Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Also im sorry but if you think that sonic boom is going to start feeling fast when your playing it. Well that's just not gonna happen.

Look, I know you feel jaded by what's been shown of Boom, but there's nothing to dictate that the game won't feel fast for a player when they actually play it for themselves.

[TheLaw34]

Look, I know you feel jaded by what's been shown of Boom, but there's nothing to dictate that the game won't feel fast for a player when they actually play it for themselves.

You mean beside common sense right? Sure there might be 50 kids and a handful of adults who play this and think its fast.

[Enesephus]

 He said that something which is slow no matter which way you slice it is gonna be because your the one playing it. This isn't opinion anymore. He's just wrong

The characters may not be running fast, but that doesn't mean the player can't feel fast while playing the game. And did you just say he's "just wrong?" That is a giant load of bullshit, plain and simple. You do not tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them. You just don't.

[Nepenthe]

They didn't ditch it, they just inserted it into the segments they felt it was best suited for.

 

I don't think you're giving the term "spin-off" enough leeway here, though. In my eyes, if a series is still trying to utilize the same characters, just in a different universe, the least they are obligated to do is acknowledge the ability of the protagonist is still there. If they've accomplished that, they can go wild with whatever style they want, if they think it will be appealing. This is the attitude Alphadream took towards the M&L series, and it worked quite well. It didn't grab the same audience as the main Mario games, but that wasn't their intentions in the first place, and it still did well enough to bring in a dedicated fanbase.

 

Those segments are divorced completely from the main gameplay, the brunt of which will be had in these adventure sections. While I like the idea of giving displays of speed a purpose as they've done, I don't necessarily agree that having these sections means the main game has free reign to be as slow as molasses for most of the time. Even as a Werehog lover, I still wish he had far more athleticism in the main game both in comparison to the day stages, the cut scenes in which he was seen using his arms to gain speed, and the franchise in general which advertises speed. But at the very least, Sega included a handy run button to abuse. Boom doesn't even give you that choice.

Also, comparing Boom to the Mario and Luigi games isn't entirely founded. Ignoring the contexts of each franchise's history with different gimmicks and playstyles, which allows one more leeway to experiment than the other, the M&L games are a completely different genre than the main Mario games; they're RPGs. Sonic Boom, however, is a platformer, just like the main Sonic games and many of their spin-offs, the latter of which were given no leeway on the design front either. Thus, that is inevitably- and fairly- going to draw comparisons and subsequent dissent from people who have a belief of what a Sonic platformer is supposed to be. If Sonic Boom was an RPG however, people would be giving the game the benefit of the doubt just like they did Chronicles.

 

If there are any moments in the game where you say "I could have been there by now" and there's clearly no reason not to be, though, then that's just poor level pacing. If you set a certain speed, you need to build your levels around that speed.

 

It would only strictly be the level design's fault in a vacuum where the rest of the Sonic franchise didn't exist for comparison. I've played slower games, but I don't think "Man if I were Sonic, I would be there in a few minutes," because said games don't have the context of two decades' worth of speedy titles under their belt.

 

I never said that the two were exclusive, only that both of the styles emphasize one more than the other.

 

And you and I have two very different definitions of immersion when it comes to video games. Immersion to me is when you are immersed into the game's universe, the state of awareness where you not only acknowledge the gameplay's fun factor, but the world around you, the characters in it, and the situations you and they are in. When going slowly, you're given more time to think about such stuff, but when blistering at supersonic speeds like in burnout, the only thing you're focused on is your performance and what's ahead of you. This is why replayability is a defining point for such gameplay, in my opinion, as people are never bored with such speeds and can play it again and again while constantly bettering themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the entire basis for your definition of immersion?

 

My personal definition of immersion is very basic- it is the ability of a game to cause you to focus almost entirely on the goals it sets forth and to personally invest yourself in the outcomes of your performance, to mentally drown out other matters as you play on. This can range from the addictive nature of twitch-reflex games, to the exploratory nature of slower paced ones, to positive narrative endings of a visual novel. Under my definition, every game has the potential to be immersive to the audience in its own way, thus it's difficult for me to comprehend the idea of a fast game being inherently less immersive than a slower one by default. It is completely at odds with my own experiences.

Subsequently I consider this different from replayability, which is the ability of a game to instill the desire in one to play it over after it's been completed in some objective fashion. A replayable game is almost always immersive, but an immersive game is not necessarily a replayable one; for example, I found Super Mario Galaxy immersive but have no real desire to play it again, because I feel I've gained everything I needed to from it. However, the amount of hours I've wasted on something like Pokemon Puzzle League's tournament is probably a number I don't really need to know. Thus, it is both immersive and replayable to me.

