Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Diogenes]

It is not A Sonic game. It is not A Sonic game. It's not supposed to be a Sonic game.

"Sonic Boom is not a Sonic game" -An argument that I am supposed to take seriously.

Really, come on. I understand, fully, that this is not supposed to be identical to the Sonics that have come before. But if it's not a Sonic game at all, why is Sonic in it? Why Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman? Why rings, why springs, why homing attacks and spin dashes? There is no way to argue that they are not trying to take advantage of Sonic's existing identity. There is a reason this game has Sonic and co instead of a bunch of new characters. It is trying to appeal to existing Sonic fans.

1. Impressions: Sure you use impressions to judge how you will overall like the product but telling people to: "Stop their pre-orders" is a bit much don't you think?

No. Not if they honestly think the game is bad. What are they supposed to say? "I think this is terrible but you should still buy it"?

2. Your reply to my Alpha comment: Yes subpar to some maybe. But it's still just a sliver of what's actually in store but people are making it out to be the whole experience as if that's what it'll be like throughout the whole thing.

It almost certainly will be what it's like throughout the whole thing. They're not likely to introduce wildly different gameplay styles from what we've seen, just variations on the existing mechanics, new level gimmicks, new enemies, maybe some new moves. But not anything that's going to fundamentally change how it plays.

And, y'know, if I could just trust that the parts they aren't showing are great, why would they need to show anything in the first place?

3. Short time till release: Hey- they could always delay it- but the time given to them seems pretty far and wide. I can probably buckle down and make something in that amount of time, so if I could do it- then a full team of pro's can probably do it 10x as well.

Dude you do not shit out almost an entirely new game of professional quality and this scale in 5 months. It is fundamentally impossible. There are things that simply cannot be done at this point. And even if they could, you're telling us to trust nothing but unsubstantiated possibilities.

4. Holding your horses reply: I'm not saying you can't be turned off- but really- I don't see many complaints that range past generic or clunky- both of which can INDEED be changed.

Not likely. The problem isn't just a matter of tweaking a few values. It's fundamental choices that they've made, things that the entire rest of the game has been designed around.

That is indeed a reason to be turned away but ALSO people are taking it as this is the final product on a platter, everything will be concrete. 5 or less months they have right? That's a lot of time to fix things.

So what am I supposed to judge the game on? I can't judge the game based on the trailers or the demo, because it's not the full game (even though I doubt you would even think to hold someone who likes how the game looks to that absurd requirement). So I am supposed to judge it on...literally nothing? Just the hope you have that the game will be better?

But some people will never get over the fact that this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game and will continue to point things out that were purposely put into the game and use it against the game because normal Sonic doesn't have those things.

Things that were purposely put in the game can still be shit.

Fine don't like it- but don't tell people it's an automatic bomb and to not buy it.

Would you say the same to people saying it's going to be great and they should buy it? I doubt it.

And please stop using Sonic as the frame this game should fit into

I didn't force it into the role of being a Sonic game. Sega did.

If you make a picture that's supposed to be different and new don't make the same picture with different colors and call it different.

It's almost like, if they wanted to make a completely different kind of game from Sonic, they shouldn't have made a game about Sonic?

[SlickEvan]

Explain? 

No, what you are doing is asserting, and if only a handful of people accept you're assertion then dont expect people to stop using it in their arguements. Stop making ti sound as if what people want is a carbon clone of the last couple sonic games released. What we are saying is that there are a few elements that must be present in the sonic fanchise.

 

Also the things you say about this is finaql and it might get better mean nothing. People saw a piece of the game and they will judge the game based upon it because speaking about what could happen is pointless.

 

Woah, woah wait- I never said people want a carbon copy or hinted at it. But people think that it should it into the "norm" for a Sonic game. 

 

Also it's not pointless to speak about what could happen, that's a main base of discussion. That's like saying it's pointless to talk about the future. It's a part of discussion.

 

Don't take it as I'm trying to be this game's body guard but I FEEL as if some peoples complaint's are based on an unfinished product. Like tasting a meal before it's ready to be eaten and saying "it's not a well composed dish-" Well let me put it together then!...

 

Also, people

do want a carbon copy (not literally mind you) but they want games that build off the last base, so people indeed do want "copies" it's been discussed quite a few times in this very topic and a lot recently on this forum as a whole.

 

EDIT: At Dio: Give me a few to read that but do you not understand what I mean by it doesn't have to fit into the same mold. IT CAN STILL HAVE SONIC AND BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THATS THE WHOLE POINT.

