Should Sonic Team consider using BRB writers?

[Vertekins]

I'm not gonna sit here and kiss Ian Flynn's ass, because he's not perfect (few writers are). But, he clearly is, by and large, the best writer that Sonic, across any medium, has had so far.

Do some of his plot threads fall flat on their faces sometimes? Sure. But, the guy has proven, time and again, that he has a deep understanding of the Sonic lore. And he manages to balance witty banter, character development, meme-references, and fan-service with great skill.

I mean, come on, the guy single-handedly made the Archie comics readable. I think that, in and of itself, is the greatest accomplishment that any Sonic writer has bagged thus far.

 

Completely and utterly disagreed.

 

Copious meme-references always came off as an even lower form of wit than sarcasm and I personally find them to an exceptionally obnoxious form of humor. "Character development" such as that of Rotor, Sally and Charmy were flat-out terrible IMO, Rotor being portrayed completely OoC, Sally being shilled time and time again and being touted as 'perfect' and...please, just... don't get me started on Charmy because just thinking about the way he was handled just makes me angry. The stories have been extremely hit and miss. I've never really considered Flynn a consistent writer in terms of quality and have personally seen far, far better. Hence why I don't believe he should write for the games.

 

Since Boom doesn't have Chaos Emeralds, and Knuckles is being placed within a team, making him a bit ditzy and goofy is the only way I can see him adding an interesting dynamic to said team. Hell, I'd take that over "the hothead, with a chip on his shoulder" any day of the week.

 

I can see him adding dynamic to the team in multiple ways such as;

 

- Expanding upon his inhospitality towards Sonic due to his jealousy regarding his free lifestyle. This would be an interesting way of causing enmity between the two characters and was hardly ever utilized in the main series.

 

- Showing his sense of honor more.

 

- Expanding upon his obliviousness to things outside his island for humor. This was utilized in pretty well in Riders.

 

- Show his treasure hunter side more and his knowledge regarding it. I'm not the only one who thought that Knuckles' knowledge of ancient cultures and even his grasp of the Babylonian language in Zero Gravity was interesting right? There could've been so much potential for this if the 'archaeologist' role in Boom was taken from Amy and given to Knuckles in Boom.

[Wittymations]

But, this version of Knuckles has been around for a while now. It's nothing new.

Just because a problem is old doesn't make it any less of a problem.

[KingIgort]

  

Alright, then I'll give you a better answer. I don't really mind if Sonic is more comedic or has a simpler story; I would be a hypocrite if I said I hated simple stories. But Colors styled storytelling is fucking awful in my opinion, because it undercuts it's own plot for the sake of shitty jokes even when plots prior to it still had some degree of respect for their own plots. And I want Sonic Team to keep trying to write a better story because they've shown, even in small amounts, that they can actually pull it off. To completely give up on it and pander to groups of people who can't be assed to just simply skip the cutscenes or believe they are some kind of bastion of superiority because they hate the idea of stories in Sonic due to stupid singleminded-ness is not only fucking insulting to the fans who see the potential of Sonics universe, but it also means that Sonic will have nothing left to distinguish itself or even have anything left to draw people in. The gameplay is already spotty as it is; are we really going to trash the narrative and turn Sonic into even more of a nobody than he is now?

 

 

It still doesn't really feel like you're answering my question, which was, I would like to point out, just a question. You seem to have inferred a ton of things from it that I simply did not say. Feels more like you just hate Sonic Colours' plot and are taking it out on me because I enjoyed it.

[Chaos Controller]

There's nothing "pointless" about voicing your opinion, just because you find it pointless yourself doesn't mean everyone else should. :\

 

 

In regards to Knuckles...I really don't recall Sega!Knuckles ever saying lines like the ones he's been saying in Boom, so I don't really think it's fair to say he's "been around for a while" especially since Sega!Knuckles has been kind of irrelevant for a few years to really establish any sort of character aside from very minor appearances. Boom is literally is first major role in a video game for a long time now. Not saying I don't like Boom!Knuckles, because I too think he's very amusing in his own charming way, but he and Sega!Knuckles are not the same character by any stretch.

"Voicing your opinion" and "whining" are not the same thing. I'm picking up more of the latter (not necessarily from you, just in general).

And, no, he hasn't said the same lines. But, Knuckles being an oaf? That's been a thing for a while. Like I said, Boom seems to be just embellishing on that for laughs.

