Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Kuzu]

....I just don't know. Most likely not.

 

Its just frustrating seeing where Sega direction has been heading recently after creating two of the (subjectively) best 3D Sonic games in a long time. 

 

Welcome to every Sonic fan's life for the past 10 years.

[Junko]

Welcome to every Sonic fans life for the past 10 years.

a-and the Boost Era! Guys? I'm all alone in the Boost Era boat.

[KingIgort]

Look, as much I want to believe Boom will succeed, I can't let myself be disappointed like that again. At this point, I have no reason to believe this won't be a repeat of Lost World, with the people who like it (me included) being in a vast minority and always being reminded that they are in a vast minority every time the bloody game comes up in conversation.

 

Yeah... see how bitter I am? I just can't do that to myself again. Not again.

 

If people are annoying you because they're making you feel bad for enjoying something you should ignore those people.

 

At least, that's what I do when people try to "convince me" that Lost World is a bad game.

[Willsy]

I'm keeping my hype down for the game. Just in case.

 

While I did enjoy Lost World a bit, it was disappointing for me.

[Johnny Boy]

I'm keeping my hype down for the game. Just in case.

While I did enjoy Lost World a bit, it was disappointing for me.

Same here. But I'm still remaining optimistic the the guys at BRB will do a good job with this. But all the mixed press does put a bit of a damper of my emotions.

[Enesephus]

While I will admit that, in some ways, Lost World was a tad disappointing, I'm still remaining firmly in my seat on the hype train. I guess I just can't help it. I like what I like, and Rise of Lyric is looking like something I'll like a lot. Of course, I felt the same way about Lost World, but my main complaint with that game was the sheer amount of moments the game just kind of plays for you (far too many boosters that take away control. And really? Springs when we have parkour?), something I don't think will be a problem here. I'm not letting negative impressions keep me from getting this day one.

[SlickEvan]

I'm back and I never said, that because people compare it the games doesn't have actual flaws but rather that I see that a lot and it makes me mad. I still don't think you should let impressions few or many, good or bad, change how you feel about the game. Sure maybe take some notes. But really- Cancel your pre-orders? Don't Buy? It's a failure now? I still don't buy that not being a Sonic game doesn't influence people- but that's not what point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to say, sure complain about the flaws, but when someone post an impressions video or message- don't take it so (sorry for being rude) stupidly. Seriously like- Why?

 

It's more peoples reactions to the impressions that get me angry and then all of a sudden using my "Not a Sonic game" argument against me as if that was my combatant to peoples complaints with the actual mechanics in play. I never said because it's not Sonic, that means all peoples complaints are invalid. I said most impressions include those words and it frustrates me that they can't get it through their heads that it's not supposed to be a normal Sonic game.

 

My argument for the game glitches and flaws? Probably because it's alpha. "Why'd they show it if it was alpha?" probably because they wanted to show something to hook people and get them interested or at the very least, intrigued wanting to know more. It's like if it's not the Sonic complaint it's the gameplay complaint that it's overall clunky. It's not finished- and for not being finished, it's looking pretty solid. Things in this stage of development can still be dropped, added, fixed, or re-implemented in a different way. It's not like this is a complete demo or even beta version of the game. I can't argue about things that feel off or dumb in the viewers eyes but I can say that it's not like it's done. So hold your horses before rising up in riot, saying to stop even considering the game. It's like a force that's trying to keep the game from being unsuccessful and peoples hopes of a main Sonic game clouding their vision

 

AND WAIT- I AM NOT saying that people don't have valid complaints.

[Willsy]

I still have it pre-ordered, but it's just less of a priority for me at the moment. Since I've gotten it from Amazon UK, I don't mind waiting for several days for it to arrive. Chances are I'll be busy with another game anyway. November's a big time for game releases, and this year there's Far Cry 4, GTA V 8th Gen, and a lot of other titles.

 

There is also Shattered Crystal which I'm more than happy to download day 1, simply because I'm more confident with that version and Sanzaru have a pretty good track record. BRB are unproven which makes me very cautious of them. I know there is a guy from ND there, but this isn't ND. 

 

I don't know though, I'm just really sceptical of this. It can't be worse than Sonic 06 (I would be really surprised if it were), but that's not really saying much. So for now I'm still getting it, but I'd rather pay less and wait longer to get it. 

