Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[SlickEvan]

In those games the goal is almost always forward and there is often little reason to stop , But you still can if you choose to yes there were some time where you were forced forward but it was a tiny portion of the game. Plus there are still many points in the level where you arent just required to move in a traight line.

So yes it is very different since as I said, in those games you can actuall control your direction and speed.

In this game you do nothing BUT get forced forward.

 

ALso im mostly speaking of generations since its been ages since ive played the others also 

Wait what? You CAN control your left and right direction. And in the Boost Trilogy, while you could "control" your speed, it's not by much. It's: "Do I wanna go fast?" "Faster?" "Or Boost Speed" Those are the three speeds, which include, pressing backwards, not boosting, and boosting. You couldn't really control your speed, so how is it fair to say that Generations is different? Because you can move 10 steps slower than your boosting speed? That's kind of not fair. 

 

I see if you could literally go backwards, but you can't. In the GUN truck, Aero Chase Segments, Speed Highway Building Run, and more crossing into the other Boost games you're forced to go forward. If that's different than Boom, then I don't know what to say. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Wait, you're arguing about automation in a chase sequence of all things??
 

[SlickEvan]

Wait, you're arguing about automation in a chase sequence of all things??

 

I wouldn't say arguing. 

[TheLaw34]

Stuff thats totally valid but also takes up tons of space

 

We arent comparing the sonic booms running sections to sonic generations chase scenes.

We are comparing sonic boom running sections to sonic generations running sections.

And what you call controlling your direction is nothing but moving left and right while the game forces you forward what I mean is going ,forward, back, left, right  things that sonic boom doesnt let you control.

 

But i will say that you are right on the speed aspect.

[SlickEvan]

Well which Running sections do you mean? If we're talking about the Guardian, then I don't see where you're getting at, but if we're talking comparing the Running Levels in Boom to Generations overall Running? That's a tad unfair also, because that's comparing a main piece to the whole game vs. the mechanic of a certain stage. Like Sonic 2 special stages v. Sonic Adventure, that's unfair because the special stages purpose isn't for you to move all around but to speed through and get rings. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

So I'm on the twitch e3 stream and everyone is having a fit about the game being almost 10 minutes late thanks to disney infinity.

 

EDIT: Aaaaaand they're using the outdated footage from before.

[TheLaw34]

Well which Running sections do you mean? If we're talking about the Guardian, then I don't see where you're getting at, but if we're talking comparing the Running Levels in Boom to Generations overall Running? That's a tad unfair also, because that's comparing a main piece to the whole game vs. the mechanic of a certain stage. Like Sonic 2 special stages v. Sonic Adventure, that's unfair because the special stages purpose isn't for you to move all around but to speed through and get rings. 

 

Okay well if you're going to think of those level as special stages I suppose there is nothing I can say.

But I will say its a damn shame that in a sonic game the only time you get to go fast is in the special stages. 

 

Anyway just watched the stream. I wish they had atleast managed to make the game LOOK like it had the excitement of previous games. Still never nice to see stephen getting hate. Unless you're the one delivering it

[Willsy]

So far, I have to say that Shattered Crystal just looks better. I'm not saying that Rise Of Lyric looks bad, but I think Shattered Crystal looks more fun to play. RoL looks good at the moment, but I can only really say good or pretty good. Maybe we'll see a lot more of it at Gamescom, where they'll hopefully show off some more depth to the combat, more interesting levels, etc.

But at the moment, I prefer 3DS. Sanzaru did a great job, and I'm looking forward to that version the most.

[SlickEvan]

Okay well if you're going to think of those level as special stages I suppose there is nothing I can say.

But I will say its a damn shame that in a sonic game the only time you get to go fast is in the special stages. 

 

Anyway just watched the stream. I wish they had atleast managed to make the game LOOK like it had the excitement of previous games. Still never nice to see stephen getting hate. Unless you're the one delivering it

 

Who says the game has to be about going fast though? 

 

And the special stage thing was just a comparison b

[TheLaw34]

Who says the game has to be about going fast though? 

 

And the special stage thing was just a comparison b

They are the ones who said they wouldnt be forget what make sonic great. They are the ones who said they were buillding from a core of speed and fun movement.

 

But they didnt build from that core they took it and shoved it into a room that has zero interaction with the main game outside of a boost pad that make you go forward for less than a second with zero control over where your going.

 

I want to like rise of lyric as much as the next guy. If this were a puzzle game,a shooter or a strategy sonic game things would be different.

