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Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

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If this game becomes an unmitigated disaster, it would be silly to keep the same design concepts and balance schemes. But cancelling the series outright is out of the question because Sega is undoubtedly banking on this being a long-term haul. If the show is going to have two seasons for instance, even that's going to call for several more months of production to occur and there will be a dead space of no content, meaning the lack of sequel games becomes an even bigger elephant in the room. 

Actually, it probably wouldn't. The game may have taken quite the budget to make, but once formulas like this are created, they are as cheap as anything to carry over into another game. It's the reason why Insomniac can pump out a R&C title nearly every year. Even if the first game didn't make that much money, the gross profit from the second game would be enough to break even. Far more cheap to create than completely overhauling the gameplay into a different design.

 

Though if it becomes so much of a disaster, I could see them ditching it. A show can run on it's own without tie-ins, from what I've observed.

 

Now, I personally don't mind any of the ideas in the game itself: brawling, adventuring, puzzle-solving, linear speed sections. I still have fun with these things. Subsequently, I still think you can make a good game out of the basic ideas, but that may involve changing up, say, how the combat works, how speed is better represented in the overall design, making the characters swifter, and so on and so forth. And that's assuming this game is going to be mediocre on the basis of its design merits; Everything right now may simply be a result of lacking polish and optimization. We don't really know, but I don't think the ideas on display here are so freaking outdated that BRB can't possibly do anything with them in a modern gaming sphere, or that we need to basically make another Generations or something. But regardless, changes may need to be made, but it's irrational for both sides to suggest that any changes being made means ditching everything about the first game.

 

Oh, I'm definitely open to updates such as making the characters swifter. Such things I would expect from a sequel, though, not the first game. Changes to the core gameplay, though, such as making the stages more speed centric rather than not, I'd say no. This game is trying to make it's own identity, so you have to respect what it's trying to accomplish. The main levels may have ditched the arcade-y sensation of speed, but I feel that it was a fair trade off, as slower levels are far more immersive than stages that blow by you. That is what I feel these levels are attempting to accomplish, creating an immersion factor that backs up the experience rather than the replayability.

 

Some may enjoy replayability more than immersion, especially among the Sonic fanbase, but I, and many other gamers, value the latter far more. Change the purpose of the main levels, and you change the main appeal of them. While some might be attracted, others will be repelled, and as a result, will create two different fanbases that BRB would have to cater to. And, as seen in the Sonic Team games, that's no good.

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At this point, I'm really apart of the camp with Nepenthe tho. I've been in the series for too long and I've grown to just stop caring about what feels like Sonic and what doesn't and just want a good game. The problem with Boom however is that it's shaping up to be neither a good game in its own right, as well not even a good "Sonic" game, so at that point, what's left?

Though I side very much with Dio with regards to this issue, I agree fully with the above statement. The game doesn't just look like a mediocre-poor Sonic game, it looks like a mediocre-poor game in general. Though I don't like the way the game has presented its gameplay, as I feel it is too far removed from Sonic's "identity", it wouldn't be so bad in the end, if BRB succeeded with it. At least it would be a decent game. That way, even if its a black sheep, it won't be battered so much due to quality issues, rather just direction issues.

Unfortunately, it looks like it'll be panned not just for missing the point of what Sonic is (IMO), but panned for also being of sub-standard quality.

 

Well, to each their own then. Personally I think this looks better than a fair chunk of Sonic games that have come out in the Blue Blur's 23 year history.

 

Given some of the games that SEGA have shat out over those 23 years, that statement doesn't mean a whole lot...

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Actually, it probably wouldn't. The game may have taken quite the budget to make, but once formulas like this are created, they are as cheap as anything to carry over into another game. It's the reason why Insomniac can pump out a R&C title nearly every year. Even if the first game didn't make that much money, the gross profit from the second game would be enough to break even. Far more cheap to create than completely overhauling the gameplay into a different design.

 

Though if it becomes so much of a disaster, I could see them ditching it. A show can run on it's own without tie-ins, from what I've observed.

I'm not talking only about the budget for the game. I'm talking about the money Sega has sunk into the entire branch: the games and their developers (let's not forget the 3DS version), the show, toys, and subsequent advertising. Every single thing has undoubtedly had tons of money pumped into it, so again, they're not just going to halt everything even in the case that Boom turns out mediocore, at least not without cutting serious losses. They want this thing to be a large entity. They're not going to just run the show for five seasons and ditch the games.

