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As long as there's no genre roulette, I would prefer the Full 3D Macchiato. Sonic Adventure 2 was insanely fun to play...as Sonic and Shadow at least. If that was the whole game then it would be one of my favourite Sonic games ever.

 

HOPEFULLY, Sonic Boom will differentiate the characters like the 2D classics and not the Adventure games.

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The franchise needs to be unified.

Fuck what this group of people have to say, fuck what that group of people have to say. Fuck what anybody has to say. Find an appropriate direction for the franchise. Test the fuck out of it. Stick to it, and develop it. Reduce frequency of mainline games, to avoid over-saturation. Diversify into different genres in order to fill the gaps.

 

There are too many different versions of Sonic.

 

This isn't to say there shouldn't be diversity. By all accounts, have different, varying level designs and aesthetics. Of course all should have a basic overarching "look" that needs to be stuck to, but go wild. Futuristic cities among normal ones, among mystical caves and ruins.

 

Story? Decide whether you want one, or you don't. None of this half-assed bullshit. If you want a story, then make sure its a good one. Don't be scared of ignorant fuckheads who think that "Sonic can't have a story". They are wrong. Anything can have a story as long as its not some lazily hashed together excuse of a plotline. If they want to have stories, they need to make sure that story conceptualisation and game conceptualisation start at the same time, and are developed TOGETHER. Don't come up with a bunch of levels, and then try to stick them together with duct tape and call it a story. Entire development procedure must change to accommodate it.

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I just want something that's good for what it is with no bullshit strings attached to the rest of the game. I've had a lot of fun with all three categories.

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The franchise needs to be unified.

Fuck what this group of people have to say, fuck what that group of people have to say. Fuck what anybody has to say. Find an appropriate direction for the franchise. Test the fuck out of it. Stick to it, and develop it. Reduce frequency of mainline games, to avoid over-saturation. Diversify into different genres in order to fill the gaps.

 

There are too many different versions of Sonic.

 

So yes, there are some positives and negatives to having a large and expansive amount of sub-categories of Sonic games. But the focus of this topic isn't about how good or bad this reality is, rather, it is about...

 

Which interpretation of Sonic, or at the very least, which ideal or concept appeals the most to you?

 

I can't help but feel that you missed the spirit and focus of the topic. Beyond me strongly disagreeing with your opinion on the diversity of the series, it would have been nice if you had at least actually bothered to pay more attention to what the point of discussion was about in the first place.

 

If you don't have anything valuable or thoughtful to offer, please re-consider what you're going to post.

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It's funny coz Latté is my favourite coffee too.

 

 

I really like the boost style more than anything else, it's a shame only Unleashed and Generations had appealing level designs for me though, since I don't care for it nearly as much in 2D (Generations 3DS and the Rush games are okay, but I'm never itching to play them).

 

 

I feel the full 3D is the style that is most inconsistent for sure.  I like the wider levels of Adventure and 2006 but the engines are so clunky.  I like the longer levels of SA2 and Shadow but their engines are a little on the slippy side and the platforming is a little basic and uninspired at times.

 

 

It's funny that the 2D classics are the ones I never feel I love the most and yet are certainly the ones I find the least faults in.  Sonic 3 & Knuckles is just sublime, and 1 and CD are always fun too.  I guess for me, the aesthetic of rushing through huge, realistic settings in a way that's pre-determined, but looks like Sonic is blasting his own path through the envioronment, is a big part of what makes me forgiving of the boost playstyle's flaws.

 

 

My ideal design?  An integration of physics play into - and the continued refinement of the boost gameplay, with new level designs that offer more pathways - but all as fun and cinematic as the stuff reserved for the parts you always play in Unleashed and Generations' designs.  The boost itself I enjoy, but isn't necessary, as long as that awesome sense of speed remains there and isn't just automated or put into sections like the quick-step and drifting was in Colorus, for example.

 

Alongside this, the 2D series should absoloutely ditch the boost gameplay - just isn't as fun with the restricted view.  Keep the graphics and music modern by all means, but once we've got the Sonic 3 & Knuckles port out, get some new titles on that Sonic Retro engine.

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Hard to pick between the boost gameplay and 3D but I think I'll go with boost, I like the sense of speed and accomplishment it gives you when you can start pulling off speed runs and while the levels are more linear, its not a bad thing so long as the level itself is well constructed and besides not having multiple playable characters, its my favorite gameplay style of the three (but that's not to say that I still don't get near the same amount of enjoyment from the three).