[Diogenes]

I still don't think you should let impressions few or many, good or bad, change how you feel about the game. Sure maybe take some notes. But really- Cancel your pre-orders? Don't Buy? It's a failure now?

What else are you supposed to use people's impressions for? If impressions are pretty consistently negative, that's a pretty good sign (not absolute proof, granted, but still a pretty good sign) that the game might be bad. And if the game's going to be bad, it's in your best interest not to buy it.

It's more peoples reactions to the impressions that get me angry and then all of a sudden using my "Not a Sonic game" argument against me as if that was my combatant to peoples complaints with the actual mechanics in play. I never said because it's not Sonic, that means all peoples complaints are invalid. I said most impressions include those words and it frustrates me that they can't get it through their heads that it's not supposed to be a normal Sonic game.

Even if it's not a "normal" Sonic game, it's still A Sonic game, and a Sonic game should, presumably, have qualities that appeal to Sonic fans. Not every game has to be exactly the same, it's okay to have spinoffs that play differently, but if people come away with a strong impression that it isn't a Sonic game, something's gone wrong.

"Why'd they show it if it was alpha?" probably because they wanted to show something to hook people and get them interested or at the very least, intrigued wanting to know more.

Doesn't work so well when the product is subpar.

It's like if it's not the Sonic complaint it's the gameplay complaint that it's overall clunky. It's not finished- and for not being finished, it's looking pretty solid. Things in this stage of development can still be dropped, added, fixed, or re-implemented in a different way.

I dunno man, time seems pretty short. Some things are going to change, sure, but they really can't afford to make many huge changes at this point. If they're going to make their deadline, they need to keep working with what they've got, so a lot of things are basically set in stone.

So hold your horses before rising up in riot, saying to stop even considering the game.

So, what, they show off trailers and demos to entice players, but no one's allowed to be turned off by them? Just because of things that might change, that we have no way of actually knowing about? If you want to keep an open mind and hope the wrinkles will be ironed out, that's your right. But other people are fully within their rights to say "this game doesn't look very good right now. I can't trust that it will be good in the future. So at this point I will choose not to support it".

[TheLaw34]

Hey, I for one, wanna see more Boom games. "used to make Sonic games" Hah, I laugh at this. What is a dang Sonic game. 

 

I'm not saying love it- but it'd be really nice on the eyes if I didn't see comparisons to normal sonic left and right. 

 

Note: this isn't just to you- but everyone

 

I forgot what else I was gonna say... well... dang... 

 

While this may be a bit late Just gonna say what I meant to type was a good sonic game and some other stuff that i forgot .

Though this may be just as bad what I mean simply is I hope we arent stuck to this jak+werehog gameplay style for the entirety of the boom franchise.

 

Why? Cause many people dont like it ,and I dont want to hear any of that "its not finished yet" crap because because saying it might be good later will never be an arguement worth listening to.

 

I dont want this to be the designated boom series gameplay, I want it to be changed and modified as much as the main series sonic games are because it would suck if they keep making games that appeal to so few just because its what they started with.

 

As I've said before, I really dont care if this plays like a sonic game or not because what it comes down to is people arent impressed.

They dont come out of the sega booth and tell their friend they need to go play sonic boom. They come out and say it wasnt to bad or they had fun with it but the only reason anyone would think of it as a must play is because sonics face on it.

 

If instead of coming of as a generic blah blah blah people could actually be interested or impressed when seeing it, I would'nt care if this game were a shooter. 

 

Also once again whether they are trying to make a normal sonic or not doesnt matter. If you think you will be convincing any average gamer that sonic games shouldnt have speed your going to fail. If you think everyone should just accept this is a totally different game but just with sonics face slapped on it you're wrong. You can like it as much as you want, but dont go around pretending it somehow a bad complaint that people arent getting what they came for.

[sonfan1984]

I think criticism this early on is a good thing honesty so that way developers know what to improve, etc unlike most people who usually previews Sonic's games in the past talk about how fun it is and they don't talk about the flaws when they play the demo but then they slam the game later when they review the full version. I'm not one to judge the whole game entirely by an alpha E3 demo when they've said there's a whole lot more to the game to show off and I'm hoping they're listening to feedback both good and bad.

[The Deleter]

NO.

