Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[MegasonicZX]

Animals were fortunately easy enough to get thanks to those circus stages.

But the medals? Oh good lord, that got annoying quick.

I really hope that Boom doesn't go the route of having collectibles for any purpose other than bonuses.

The medals weren't that bad so long as you took a minute (or 30 seconds) to go out of your way for them and unlike the extra collectibles you can tell if you've collected them all in a stage or not.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Seriously, why can't Knuckles climb any damn wall he pleases?

Have you ever tried hacking him into one of Sonic's stages in SA1 or 2?

 

But if you did that for Boom, outside of its speed sections, I don't think anyone would be able to guess.

But I think that's the entire point, to be recognizable as something different, but, from the clearly Sonic-y speed sections, still noticeably fast. That's kinda why they're there. I think people are taking for granted the size of this game, as if the speed sections will make up a very small part of it. But from what we've seen, only one level hasn't had it.

[Marcello]

You know I kinda thought about that too, but honestly was her normal personality that great to begin with?

 

Knuckles' isn't and they not only kept that, but also ramped it up a few notches.

[Tani Coyote]

Wait....you have to collect things to unlock later story events? If it doesn't involve you going out of your way to do it, and by the time you get to the thing you need to unlock you already have the right amount of whatever, then I guess I can let it slide.

 

In Jak 1, you were told how many Power Cells you needed to advance to the next area, so it wasn't quite as obnoxious as Unleashed, which had this seemingly open world but required you acquire more medals the moment you were ready to head to a stage.

Collectibles really should be left as optional to the main storyline.

Later Jak games did this well; collecting them just gave extra perks, but it was by no means required.

The medals weren't that bad so long as you took a minute (or 30 seconds) to go out of your way for them and unlike the extra collectibles you can tell if you've collected them all in a stage or not.

Why should we have to go out of the way for them if they're that easy?

Just remove them entirely in that case. Or at least make it so you don't need them to progress.

Collectibles are something the avid gamer grabs, not the person who just wants to get to the final boss.

[Soniman]

The problem I have is that I feel expecting speedy platforming is perfectly reasonable, as that is (or was, at least) the core identity of the series.

If you pick up a Mario game, you can safely expect it to be a platformer, unless it is very explicitly not. That's because platforming is part of Mario's identity. He is Jumpman, breaker of bricks, stomper of Goombas. Even in his RPGs this is carried over in theme and mechanics even if not as strongly as in the main platformer line.

But Boom is like, the Starfox Adventures of Sonic games. The thing that people expect from the series, the thing that they follow it for, is cordoned off into shallow gimmick sections. And the "main" gameplay is something else entirely, something that's almost the antithesis of what the series is about.

 

 

Sigh, but Starfox Adventures was a main series title, this isnt at all.

[Boomer]

 

 

Have you ever tried hacking him into one of Sonic's stages in SA1 or 2?

You mean those levels that weren't designed for him? Unlike this game?

 

[TheLaw34]

 

 

Have you ever tried hacking him into one of Sonic's stages in SA1 or 2?

 

But I think that's the entire point, to be recognizable as something different, but, from the clearly Sonic-y speed sections, still noticeably fast. That's kinda why they're there. 

 

If I'm playing a sonic game i want to have the option to be not slow at any time.

The speed I would settle for is still probably lower than what others want.

 

But the point is. Even if in every 15 minutes there is a 5 minute speed section there will be 10 minutes where I have no choice but to go even slower than mario.

(From what we've seen)

 

One of the reason this bother me is because its not only slower than what I want from a sonic game its slower than a game I would pla in general. ex. MGR,Bayonetta

[The Deleter]

Honestly the only problem I have with people calling this game crud, is that while doing so, people are unintentionally saying the standards that games like R&C and J&D have in their game design, and the standards of fans of those series', are crud, when that is a very subjective thing to say. Especially when dissing the game because it's "boring".

 

What works for one series, game, or gamer, doesn't have to apply to every single other series, game, or gamer.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You mean those levels that weren't designed for him? Unlike this game?

But having to compensate for four different people means you can't have him be totally broken like he is in other Sonic games. No level here is made specifically for Knuckles, is it? Sonic couldn't complete a Knuckles Stage in SA1, could he?