[Diogenes]

Don't take it as I'm trying to be this game's body guard but I FEEL as if some peoples complaint's are based on an unfinished product.

Any feelings that anyone has on this are based on an unfinished product, because the product is unfinished.

Like tasting a meal before it's ready to be eaten and saying "it's not a well composed dish-" Well let me put it together then!...

Or like watching someone make a cake, realizing that they've replaced the eggs with eggplants and the flour with flowers, and being pretty sure it's not actually going to turn out to be a delicious cake regardless of what they add next.

EDIT: At Dio: Give me a few to read that but do you not understand what I mean by it doesn't have to fit into the same mold. IT CAN STILL HAVE SONIC AND BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THATS THE WHOLE POINT.

And I don't disagree with that in theory. You can do different things while still feeling "Sonic". But not everything that you can do, will feel "Sonic". And quite a lot of people feel that this game doesn't feel "Sonic", but you seem intent on shouting them all down, as if there's nothing that doesn't feel "Sonic".

[Mauro Fonseca]

If it wanted to be something different it should've been more different. You know, different enough to not step on the mainline's toes instead of feeling like a knockoff. Like how Mario Kart is different from the Mario platformers in that it's not a platformer.

[TheLaw34]

And those elements are? This fanbase is so shattered that very few can really agree on what those would be, except perhaps speed, rings and awesome music, all of which are present here (well, except maybe the music, which I personally think is fine, just maybe not amazing).

Oh this game has speed? where in the tiny 1 minute transition from place to place in a thirty minute stage. No this game doesnt have speed it has speed minigames. The music also fails.

But them rings right. You can call the fanbase as shattered as you want but they are atleast together enough that the fact that this doesnt feel like a sonic game to them is coming through clearly.

 

Don't take it as I'm trying to be this game's body guard but I FEEL as if some peoples complaint's are based on an unfinished product. Like tasting a meal before it's ready to be eaten and saying "it's not a well composed dish-" Well let me put it together then!...

 

Also, people

do want a carbon copy (not literally mind you) but they want games that build off the last base, so people indeed do want "copies" it's been discussed quite a few times in this very topic and a lot recently on this forum as a whole.

Thier complaints are based on an unfinished product. The problem here is you are trying to act as if that is somehow a problem or a reason that the complaints are any less valid.

 

What you described sounds nothing like a copy it sounds like something similar sure but say that the majority of people here are demanding a copy of generations just because they think elements from that game would be good in this one is wrong.

[Enesephus]

It's almost like, if they wanted to make a completely different kind of game from Sonic, they shouldn't have made a game about Sonic? 

 

Some of us are more likely to buy a game if it has Sonic in it because we love the character and may love a certain genre, even if the game isn't very "Sonic-y" after all. As long as it's fun, I'll still like it because Sonic's in it.

No this game doesnt have speed it has speed minigames. 

Eh, to me, speed's speed. Even outside the speed sections I still think the game looks faster than Jak and Daxter, if not by a lot (I make all these Naughty Dog references not so much because Bob Rafei is working on this game, but because I have a small reference pool).

[Diogenes]

Some of us are more likely to buy a game if it has Sonic in it because we love the character and may love a certain genre, even if the game isn't very "Sonic-y" after all. As long as it's fun, I'll still like it because Sonic's in it.

And if that's all that it takes to satisfy you, then fine. But some people require more than "Sonic is in it" for a thing to feel Sonicy.

[SlickEvan]

Any feelings that anyone has on this are based on an unfinished product, because the product is unfinished.

Or like watching someone make a cake, realizing that they've replaced the eggs with eggplants and the flour with flowers, and being pretty sure it's not actually going to turn out to be a delicious cake regardless of what they add next.

And I don't disagree with that in theory. You can do different things while still feeling "Sonic". But not everything that you can do, will feel "Sonic". And quite a lot of people feel that this game doesn't feel "Sonic", but you seem intent on shouting them all down, as if there's nothing that doesn't feel "Sonic".

 

And you got me there. All I wanted is a well constructed defense, which you gave. I still stand by the fact that this doesn't need to FEEL like "Sonic" because I guess I just don't even know what Sonic is.

 

EDIT: Okay maybe it does- but still I feel there a bigger offenses then this and this actually is pretty in-tune with my personal perception of Sonic. I always felt Sonic didn't need an in-game directed showcase of his speed if the cutscenes and game moments did a good enough job at showing. I'd rather control my Sonic and have it feel good (I'm not saying Boom does this because I haven't played it)

[KingIgort]

If it wanted to be something different it should've been more different. You know, different enough to not step on the mainline's toes instead of feeling like a knockoff. Like how Mario Kart is different from the Mario platformers in that it's not a platformer.

