointing out his flaws of course. Trying to help him not repeat these mistakes. It's one of the least that could be done to help.

 

 

Poe's law in full effect.

SO he's trying, but not succeeding to be like Nostalgia Critic in that department. Unfortunately, this brings his criticism into question from the get-go.

Okay some people then, my mistake.

No problem! Glad we're clear on that!biggrin.png

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His trend of glorifying Adventure 2 and downgrading other games in comparison to make it look better.

His 4th video goes over some counter arguments about it and at least acknowledges that it isn't perfect, but still gives his reasons for why he prefers that game's story over the other games. Whether or not you consider it glorifying, it doesn't make his observations any less valid.

 

If we could actually discuss his points when comparing Unleashed and SA2, while I don't think the opening is boring like he thinks, I do understand why he consider it such, and I agree, the lack of consequence (or in this case reaction) to the actions that happen is a good point, Eggman's reaction to Sonic's transformation, and the subsequent reactions of characters to the planet being split apart is downplayed or otherwise completely absent, at least during key moments of the story. That and how it's story remains mostly static, again, I understand why it bores him compared to Adventure 2, which has constantly evolving plot elements, proper twists, and more momentum (as he points out, a balance of actions scenes vs characters talking).

 

Whether you agree or not, I doubt his intent was to intentionally undermine the modern games just to fullfill some kind of agenda. He isn't just saying 'Unleashed didn't do these things that Adventure 2 specifically did therefore it sucks', he's saying 'Unleashed didn't engage me with it's storytelling like other stories, such as SA2'.

 

If there's anything I don't agree with, I think to myself 'that's something I don't agree with, I see it in this different way', not 'Grr I will not allow him to throw such slander! He is wrong! He doesn't know what he is talking about!'.

 

Condescending to those who prefer other stories compared to Adventure 2's.

I don't see examples of this unless it's stuff he says outside his videos.

 

Had the audacity to say that fans use 06 as a scapegoat to keep the stories of game's bare-bones.

Again, I'm not sure where this comes from, unless you're refering to a later part where he shows the progression of games that followed the style of Sonic 3 and how it ended up at Sonic 06, in which case I wouldn't call that statement wrong, since it DID cause an uproar of people who began preaching that the stories should become bare-bones. And in that instance, he's refering more to the classic purists who have always made that argument, but simply became more vocal now that they, as he said, had a weapon against the more complex narrative.

 

Says fans are over-reacting to 06's story; talk about fudging hypocrisy.

Don't remember him saying that either. The closest thing that comes to mind is him pointing out how reviewers keep "acting like each new Sonic game is God-sent reboot afer a series of apparent phantom 06s"

 

Parts where one claims him to be trying to be funny, would bring the supossed validity of his criticism into question.

I don't know about everyone else, but whenever he does those bold, hyperbolic statements, I usually just assume that it's a joke and that he's being his usual snarky, sarcastic self and not assume as much from it. I can understand if there are some instances where his point gets lost due to being overly sarcastic, that list about Lost World (and the second one), I can admit did warrant and bit more clarification for such a broad statement. From what I can remember, most times he does that particular thing, it's usually reserved for off-hand remarks about smaller points, not specifically to make a point, which appears to be what he did with Lost World.

 

That's not to say he doesn't EVER bring up legit topics and facts. He's just got a few MAJOR detriments that tend to be a pain in the ears and arse.

Understandable, but I feel like the severity of said detremints vs folks reactions is a bit skewed.

 

I mean, was it too much to just say "hey, there are things Roger said about Lost World that I feel differently about or that he seems to misunderstand or misrepresent" instead of "Roger is such a pompous asshole! I refuse to listen to anymore of his drivel!"

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Oh and ChaosSupremeSonic, you're welcome to become a guest on the show. Here's my email: Rogertheman@msn.com

Da fuq?

 

I was not expecting him to actually address me personally. Awesome!

 

Although I'll need to make a lot of preparations on my end, work on a bit of stuttering moments I tend to have, yadda yadda yadda. Because I'm not going to lie, he might actually own me on the show. laugh.png

 

Either way, it'll be a while before I take him up on this offer.

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Da fuq?

 

I was not expecting him to actually address me personally. Awesome!

 

Although I'll need to make a lot of preparations on my end, work on a bit of stuttering moments I tend to have, yadda yadda yadda. Because I'm not going to lie, he might actually own me on the show. laugh.png

 

Either way, it'll be a while before I take him up on this offer.

When you do, I will be quite happy to see what you end up having to say :D...Let's just hope Roger isn't the type of person to edit your words to turn you into a strawman so he can make his POV look good or anything like that.