 

If the Boom series ever continues farther than one console game, they should never change up the gameplay. Doing such a thing has demolished SEGA!Sonic's series as a whole, and is overall bad for it's reputation. If the games aren't met well, fine, cancel the series and keep to the TV show. But if it is even remotely successful, and clearly has a fanbase who enjoys such a thing, then BRB should stick to the formula as hard as they can. I'm not saying the games can't be improved upon, but the overall gameplay formula must remain intact if this series want to keep a shred of respect from it's fans.

 

Don't go down the ST road, BRB. Stay consistent, and keep your own identity. That is the only way to maintain a stable following.

[Badnik Mechanic]

, they should never change up the gameplay. Doing such a thing has demolished SEGA!Sonic's series as a whole, 

 

There is a difference here.

 

When Generations came out, Sonic Team were clearly on the right path/had an idea that they knew what they were doing.

 

BRB sorry to say seem to be stuck in an era everybody has moved on from.

[Tails spin]

Metroidvania is the way to go.:-)

[Wraith]

It really depends on the situation when it comes to changing up gameplay in a series. There are some cases when it's needed when what you're doing in the present clearly isn't working. I'm not saying Sonic Boom falls under that category(yet), but changing up gameplay isn't always a terrible idea.

[Nepenthe]

There is a difference here.

 

When Generations came out, Sonic Team were clearly on the right path/had an idea that they knew what they were doing.

 

BRB sorry to say seem to be stuck in an era everybody has moved on from.

 

I want to add onto this and bring up the fact that there are things preventing even Sonic Team from being a capable developer regardless of how consistent in design they are. It's not as if there wasn't variable quality all along the Boost era, nor is it right to say that people weren't excited when they ditched everything about the Boost games and tried to tackle Parkour in the first place.

 

Consistency is simply not a virtue. Good programming and engaging design is. Give me a main line Sonic game that's a CoD rip-off and I'll be happy if it's good.

[Willsy]

At this point, it's not really the fact that it's an action brawler that is worrying people, it's that it doesn't look like anything special from the demo. Those stages in the demo look alright but nothing special, though hopefully things will get more interesting later on in the game.

[Octarine]

The game doesn't look that great, but I'm still interested enough in seeing a heavier focus on story and characters that I'll probably pick it up anyway (eventually, at least) as long as it's not a total '06-level disaster. Whether the 3DS version and/or the cartoon are any good might be a bigger factor than anything, since I'm kind of a completionist with these things.

 

The only thing that might be a game-breaker for me is that horrible jittery camera in the speed sections. Not that the camera seems that great anywhere, but just watching video of that speed level makes me a little sick.

[The Deleter]

There is a difference here.

 

When Generations came out, Sonic Team were clearly on the right path/had an idea that they knew what they were doing.

 

BRB sorry to say seem to be stuck in an era everybody has moved on from.

If people really have moved on from that era, then games like Knack and R&C wouldn't be selling millions still.

 

Sonic Team had a perfectly good formula in the classic era. They didn't need hard-as-nails difficulty, they didn't need complex movesets, they did their own thing, and people loved them for it. But after the Adventure games came out, they started changing up the gameplay, most of the time in favor of the fan feedback. Fans either became apathetic for the quality of the series, became constant halbringers of doom, or flat up left because of it. As a result, Sonic Team now has a fanbase that is never satisfied with one thing, with every individual having their own opinion on what Sonic should "really" be about.

 

Sonic Boom, like it or not, is setting out to push the reset button for Sonic. BRB have stated that they are creating the series to form a new identity that newer fans can come to and enjoy. If they are going to abandon such an identity with every sequential game in the same vein of the main series, what is the point of creating the new identity in the first place?

[SlickEvan]

Sorry I'm gonna straw pull, but:

 

It is not A Sonic game. It is not A Sonic game. It's not supposed to be a Sonic game. They wanted to take it into a new direction. How many times and how many ways am I going to have to explain that, if you hold yourself to these guidelines and restrictions, then what was- the point- of making an entire new branch of Sonic. They could have made a new gameplay style, character designs, and add a story with substance in the main line Sonic if they wanted to make just another Sonic game. What is the point of it, if you're going to make another "Sonic" game. Put lots of money, a new dev team, a cartoon, and lots of time just to make another Sonic game. That's like slapping the Boom designs over say- what was received well enough- Generations. Everything in the games story could probably be told with a different gameplay style (not that I want that) so why didn't they do that instead? Because they wanted to make a new branch with new fresh gameplay ideas. It doesn't need to be molded into a normal Sonic game. Again- why is this so hard to understand?

