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Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

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I said he's done more moronic things in the games, and fans can seemingly excuse those moments due to certain circumstances. So I don't understand why that can't apply here, especially since the prior examples we at least know the context, with the 'cream filling' line, we're literally taking it at face value and calling "OMG HE'S A DUMBASS, RUINED FOREVER" 

 

That's...pretty extreme.

 

 

Its not so much that I don't agree that he's a dumbass, for all we know he could be a complete meathead, but rather why is this one line of dialogue a confirmation that he has no brain cells whatsoever?

 

For one thing, I never said he was ruined forever. I said that line is more dumber than his display in the Sega games.

 

Which is ultimately no different from the conclusion you're drawing: that Knuckles has done more moronic things in the games. How do you know that that line is somehow not indicative of an example where he's actually being significantly dumber than the rest of the cast? You don't, because like me you don't know the context, so to make a definitive conclusion like that is still based on the same faulty picture that I'm working from.

 

If we're not supposed to be making a judgement about any lines of dialogue without context, then that should go for any conclusions drawn about it whether they're positive or negative, thus no one should say anything about them in comparison to past games.

 

Or, instead of holding everyone to that high of a standard, we can allow ourselves to take the line at face value and express our opinions about it as we're supposed to do with marketing of unreleased media given to us by the companies. My opinion on that line is that it's dumber than anything he's done in the Sega games. You think he's done dumber shit in the Sega games. That's perfectly fine. But don't tell me I can't draw my own conclusions based on the same information you are. =/

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Y

 

For one thing, I never said he was ruined forever. I said that line is more dumber than his display in the Sega games.

 

Which is ultimately no different from the conclusion you're drawing: that Knuckles has done more moronic things in the games. How do you know that that line is somehow not indicative of an example where he's actually being significantly dumber than the rest of the cast? You don't, because like me you don't know the context, so to make a definitive conclusion like that is still based on the same faulty picture that I'm working from.

 

If we're not supposed to be making a judgement about any lines of dialogue without context, then that should go for any conclusions drawn about it whether they're positive or negative, thus no one should say anything about them in comparison to past games.

 

Or, instead of holding everyone to that high of a standard, we can allow ourselves to take the line at face value and express our opinions about it as we're supposed to do with marketing of unreleased media given to us by the companies. My opinion on that line is that it's dumber than anything he's done in the Sega games. You think he's done dumber shit in the Sega games. That's perfectly fine. But don't tell me I can't draw my own conclusions based on the same information you are. =/

 

You're right, I don't know, but I also don't agree with that notion. At the end of it, its really all opinions. I wasn't trying to say that people can't draw their own conclusions, but expressing that I don't really agree with the exaggerated conclusions that have been brought up.

 

 

In other words, I simply do not agree with the notion that this one line of dialogue makes Knuckles any more dumb than he was in the canon series.

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On knuckles: Hope hes not a total idiot and can be cool sometimes. I dont really care to speculate though.

 

Wanted to give my thoughts on the combat in the game.

 

Right Now It looks pretty bland. The only interesting thing was spindashing and homing attacking to get to enemies. I will admit a couple of sonics moves do look pretty vcool

 

Some say Enemies should go down in three hits.

I Think: Thats a bad Idea since it make combat less of an actual intresting system and more HIT Y BY THIS BUTTON 3 TIMES OR DIE effectively turning combat into nothing but padding you're forced to get through.  Also it reminds me alot of the combat in jak which I think was pretty bland.

 

I Consider this game to be part beat em up and I think beat em ups are supposed to make you feel bad ass when you are playing well while also making sure the enemies are something you have to constantly keep track of. The best beat em ups also always have tons of enemy variety and over the top moments straight out of an action movie.

 

I Hope Its not just an evade button and is instead something like mgrs parry or bayonettas witch time where you match enemies attack timing precisely for big damge something like this  will keep you on your toes test your reflexes and match sonic nicely.

 

To enhance flow and make it more fast paced there could be a large focus on aerial combat. Because what gives you more of a sense of speed that homing attacking into a group of foes and beating them without touching the ground. Also enemies should chase you down like enemies in ninja gaiden and should even attack you while you're in the air. Now thats what I would call an interesting combat system that matches sonic speed.

 

But hey if its really as bland as it looks. Well more Ideas for my game i suppose.

Also as much as I try to criticize and say how it would be better I know im the type of guy whos gonna have fun fighting in this regarless.

 

Also main complaint is still that it needs a run button.

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I'm going to make a prediction about Lyric: Since he is a snake, there is going to be a special flute or instrument that is his weakness. When it's played, it hurts him.

If they do that, totally not ripping off The Serpentine from Lego Ninjago.