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When you do, I will be quite happy to see what you end up having to say biggrin.png...Let's just hope Roger isn't the type of person to edit your words to turn you into a strawman so he can make his POV look good or anything like that.

Truth be told, I know I come off as aggressive on the forums, but I'm pretty moderate in demeanor. (although, ironically a bit of a "playful" asshole if that makes any goddamned sense? laugh.png)

 

Plus, chances are that I'll agree with Roger, but give credit where it's due. People here like Lost World's story, but I happen to prefer the Adventures like Roger. Although I do like Unleashed, but you guys know I point out it's flaws too.

 

I'd hope he won't do that, but it's two (three) blunt and nearly insensitive people making points we might agree on with some differences, so I personally don't think he will. And given that even I tend to go against the whole forum sometimes, it'll be something to see on my end as well.

 

Think I need to prepare in the Voice Thread first, see what you guys think of hearing my voice...and to do that I'll need a microphone...laugh.png

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Oh right, you don't get my sense of humor. That second list was also hyperbole.

The point is that the ultimate outcome of the whole character arc is just a toned down Sonic.
So being grumpy is not the intended conclusion, but the thing that happens..Get it? It's a joke? Heh.. Oops, I explained the joke. .

 

...my question remains.

Does he believe in the things he says, or is he just making a fool out of me?

 

As you may noticed, I struggle to understand sarcasm, it's a problem of mine.

 

I'm just asking for his clear and honest opinion, without hyperboles and sarcasm. it's not that hard.

 

How am I supposed to understand and respect Roger if he keeps treating those who can't understand his jokes as stupid morons?

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As I was rereading this thread (lord knows why), I decided to give the first video a second look and forced myself to sit through the entire thing. I didn't want to. The hosts rub me the wrong way in their presentation (I'm sorry, but it's just obnoxious to listen to and his response doesn't win him many points ), but I figured if Double A is coming in to defend her boy, maybe I should give him some benefit of the doubt.   What kinda bugged me is that video claims to be talking about story, but when it comes time to put the stories under the microscope they summarize by basically cherry picking scenes and ignoring the actual plot just to make a bad joke (the thing they accuse Pontac and Graff of doing). I've already pointed why I disagree with his take on Black Knight and, even if I don't like Colors' story, I think he ignores parts of the plot to make his point. There is a line of cause and effect that runs through the plot (Sonic and Tails arrive in theme park, rescue aliens, discover Wisp powers, Sonic battles Eggman's mech and damages it, inadvertently leaving it lodged in part of the cannon, discover the power sources and how Eggman uses the Wisps, continue liberating Wisps, Eggman fires cannon regardless of if it's ready and it backfires due to what happened in previous fight [that no one caught], park collapses, Sonic and Eggman battle, Wisps are restored and freed) it's just buried in lazy writing that's made worse by the lousy localization (the voice cast are the only good aspect of the English dub, honestly).   However, since I gave the video a chance, his criticism of Colors' writing, specifically that the characters spend a lot of time talking about the threat, specifically describing how it would be used and its power source. In retrospect, it is kind of beaten into you, but this is something Colors excels at. I won't excuse the obvious bad writing, but at the same time I can't ignore that the plot itself, paper thin as it is, works. I do somewhat agree that the way Sonic is written currently may not be totally accomodating to other characters, but I feel with the minimal use SEGA seems to allow these characters currently (Amy and Knuckles are the only ones given some slack it seems, and even then, not much, which might explain Tails's lousy writing in Lost World--Sonic wasn't given someone else to play off of that made more sense in the situation), we won't really know that. Does it make Sonic come off as more overpowered and continues the Solo Sonic thing a lot of us have a problem with? Sure, but it varies (see Black Knight--Sonic is not overpowered despite how the plot is set up). It would most likely be fixed by putting Sonic in situations that don't allow this and/or also make the rest of the cast useful to balance out Sonic.   I don't know if I can be bothered to continue watching these videos--YouTube critics/commentators don't really do it for me because a lot of them manage to annoy me one way or the other--but I can admit that buried somewhere under the lame jokes, ignoring the plots of the games to criticize specific scenes (and holding these scenes as representative of the games' stories as a whole) there is something. That said, I'm not obligated to agree with him either.   Maybe if/when CSS jumps in and offers his own views, I'll give that episode a listen--whether I agree with him or not, he can lay out an argument that'll at least be informative.

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Hi Roger.

 

Jovahexeon of the Swashbuckling Console War Regiment Musketeers here.

 

Sorry if I came off a bit overly negative regarding you and your videos; and I'm glad to see you're apparently willing to connect with us on here, so we can gain a better understanding of each other.

 

I often like a persona that goes to such lengths.