 

Okay I take that back, I wont straw pick. Lemme read some more.

 

Okay I skim read.

 

1. Impressions: Sure you use impressions to judge how you will overall like the product but telling people to: "Stop their pre-orders" is a bit much don't you think? Okay, fine, cancel your pre-orders what do I care- I'm just saying it's like an overall "Welp- it's over guys drop your hopes stop being excited- this isn't what you want- lets move on." Like seriously stop that. Yes, you do have the right to be mad or point out flaws but making it out to be an overall "Woah no guys- it's over- new 06!" Is a bit much, dickish, and really not cool.

 

2. Your reply to my Alpha comment: Yes subpar to some maybe. But it's still just a sliver of what's actually in store but people are making it out to be the whole experience as if that's what it'll be like throughout the whole thing. This is different from normal Sonic games (heh, different) where the whole game is the same with different gimmicks throughout. From what I've heard of these types of games, it's different experiences to be had throughout the game.

 

3. Short time till release: Hey- they could always delay it- but the time given to them seems pretty far and wide. I can probably buckle down and make something in that amount of time, so if I could do it- then a full team of pro's can probably do it 10x as well.

 

4. Holding your horses reply: I'm not saying you can't be turned off- but really- I don't see many complaints that range past generic or clunky- both of which can INDEED be changed. Generic we don't even know about yet because the levels we've seen in trailer and playthoughs all seem to be the factory type place or the pit. Both of which are generic but don't span outside of 2 of however many levels there are. Clunkyness can be tweaked and tuned also but some might find it clunky while others may not. So some of it is the dev team and some of it is how the viewer likes their games.

 

Because really each impressions seems to be a rehash of the last either mentioning- clunky or not normal sonic. It's always "Moves are clunky- not your Normal Sonic- I wouldn't expect a brawler- this is really different-" Do you see what I'm saying. That is indeed a reason to be turned away but ALSO people are taking it as this is the final product on a platter, everything will be concrete. 5 or less months they have right? That's a lot of time to fix things. But some people will never get over the fact that this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game and will continue to point things out that were purposely put into the game and use it against the game because normal Sonic doesn't have those things. 

 

Fine don't like it- but don't tell people it's an automatic bomb and to not buy it. And please stop using Sonic as the frame this game should fit into because that's never what they were aiming for and because this IS SUPPOSED TO BE different. If you make a picture that's supposed to be different and new don't make the same picture with different colors and call it different.

 

EDIT: @Nepenthe: You know that's a hyperbole bigger than this planet. A CoD rip-off sure you may like it if it's fun but that's just- you know what.. nevermind

[Enesephus]

At this point, it's not really the fact that it's an action brawler that is worrying people, it's that it doesn't look like anything special from the demo. Those stages in the demo look alright but nothing special, though hopefully things will get more interesting later on in the game.

Eh, in my opinion, most games don't really get awesome until after after the first few levels anyway. And even if the core gameplay isn't anything super special, good controls and writing can still save it. I think a good difficulty curve helps too (some have complained the game looks too simple or easy, but I think BRB just wants to avoid making a game that spikes in difficulty in the second or third level).

 

I still think this game looks more like something special than Shattered Crystal anyway.

[Nepenthe]

If people really have moved on from that era, then games like Knack and R&C wouldn't be selling millions still.

 

Sonic Team had a perfectly good formula in the classic era. They didn't need hard-as-nails difficulty, they didn't need complex movesets, they did their own thing, and people loved them for it. But after the Adventure games came out, they started changing up the gameplay, most of the time in favor of the fan feedback. Fans either became apathetic for the quality of the series, became constant halbringers of doom, or flat up left because of it. As a result, Sonic Team now has a fanbase that is never satisfied with one thing, with every individual having their own opinion on what Sonic should "really" be about.

 

Sonic Boom, like it or not, is setting out to push the reset button for Sonic. BRB have stated that they are creating the series to form a new identity that newer fans can come to and enjoy. If they are going to abandon such an identity with every sequential game in the same vein of the main series, what is the point of creating the new identity in the first place?