 

Knuckles' isn't and they not only kept that, but also ramped it up a few notches.

I...I like Knuckles.

[Tani Coyote]

Honestly the only problem I have with people calling this game crud, is that while doing so, people are unintentionally saying the standards that games like R&C and J&D have in their game design, and the standards of fans of those series', are crud, when that is a very subjective thing to say. Especially when dissing the game because it's "boring".

 

What works for one series, game, or gamer, doesn't have to apply to every single other series, game, or gamer.

I think a lot of it is subconscious. As a fanbase we expect certain things of Sonic, so while this could pass as a Jak or Ratchet game, it doesn't pass as a Sonic game. So even if we're trying to judge this entirely as its own game and not a Sonic game, I think what we expect of Sonic is still influencing opinions subconsciously.

There have been some fairly objective critiques, such as lighting, but overall I think that no matter how much we try to judge this by its own merits, it's a difficult task. The name "Sonic" is in the title.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I wish we had some non-fans of Sonic to compare to, a control group per-say.

 

Obviously they would have feelings biased toward or against beat-em-ups, but considering this fanbase, I think it's the best we can get.

 

I have shown it to my friends who have played little to no Sonic, and they said it looked pretty and they'd give it a try, but only that.

[Dizcrybe]

I wish we had some non-fans of Sonic to compare to, a control group per-say.

 

I doubt non-fans even care about Boom.

[Detective Shadzter]

Honestly the only problem I have with people calling this game crud, is that while doing so, people are unintentionally saying the standards that games like R&C and J&D have in their game design, and the standards of fans of those series', are crud, when that is a very subjective thing to say. Especially when dissing the game because it's "boring".

That's just a plain unfair argument no matter how you put it.

[Milo]

Sigh, but Starfox Adventures was a main series title, this isnt at all.

 

Shadow the Hedgehog was also a spinoff and people still criticized it for being distanct to Sonic regarding tone, visuals, and gameplay, so no, the "spinoff card" (still) doesn't give the likes of Boom a free pass.

[Soniman]

Shadow the Hedgehog was also spinoff and people still criticized it for being distance to Sonic regarding tone, visuals, and gameplay, so no, the "spinoff card" for Boom still doesn't give it a free pass.

 

Sonic Battle is a shitty game because you cant go fast. That's the logic im seeing right now. 

 

Again, dislike Sonic Boom for it's own merits all you want, but I dont think getting on it's case for not being like Sega Sonic when we were told of the combat emphasis from the start is exactly fair

[Boomer]

 

But having to compensate for four different people means you can't have him be totally broken like he is in other Sonic games. No level here is made specifically for Knuckles, is it? Sonic couldn't complete a Knuckles Stage in SA1, could he?

 

People aren't asking for him to be totally broken, they're asking for him to properly have one of his signature moves.

[MegasonicZX]

I think a lot of it is subconscious. As a fanbase we expect certain things of Sonic, so while this could pass as a Jak or Ratchet game, it doesn't pass as a Sonic game. So even if we're trying to judge this entirely as its own game and not a Sonic game, I think what we expect of Sonic is still influencing opinions subconsciously.

There have been some fairly objective critiques, such as lighting, but overall I think that no matter how much we try to judge this by its own merits, it's a difficult task. The name "Sonic" is in the title.

Admittedly I have to admit that this doesn't really look much like a jak or ratchet game, after looking at more of the gameplay footage I really don't see the resemblance anymore compared to before where just seeing the environment made it look like those. If anything (and no one take this as an insult its just observation on my part) I feel as though this wouldn't be compared to jak and ratchet if we didn't know who the developers were.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Shadow the Hedgehog was also a spinoff and people still criticized it for being distance to Sonic regarding tone, visuals, and gameplay, so no, the "spinoff card" (still) doesn't give the likes of Boom a free pass.

Shadow wasn't a spinoff. It had regards to the main canon, had the same core gameplay and physics of Sonic Heroes, and was in direct reference to Sonic Adventure 2. 

People aren't asking for him to be totally broken, they're asking for him to properly have one of his signature moves.