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I like my hedgehog medium rare, please... with some Bearnaise sauce...

 

er.. I mean...

 

Classic Sonic style is the one I will always prefer. I love those games and return to play them all the time. I've had some fun with the Unleashed boost style too, although I have Generations on Steam and the controls are much more slippery, it can be annoying at times.

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Though I generally like all three categories, I generally prefer 2D classic cappuccino by all means.

 

Personally at this point I'm past hoping for Sonic Team to do /this/ kind of Sonic game or /that/ kind of Sonic game without worrying about them flubbing it up somehow. I have to echo Discord that I just want to see a Sonic game that's good for what it is with no bullshit strings attached.

 

Though for this ideal kind of Sonic game, I'd prefer to describe it as "a Sonic game that's 'great' or 'amazing' for what it is" rather than just "a Sonic game that's 'good' for what it is". At the risk of sounding like some sort of elitist Sonic fan, I feel that although we've had a fair share of Sonic games throughout the past 2000s decade and the current 2010s decade so far that can be considered "good", we still haven't had a Sonic game in a long time that can be (generally) considered "great"/"amazing".

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Well, unfortunately the game I'd most like to play...doesn't actually exist, at least not outside my head. I don't mean to overrate my own game design theories, but I feel like the series has missed some incredible possibilities, such that no existing game or category matches what the series could accomplish.

But, to work with the categories given, from least appealing to most:

Boost: I do not like it. I feel like the boost gameplay strips out the heart of the series by focusing too much on the speed. Levels are narrow, focused on endlessly moving forward, with most of the rest of Sonic's abilities relegated to pass/fail tests to keep moving forward as fast as possible. The levels are so restrictive, it's like every move you make was explicitly planned by the designers...instead of giving me space to play in, I feel like I'm just following their script, and that doesn't keep my interest at all. And it, kind of amazingly, manages to use the available space even worse in 3D than in 2D; at least in the Rushes you get a lot of switchbacks and wallruns so you're actually moving around in 2D space, but the 3D games are so flat and narrow that it feels closer to one dimension than three.

2D Classic: Now I do like 2D Sonic, when it's designed well. Generations Classic doesn't do a thing for me. That game aside, the classic gameplay has produced some of the best games in the series, and its core mechanics are really unique and fun. There's really no series out there that can replicate the sort of half-controlled rollercoaster feel of a good 2D Sonic level. With some more polish and some new ideas, I feel like 2D Sonic could have a place alongside the modern-day 2D platformers like NSMB, DKC(R/TF), and Rayman Origins/Legends.

Full 3D: This category, vague as it is, comes closest to the game I'd like to play...even if its members all end up falling short. Some of them I feel just came too early to have the right scale and polish. Some of them come close to the scale, but the mechanics are just no good. Some of them are Boom, which looks like it's going to be a rancid pile...but, well, I'm just going to ignore that one. I feel like 3D gameplay really should've been something revolutionary for the series, a sort of "opening up" almost on par with SM64, but various issues have held it back. Back on the Genesis Sonic's unique ways of moving redefined the concepts of floors, walls, and ceilings as compared to other 2D games, and I feel he could do the same in 3D, if given a proper chance.

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If we're talking in a theoretical sense, I'm partial to something that would be an appropriate mix of Boost Gameplay and 3D (So what would that drink be; a latte-macchiato abomination?) I still want my thrills, speed, and adrenaline. I want my twitch reflexes to be tested and to have the option to keep the flow going as fast as I personally want to go through the use of Sonic natural abilities- as seen in cut scenes and other media- rather than overwhelming reliance on the landscape. However, I also still like the wide-open spaces of full 3D games. I miss the contextual platforming, the more interesting layouts, winding layouts, and the more exploratory worlds and hubs of the 3D games. Perhaps this sounds completely irreconcilable on paper, but if you could find a way to mash all of these together you would make for a really happy Penth.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be over here sipping on this dark coffee from Starbucks. ಠ_ಠ

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Well, unfortunately the game I'd most like to play...doesn't actually exist, at least not outside my head. I don't mean to overrate my own game design theories, but I feel like the series has missed some incredible possibilities, such that no existing game or category matches what the series could accomplish.

