I think it's time for Shadow the Hedgehog 2

[Froggy]

I'll put it out there, I loved Shadow the Hedgehog. In my opinion the gunplay complemented the traditional 3D Sonic gameplay well, with the level design and general lack of polish letting the game down. I actually didn't even mind the Heroes controls, and it felt satisfying keeping up your speed in the few stages that let you do so (e.g. Lethal Highway), while being aware of upcoming threats. I miss going fast while being careful without the boost to hold your hand.

 

The Hero, Dark and Neutral mechanic was cool and all, but I think the traditional A to B gameplay would be a better fit for a sequel, also seeing as Shadow is sure of himself now anyway. If they were to bring that back they'd need to make sure the missions aren't tedious or repetitive, and it was pretty cool having the choice to do evil, it made choosing the hero path a lot more satisfying. I never understood people hating the "one true ending", the game still has to have a canon ending, the alternate endings were just there for replay value. I can agree they didn't exactly execute that well though.

 

While a lot of the stages blended in together (which probably happened due to rushed dev time), I actually loved the aesthetics, and maybe for a sequel there could be more of a balance between the dark and gloomy stages (e.g. Westopolis), and the more abstract ones (Circus Park). But it's Shadow, so the overall dark tone fits.

 

One thing current 3D Sonic games are missing is a variety of collectables, and Shadow actually did this very well. Not only do you have the traditional item boxes (even the Fire and Electric shields were there), you also had other special items like the keys (which added replay value), bombs, health units, hero/dark refills, etc. The vehicles may have been pointless but they gave you something to do instead of just the usual racing through the stage. In fact, I'd say Shadow has the best "alternate gameplay" of any 3D Sonic game, it never really got in the way in my opinion, it was more the missions that did.

 

I was kind of saddened when Iizuka revealed Shadow was meant to be it's own series, a darker take on the Sonic franchise, and that the game failed on initiating this. I'd love to have a Shadow sub series alongside the normal Sonic games, I'd take Modern Sonic and Shadow over Modern Sonic and Boom Sonic... But that's another topic.

 

Thoughts?

[FriendBot]

Well I don't think anyone would want to see another Shadow game but the gameplay for it was pretty decent but I would prefer that it should be a one-time thing.

 

But Parkour on the other hand............

[Wittymations]

I don't think a darker tone is so bad if it's mild, but gunplay? No. Not in that sense anyway. It was doomed from the start. The only ones who can get by with gunplay are robots and techy guys -- even then, has to be laser based. Or completely and utterly exaggerated.

 

I feel a Shadow 2 would be doomed due to its prequel. But a Sonic and Shadow game I think would be fine.

 

Shadow stages would be mildly grittier.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Shadow the hedgehog is awful,

 

May it burn in the fires with Sonic 06. 

 

It is a game where you can be either hero or villain, despite the fact that the level design and gameplay practically forces you to be the villain/pick up guns.

 

There might have once been a case for a Shadow game which tried to explain his 'mystery' which wasn't really a mystery since it's revealed to him in a throwaway line at the end by Eggman. But now there's no point at all in one.

[Froggy]

Would you guys mind the gunplay if the weapons were "sillier"? For example more weapons like the alien laser weapons, vacuum gun and the toy-looking guns from Eggmans pawns? I get the impression that people are more against the tone of the game and what it represents, instead of hating the actual mechanic. When you think about it it's similar to Tails' mech shooting stages, only you have free Sonic-like movement.

 

And while there are plenty of moments where you were forced to use them, it wasn't 100% of the time, you could still defeat enemies with your homing attack if you chose to.

[lounge]

Another shadow would be well received if it fixed all the criticisms from before. More development with the other sonic characters, GUN and sonic's world in general. Polished gameplay, good dialogue, etc.

Guns, swearing and overly dark tone should be removed. I don't see why another one wouldn't sell if they did this.

[Willsy]

While Shadow wasn't broken, I found it to be very mundane/tedious. I think going with the regular Sonic formula with just a darker tone would have been eons better.