 

Oh, I'm definitely open to updates such as making the characters swifter. Such things I would expect from a sequel, though, not the first game. Changes to the core gameplay, though, such as making the stages more speed centric rather than not, I'd say no. This game is trying to make it's own identity, so you have to respect what it's trying to accomplish. The main levels may have ditched the arcade-y sensation of speed, but I feel that it was a fair trade off, as slower levels are far more immersive than stages that blow by you. That is what I feel these levels are attempting to accomplish, creating an immersion factor that backs up the experience rather than the replayability.

 

Some may enjoy replayability more than immersion, especially among the Sonic fanbase, but I, and many other gamers, value the latter far more. Change the purpose of the main levels, and you change the main appeal of them. While some might be attracted, others will be repelled, and as a result, will create two different fanbases that BRB would have to cater to. And, as seen in the Sonic Team games, that's no good.

The game is not trying to forge its own identity in the sense that it's an original property. It's trying to forge its identity as ultimately a Sonic spin-off series. It's a big one, but it's still a spin-off nonetheless. To ditch one of the major things about the entire franchise's identity- not just the Boost games- is understandably off-putting. Even with me being eager to play it, I'm not counting out moments where I might say "I could've been at x point by now," and it's not fair to dismiss this feeling as somehow playing the game wrong, because no matter how many times people say it, Sonic Boom- a platformer game with Sonic The Hedgehog and his friends in it, being overseen and officially published by Sega- is still a Sonic game. It will always have ties to its parent franchise no matter how many times we are told it shouldn't or, somehow, doesn't.

That being said, I don't think it's entirely rational to create this dichotomy implying that the only things that are replayable are fast games and the only immersive games are slow ones. Immersion comes from the addictiveness of a gameplay's style, regardless of its base speed. Unleashed, to me, is immersive. Burnout Revenge is immersive. Hydro Thunder is immersive, because they're simply fun. The fact that they go fast is merely part of the appeal and an element of their style, not some objective indicator that they somehow lack immersion.

Subsequently, to speed the gang up from how they move now would not necessarily break the appeal of the broad design of a more methodical platformer. You don't need to have them moving at 300 mph, but a steady 70- or at least some ability to reach 70 whether that be a natural accelerating property or a run button a la traditional platformers- would probably be much better than a static 25 through the school zone for most of the time. Another idea we need to stop perpetuating is the idea that every change is going to cause large-scale splintering in the fan base. Not only is it ironically against the idea of improvement- because you cannot inherently improve things without changing them- but it eliminates the potential for compromise and more satisfying games. You don't want to go super fast, others don't want to go super slow. So why can't we have a game where there's a median speed between those two extremes, and you are given the option to choose when you want to switch gears? The only people who would be against this are absolutist assholes, and if that's the case, do we really need to cater to them?

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You do make some good points. I certainly wouldn't mind if the characters in this game moved a little faster, provided all the other elements making this "Sonic Boom" were kept, though I still don't personally feel that this particular game's slower pace should be held against it (since it is a spin-off, and possibly the first in a series of them).

 

Since Sega wants this to do well, I'm sure the characters will be sped up for a sequel if enough people want them to be. BRB seems to want to make good games that appeal to as many people as possible, so if people want a (somewhat) faster sequel, I'm sure they'd be happy to make one. I get the feeling they're listening to us. That's just what I think, though.

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Well let's change the subject a bit and talk about how we could make this game feel more "Sonic-like" so fans don't feel Boom is so alien from the series.

 

 

- Aside from the obvious, a greater focus on speed and movement, in addition to the combat focus. I'd want BRB to actually use some familiar locations and set pieces that are better known in the series.

 

- Bringing in other established characters aside from the main four and Eggman. How would Shadow be used in this continuity? Are the Chaotix still detectives? Stuff like that

 

 

 

 

Those are really the only things that come to my mind when it comes to "Sonicy" things, but I'm sure other people have their own ideas. I don't want to change too much because this is still a spin off and I have to accept that certain liberties will be taken.

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 I'd want BRB to actually use some familiar locations and set pieces that are better known in the series.

I don't think it's likely BRB will be using any locations or set pieces that aren't already being used in this game, since they've already created their own consistent world for the cast to live in.