But, to work with the categories given, from least appealing to most:

Boost: I do not like it. I feel like the boost gameplay strips out the heart of the series by focusing too much on the speed. Levels are narrow, focused on endlessly moving forward, with most of the rest of Sonic's abilities relegated to pass/fail tests to keep moving forward as fast as possible. The levels are so restrictive, it's like every move you make was explicitly planned by the designers...instead of giving me space to play in, I feel like I'm just following their script, and that doesn't keep my interest at all. And it, kind of amazingly, manages to use the available space even worse in 3D than in 2D; at least in the Rushes you get a lot of switchbacks and wallruns so you're actually moving around in 2D space, but the 3D games are so flat and narrow that it feels closer to one dimension than three.

2D Classic: Now I do like 2D Sonic, when it's designed well. Generations Classic doesn't do a thing for me. That game aside, the classic gameplay has produced some of the best games in the series, and its core mechanics are really unique and fun. There's really no series out there that can replicate the sort of half-controlled rollercoaster feel of a good 2D Sonic level. With some more polish and some new ideas, I feel like 2D Sonic could have a place alongside the modern-day 2D platformers like NSMB, DKC(R/TF), and Rayman Origins/Legends.

Full 3D: This category, vague as it is, comes closest to the game I'd like to play...even if its members all end up falling short. Some of them I feel just came too early to have the right scale and polish. Some of them come close to the scale, but the mechanics are just no good. Some of them are Boom, which looks like it's going to be a rancid pile...but, well, I'm just going to ignore that one. I feel like 3D gameplay really should've been something revolutionary for the series, a sort of "opening up" almost on par with SM64, but various issues have held it back. Back on the Genesis Sonic's unique ways of moving redefined the concepts of floors, walls, and ceilings as compared to other 2D games, and I feel he could do the same in 3D, if given a proper chance.

 

Actually Dio, you're absolutely free to elaborate on what your ideal style is. I just gave my own personal interpretation of the current existing categories we have based off of existing games and their success. 

 

So yeah, going on about what you like or want to see in the series is totally fine and encouraged, actually. I'll be doing the same at a later date.

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I can't help but feel that you missed the spirit and focus of the topic. Beyond me strongly disagreeing with your opinion on the diversity of the series, it would have been nice if you had at least actually bothered to pay more attention to what the point of discussion was about in the first place.

 

If you don't have anything valuable or thoughtful to offer, please re-consider what you're going to post.

Perhaps I did miss the point of what you said, and for that I apologise. 

I'll try to give a more appropriate response.

 

At the moment, I have no clear idea of which blend of coffee Sonic is my favourite. I like bits and pieces of everything, but this mixture has so far not been made.

You have the classic Sonic cappuccino. I like that. So much to love about the classics. Level design, level aesthetics. All the way to the sense of atmosphere that S3K managed, with zero dialogue. Obviously, I think that regressing to merely imitating that is a huge step backwards and undesirable. Eespecially when the imitation is barely better than a knock-off, like Sonic 4.

Then there is the Boost Sonic Latte. I like parts of this too. I really love the environment designs here. Unleashed, Colours and Generations all looked beautiful. Felt heavy with creativity and passion. Loved the sense of speed too. However, as fun as it can be, its very limited. The nature of the gameplay, means that there is a little room for expansion beyond a certain point. When you reach that point, the level design reaches a level of advancement, where the controls start to fall apart. Certain levels in generations were a bit annoying to handle, when you were moving slowly. I mean, myself and others have explained all of the flaws at great length already, and it would be insulting to list them all out here.

Last is the 3D Sonic Macchiato, which I also like. Mainly SA1 and small fragments of Heroes. Can't speak for LW and Boom obviously; no Wii U and the latter isn't out yet. SA1 was great because it had space. Something which has kinda been lacking of late. I mean, truthfully, I can't exactly put my finger on what I actually like about SA1, other than the fact that I just do. It feels....right. Its just a little bit too slow at times and obviously, there are issues with the controls and level design here too.

 

What I actually want, is a smooth black coffee; no sugar, no milk. I think the Sonic coffee blend has gotten way too complicated. So much stuff has been added that the taste of the coffee has been drowned with other stuff. Stuff that doesn't necessarily compliment it. Simple stuff often is what leads to the best results. I guess I was trying to allude to that in my initial post, but I got carried away on a bit of tangent.

 

I'll echo Dio and say that the so called "full 3D macchiato" is what is closest to what I want, but only in the vaguest sense. I want a 3D space to occupy, I also want a sense of speed and exhilaration, I want competent level design, atmosphere, visuals. And so on.

 

I feel like my idea of the simple plain black coffee with no sugar, is the best way of getting there. Boil everything down to the basics. And then think about how that would work in the 21st century in 3D.