 

If this game becomes an unmitigated disaster, it would be silly to keep the same design concepts and balance schemes. But cancelling the series outright is out of the question because Sega is undoubtedly banking on this being a long-term haul. If the show is going to have two seasons for instance, even that's going to call for several more months of production to occur and there will be a dead space of no content, meaning the lack of sequel games becomes an even bigger elephant in the room.

 

Now, I personally don't mind any of the ideas in the game itself: brawling, adventuring, puzzle-solving, linear speed sections. I still have fun with these things. Subsequently, I still think you can make a good game out of the basic ideas, but that may involve changing up, say, how the combat works, how speed is better represented in the overall design, making the characters swifter, and so on and so forth. And that's assuming this game is going to be mediocre on the basis of its design merits; Everything right now may simply be a result of lacking polish and optimization. We don't really know, but I don't think the ideas on display here are so freaking outdated that BRB can't possibly do anything with them in a modern gaming sphere, or that we need to basically make another Generations or something. But regardless, changes may need to be made, but it's irrational for both sides to suggest that any changes being made means ditching everything about the first game.

 

It is not A Sonic game. It is not A Sonic game. It's not supposed to be a Sonic game. They wanted to take it into a new direction. How many times and how many ways am I going to have to explain that, if you hold yourself to these guidelines and restrictions, then what was- the point- of making an entire new branch of Sonic. 

It is a Sonic franchise spin-off. It is, for all intents and purposes, a Sonic game, as much as the Storybook games were Sonic games. While I am personally accepting of any changes it makes based on the parameters defined about how Boom is supposed to function, that doesn't mean that it shares no ties whatsoever and thus expectations cannot be held about the very basics of what it's supposed to encompass. You cannot keep repeating this as a rebuttal to every problem people have with the game on a design level unless you believe we're supposed to operate under the belief that the only thing it needs to share are, like, the characters or something.

 

@Nepenthe: You know that's a hyperbole bigger than this planet. A CoD rip-off sure you may like it if it's fun but that's just- you know what.. nevermind

 

Not for me. Excusing the fact that I like CoD, I've lived and played through every single Sonic era and change this series has had to throw at me and survived. I am the last person who actually gives a shit when it comes to consistency in the vain of just recycling the same game design over and over again, especially if that comes at the cost of games that don't interest me.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Nepenthe

[TheLaw34]

Sorry I'm gonna straw pull, but:

 

It is not A Sonic game. It is not A Sonic game. It's not supposed to be a Sonic game. They wanted to take it into a new direction. How many times and how many ways am I going to have to explain that,

Explain? 

No, what you are doing is asserting, and if only a handful of people accept you're assertion then dont expect people to stop using it in their arguements. Stop making ti sound as if what people want is a carbon clone of the last couple sonic games released. What we are saying is that there are a few elements that must be present in the sonic fanchise.

 

Also the things you say about this is finaql and it might get better mean nothing. People saw a piece of the game and they will judge the game based upon it because speaking about what could happen is pointless.

[Willsy]

I don't mind having something different if it's executed properly. That's why I was disappointed with Lost World, some of the execution fell flat on it's face IMO. The controls, the 2D, the gimmick stages, the ending, etc.

If Boom is executed right, chances are I'll enjoy it. If it's not.....eh, chances are I won't. I'll admit that the idea of an action adventure Sonic game sounds good, but what's almost always a problem in Sonic is the execution of those ideas. And these failures in execution have happened so many times in this franchise now that it gets annoying and sometimes borderline frustrating.

[Enesephus]

Explain? 

No, what you are doing is asserting, and if only a handful of people accept you're assertion then dont expect people to stop using it in their arguements. Stop making ti sound as if what people want is a carbon clone of the last couple sonic games released. What we are saying is that there are a few elements that must be present in the sonic fanchise.

 

Also the things you say about this is finaql and it might get better mean nothing. People saw a piece of the game and they will judge the game based upon it because speaking about what could happen is pointless.

And those elements are? This fanbase is so shattered that very few can really agree on what those would be, except perhaps speed, rings and awesome music, all of which are present here (well, except maybe the music, which I personally think is fine, just maybe not amazing).