 

This is a really awful example. Partly because Sonic Boom is not trying to be that different, in so far as it's still an action game.

[Nepenthe]

And you got me there. All I wanted is a well constructed defense, which you gave. I still stand by the fact that this doesn't need to FEEL like "Sonic" because I guess I just don't even know what Sonic is.

 

So that exaggerated idea I had of plastering Sonic all over a CoD style game isn't so exaggerated anymore.

I mean, I don't personally believe there's such a wide differentiation in opinion that people cannot pin down some general thoughts about what Sonic is supposed to feel like. For one, if it's not swift-feeling to most people who have played it, we can easily say that most people want a faster-feeling game, and subsequently this desire is derived from the fact that people expect Sonic to be fast.

 

Just because there are differing schools of thought about Sonic doesn't mean we should just throw our hands up in the air.

[JezMM]

You know what the sad thing really is about the whole thing of "we're reinventing Sonic for a new age".

 

Apparently reinventing means minimising what made Sonic unique, and emphasising typical generic platformy brawley gameplay like every other kids action game is doing.

 

I'm not necessarily saying that I'm like, blaming SEGA and BRB, pointing fingers and saying they're taking the easy way out by trying to appeal to "the kids" this way, maybe it is the case that these sorta games just genuinely sell better but... yeah it's sad.

 

 

Like, what makes vanilla Sonic special?  Whether it's the coveted classic physics design, or even the modern boost gameplay, what makes Sonic special is its the only platformer series where speed is an integral part of the experience.  No other platformer series goes at the pace Sonic does.

 

"It's a platformer, but super fast" sounds like something unique in of itself, ready to provide all sorts of new things.

 

What do we have with Sonic Boom?

 

"It's a brawler with platforming, but with co-op and switchable characters, and lassoos"... doesn't quite have that same something.  They're gimmicks that have been done before in a myraid of different ways.  This combination is unique but, it's a combination of stuff that's been done before.

 

 

 

I dunno.

[SlickEvan]

So that exaggerated idea I had of plastering Sonic all over a CoD style game isn't so exaggerated anymore.

I mean, I don't personally believe there's such a wide differentiation in opinion that people cannot pin down some general thoughts about what Sonic is supposed to feel like. For one, if it's not swift-feeling to most people who have played it, we can easily say that most people want a faster-feeling game, and subsequently this desire is derived from the fact that people expect Sonic to be fast.

 

Just because there are differing schools of thought about Sonic doesn't mean we should just throw our hands up in the air.

 

Edited my post, before I saw your post. I didn't mean it as it can be anything.

[KingIgort]

You know what the sad thing really is about the whole thing of "we're reinventing Sonic for a new age".

 

Apparently reinventing means minimising what made Sonic unique, and emphasising typical generic platformy brawley gameplay like every other kids action game is doing.

 

Completely ignoring all the stuff they've done with the characters, which is what I think that sort of PR "reinventing" speak was referring to.

[JezMM]

Completely ignoring all the stuff they've done with the characters, which is what I think that sort of PR "reinventing" speak was referring to.

 

I'm talking pure gameplay here.  I have no issues with the character redesigns whatsoever, they're charming in their own way.  In fact the way the characters are being handled is nothing short of exceptional compared to recent main Sonic games, and BRB have a bunch of my respect for it.

[Diogenes]

I always felt Sonic didn't need an in-game directed showcase of his speed if the cutscenes and game moments did a good enough job at showing. I'd rather control my Sonic and have it feel good

That's a false dichotomy.

This is a really awful example. Partly because Sonic Boom is not trying to be that different, in so far as it's still an action game.

I think that's kind of the point. With Mario Kart, it's a game in a genre that's fundamentally removed from Mario's usual platforming, so no one expects it to replicate it. But with Boom being so much closer to the main series, it naturally invites more comparisons and there are more ways that it could've been closer.

[Enesephus]

And if that's all that it takes to satisfy you, then fine. But some people require more than "Sonic is in it" for a thing to feel Sonicy.

I may not have worded that post the best. The game does still have to have some of what I think of as "Sonic elements" for me to like it, and you couldn't pay me to play a Sonic FPS or anything like that. However, you and I clearly have a different idea of how "present" those elements need to be to enjoy a Sonic game, and that's fine.