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I'm with the camp that just wants a good overall game at this point, the Sonic name being just what convinces me to buy it (a person's fandom doesn't always make sense). They classed it as a sub-brand for this reason, I guess.

That and it's not meant for us, but all the hopeful millions of young people who will join the fanbase in the wake of the TV series. If we buy it too, that's just a cherry on top.

The main consolation is SEGA Sonic will continue to be a thing if one dislikes the Boom direction. A thing that will probably continue to have all the problems of the last twenty plus years, but it'll be there.

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I don't think it's likely BRB will be using any locations or set pieces that aren't already being used in this game, since they've already created their own consistent world for the cast to live in.

 

 

They could at least throw a reference or something, anything to say that it's from the same series.

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The promo material shows a stylized Green Hill, so I'd hope they at least keep that around in the show or game. Having some sort of homage to the main series would be a wise idea, otherwise it really comes off as a completely different game that has Sonic charcters written into it to boost sales.

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They could at least throw a reference or something, anything to say that it's from the same series.

I'm sure there are some familiar settings already in Sonic Boom. It's been stated that whatever "normal" Sonic levels there are just haven't been shown yet because BRB wants us to get used to the more weird settings they've chosen (that's also part of why the combat was emphasised). Like Ogilvie said, we already have a Green Hill-esque area, so there's at least one right there.

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You do make some good points. I certainly wouldn't mind if the characters in this game moved a little faster, provided all the other elements making this "Sonic Boom" were kept, though I still don't personally feel that this particular game's slower pace should be held against it (since it is a spin-off, and possibly the first in a series of them).

 

Since Sega wants this to do well, I'm sure the characters will be sped up for a sequel if enough people want them to be. BRB seems to want to make good games that appeal to as many people as possible, so if people want a (somewhat) faster sequel, I'm sure they'd be happy to make one. I get the feeling they're listening to us. That's just what I think, though.

 

I don't know; if there's one characteristic I will always unanimously associate with Sonic, it's speed. If the characters are moving too slowly within the main game, I consider that a problematic feature of a Sonic game. Secret Rings being a spin-off didn't keep everyone from complaining that Sonic was too slow in the beginning and only made faster through power-ups, thus I don't really see why Boom should be an exception. Again, it's a spin-off, not a completely new franchise entirely divorced from Sonic and thus invalidating any direct comparisons.

 

BRB is definitely listening though, what with Frostmann being here and all, although it's difficult to gauge how effective the communication is to the end product. They are undoubtedly under supervision and perhaps some of the same standards and practices Sonic Team are, and we all know that all of the fan input on Sonic 4 did very little for Episode 2. If that proves to be a barrier to implementing criticism, then the link between developer and fandom becomes little more than a placebo.

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Well let's change the subject a bit and talk about how we could make this game feel more "Sonic-like" so fans don't feel Boom is so alien from the series.

 

Honestly, all I could ever want from Boom is for it to be a good game; whether it's a good Sonic game comes second. But if you really want to incorporate something from the main series, consider the design philosophy of the games first and foremost.

 

The entire series, both good and bad entires, run on a sort of daredevil system: the more aptly you play the game, the more flashy and awesome the game becomes to play, but difficulty ramps up rapidly when you do. Now, lots of platformers, racing games, and fighting games do this, but this thrill-based risk v. reward is much more traditionally upfront in Sonic's gameplay. 

 

If we wish to take that core balance of gameplay and apply it to the brawler style of game Sonic Boom wants to be, we actually arrive at an interesting conclusion: the most obvious result of such a blending of ideas is a Platinum Games spectacle fighter. W101 and MGR both fulfill the design philosophy at the heart of Sonic while being fighting games through and through, offering the thrill and tiers that should be familiar to those of us that hold the classics or the boost trilogy near and dear. The failure, in turn, of things like the Werehog or Boom's combat to evoke this core philosophy is, I think, what really bugs people about those systems underneath all the complaints of slowness or simplicity.

 

That's really just one avenue of hundreds that Boom could've explored, and it's one that doesn't necessarily involve heavy speed in any obvious fashion. The speed is a means to an end in Sonic; it's the reward of good gameplay, not the end in and of itself. Sonic can be a much more diverse series than a lot of people realize, but it needs to have that center, or risk alienating the very people it wants to sell to.

 

Sorry if that's a bit clunky, am in the middle of cooking

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Well let's change the subject a bit and talk about how we could make this game feel more "Sonic-like" so fans don't feel Boom is so alien from the series.