 

I never said I was against the idea of speeding them up a bit. Though really, such a thing shouldn't be necessary if the stage is designed properly. Speed is subject to it's environment, and the environment's purpose is subject to it's speed; as such, their relationship should be respected. Colors suffered from an engine too fast for it's blocky platforming, and SLW suffered from too slow of an engine for its barren 2D strips of land. Both were unfitting for their stage design, and as a result, players were confused with their purpose, and irritated by the inconsistency, leading to complaints such as "it's too blocky!" or "it's too slow!". Speeding up Sonic if he's already fast enough will just make the purpose of the level unclear, like speeding up a tractor in a plowing simulator.

Again, I don't think we can talk about speed in a vacuum because the context of a franchise's respective habits always exists and is going to fuel preferences for sequels, especially sequels in the same genre. I tolerate the exact same speed in Boom in other places because those places lack a relationship to higher velocities overall. It would be foolish of me to expect, say, Link, to move on foot as fast as Sonic in Unleashed can. Subsequently, even if Sonic is paced perfectly in Boom for the level design, it is inevitably going to fuel people's disinterest if they believe the game itself is paced too slowly for a franchise entry. And again, this isn't unfair. This is reasonable and expected, because half the reason Boom is even getting attention in this day and age is because Sonic's on the cover in the first place, and the layman has an idea of what to expect. At some point, the blame for this has to fall on BRB.

 

Eh, no.

 

Change is not improvement, it's abandoning an approach for another. It can be better than the previous approach, and therefore be improvement, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still a different approach.

 

Improvement inherently is the polish of a thing or idea, usually getting rid of flaws, such as poor execution. What matters is whether you are focusing on what such an idea or thing is trying to accomplish when you do improve it, or are focusing on what you wish it to be. That's change, not improvement.

 

Change is always tied to conflicting views, though, and be it large or small, will create a fissure between two parties that enjoy one thing or the other. It comes with human taste, which will always be unique to the other in some way.

 

So no, I don't think it's wrong to assume that change will alienate a portion of people who like a specific thing. Though "large-scale splintering" is a bit of an exagerration.

I did not say that change is improvement. I said that improvement is change. There is a difference. Not all change is good or worthwhile, but to improve something you must address its flaws. And the moment you fix a flaw, you have inherently changed the work. Thus, there is no logical way to simultaneously be for improvement yet be vehemently against any and all change.

 

I further disagree on your belief that improvement only counts as minute polishing and bug fixing, mainly because this is not even have collaborative works like games even get made, much less how they're developed, or how sustain themselves over sequels. To work in the entertainment industry in any artistic manner requires outright sacrificing features and ideas, for everyone to come to agreements about what is and isn't necessary, and to overall emotionally distance yourself from specific components. This can range from something as simple as a style of menu navigation to something as big as an entire gameplay feature. To say that this is inherently wrong is ridiculously at odds with how games even get made in the current work environment, as in, you literally cannot work as an artistic employee and expect every single thing to be salvaged throughout development for all time. It just doesn't work like that, unless all you want to work on are reskins of the same game in more casual or independent environments.

[TheLaw34]

 

By those accounts, depending on how certain people take a shine to a certain direction, and the countless ways that they would define the series for themselves, it could very end up being the majority that feels like this plays as a Sonic game, whether you like it or not.

 

Like I said I dont care which direction it goes. So whether I like it or not depends on nothing but whether or not the game is good which boom isn't. 

Anyway you miss the point i'm making. The point is, a huge amount of people are saying that isn't it, and yelling "YES IT IS" wont change that.

 

The characters may not be running fast, but that doesn't mean the player can't feel fast while playing the game. And did you just say he's "just wrong?" That is a giant load of bullshit, plain and simple. You do not tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them. You just don't.

When someone is calling a circle a square yeah you do. Like I said saying you cant argue someone opinion only works when it actually is. The fact is when you're playing as knuckles , tail or amy and mashing y to hit a boss, pulling levers and hitting buttons ,saying its gonna feel fast is just something is just not something I need to pretend holds any credibility.

 

So sorry but no. When you are calling apples orange you are indeed, just wrong.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

You mean beside common sense right?

Stooping to the "common sense" argument over an opinion-oriented subject won't earn you any merit points. It tends to make one come off as a discriminative jerk. Are you suggesting that the many people who do find this game to feel fast from playing the demo are devoid of "common sense"? All because they can actually get a sense of speed from this game while others can't? Tsk.