[FriendBot]

Would you guys mind the gunplay if the weapons were "sillier"? For example more weapons like the alien laser weapons, vacuum gun and the toy-looking guns from Eggmans pawns? I get the impression that people are more against the tone of the game and what it represents, instead of hating the actual mechanic. When you think about it it's similar to Tails' mech shooting stages, only you have free Sonic-like movement.

 

And while there are plenty of moments where you were forced to use them, it wasn't 100% of the time, you could still defeat enemies with your homing attack if you chose to.

 

I wouldn't mind it as much, yes.

 

You could but another problem is the health bars for enemies like lower it a bit and I'm  good.

 

I don't hate Shadow but it has its flaws.

[Wittymations]

Part of the problem is I don't see Shadow as NEEDING weapons, you know? The Shadow I saw in SA2 would see weapons as beneath him (bar the eclipse cannon). So, the Shadow in his own game just felt... off.

[Komodin]

I think we could do without the gunplay for a Shadow sequel. Besides the tone issues that comes with having them in a Sonic spinoff, the dude can shoot energy bolts with no obvious drawbacks. No gun can really top that sort of attack.

 

In fact, the way I see it, such a game should really build itself around Shadow's Chaos powers and how they can aid him in getting things done. This method really comes across as being more faithful to the character.

[Jix Hedgehog]

The gameplay didn't annoy me as much as the alien story line and ...130+ endings?

 

It had some creative elements such as following different paths etc, and I thought unlocking things on each level was pretty cool, even if they were guns or vehicles.

 

If they could find a way to tune a sequel down a notch and take it back to earlier Sonic game roots, sure.. Shadow is currently the second most recognizable character in the franchise amongst the newer, younger fans

[StaticMania]

No, its not at all time for another one. Its not worth doing a sequel to one of the most boring games in the series.

 

I don't really think Shadow had the "best" alternative game-play at all...the only thing that was actually fun about the game was the Gun play surprisingly. The Car/Motorcycle were the most pointless things in the game and controlled terribly, the Walkers were forced on you and controlled way too stiff to even be considered decent, and the Hover board thing was only average since its not exactly something I would actually call "fun to use"...it did its job, better than all the others. The Turrets use are completely  anti-Sonic when having to use them in the actual levels and the other items in the game didn't really add anything.

[Badnik Mechanic]

And while there are plenty of moments where you were forced to use them, it wasn't 100% of the time, you could still defeat enemies with your homing attack if you chose to.

It was far too ineffective to use that move for even the first stage.

Also what's the point in making the weapons sillier. Just make a new IP.

[Froggy]

It was far too ineffective to use that move for even the first stage.

Also what's the point in making the weapons sillier. Just make a new IP.

I just did a run through Westopolis using only the homing attack and got an A rank, I don't see the issue. The fact that you mention a new IP basically confirms you just don't want the tone of Sonic being tampered with. The normal games would be unaffected though, that's why I like the idea of a Shadow sub series.

[Wittymations]

Problem with that is, well, who's Shadow? He was brought up as just being dark Sonic. He's Sonic, but darker. When you see Shadow, you know he has the same skillset as Sonic. So, when they play Shadow, they'll just see Sonic and that will effect how people view Sonic. He's not different enough to have his own spin on the games except for a slight change of tone.

 

The Chaotix, to me, I feel would be different enough to have their own style of a game. But Shadow isn't.

[Froggy]

Problem with that is, well, who's Shadow? He was brought up as just being dark Sonic. He's Sonic, but darker. When you see Shadow, you know he has the same skillset as Sonic. So, when they play Shadow, they'll just see Sonic and that will effect how people view Sonic. He's not different enough to have his own spin on the games except for a slight change of tone.

 

The Chaotix, to me, I feel would be different enough to have their own style of a game. But Shadow isn't.

 

His personality makes him different, which extends to his use of guns, which added a whole new feel to the normal Sonic gameplay. I think it was just poor execution (mostly level design) that let the game down, the concepts were actually really solid IMO.

[Wittymations]

Yes, but skills and his purpose are the same. Personality only makes a difference in story, not gameplay. People still see him as dark Sonic. After all, that's how he was introduced and how he got popular.

 

For some reason, dark hero counterparts are really, really popular.

[Autosaver]

I've always wanted a Sonic spin-off that focuses exclusively on Blaze the Cat.