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So, yeah, I'm still mixed on the whole thing. I hate how Knuckles is so far being portrayed as nothing but dumb muscle. And just when we thought they couldn't flanderize him anymore.

 

Ironically, though, I'm surprised by the negative reactions to Amy. Everyone always HATED how Amy only ever fawned over Sonic. Now that Amy no longer does that as much people are complaining about it? What? That's one of the few good things they ARE doing. (Until they made Amy a damsel in distress in the 3DS version AGAIN.)

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I'm still kind iffy on Knuckles; this is literally his first prominent role in anything for years, so I kind of want to see how it goes. I kind of figured he would be based on his modern personality, namely being primarily a brute who's  a bit slow in the head.

 

 

BUT, while I may not be too fond of Knuckles having fewer brain cells than normal, he also hasn't been reduced to his normal role of Butt Monkey yet, so..that's got me somewhat hopeful that the writers will treat him with some bit of respect despite his apparent lack of intelligence.

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Some say Enemies should go down in three hits.

I Think: Thats a bad Idea since it make combat less of an actual intresting system and more HIT Y BY THIS BUTTON 3 TIMES OR DIE effectively turning combat into nothing but padding you're forced to get through.

The combat looks like padding as it is, bulking up the enemies isn't going to help.

You really don't need bulky enemies to make combat interesting, anyway. For example, rather than trying to have intense 1-on-1 battles, the focus could be on taking out multiple enemies quickly and efficiently.

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Ironically, though, I'm surprised by the negative reactions to Amy. Everyone always HATED how Amy only ever fawned over Sonic. Now that Amy no longer does that as much people are complaining about it? What? That's one of the few good things they ARE doing. (Until they made Amy a damsel in distress in the 3DS version AGAIN.)

 

Since I haven't commented on this yet, I have to agree that most of ya'll are totally overreacting about Amy not being all over Sonic anymore. Maybe she'll just be, I dunno, flirting with him? They didn't outright say she's not into Sonic or something!

 

Besides, I like this because obsessive Amy is definitely the worst Amy. I know she wasn't so obsessive in SA1, SA2 etc. but Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06 (selfish bitch, choosing Sonic over the world) and especially Sonic X made her way too obsessed which ruined her character. In Sonic X she was always angry and screaming "SONIKKU NO BAKA!" about a hundred times throughout the 78 episode run. Do Amy fans want this?

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I would also like to say that Knuckles' idiot moments don't really show up a lot.
 
There are 2 obvious moments outside of him being tricked due to naivety.
 
There's the "Failiure of Comprehension" of trying to understand Tails' technology description in Sonic Riders.
There's also that small part in Sonic 2006 where he runs the wrong way before starting "the end of the world."
 
These are 2 of the very few moments where he's played idiot for laughter. You have 4 other times where he's tricked by Eggman (not counting S3&K) and 2 times where he's tricked by Rouge.
 
Any other instance where one would call Knuckles a dumb-ass is more of a moment where Knuckles is the Buttmonkey. His Buttmonkey status, is usually caused due to him being a heavy Karma target or plain Unlucky rather than being an idiot.

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I think everyone is just focused on Boom Knuckles at the moment, who definitely seems a bit more....out there than canon Knuckles; a dumbass? No, but he's definitely a lot less lucid than before.

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The combat looks like padding as it is, bulking up the enemies isn't going to help.

You really don't need bulky enemies to make combat interesting, anyway. For example, rather than trying to have intense 1-on-1 battles, the focus could be on taking out multiple enemies quickly and efficiently.

 

I agree and I would hate for enemies to be turned into damage sponges that you chip at forever  but I dont want to go to the other extreme and turning it into dynasty warriors.

Yet I think situations of both sides of this spectrum are intresting, important and add variety that will keep the game from getting boring atleast IF DONE RIGHT .

 its not just about you take this long to beat this enemy, its about this enemy is challenging/interesting because of this. keeps you on edge because of this, and can be beaten super fast if you do this.

 

Anywway I would say a weak enemy should atleast last a combo or two.

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Enemies in Jak take a single punch to dispatch them, metal heads take 2, but there's something satisfying about melee combat in Jak, probably the cartoonish nature of the stretch and squash animation used when they attack, giant fists and classic "THA-WACK" sound effects.

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According to the Bob Rafei interview, it seems that not all speed levels will be lane changing ones, rather only the earlier ones being that. That's nice then, even though I actually didn't mind the look of the lane changing ones.

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With regards to whats being said about Knuckles, I doubt he will be too bad, as they already have Sticks as the silly/crazy/wacky character, that says stupid things because her logic is flawed/in her own imagination. (kind of reminds me of Buck from Ice age 3)

Knuckles will probably be the butt of Sonic's jokes, but I dont think he will be outright stupid.