[Enesephus]

When someone is calling a circle a square yeah you do. Like I said saying you cant argue someone opinion only works when it actually is. The fact is when you're playing as knuckles , tail or amy and mashing y to hit a boss, pulling levers and hitting buttons ,saying its gonna feel fast is just something is just not something I need to pretend holds any credibility.

 

So sorry but no. When you are calling apples orange you are indeed, just wrong.

It may not feel fast to everyone, but, like I said, that doesn't mean no one can feel fast playing it.

 

And no one here's calling circles squares or apples oranges. Not everyone will feel the same way when playing a game, and that's all there is to it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Like I said I dont care which direction it goes. So whether I like it or not depends on nothing but whether or not the game is good which boom isn't. 

 

Your constant insistence that the game will be bad for sure, and pushing of the notion that common sense would dictate not to view this game as a Sonic game or good suggest otherwise.

 

The point is, a huge amount of people are saying that isn't it, and yelling "YES IT IS" wont change that.

Seeing as how that statement and its vice versa counterpart are true, I never argued against that. The problem was where you assumed that the "majority" were are all speaking protest against Boom.

[omote23]

It would appear you're a bit late to the party, obligatory "You're too slow! " joke aside, seeing as how that sentiment has overall since long passed with the coming of the more, shall I say, enhanced build.

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2014/06/sonic-booms-e3-makeover/

An efficient analysis of said upscale, has lifted spirits in regard to the graphics.

Anyway, I figure the Boom! thread is probably the best place for this, so say hello to Melpontro's new pet project!

http://youtu.be/o_X8o2u1Zew

It's still BAD.

Check out Sonic Unleashed PS2 version and DMC3. And compare these to Sonic Boom.

Plus, this is just a screenshot. I mean a gameplay graphic.

Sent from my SHW-M250S using Tapatalk 2

P.S Considering you didn't refute my other opinion.. So. You acknowledge my other opinion?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Plus, this is just a screenshot. I mean a gameplay graphic.

 

You didn't notice the videos I posted in that post? Those were what uplifted and changed the sentiments, and put the "PS2 graphics" joke to rest.

[TheLaw34]

Your constant insistence that the game will be bad for sure, and pushing of the notion that commons sense would dictate not to view this game as a Sonic game or good suggest otherwise.

1) There is no way you can draw a link between me saying its a bad game and me having a problem with its direction. That's just making stuff up.

2)There is no way you can draw a link between me saying its not a sonic game and me having a problem with its direction.

 

I've said many time sonic game or not if this were a good game I would like it. I have never said because its not a sonic game I don't like it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1) There is no way you can draw a link between me saying its a bad game and me having a problem with its direction. That's just making stuff up.

2)There is no way you can draw a link between me saying its not a sonic game and me having a problem with its direction.

 

Actually, I can. They both reveal your disdain directed at Boom with that of the Wii U version shown. Are you reporting that you don't have a problem with Boom's videogame direction? Because your remarks directed at Boom for the Wii U highly speak otherwise.

 

I've said many time sonic game or not if this were a good game I would like it. I have never said because its not a sonic game I don't like it.

Well then, it's a good thing I never accused you of that. Because that wasn't the focal point of moi's statements.

P.S Considering you didn't refute my other opinion.. So. You acknowledge my other opinion?

No, I just didn't feel the need to point out the holes and lack of logic in them this time and just ignored them. Sorry to leave you hanging like that, I guess.

[SlickEvan]

Hmm didn't know people could decide whether or not I find a game fast. When people say they find 06 fast enough I don't take a squat on their sentiment but rather understand that they probably feel different about it than I. I see if I were calling a snail fast that's different but this is a pretty different subject especially with all variables accounted for. I don't see SA2 speed runs as fast- until I do it myself and am like "WOW OMG WOAH" so no. If I can spindash my mary way along or even just run with MYSELF actually playing then I can determine whether its fast or not to me.

[TheLaw34]

Actually, I can. They both reveal your disdain directed at Boom with that of the Wii U version shown. Are you reporting that you don't have a problem with Boom's videogame direction? Because your remarks directed at Boom for the Wii U highly speak otherwise.

What you are saying is because i've stated I the problem with sonic boom I dont like the direction its going in. No I dont have a problem with sonic booms direction. I'm a huge jak fan and im a huge fan of brawlers in general. However the execution that sonic boom is shitty. To put it simply everything being done in sonic boom has been done better. So while the direction is fine the execution is horrible.

Me once again you need to learn not liking a game is not equal to not liking the direction.