 

A female lead in a Sonic game.

[Gabz Girl]

No no no! I do not want to see a sequel to Shadow the hedgehog as it's probably one of the worst Sonic games out there and it was the Sonic game that pretty much started Sonic's downfall.

You know what Sonic Team should've done? If they wanted to make their game darker and edgier they should have followed Naughty Dog's strategy. Jak 2 was a darker and edgier sequel to the cheerful and colourful Jak and Daxter but the change was really good! There was swearing, but they didn't go overboard. There were guns, but they worked well, you could power them up and they didn't look realistic! And the enemies weren't uber realistic either, so it was all very consistent. Shadow the hedgehog on the other hand was a mess and had the game been more like Jak 2, even with all the swearing (ffs they swear in Japanese) and stuff it would've been a whole lot better than what we got in the end.

[Froggy]

Yes, but skills and his purpose are the same. Personality only makes a difference in story, not gameplay. People still see him as dark Sonic. After all, that's how he was introduced and how he got popular.

 

For some reason, dark hero counterparts are really, really popular.

 

But his personality was the excuse for that new game mechanic, which they added to make him feel different from Sonic. Beforehand he was basically a re skin, I agree with you there. Shadow was the only game where he didn't feel pointless as a character.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I just did a run through Westopolis using only the homing attack and got an A rank, I don't see the issue. The fact that you mention a new IP basically confirms you just don't want the tone of Sonic being tampered with. The normal games would be unaffected though, that's why I like the idea of a Shadow sub series.

No the fact I mentioned a new IP confirms that I understand Shadows character and peoples perception a lot more than you do.

"Hey guys, we hope you enjoy shadows new game... He used to be armed with a semi automatic, he used to be armed with a tac 9... but now he's armed with all these silly fictional weapons!"

Shadow has been built up to be this 'serious' kinda dude who uses real world weaponry, if you suddenly put a game out in which he uses silly or weapons which are made up and... kiddy... then he's going to look more ridiculous than normal.

However a new IP has no baggage, has no history and might actually find an audience more receptive than people who know the character and expect stuff from that character.

[Froggy]

No the fact I mentioned a new IP confirms that I understand Shadows character and peoples perception a lot more than you do.

"Hey guys, we hope you enjoy shadows new game... He used to be armed with a semi automatic, he used to be armed with a tac 9... but now he's armed with all these silly fictional weapons!"

Shadow has been built up to be this 'serious' kinda dude who uses real world weaponry, if you suddenly put a game out in which he uses silly or weapons which are made up and... kiddy... then he's going to look more ridiculous than normal.

However a new IP has no baggage, has no history and might actually find an audience more receptive than people who know the character and expect stuff from that character.

 

I only mentioned silly weapons out of curiosity, to find out the main reason people don't want a sequel (I didn't want that at all). Personally I loved blasting soldiers in the face with an SMG. I liked the dark take on Sonic, it was funny (probably unintentionally so) and refreshing.

 

It baffles me that this idea is so crazy, but Sonic Boom, a.k.a. "Sonic, but not really Sonic" is being praised. If there was no TV series people would just look at it as the Sonic equivalent of that Crash bandicoot game where you ride monsters. Crash was in it but it wasn't even Crash. I'd bet money that Shadow the Hedgehog plays more like a Sonic game than Boom will. 

 

Shadow as a sub series has purpose, Boom is just redundant and only serves to market the show.

[Enesephus]

You know what Sonic Team should've done? If they wanted to make their game darker and edgier they should have followed Naughty Dog's strategy. Jak 2 was a darker and edgier sequel to the cheerful and colourful Jak and Daxter but the change was really good! There was swearing, but they didn't go overboard. There were guns, but they worked well, you could power them up and they didn't look realistic! And the enemies weren't uber realistic either, so it was all very consistent. Shadow the hedgehog on the other hand was a mess and had the game been more like Jak 2, even with all the swearing (ffs they swear in Japanese) and stuff it would've been a whole lot better than what we got in the end.