 

But this is action platforming game with sonic in the title, so nobody has to say it has to be fast. 

It should already be known.

 

Anyway enough of me ranting on the game being to slow for today.

 

What had really got me interested is the giant hand weapon thatyou can pickup. I mean seriously is nobody gonna mention that? Its great and I hope that the rest of the weapon are even better.

[SlickEvan]

They are the ones who said they wouldnt be forget what make sonic great.

 

I thought it was how he overall played compared to the platformers of his time. Not just speed. Speed was part of his cool factor not his defining gameplay. When moving in Sonic 1 he isn't relatively fast. It's how you use the environment and the skills given to you to get through the level quicker each time you play not how fast he moved. While faster than many of the platformers of his time, it was part of his advertisement not part of his gameplay as a whole.

[StaticMania]

The speedy game-play was apart of what made Sonic feel unique, its not the entirety part of what made Sonic great but it was always a core element in the series in SOME way.

 

Its only apart of the Ads because it was a part of the game-play, the game-play(and levels)is what allows Sonic to be speedy.

[TheLaw34]

I thought it was how he overall played compared to the platformers of his time. Not just speed. Speed was part of his cool factor not his defining gameplay. When moving in Sonic 1 he isn't relatively fast. It's how you use the environment and the skills given to you to get through the level quicker each time you play not how fast he moved. While faster than many of the platformers of his time, it was part of his advertisement not part of his gameplay as a whole.

So i've heard people say I personally dont really buy it. And it seems luckily the sanzaru the developers dont buy it either.

The games remembered throughtout sonics history have all seemed pretty fast to me and everyone else.

 

It was BRB who said sonic meant speed and joyus movement to them and I agree with them, sadly they fail to adequatley deliver either of these. To me anyway.

 

Like I said Sonic Boom seem like a Okay game in its own right.I even still want to play it. but as a sonic game its not up to par.

Lucky for them they seem to be trying to convince people it shouldnt be judged as a sonic game now and those people are eating it up. 

[Wraith]

Wait, you're arguing about automation in a chase sequence of all things??

 

 

Most decent platformers turn a chase sequence into a challange by giving you full control over it and putting obstacles in your way. Even if this wasn't a Sonic game I'd consider a chase sequence like this one boring.

[Tani Coyote]

That actually is a fair point. Crash Bandicoot is full of things where you not only need to keep an eye on the guy behind you, but holes, explosives, and all sorts of other nasty things that you will only have one or two seconds to jump over should they pop up.

Hopefully that's an early chase and later chases will be more difficult.

[FriendBot]

Didn't Frost say that the Guardian becomes more challenging later on in the level?

[Badnik Mechanic]

Here's one for you, it's in both the B-Roll and E3 build

 

Take a look at 1:53. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXgXF2t1Psc

 

Knuckles gets over 100 rings... but the ring counter doesn't reset. Then later on, Sonic & Amy get 110 rings and the ring counter is locked as well.

 

This is a clip from E3. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enrIqmYreMM

 

Same thing happens, the ring counter caps out at 110 rings for Sonic & Amy.

[Lady Soniko]

I'm guessing you pick up upgrades from hidden places that increase your health gradually the more you pick up.

[Tani Coyote]

Well it will make for an interesting challenge mode where players refuse to upgrade their health to show their ability to avoid getting massacred, if nothing else.

If there's an ability to upgrade skills, it makes me ponder if they can all be maxed out, or you must give up upgrading one to upgrade another.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Maybe it has something to do with the dynamic difficulty system they've implemented? You can grab more rings the more you suck at the game? I dunno.

[Blue Blood]

Maybe it has something to do with the dynamic difficulty system they've implemented? You can grab more rings the more you suck at the game? I dunno.

The "dynamic difficulty" only concerns your AI partner and what they do in the immediate battle where you're sucking. The idea that you can upgrade your rings and therefore your health too makes much more sense.

[Patticus]

I'm not sure I'm willing to pass any judgments on the game yet, but I will say that the visual style in the above gameplay vids, coupled with the level design, looks seriously reminiscent of Ratchet & Clank.

[SlickEvan]

So i've heard people say I personally dont really buy it. And it seems luckily the sanzaru the developers dont buy it either.

The games remembered throughtout sonics history have all seemed pretty fast to me and everyone else.

It was BRB who said sonic meant speed and joyus movement to them and I agree with them, sadly they fail to adequatley deliver either of these. To me anyway.