[KingIgort]

I'm talking pure gameplay here. 

 

Yeah, I know. I was trying to point out how I think you've misconstrued what they were referring to when they said they were reinventing Sonic. I believe (though I could be wrong) they were talking about the characters themselves.

 

I think that's kind of the point. With Mario Kart, it's a game in a genre that's fundamentally removed from Mario's usual platforming, so no one expects it to replicate it. But with Boom being so much closer to the main series, it naturally invites more comparisons and there are more ways that it could've been closer.

 

My point is I don't think Boom's trying to be that different. I have a feeling I've wandered into the middle of a conversation and am assuming what you guys are discussing though.

[Mauro Fonseca]

We know Boom isn't trying to be that different. That's a flaw in and of itself though, in that if it's wanting to be judged on the standards of Sonic, then it's going to be judged on the standards of Sonic. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Take Wario Land. It's also a platformer, but has a new name, new character, and new focus of gameplay (nevermind the fact it's good) while keeping the Mario roots. Or Yoshi's Island. Different name, different playable character, different art style, different gameplay. Donkey Kong Country, different name, different characters, different art style, different gameplay.

 

Sonic Boom. Same name used for a lot of Sonic stuff already, same characters, roughly same art style, gameplay with knock-off boost levels and Adventure levels. It's very clearly not trying to be different pretty much almost at all except for the shoving of the enerbeam, so it's obviously going to be judged for what it's positing itself as.

 

See also: Sonic "We're a classic-style game except not. Plus the ardent defenders will say our bugs are fine because we're not trying to be like Sonic 3 despite all our levels and enemies being taken from the early games in a specific attempt at coasting from their perceived quality" 4.

[KingIgort]

We know Boom isn't trying to be that different. That's a flaw in and of itself though, in that if it's wanting to be judged on the standards of Sonic, then it's going to be judged on the standards of Sonic. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Yeah, I've clearly wandered into a different conversation than I thought because I am baffled what you're even trying to say.

[Kuzu]

I feel like this entire debate has boiled down to the fans who don't give a shit and just want a good Sonic game, versus the fans who want a good Sonic game. 

 

 

For further clarification, people feel alienated that Sonic Boom doesn't do enough to feel like it's apart of the Sonic series, namely opting for more generic beat'em segments and open environments that you see in most PS2 era platformers. This is versus the people who care more about just wanting a good game to play, and don't really mind the changes.

 

Its kind of hard to reach a conclusion here, because not every fan wants the same thing out of a Sonic game and some prioritize some aspects over others. 

 

 

At this point, I'm really apart of the camp with Nepenthe tho. I've been in the series for too long and I've grown to just stop caring about what feels like Sonic and what doesn't and just want a good game. The problem with Boom however is that it's shaping up to be neither a good game in its own right, as well not even a good "Sonic" game, so at that point, what's left?

[TheLaw34]

Yeah, I've clearly wandered into a different conversation than I thought because I am baffled what you're even trying to say.

Hes  saying the game isnt much different from a regular sonic game. Therefore people are going to be judging it like a normal sonic game and as a sonic game it isnt very good.

Then something about cake but I think he might be lying. If I have a cake then why wouldnt I eat it?

 

I feel like this entire debate has boiled down to the fans who don't give a shit and just want a good Sonic game, versus the fans who want a good Sonic game. 

 

 

Dont forget than fans who realize we arent getting either. Seriously though I would adore a good sonic game I would be more than happy with a good sonic game but all we are getting is sonic boom.

 

#Edited before you adding to yours... unless that was already there and im goin crazy

[KingIgort]

Hes  saying the game isnt much different from a regular sonic game. Therefore people are going to be judging it like a normal sonic game and as a sonic game it isnt very good.

 

Well, to each their own then. Personally I think this looks better than a fair chunk of Sonic games that have come out in the Blue Blur's 23 year history.

[UltDevilDoom]

Sonic Boom looks good so far. Hope is there.

[Dizcrybe]

If people are annoying you because they're making you feel bad for enjoying something you should ignore those people.

 

At least, that's what I do when people try to "convince me" that Lost World is a bad game.

 

Believe me, I wish it was that easy.

[KingIgort]

Believe me, I wish it was that easy.

 

It is absolutely that easy. No one has the right to make you feel bad because you enjoy something. You are not hurting anybody by enjoying a video game. If there is anyone out there that finds pleasure in belittling your opinion because they think it is wrong those people are worthless.