[Vertekins]

And, no, he hasn't said the same lines. But, Knuckles being an oaf? That's been a thing for a while. Like I said, Boom seems to be just embellishing on that for laughs.

 

But there's so many better ways of utilizing Knuckles for laughs than turning him into a dumbass.

[Nepenthe]

Sega Knuckles has never said anything on par with the sheer obliviousness of his Boom counterpart. Knuckles is also interesting as a guy with archaeological expertise, which they used once in Zero Gravity to great effect and usefulness of the character. This is less of a long-running problem and more of a new one they created through exacerbation in an effort to separate the characters from their Sega counterparts. Even if it were a long-running problem, telling people to deal with it just because you don't give a fuck is not the way to handle a conversation.

[Kuzu]

"Voicing your opinion" and "whining" are not the same thing. I'm picking up more of the latter (not necessarily from you, just in general).

And, no, he hasn't said the same lines. But, Knuckles being an oaf? That's been a thing for a while. Like I said, Boom seems to be just embellishing on that for laughs.

 

I don't know where you get "whining" but eh, that's neither here nor there.

 

And I do not deny Knuckles has always been a bit of an oaf, or that Boom is exaggerating that. It's just jarring for some people who are used to seeing Knuckles portrayed more neutrally as back in the 90's or Dreamcast era, and the fact that Boom just went ahead and made him practically what everyone was mostly disliking about the character(Pretty much a standard, "Dumb Muscle" character) for the past few years. Hell, even I wasn't too keen on Knuckles at first and I'm still trying to get used to it and it's not something I(Or anyone else) is just going to instantly be ok with.

 

If Knuckles ends up a decent character in Boom, I'll acknowledge that. If he isn't, I'm going to call it out and acknowledge it because I feel Knuckles deserves a bit more as a character than just being another "Hit first, ask questions later" type of guy. And before anyone corrects me, I know Knuckles has always been like that since his debut, but he also had other parts of his character as well, so the fact that Boom decided to focus on his lack of intelligence and use it as his primary character trait just rubs me the wrong way.

 

It's like if they took Superman and just diluted all of his character traits and just focused on how overpowered and perfect he is.

[Chaos Controller]

But there's so many better ways of utilizing Knuckles for laughs than turning him into a dumbass.

The guy says a few Daffy Duck-esque lines, and everyone starts acting like he's mentally challenged or something.

Also, this "sense of honor" and "jealousy toward Sonic" thing? Never seen him characterized like that in any clear or consistent manner, game-wise. He's usually a gullible, hot-headed brawler who, more recently, has become more of a "bro-ish" oaf.

Just because a problem is old doesn't make it any less of a problem.

And why is it a problem? Because it's not the same as the '90s interpretation of the character...?

[Nepenthe]

No one here is subscribing to 90s nostalgia. People are saying there are more interesting facets to Knuckles' personality- even without the Master Emerald- that they would rather see in a canon where the writers essentially had free reign to start from scratch, rather than him simply being turned into the dumb muscle, something which is becoming more and more apparent with each line he spouts and with each round of hand-wringing and semantics-playing being done by people who are trying to defend this characterization from that simple moniker. Again, if you're fine with it, that's one thing, but it's really disingenuous to try and brush off people's problems with it as whining or bias.

[Kuzu]

To be a bit fairer to the writers, they are at least acknowledging other parts of his personality steadily. They're acknowledging the friction between him and Sonic, something that has been sorely missed for years in the main series, and the his arrogant and boisterous streak with his dissent to Amy taking charge and trying to assert his authoritah authority over the situation. As long as they acknowledge he has more depth than being a ditz, then I can get used to his him being as such, even if I don't really agree with that direction for his character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It still doesn't really feel like you're answering my question, which was, I would like to point out, just a question. You seem to have inferred a ton of things from it that I simply did not say. Feels more like you just hate Sonic Colours' plot and are taking it out on me because I enjoyed it.

That's not what he's doing.

 

Yeah, he doesn't like Colors, but you basically said that Sonic should have plots that are like Sonic Colors, not because you enjoyed it, but because you questioned why Sonic Team should even try to deliver anything more than that when they've failed previously. This is like giving up on a game because you died trying to get though a level instead of trying to find a way to beat it, or like taking a class in school and then giving up the whole course just because you failed on 1 or 2 assignments - not only are you devaluing the passable work you've done, but you're not even bothering to try to find ways to do better. Essentially, if something's broke, rather than fix it you just don't bother trying again to succeed, which is not really a creative or productive way to find a solution.