 

To that end, I want to go back to what I originally wrote. I DO think that the franchise needs consolidation now. 

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I'm a bit restrictive when it comes to my preferences. I tend to like both 2D and 3D, but nowadays I dislike them being mixed. And part of the reason why is because when you shift from 3D to 2D and I'm over a expansive land, for example Spagonia or Generations Chemical Plant, then I feel like I missing out on an opportunity to run like a caffinated hedgehog on speed.

 

So with me, it's not fully a matter of dimensions. I love 2D, my favorite game of all time has always been Sonic 3 & Knuckles even with awesome games like the Adventures and Generations out. And I'd really love to see that game get bested by another title for the franchise, because the impossible only takes a little longer to reach. And as far as 2.5D goes, I tend to look at that the same as I do 2D, just with 3D images.

 

But at the same time, I want 3D, the kind that gives me the ability to roam and bounce around the setting. Even in SA1 and 2, although this is a bit of a hindsight thing, I've been feeling incredibly restricted in where I could run around as far as the non-treasure hunting stages go. And then onward to Heroes and ShTH, it gets even more restricted and automated. Sonic 06 at least makes an attempt at trying to branch out, but we all know what it's problems were.

 

Point is, when it comes to 3D, I want to jump around on the rooftops in City Escape, off and around pagodas in Chun-nan, and the canyons of Rail Canyon. It doesn't have to be fully open-world, it can be halfway as I still have freedom to walk anywhere on the path I'm given.

 

More importantly, I'd like them all to be flexible in how I can traverse through them. If I want to boost through them, I should be given the option. If I want to explore places, that too should be an option. If I want to take a more careful and cautious path, again, needs to be an option. I'd like that diversity to be harnessed and crafted into a package that sets it apart from all the other games just like it did during the Genesis era. That's what I'd really like to see.

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*whispers* I just want to go fast, destroy robots, and have fun.

 

I don't really...care much about the classic games anymore, in that I like the games but I have zero attachment to their formula--not that I'd be against new 2D or even 3D games incorporating elements of that gameplay but...it'd be more of a "oh, ok, that's cool...I guess...." sort of thing. Maybe I'd change my tune if it actually happened and impressed me, but as it is, eh.

 

I personally lean towards the second and third categories. I appreciate the boost games' more arcade-y feel and focus on speed, but, well, I'm also fond of being able to (in Indigo's words): "stop and smell the spinning sunflowers at [my] leisure". To describe what I want in a very, very basic sense, I'd like to have a game that's really satisfying to speedrun and feel like a badass in general, but doesn't feel awkward when I do feel like slowing down and exploring.

 

Although, one thing that frustrates me is when they have open areas like the one in Generations, but there's really nothing to find or do in them--not even, perhaps, a little obstacle course of some kind--for reference using the closest thing I can think of in the series proper, I'm thinking of the parts of the Unleashed hubs where you had full access to your normal abilities--with the reward being [insert collectable, perhaps a Red Ring, perhaps some sort of game-specific one, whatever]. Or maybe a few random NPCs, or at least one of the boost game "10 Rings"...or monitors/item boxes which I'm glad are sort-of-back-but-not-quite. But I digress.

 

...So uh, yeah. I'm leaning towards macchiato with a bit of latte, I guess. Hold on, is there an iced coffee of Sonic games??

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Full 3D calls to me.

 

While I do enjoy me a good taste of Classic Sonic every now and again, I would much prefer the 3rd choice. Its the style that imitates the 1st choice and I feel that it could perfectly offer "that" and so much more than it actually did.

 

The 3D already gives you a lot more to work with and it just needs to be perfected.

...And it can be. The wide open space allows for acceptable exploration, non-restricted view leads to less problems for player reaction, more choices for those platforming obstacles...and it all just feels a lot less restricted in ways the other 2 don't. This one can feel like a speedy experience just as much as the others, but it can also have the best of all  worlds with using the pinball physics and the varied levels and level gimmicks, Open environments with things to explore for, non-restricted view, more alternative paths, along with less open corridor obstacle courses and very fast linear reaction based sections that can possibly feel exhilarating.

 

The Level designs of the past Full 3D games were okay with me in Sonic Adventure, Sa2, and Sonic Heroes...2 of these games already rank in my top 5 Sonic games. Sonic Adventure most definitely, the levels were very fun and very different from eachother.

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Uh, where do the Advance games fit, especially Advance 2. I want more games to be like the first 2 advance games since they were like the classics but slightly more modernized in ways like designs, character choice, and speed.