 

That scene in Sonic riders comes to mind, when he reads the ancient language and helps the characters progress. Dumb? no way. He has experience and skills the rest of the team will need. I'm expecting jokes made in Sonic Boom, but he will be serious and taken seriously when he is needed most likely.

 

Can't wait to hear him and Sonic bicker in the levels.

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I actually really like how they are handling rings this time around, in the sense that it's more of a health bar. It seems a lot more lenient than past Sonic games, and it will certainly be a better choice for this kind of game. I wonder if this game is getting a life system, or if it will just respawn you at a check point for an unlimted amount of times. I'd prefer the later personally, I think an actual one up system wouldn't fit.

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I'd actually quite like if lives stick around. Now that's a thing that'll always stay in a Sanic title :3 (joking, but not at the same time.)

 

I guess depending on the level size, lives may or may not be the right choice. But I'd really prefer the lives. Even if I saw game over in Sonic 1 so many times because of lives, it's something that made the challenge more "fun" to me at least. 

 

Me and my cousin were taking turns trying to beat Sonic 1 once because this is before we had skill but seeing that you only have 1 life left makes things more fun, intense, breath taking, frustrating, and awesome when you dodge an orbinat with a well timed roll. Getting a live per 100 rings tho... That might be hard. Unless, as someone said earlier, there's an upgrade that lets you store more rings.

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I'm definitely worried about the combat and pacing now. The game still has potential, but it's a bit discouraging when do fine says the Werehog felt better. The problem with the combat seems to be lack of depth, which will hopefully be fixed in the final game.

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Most games have disposed of lives in favor of checkpoints.

 

While keeping them helps Sonic remain distinct from the pack, I don't know if that alone would be a basis for keeping them. I'd rather the stages just be challenging than challenging with lives.

 

Especially if there's a stage like Lava Mountain or Eggmanland that makes me all GRRRRRRRGGHHH and I'm forced to start from the beginning if I die too much.

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I still have high hopes for the fame though, as they said, there are a lot of promising things and hopefully the issues we've seen and heard have been ironed out or are in the process of being ironed out, as they did say it was an early build.

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Hmmm, I guess. It's just I for the most part don't like not having lives. In a game like Kingdom Hearts it wouldn't make sense and I definitely love not having lives but in Sonic, I don't know. Being more of a brawler, it would make sense. But it would really be disappointing, to me at least.

 

As for combat. As everyone else here said (not literally everyone) that's one reason the werehog failed. It took too long to power up and you had pretty basic combos.... At the start. Hopefully Boom makes combat pick up quickly so we don't have this problem and I believe it will. But as for it being worse than the werehog. You have to consider that this is early on in the game. No matter what level this is story wise, character wise... they aren't at their max stat and abilities. It's already told they'll have upgrades so later on, they'll probably get quicker better moves, like with most games (at least that I've played!) you'll probably get ups that make the character a beast. I'll bring up Kingdom Hearts (One) again. When I was first introduced to it, I was slightly mad that I was such a "weak" character. In KH2 you get moves a lot quicker and such, like the forms. Since I was introduced to and beat 2 first. Playing as the main character in KH1 I was slightly sad that I had such a limited array of moves. Recently I picked it up again and beat it and realized how fun the combat is as you progressed. So seeing as no matter which in story level this was the base characters. It probably livens up and gets better.

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About Sonic acquiring jet boots to help him go faster: This method of upgrade works for Ratchet and Jak because they're all about leveling up and gaining new technology to become more powerful and more efficient. I don't think this will apply to Sonic, though, as Sonic Boom seems more focused on their natural abilities and the difference between the four characters' skills. Plus, what's the point of rocket boots if he can run fast already?

 

As cool as Sonic with rocket boots sounds, (though *cough* shadow exists *ahem*) I think just having a secondary speed implemented into the gameplay ala All4One would suit the formula of the game a lot better.

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Games are so big now and auto saves are such a common characteristic that it impacts the point of lives in a normal game setting. Even if you lose all of your lives, you're only set back to the beginning of the stage you played. Their purpose is trivial outside of an arcade title where the punishment for losing all of your lives is a total redo. But they're not about to do that with a game in the scope of Sonic Boom, so outside of some ridiculous one-continue run mode, they're unnecessary. The series should've ditched them long before now.

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I will say that the characterisation in this is absolutely brilliant. The character interactions from what I can tell are really well written, I always enjoy sone banter between Sonic and Eggy and this time it's no exception. And from what I've heard about Eggman hitting his Eggmobile back into place and hopping around it to get it to work again sounds hilarious too.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about the story too.

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