Well, assuming I was stuck with a similar combat-to-platforming ratio as Boom...

First off, the characters need to move faster overall in the combat/adventure areas. They don't need to be super fast, and it doesn't need to be heavily acceleration/momentum-based. Maybe even just having the current speed and a run button for a quicker pace.

Second, combat needs to be faster. Cut down the enemy HP. It shouldn't take more than a few hits to take out anything short of a miniboss. Include more AoE attacks, and add attacks that knock enemies into other enemies. Add more chasing attacks, so you can quickly follow up on an enemy you've knocked away (or jump to another enemy). Maybe make the enerbeam more useful, Spiderman that shit up, instead of just awkwardly lassoing enemies. Basically instead of standing around and pounding away at an enemy you should be zipping around the area, knocking grunts away like tin cans.

Third, introduce some decent physics into the platforming. I don't mean full on classic Sonic style physics; as much as I like them, Boom just isn't the time and place for them. But the game needs some fluidity in its motions. Let me feel some pendulum physics in those enerbeam swinging segments. Make homing attack targets work like the balloons from Generations, where you bounce forward instead of straight up. Make levels that aren't so flat, so I can ramp off some shit. Maybe stick a wallrun in there somewhere.

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The combat actually goes by pretty quickly when you play it, at least in my experience. I was genuinely surprised, as when I sat down at that booth, I was pretty sure I was in for Sonic Unleashed Night 2.

I think the videos don't do it justice.

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Well let's change the subject a bit and talk about how we could make this game feel more "Sonic-like" so fans don't feel Boom is so alien from the series.

Improve the combat to be faster paced, frantic and stylish and incorperate the characters abilities more. If they're gonna focus heavily on fighting hordes of enemies, then make the player want to look forward to each new encounter so they have a chance to pull off some badass combos.

 

In other words, do what Metal Gear Rising did and make fighting enemies super awesome.

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I wonder what it says about Sonic when most of what I get from these posts is that "We want the game to look cool as shit" ....I'm inclined to agree too, some spectacle would really help this game go over because if it's one thing that Sonic definitely excels at, it's having some really cool set pieces and showing some real spectacle from them. 

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The combat actually goes by pretty quickly when you play it, at least in my experience. I was genuinely surprised, as when I sat down at that booth, I was pretty sure I was in for Sonic Unleashed Night 2.

I think the videos don't do it justice.

That is very nice to hear. Though I already kind of figured this game would be way more fun to play than to watch anyway, it's definitely good to hear someone else who as actually played it pretty much confirm it for me.

 

Looking forward to it more than ever now. 

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I wonder what it says about Sonic when most of what I get from these posts is that "We want the game to look cool as shit" ....I'm inclined to agree too, some spectacle would really help this game go over because if it's one thing that Sonic definitely excels at, it's having some really cool set pieces and showing some real spectacle from them. 

I think it says that sonic is suppose to be cool as shit.... 

Im inclined to agree.

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That is very nice to hear. Though I already kind of figured this game would be way more fun to play than to watch anyway, it's definitely good to hear someone else who as actually played it pretty much confirm it for me.

 

Looking forward to it more than ever now. 

 

The really good part is the combat also had a low learning curve. There's not many combos, but what combos do exist help take out enemies quick. The fact Sonic has a homing attack is a real life saver as it allows you to whittle down multiple enemies.

 

I'm hopeful they don't really increase the enemies in later levels, barring those mini-boss areas where you have to defeat an onslaught, that every Sony platformer has at least one or two of.

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8:43-ish, Sonic runs at high speed without touching a dash panel. It happened when he touched a line of rings, so it might be a light speed dash.

 

EDIT: Oh, it's just the spin dash.

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hmm.. In my country.. ALL people hatred Sonic Boom because of bad design(especially), PS1 Graphic, Bad combat system,

Source : http://bbs2.ruliweb.daum.net/gaia/do/ruliweb/default/nin/159/read?articleId=1435440&bbsId=G003&itemGroupId=35&pageIndex=1

 

P.S http://bbs2.ruliweb.daum.net/gaia/do/ruliweb/default/nin/159/read?articleId=1435537&bbsId=G003&itemGroupId=35&pageIndex=1

(they think Sonic Birthday is Sonic funeral service and I agree because Sega's current financial status is really danger)

 

P.S I'm back.

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