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Uh, where do the Advance games fit, especially Advance 2. I want more games to be like the first 2 advance games since they were like the classics but slightly more modernized in ways like designs, character choice, and speed.

 

You can categorize it however you like. My categories were just to give you an idea of where I was coming from. smile.png

 

If I could offer my conjecture, though, Advance 1 is very much a Classic styled game while Advance 2 is sort of a bridge between the Classic and 2D Boost games. Advance 3 is... well... Advance 3.

 

 

I don't drink coffee, how would this analogy work for me? Do I just order Chaotix tea instead?

 

Feeling classy?

 

Cheese,_Cream_and_Vanilla_at_tea.jpg

 

Classic 2D Darjeeling

Modern Boosting Hibiscus

Full 3D Old English

 

and now featuring Sonic's Schoolhouse Chai

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I just want something that's good for what it is with no bullshit strings attached to the rest of the game. I've had a lot of fun with all three categories.

Only a couple of years ago, I would have said the same thing, and I still think it's a good answer. Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Generations, and Adventure 1/2 are all some of my favorite Sonic games. But we all have our preferences, ultimately, and you know what I really want?

 

2w68orn.jpg

This delightful deliciousness right here.

 

Sonic Lost World made me realize just how much more...satisfying I find full 3-D control to be. Don't get me wrong, I love the boost games. It's a great gameplay style that worked wonders in reviving Sonic, but what I really, really want to see is a super refined and awesome full 3-D game that builds on Lost World and/or the Adventure games and hits all the right notes. The games we've gotten may not be the best the series has ever seen, but there's so much more potential to do so much. I think Lost World tapped some of that, but, much as I enjoyed it, it didn't succeed at every mark. But it was at Lost World's best and most fun moments that I realized that I would honestly prefer a really well-done full 3-D experience over anything.

 

So yeah.

 

*sips coffee*

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2D, 2.5D, Boost, 3D Macchiato, to be honest with you, I don't really care anymore at this point.

 

All I want is a game that isn't afraid to take risks, while still staying true to the series' conventions without adding in an overbearing amount of stupid gameplay gimmicks (Medal/Animal collecting to advance, a last story, drastically different character play styles). It's exactly what Boom is doing, they're finally going back to the Sonic 3 & K method of alternate characters: they're focused on getting to the goal ring, yet under their own abilities and methods on foot, per say. Elements of team work are thrown in, like Sonic Heroes in a sense, which I don't mind. The developers are bringing in what worked in past Sonic titles and trying to blend them together to make a fun game.

 

So in the end, that's all I really want, to put it lightly: a game that's pure fun and doesn't feel like a chore to play through. Something relatively functional. Decent control and little to no automation wouldn't hurt either.

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If i had a preference, I prefer the 2D style of game play, making your way from A to B and destroying bad guys along the way with some speed thrown in for good measure. There has been times in the 3D series where I have got side tracked or lost along the way. Make no mistake i have enjoyed some of the 3D games like the Adventure Series and Heroes but I loved Colours and Generations as it mixed both 3D and 2D in very well.

 

I think it is nice to have a bit of diversity in a series, look at Mario, he has been to Galaxies, Different Islands but the core has remained the same, solid platforming with something different thrown in to keep us interested

 

For now, I will be interested in what direction Sonic Boom will take us, if it is a success and I am hoping it will be, then it could be a turning point. I approached Lost World with similar caution, whilst I enjoyed it, sometimes the gameplay drove me up the wall (literally) and can understand why it divided opinion. 

 

Lastly, a great post by Indigo Rush again, always measured in stating his opinion on the topic of our favourite blue hedgehog

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As long as I have fun with it, I don't really care. I do have nostalgia for the older 3D games, which is the only real reason Lost World is so spectacular (decent, but not impressive), but I can definitely appreciate the boost games, even though I don't think they really control well and I can't stand Sonic Unleashed.

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3D. Always will be 3D for me. I like the classics, sure, but only as classics, or a handheld game.

 

I loathe the mixing of 3D and 2D that this series has been doing. It's the same as the whole genre roulette that SA2, to some. Sure, not to that extreme, but to me, it's the same idea. You mix a gameplay up, and take away that control for a different style. I just hate that.

 

Now, for me, the ideal game would be the 3D without the alternate gameplay styles of the Adventures. It would mix the Adventures and Sonic 3 and Knuckles together.

 

But with this title, you select one character and you stick with them the entire time until you select another. Despite my love for SA2, the whole change of characters think still, to this day, pisses me off.

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