 

 

 

Well then, it's a good thing I never accused you of that. Because that wasn't the focal point of moi's statements.

 

you said.

 pushing of the notion that commons sense would dictate not to view this game as a Sonic game or good suggests you care about its direction

Firstly I never said that common sense dictates the game isnt good. Thats just putting words in my mouth.

You said I think common sense points to it not being a sonic game....( Which I also never said but whatever)

 

But you said because I think common sense says its not a sonic game I don't like its direction.

How could you not expect me to think you are saying I don't like its direction because its not a sonic game.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter since you are using things I never said as evidence.

 

On the topic on if the game will feel fast. Okay then.

If you wanna believe that anything more than a handful of people are gonna claim they feel fast pulling boxes and pushing levers go ahead,  but I'm gonna stay right here in reality.

 

But why should speed matter anyway. After all "its not a sonic game".

[omote23]

You didn't notice the videos I posted in that post? Those were what uplifted and changed the sentiments, and put the "PS2 graphics" joke to rest.

I think you didn't check out DMC3.. Compare DMC3 to Sonic Boom please (DMC3 is one of the PS2 game)

Sent from my SHW-M250S using Tapatalk 2

[Enesephus]

 

If you wanna believe that anything more than a handful of people are gonna claim they feel fast pulling boxes and pushing levers go ahead,  but I'm gonna stay right here in reality.

Once again, you're doing the same bullshit. You're saying that people who don't feel the same way you do about Sonic Boom are wrong and delusional. Is it really so hard for you to just respect that not every everyone feels the same way you do? Even if only "a handful of people" feel fast playing Sonic Boom, that does not make them wrong. It really is a matter of opinion. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

If you wanna believe that anything more than a handful of people are gonna claim they feel fast pulling boxes and pushing levers go ahead,  but I'm gonna stay right here in reality.

 

 

Okay, seriously what's up with this rude shtick of treating those who actually speak positively of Boom like they're living in a fantasy.

 

Aside from lacking/boggling grammar and paragraph structure that needs work, that may be very misleading, it's those kind of antics that lend towards the notion of you chastising those in favor of Boom as devoid of common sense.

[TheLaw34]

Okay, seriously what's up with this rude shtick of treating those who actually speak positively of Boom like they're living in a fantasy.

 

Aside from lacking/boggling grammar and paragraph structure that needs work, that may be very misleading, it's those kind of antics that lend towards the notion of you chastising those in favor of Boom as devoid of common sense.

I said its a fantasy to think the game will be fast. Saying I treat people who speak positively about boom as living in a fantasy is just more of you pulling things out of nowhere. Would be really appreciated if you did not that.

 

Sadly my bad grammar doesn't change the fact that what you said about me being against the games direction and what you said about me hating the game cause its not sonic is nothing but bull.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Sadly my bad grammar doesn't change the fact that what you said about me being against the games direction and what you said about me hating the game cause its not sonic is nothing but bull.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said you "hated the game because it isn't Sonic". I don't take kindly to miss-conceivences that lead to lies.

[TheLaw34]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said you "hated the game because it isn't Sonic".

OH sorry you said I hated/have a problem with the games direction because its not sonic. I would feel bad about making the mistake if it wasn't equally untrue.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

OH sorry you said I hated/have a problem with the games direction because its not sonic. I would feel bad about making the mistake if it wasn't equally untrue.

I didn't say that either. It appears, a necessary re-review is in order.

[TheLaw34]

I didn't say that either. It appears, a necessary re-review is in order.

Well you can let me know when you finish that re-review. Fact is you did say :because I don't think this a sonic game I must care about the direction and not the execution and no matter how many time you review your posts that's still what they will be saying. Seriously though it was a page ago I really find it hard to believe you 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well you can let me know when you finish that re-review.

Actually that re-review was for you to conduct since you're still missing an important aspect that debunks your accusation of me saying that.

 

 

Your constant insistence that the game will be bad for sure, and pushing of the notion that common sense would dictate not to view this game as a Sonic game or good suggest otherwise.

 

Don't know if this was a language barrier that caused your mis-understanding, but by implementing the factor of just suggestion, I never said outright that you were guilty of hating/liking it. I did however say that evidence would suggest it, since I'm not the type who likes to jump the gun.

[Detective Shadzter]

Metro gives their verdict on Boom so far. 

http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/27/hyrule-warriors-hands-on-preview-plus-the-misery-of-sonic-boom-4778036/

 

Ouch...

[Johnny Boy]

Man, the press for this game seems to have been mixed to negative with every article I read. I'm now shuddering about the actual review scores when they come out.