Like I said Sonic Boom seem like a Okay game in its own right.I even still want to play it. but as a sonic game its not up to par.

Lucky for them they seem to be trying to convince people it shouldnt be judged as a sonic game now and those people are eating it up.

A: Sonic and Speed do go hand in hand, but only to a certain point. But when it comes to the point that, if you mention Sonic gameplay, the only thing said about his gameplay is "Fast" That's a problem. Remember he started out as competition to Mario. Speed wasn't the main focus but they way you used your techniques to gain speed and change the way you platform. It was said somewhere that the levels were designed to make you keep playing and try to get faster and faster times, BY using your skills. While being a core aspect that doesn't mean that is a make or break. Sonic Adventure is relatively slow, but using the spindash and knowing the level makes you faster and faster. Sonic just isn't "fast". Boom speed wise, looks about on pace with Sonic's run speed in Sonic Adventure. Many people bring up this but I'm gonna do it again, Marble Zone, Labyrinth Zone, and other classic levels didn't even focus on speed. And this is the BASE of Sonic. Unlike say SA2 where ALL of the stages are speedy, Classic Sonic makes you slow down to platform. And even so, if your skillful the level can still become faster and faster. Sonic starting using speed as a major gameplay aspect in about Sonic 3 (not really) and Sonic Adventure 1 where they introduced Set Pieces and high speed spectacle. The Bomb section in Angel Island, Snowboarding, and the Mushroom Hill Boss all show this high speed on the go, wow! aspect of the franchise. In Sonic Adventure more than Sonic 3. But the core of Sonic doesn't emphasize speed as such a big aspect as the newer games. The more games made the less clever platforming was made and the more high speed gameplay was made. Not saying clever platforming made Sonic, I do realize speed WAS a piece of the cake but gameplay wise, in Sonic 1, 2, and 3 high speed bits were small and quick and lead you into the next section of the level. Or into a place where if you were going fast enough you could get to the higher route. Sonic's "core" was more of the assets that Sonic had at his disposal, and his cool factor. He could spin into a ball to defeat enemies AND roll into, used Rings as his own health type thing and didn't stay parallel with the other platformers of the day. While say, Mario you go to point A and B with little secrets, Sonic was more about exploring and using your roll and platforming antics to flow through levels. I'm not saying Boom is doing exactly this, but that speed shouldn't be as much as a hindrance as it's becoming. If a game becomes slow paced it's automatically criticized. Some realize that Sonic isn't all about speed but also platforming and exploration with using abilities to become more skillful and find new paths and goodies. But some can't get over the fact he's moving slower. I see if this speed was say, Lost World Jog slow but this is about SA1 speed. A little slower but Sa1 nonetheless, but it seems speed is something that it keeps turning around back to. I remember someone said you could stop and smell the roses in earlier games but in reality you couldn't because you were always on this track. While having a point A to B game means that there does have to be a track it doesn't have to be so small. In SA2 for example these stages were literally tracks. Small, Confined areas in which stopping doesn't mean anything because you'll always see that, "Oh, I might as well go forward" and Speed is part of this problem. The faster Sonic goes the harder it is to design stages. Say Boost Sonic. Putting him in Emerald Coast doesn't work because it's harder to make turns without drifting. Unless you make really big stages, that are long. But even if you make it long his Boost blast by about 10-20 seconds of whatever is there. So if you've heard of the Generations Adventure Mod. The creator had to open the levels up AND nerf the Boost to make it longer. Yeah the scenes nice, but if you're blasting by it what good does it do besides to look pretty. Now in a slower game like Adventure 2. You could make more open levels and it might be easier to design because of his slower speed and not only that but since moving doesn't take him past 10-20 seconds of level, levels could still be small but way more open and exploitative. Why isn't Adventure 2 like this though? Speed took the candle. While, I personally love SA2's stages, it's still based around this move as fast as possible because we're Sonic. Which makes for lesser challenge and challenges that come from quick desicion making rather than a clever platforming. Set pieces are no longer platforming challenges but quick segments where you must just go fast. I'm not saying these aren't fun or nice to look at but Speed just as much of a deterrent as it is fun to blaze through a level.

TL;DR Speed can hinder gameplay as much as it feels cool to do and the "core" wasn't really based around speed in the first place but rather platforming challenge around complex and expansive level design along with abilities when used skillfully that allow you to move fast and explore different pieces of the bigger level at hand.