Which would be broken.

[Diogenes]

But I think that's the entire point, to be recognizable as something different, but, from the clearly Sonic-y speed sections, still noticeably fast. That's kinda why they're there.

They could make the Boom series unique without making it "not Sonic". To look at Starfox again, compare Adventure to Assault. Adventure abandons basically everything about Starfox to make it some dinosaur-laden pseudomystical Zelda knockoff, and it really didn't work. Assault, while it's hardly a perfect game, actually builds off of what Starfox is about; it's a sci-fi rail shooter series, and they added roaming third person shooter missions. It's obviously very different gameplay from the arcadey rail shooters, but there's a logical, thematic, and mechanical connection between them.

I think people are taking for granted the size of this game, as if the speed sections will make up a very small part of it. But from what we've seen, only one level hasn't had it.

Even if there are a ton of speed sections, they still look shallow and crappy, and they're still separate from the rest of the gameplay. Speed is something that should be integrated into all of the gameplay, not cordoned off into one part of it.

[Dizcrybe]

Shadow the Hedgehog was also a spinoff and people still criticized it for being distance to Sonic regarding tone, visuals, and gameplay, so no, the "spinoff card" (still) doesn't give the likes of Boom a free pass.

 

Except SHtH's levels were still designed as if it were a mainline Sonic game. They were linear, had rails, dash pads, loops, general "go-fast" sections, basically like a Sonic Adventure stage painted black. At its core, it was still a Sonic-styled game. Sure, guns and vehicles were there, but most of the time, you didn't need to use them.

 

When you see any of that in Boom outside of the automated speed sections, lemme know.

 

EDIT: I should also mention that Shadow was made to tie into SA2 and end the arc he started in that game. Not to mention it still took place in the Sonic universe.

 

Boom, on the other hand, is not related to the main series in any way whatsoever besides having some of the same characters, and takes place in an entirely different universe.

 

With all this is mind, Boom is way more of a spinoff than SHtH was, so the comparison is moot as far as I care.

[Boomer]

Which would be broken.

That depends on the level design, since the combat sections are in arena style areas (you have to fight to proceed) he should be able to climb on the walls.

 

[Diogenes]

Sigh, but Starfox Adventures was a main series title, this isnt at all.

What does it matter? This is still "Sonic". How do you make a game about the blue blur without making the blue, blur?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

They could make the Boom series unique without making it "not Sonic". To look at Starfox again, compare Adventure to Assault. Adventure abandons basically everything about Starfox to make it some dinosaur-laden pseudomystical Zelda knockoff, and it really didn't work.

Okay, first; It worked, but people didn't like it because it wasn't what they wanted. It's totally an okay-average game.

 

Assault, while it's hardly a perfect game, actually builds off of what Starfox is about; it's a sci-fi rail shooter series, and they added roaming third person shooter missions. It's obviously very different gameplay from the arcadey rail shooters, but there's a logical, thematic, and mechanical connection between them.

And? 

 

Even if there are a ton of speed sections, they still look shallow and crappy, and they're still separate from the rest of the gameplay. Speed is something that should be integrated into all of the gameplay, not cordoned off into one part of it.

But it doesn't need to be because it's not the main focus because this is a spinoff. And what exactly is any more shallow about them than just playing Generations and Unleashed? You run fast down a linear hallway and it's fun. The only thing this doesn't have is the boost.

That depends on the level design, since the combat sections are in arena style areas (you have to fight to proceed) he should be able to climb on the walls.

And what would that do? Allow you to camp and remove all possible challenge? 

[Boomer]

And what would that do? Allow you to camp and remove all possible challenge? 

 

Lead to hidden areas, put stuff in walls to collect.

And it wouldn't remove any challenge as you'd still have to fight.

[Soniman]

What does it matter? This is still "Sonic". How do you make a game about the blue blur without making the blue, blur?

It's just like, why are we acting surprised and complainaing about this NOW? No real new information has come up, we ALWAYS knew of hte emphasis on combat, we knew speed would probably take a back seat. If Sonic Unleashed can still be a Sonic game despite 75% of it being beat em up, tornado, hub world stuff, I dont see why this can't