 

What some of us want, which SenEDtor Missile is saying, is a much better and richer plot than what Colors gave us, along the lines of the Adventures or Unleashed. Something that we can enjoy experiencing and exploring, because they've been able to pull it off in the past, and can do so again if they pull themselves together over the problems that resulted in other plots like that of Sonic 06 and ShTH. There's nothing wrong with more simplistic plots from time to time, but just because we had bad games like those two doesn't mean they shouldn't bother trying again.

 

Failure doesn't come from falling down, it comes from refusing to get back up; so if you stumble somewhere down the line, get up, dust yourself off, learn from your mistakes, and try again. Nobody got anywhere they wanted by not bothering or struggling at it. And that's what some of us are wanting when it comes to having a better plot than Colors.

[Wittymations]

And why is it a problem? Because it's not the same as the '90s interpretation of the character...?

Without any real rhyme or reason, yes. It's not like Knuckles was developed into the dumbass muscle who seemed to forget he had a job to do, it just happened. At that point, why is he even Knuckles?

 

He just showed up one game without any reason and fell into this muck.

 

Knuckles used to just be a slightly naive guy that was easy to agitate, but had a strong sense duty and purpose. Now, dumb muscle.

 

I'm more forgiving on Boom for only one reason: Different continuity, he probably was never a guardian in the first place.

 

This Knuckles isn't even a shell of SEGA Knuckles. As SEGA Knuckles, that's all he is, a shell of what he used to be. True for many characters.

 

Changing personalities and growing is okay IF there's a reason for it, if a story showed why they changed. Knuckles did not get that. Knuckles just popped up with that change.

 

When you have a different interpretation of a character within the same universe for no reason, they're not the same character, they're a shell of the character.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

That's not what he's doing.

 

Yeah, he doesn't like Colors, but you basically said that Sonic should have plots that are like Sonic Colors, not because you enjoyed it, but because you questioned why Sonic Team should even try to deliver anything more than that when they've failed previously. This is like giving up on a game because you died trying to get though a level instead of trying to find a way to beat it, or like taking a class in school and then giving up the whole course just because you failed on 1 or 2 assignments - not only are you devaluing the passable work you've done, but you're not even bothering to try to find ways to do better. Essentially, if something's broke, rather than fix it you just don't bother trying again to succeed, which is not really a creative or productive way to find a solution.

 

What some of us want, which SenEDtor Missile is saying, is a much better and richer plot than what Colors gave us, along the lines of the Adventures or Unleashed. Something that we can enjoy experiencing and exploring, because they've been able to pull it off in the past, and can do so again if they pull themselves together over the problems that resulted in other plots like that of Sonic 06 and ShTH. There's nothing wrong with more simplistic plots from time to time, but just because we had bad games like those two doesn't mean they shouldn't bother trying again.

 

Failure doesn't come from falling down, it comes from refusing to get back up; so if you stumble somewhere down the line, get up, dust yourself off, learn from your mistakes, and try again. Nobody got anywhere they wanted by not bothering or struggling at it. And that's what some of us are wanting when it comes to having a better plot than Colors.

^He put this into better and less angry words than I did.

[KingIgort]

^He put this into better and less angry words than I did.

 

Sorry if my words annoyed you. It honestly wasn't my intention. I just saw a lot of anger over what I thought was a harmless comment and was confused. 

 

What some of us want, which SenEDtor Missile is saying, is a much better and richer plot than what Colors gave us, along the lines of the Adventures or Unleashed. Something that we can enjoy experiencing and exploring, because they've been able to pull it off in the past, and can do so again if they pull themselves together over the problems that resulted in other plots like that of Sonic 06 and ShTH. There's nothing wrong with more simplistic plots from time to time, but just because we had bad games like those two doesn't mean they shouldn't bother trying again.

 

Ahh, I get that. I'm not completely opposed to the idea of a "deeper" storyline, it's just that the majority of the older Sonic storylines have taken themselves too seriously, in my opinion. We're all different, right? It'd be boring if we all liked the same stuff.