I'm not saying Boost games are "lol Bewst Button and I'm flying through the level!" but that with this speed comes a level design that focuses on more of a reaction and quick reflex game rather than using your environment and abilities to traverse the levels faster and overcome more platforming based challenges.

B: This wasn't meant to be the "Traditional" Sonic game from the get go and they aren't trying to convince anyone but rather show them a different way that Sonic could be handled. When the Boost games came out and still somewhat now, they weren't/aren't considered "Traditional" and were also thought that developers were trying to pass this new gameplay as a Sonic game. Changing gameplay to be different isn't automatically "trying to be a Sonic game but failing" or "Trying to convince us this shouldn't be judged as a Sonic game." Because it could be just a genuine attempt at shaping Sonic into a new mold. They didn't say they were making the next main Sonic game. They said they're trying to take Sonic into a new direction, which SHOULDN'T bound them to the rules of Sonic. BUT they are kind enough (and smart enough) to keep some of the key aspects in it to keep it recognizable as Sonic but not instantly assumed to be the normal Sonic. They wanted to make a Sonic that you could still recognize as the icon but still notice to be not the same. Remember they said that they wanted it to be like "Hey that's Sonic! but there's something different about him?" Stephen said something along those lines before and I can see that's what they're attempting. See like the Boost. It can be classified as more reflex tester/Racing game. It has Sonic on it though and his traditional moves? Why isn't this the same case? Because people realized they weren't just slapping Sonic into something new and calling it Sonic just because but that they were actually trying to do something new. Doing something new =/= Not a Sonic game. We all want to take new spins on our old ideas sometimes, it may crash and burn or you may really like it but just because your taking a new spin on it, doesn't mean it's automatically not classified as what core it came from. You're just trying to make something different of something you've been doing for a while.

I hope you can understand that- because I lost track of thought too many times while typing that last paragraph, thing.

(btw this is a calm post. I know how easily something like this can be read and be assumed to be angry or upset but I assure this is a calm post)

EDIT: WOW, sorry for that wall of text. that was like wow... I probably could have summed that up better... : / sorry

[TheLaw34]

 platforming challenge around complex and expansive level design along with abilities when used skillfully that allow you to move fast and explore different pieces of the bigger level at hand.

 

EDIT: WOW, sorry for that wall of text. that was like wow... I probably could have summed that up better... : / sorry

 

Dont really have total confidence this response will cover eveything you said but wutever.

 

A:You were speaking like the classic games were the core of sonic. I dont think of that as sonic core just because its the first thing that came out. I think we are in agreement that sonic isnt just about litterally how fast sonic goes but it IS about giving sonic the feeling of being fast by using his abillities to go any where. Once again I really like how Rafei himself puts it. Sonic is about fluid "joyus movement" that gives a feeling a "speed"

 

And yes I agree just making the game give that feeling of speed and free movement by making the character go 100mph isnt smart and I always was waiting for them to try something else and get it better.

 

Anyway staying on topic you agreed sonics core has  "abilities when used skillfully allow you to move fast and explore different pieces of the level" before we get into traditional sonic games I will assert that boom doesnt do this well. there are ways to make combat feel fast and mirrors edge or jet set radio levels platforming give a better sense of speed than sonic boom while being around the same speed.  

 

Yes sonic boom is based around platforming challenged like alot of sonic games but you have to admit the sense of speed gained from doing them is no greater than any other generic platformer.

 

I never said just changing something made it not a sonic game. Sonic but I think no matter what they change they should hold onto what you agreed was the core because yes when you take that away it stops being a sonic game.

 

So from what we see the majority of the game "being the adventure segments" dont really feel like sonic game. But hey on the bright side maybe we just havent learned the trick to speed running them

[breakingspeed]

I assure you, it's not bad at all

I feel the same. I just really hope Sonic isn't boring or just because he has to learn to work with a team because he's a loner, he doesn't come off as a jerk.

 

Because of Sonic's snarky attitude it makes it hard for writers to get it right without making Sonic come off as unpleasing. I'm fine with Sonic learning to work with his team, character development is good for a story. Since this is a different universe Sonic isn't at the same level of friendship as Modern Sonic is with his friends. I also hope in the show that Sonic doesn't have to keep relearning he's better with a team and keeps trying to do everything himself. That would defeat the purpose of the whole game's story if he learned he is better with a team and forgets that in a lot of episodes.

A lot of the critiques for this game are a lot nicer than on Tumblr. Tumblr just tore the Wii U game apart.