 

Hopefully we can converse and make the most of this. Err, yeah.

 

Welcome to the Sonic Stadium and may this lead to endless possibilities.


Come to think of it Roger, you could even participate in this forum as a full-fledged member, participating in the field of topics, threads and discussions. Come and see the good, bad, best, ugly, whatever that this fanbase has; contribute your own thoughts here and there. Get to know us and vice versa better!

 

I mean, the more the merrier and you seem like the sporting type!biggrin.png

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Thanks for joining in, Roger.

 

 

However, not everything you folks brought up are mistakes, sometimes you seem to miss the exact context in when and why I bring up a point, sometimes you seem to be unable to catch on to my sense of humor and sometimes you seem to be too emotionally hurt by what I said that you fall in the same trap that I fell in with the Lost world video by latching onto irrelevant or tiny things out of context just to make a point.
Hey, I'm familair and guilty as charged with the same attitude, so no hard feelings.

 

I want to apologize anyway.

 

I admit, I was really tempted to compare you to the likes of the Irate Gamer.

 

But reading your post made me sure your heart is in the right place, and I hope everyone else will feel the same.

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@Roger: I do get what you're doing, but I think the issue is that you seem to misrepresent what's actually in the games through your own brand of humor as a way to get your point across. To me, it comes off as cherry picking or purposefully ignoring the plot just so you can find something that makes your case. Having a sense of humor is fine (you can keep it, since that's not my issue), but can't you keep it grounded in what's there? I'm not saying you have to like whatever game it is, but the games provide enough material to dissect already that you don't need to really make things up or completely misrepresent them to make a joke.

 

For example, I just realized you were the guy that did the "Sonic Generations in 8 minutes" parody. I only saw the part that's based on the scene when Sonic's friends show up and where they're left to stand around while Sonic gets to be awesome ("Cheer me on!"). See, that was actually funny to me. Sure it's an obvious exaggeration but, you know, that is more or less how the scene appears to anyone who actually likes characters besides Sonic or has been waiting for them to do something since 2007. 

 

When I brought up the intro for Sonic and the black knight, it's specially to discuss how I think the initial set up feels awkward.

I'm specifically talking about the intro, not only cherry picking the intro for the full story.

I'll rewatch the video and see if I failed to set the tone right. It was one of the first video's after all. Maybe i screwed up. Or maybe the person watching the video's was too agitated in anger that he/she wasn't able to take what I said on the right level.

But doesn't all that get explained in the plot, what you're analyzing? You're saying it's awkward, and maybe to some people I can see why, but it's something that's actually dealt with as the game progresses. There's also you mentioning that Sonic is "Super Jesus Chuck Norris" and he's good at whatever he does and that he then goes on to lecture the knights on how to be better knights, which isn't really what happened in the game (I do see you used Riders as well, and there's probably more truth to that based on the scene I saw, but I haven't played Riders, so I won't comment). I just think if you look at the plot as a whole instead of using one or two scenes to represent what you think of the game, it might help people like me understand the perspective better.

That's just my two-cents though. I'm sorry if I don't appear to be "getting the joke" or if I'm misreading something, but this is what stood out to me when watching one of your videos.

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Good grief, I didn't expect this problem to be this serious.

 

Roger, I sincerely apologize if the making of this topic made you upset. But then again, there was some good like giving a few members like ChaosSupremeSonic a chance to be in your videos, I would like to be part of it as well but have a few problems I'm going through right now that's preventing me so and it's great that you decided to post on what's truly going on with your videos.

 

I did have a few disagreements with some of your points but some points like, Colors' jokes and Generations' lack of using the main cast, I agree.

 

I hope I haven't made you too mad but if I did, I am greatly and truly sorry.

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But doesn't all that get explained in the plot, what you're analyzing? You're saying it's awkward, and maybe to some people I can see why, but it's something that's actually dealt with as the game progresses. There's also you mentioning that Sonic is "Super Jesus Chuck Norris" and he's good at whatever he does and that he then goes on to lecture the knights on how to be better knights, which isn't really what happened in the game. I just think if you look at the plot as a whole instead of using one or two scenes to represent what you think of the game, it might help people like me understand the perspective better.

Actually, while I also thought this at first when hearing that statement, after going back and watching the cutscenes, I noticed that Sonic doesn't ever lose a fight untill the climax. The very first boss is King Arthur himself and Sonic completely humiliates him after only carrying a sword for literally 2 minutes. In fact, the only reason Sonic didn't immediately kill Arthur in their first fight was because of his scabbard making him immortal. And the very next fight he has is against Lancelot, the strongest Knight of the Round Table, who he also wipes the floor with.