 

 While I do feel a Jak 2-esque game would have been a better one, quality wise, I don't feel it would have worked out much better, because people would still be complaining about swearing, guns, etc. The thing is, part of why Jak 2 worked is because one could see the characters being placed in a darker setting. To many people, Adventure 2 was dark enough, and to be any darker just "wouldn't be Sonic," even if Sonic's not the lead.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Call it "Project Shadow" but make it a different game. Have it take place in an entirely different part of the world. Hell, make it take place in the sol dimension or something. Tone down the colors a bit, restrict swearing to the bare minimum only to add tension, give Shadow his own villain (ONE SINGLE VILLAIN, MIND YOU) that is both evil but also noticeably sane and not goofy. If Sonic shows up, use him as the comic relief, and make him actually get involved with Shadow for a change. Make the choice aspect not moral-choice. Make it the difference between ditching Rouge or listening to what she has to say, rather than kissing babies vs. throwing kittens in a meat grinder.

Have different choices lead to different levels, but make any level accessible from any point, rather than having to start a new campaign every six levels. If we have to have gun gameplay, make ammo scarce, and limit the use of guns. Make speed levels and combat-oriented levels separate, but keep the controls the same.

[Diogenes]

Shadow the Hedgehog was a terrible game, and we most definitely do not need more of it.

 

In my opinion the gunplay complemented the traditional 3D Sonic gameplay well,

It really doesn't. At running speeds it's unreliable; there are only fractions of a second for the lock-on to make a decision, and you're at least as likely to run into something in your way before you're able to down it as you are to take it out successfully. And if you ever need to do more than clear out one guy in front of you (which you will, almost constantly), you're forced to come to a stop and wave your gun wildly at the crowd before being able to move on.

It's not even fun to shoot things; nothing really reacts to being attacked, so you're just pumping bullets into uncaring meat walls. And there's no real aiming, so you're either just facing vaguely towards enemies and spraying with autoaim weapons or trying in vain to line up a shot with the few dumbfire weapons.

And that's the best you can hope for in combat. The melee weapons are all shit, with low damage and low durability, and the combination of short range, Shadow's slippery controls, and enemies with contact damage means you're begging for a cheap hit. Shadow's natural abilities are even worse, being even weaker and even shorter ranged, aside from grinding away at beefy, slow-moving enemies with the basic spin jump, which feels more like an exploit than an intended mechanic.

I miss going fast while being careful without the boost to hold your hand.

On this I agree but there are much, much better ways to do it than what ShtH did.

and it was pretty cool having the choice to do evil, it made choosing the hero path a lot more satisfying.

If more than two or three missions actually felt "evil" I might be inclined to agree. But the majority of ShtH's non-neutral missions are mind-numbingly boring; most of them are just wiping out one of the two sides, except you're not given reason to give much of a shit about either one, and otherwise you're mostly just playing gofer for one side or the other. Aside from trying to assassinate the president (which you don't even manage to do, even if you complete that mission), I can't think of any mission that feels meaningfully evil.

I never understood people hating the "one true ending", the game still has to have a canon ending,

But that's the thing, it didn't. A more clever game could have multiple endings that could conceivably be canon, the differences between them small enough that future games wouldn't need to address them. Or, if they actually had the guts to kill off Shadow (ha), they could've had any number of endings be possible.

At the very least, there wasn't a need to invalidate the player's choices within the same game they make them. If they were dead set on having a single canon ending, why not wait until the next game to tell us which it is? In a game about choices, let us at least finish it on our own terms, even if you're going to decide how things really go down.

the alternate endings were just there for replay value.

Except...you need to get the 10 false endings to unlock the Last Story and the true ending. It's not really replay value content if you can't even finish the story without doing it.

While a lot of the stages blended in together (which probably happened due to rushed dev time), I actually loved the aesthetics,

:[

ShtH is honestly one of the ugliest games in the series to me; I always end up comparing it to rotting meat. It's all dull, grimy, sickly funk, even the levels that are supposed to be bright and colorful.

you also had other special items like the keys (which added replay value),

Only if you were a completionist, since most of the doors led to nothing useful or interesting.

The vehicles may have been pointless but they gave you something to do instead of just the usual racing through the stage.

I'd take a game that does one thing well over one that does a dozen things shittily. I don't give a game extra points just for trying a lot of different things.