 

Hitting another point though, I'm on the fence about the idea of Sonic games re-using and exploring the lore they've set up. The idea of Sonic as a nomad, is deeply ingrained in me. I liked the idea that, because he's always exploring this big world he's a part of, he's always discovering new things and rarely encounters stuff from the previous games. Again though, that's purely how I see it, I'm not going to hold it against a game if it does decide to reuse characters, or even places (it certainly wasn't my problem with 06's story, to be honest). It's funny because, and this'll mean nothing to anyone, but my dream Sonic game (I'm sure we all have one), completely goes against this idea. I guess I'm just a massive hypocrite

[Wittymations]

Deciding not to reuse bits and pieces from previous plots suggests, to me, that Sonic is the only thing that matters in this world. Sure, I get he's the main guy, but other things are taking place, whether that's Eggman, GUN, Knuckles, Shadow, Omochao or what all else. They, too, can make their actions known. Even if Sonic decides to ditch them for something new, doesn't mean they want to be ditched.  They should be perfectly allowed to come back, if a plot calls for it.

 

Doesn't mean there will never be new stuff, new stuff can come along, may come along with the old.

 

Plus, returning old stuff can give a shout-out to fans of them.

 

It'd be nice if something came back that was part of the plot rather than just aesthetics like Not-Green-Hill Zone or Wisps who are there, but really for no reason.

[Splash the Otter]

Without any real rhyme or reason, yes. It's not like Knuckles was developed into the dumbass muscle who seemed to forget he had a job to do, it just happened. At that point, why is he even Knuckles?

 

I'm more forgiving on Boom for only one reason: Different continuity, he probably was never a guardian in the first place..

In all honesty, Knuckles guarding the Master Emerald is something I don't really miss. I've seen too many depictions in fanon where he's obsessed with the thing to be entirely comfortable with it coming back. If it does come back, I just hope it doesn't become the entirety of his character or force him to stay on Angel Island except when there's a crisis.

[Kuzu]

In all honesty, Knuckles guarding the Master Emerald is something I don't really miss. I've seen too many depictions in fanon where he's obsessed with the thing to be entirely comfortable with it coming back. If it does come back, I just hope it doesn't become the entirety of his character or force him to stay on Angel Island except when there's a crisis.

 

Pretty sure that wasn't his point. He was talking about how they turned Knuckles into this musclehead character for absolutely no reason, mostly because they couldn't be bothered to find anything else interesting to do with him. It's a disservice to the character and the people that did like him before he went to shit.

[Kenny_Glover]

 Honestly, I feel that the writing has been trying rather too hard to be funny ever since Sonic Colors. I really think the Storybook games had the best writing. They were funny without becoming too forced and serious without going overboard all at the same time.

[Jolt_TH]

Call me cynical or whatever, but isn't it a bit too early to be calling praise for the BRB writers?

I mean in Colours, Generations and Lost World we were all excited about the story that would be involved especially from the teasers we saw. However the final story left much to be desired, although some felt it fell flatter than others. Shouldn't we wait to see if the story as a whole is actually any good and if the writers can actually portray the characters not only correctly , but also consistently?

[Wittymations]

In all honesty, Knuckles guarding the Master Emerald is something I don't really miss.

That's fine, you can call the island being a weight to him, but the problem is that's a huge part of who he was. To ignore that is to go against the character, why is he Knuckles at that point? It's an extremely important part of him. He was brought into the world with it.

 

It can go away, but it has to have a reason to go away. If Eggman were to bomb the island, as an example, and destroy the Master Emerald once and for all, he can't really go back to his job, can he?

 

If they're going to ignore that very important aspect of the character, then they have to give a good reason. Destroying it would take it out in style.

 

Personally, I rather him stay up there, but since they want to use the Echidna and ignore his traits, then it would be nice to have closure.

[TheMessiah999]

No...BRB Writting is terrible. The dialgoue seems to be improving but it seems as though it's going to be the same results as Colors and Lost World...More comedy and characters acting stupid. Espically Knuckles...Good god Knuckles has it terrible.

[Kuzu]

No...BRB Writting is terrible. The dialgoue seems to be improving but it seems as though it's going to be the same results as Colors and Lost World...More comedy and characters acting stupid. Espically Knuckles...Good god Knuckles has it terrible.

Uh...I'm getting the opposite impression really, but who knows.

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[danidado]

*Off topic rant incoming*

 

Seriously ? The more I'm reading the comments in these posts, the more I'm frightened. Is this supposed to be a Mario forum or a Sonic forum ??

 

Why the hell Sonic should ever take ANYTHING from Mario ??? I know this sounds like a '90s fanboy rant, but why Sonic should copy Mario ??? That's what Colors and Lost World (and Gens to some extent) have been doing, and it's just...terrible.

[TheMessiah999]

Uh...I'm getting the opposite impression really, but who knows.

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I'm not it looks horredus.

[Kuzu]

I'm not it looks horredus.

Ok?

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