 

 

As for Sonic lecturing the knights, it does actually make for a good character moment. Specifically after Sonic defeats Knuckles.

 

We see that the knights, at least Gawain, were more concerned with serving their king, which is where Sonic comes and reminds them that being a knight is more about helping people rather than maintaining your honor.

 

It's one of the things about Black Knight's story that really excels to me, Sonic's character and how he interacts with the world he's in is perfectly written. It gives Sonic a chance to demonstrate exactly the kind of character he is.

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Didn't expect Roger himself to actually join the stadium, talk about reaching out lol.

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Actually, while I also thought this at first when hearing that statement, after going back and watching the cutscenes, I noticed that Sonic doesn't ever lose a fight untill the climax. The very first boss is King Arthur himself and Sonic completely humiliates him after only carrying a sword for literally 2 minutes. In fact, the only reason Sonic didn't immediately kill Arthur in their first fight was because of his scabbard making him immortal. And the very next fight he has is against Lancelot, the strongest Knight of the Round Table, who he also wipes the floor with.

 

 

As for Sonic lecturing the knights, it does actually make for a good character moment. Specifically after Sonic defeats Knuckles.

 

We see that the knights, at least Gawain, were more concerned with serving their king, which is where Sonic comes and reminds them that being a knight is more about helping people rather than maintaining your honor.

 

It's one of the things about Black Knight's story that really excels to me, Sonic's character and how he interacts with the world he's in is perfectly written. It gives Sonic a chance to demonstrate exactly the kind of character he is.

Point taken. I think I just read Roger used it as a way to make a point about Sonic's ego. And rewatching those other scenes, I might've misspoken. Though I did address the lecturing in an earlier post:

 

First of all, Sonic was not an immediate master knight. He struggled and had to learn on that journey. Secondly, even if he went after King Arthur in that opening cutscene, he'd have gotten his ass kicked seven ways to Sunday. Arthur's scabbard made him invincible and could only be neutralized by the other knights' swords combined with Caliburn (never mind the whole thing was a ruse by Merlina). Swords, I might add, Sonic had to earn in duels against the knights. Any time Sonic lectured the other knights it was because their views were completely skewed due to a misplaced loyalty in the "Arthur" they served, and forgetting their true purpose as knights (these fuckers gave up way too easily in the face of adversity, something their Sonic world counterparts would never do).

Like I said, maybe I misunderstood what his point was.

 

I don't think Sonic wipes the floor with Arthur per se, since it seems like the battle just kept going and going (Sonic did get some hits in) that Arthur just couldn't be bothered since Sonic was still too weak. Lancelot though...? Eh, I got nothing.

I agree with Sonic's characterization though and it's why I hold the story of Black Knight in high regard. I still stand by what I said previously.

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Heh, this is the problem with a discussion show like this, there's so many levels and thoughts going at the same time it's immensly difficult to create one straight singular discussion.

For the record- I love Sonic and the black Knight's story. It's a good one.
I don't think I ever said this in any Dissected video. I should have.

The parts about the Black knight were only intended to demonstrate the use of Sonic in the games in general,
Not on attack on Black knight itself. Just that I was worried that Sonic is getting over powered in general.

I did not make this clear in the video, so I understand the problem.
And even worse, I skipped over Sonic's training with the sword for comedy sake. So even outside me failing my intensions, I also deliberately shot my own argument in the foot there.

What can I say? Amateur mistake.



And I will admit, yes, I do cherry pick moments, especially in the early episodes. BUT! It's not for the reason why you think I do.

Thing is, i wanted specific moments that explain what I mean as visual as possible.
Often the things I discuss are very vague, very subtle. Little details hidden in dialogue and that's immensly difficult to explain without nitpicking.
Which is why I latch on the Sonic unleashed and Black knight's opening, as they perfectly demonstrate VISUALLY something that's a small issue in almost every game/ cutscene.
Even when they're TECHNICALLY not the worst examples of the issue.
So no, I don't try to prove my point by dismissing 95% of the evidence and latching on to two scenes, but I do scout out moments where I can demonstrate without a doubt that a subtle small problem I noticed sneaking in the shadows for the entire series is right there in the open.

I failed to explain this in the video.
Thank you for pointing it out.
I still stand by my point I was making, but the way i did it was very flawed indeed.


Most recent episodes are way longer and slower paced so I can discuss the problems on their own turf rather then scouting specific "big moments" that make for comical visuals and spectacular catch phrases but do the actual discussion a disservice.

Hah, wow, this really is starting to become Sonic dissected Dissected, it's almost therapeutic to rip my own work apart as much as I do Sonic's. Heh.


 

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Kinda makes you realize that talking about other people on the Internet can really be effective to them. Whether that's negatively or positively.

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