Are The Modern Sonic Games Severely Underrated?

[Jolt_TH]

And that's all that matters. It doesn't matter how well it portrayed Sonic. The gameplay was horrendous, so it's a bad game. I agree that it's portrayal of Sonic was spot on, but that doesn't make it a good game.

No that makes it's gameplay bad. A game isn't just the gameplay, it's graphics, characters, story, level design. You can't have one without the other, that's like saying a cake is bad when really only the fondant icing isn't very good but the cake is.

A game is the sum of all the parts, sure the gameplay is what stops the game being amazing, but the story and character portrayal make the game at least "ok" if not "good" for some.

It's like generations, the gameplay is pretty solid but the story is seriously lacking, that's why a lot if people think of it as "good" or "ok" instead of excellent.

[KingIgort]

I'm gonna have to agree with Kenny here. I'm sure everyone's readying their essay's in rebuttal, but games are there to be played, not watched. Sure, it's great when a game has a compelling story that helps drive the gameplay, but some of the best games I've ever played have had literally no story. Elevating the absolute disaster that is Sonic And The Black Knight from "atrocious" to "ok" just because it has a good story is a little weird.

 

No that makes it's gameplay bad. A game isn't just the gameplay, it's graphics, characters, story, level design. You can't have one without the other, that's like saying a cake is bad when really only the fondant icing isn't very good but the cake is.

 

Of your little list there, one could argue that the last one, "level design," is part of the gameplay.  A game isn't just the gameplay, I agree, but the gameplay is first and foremost the important thing about games. That's why they are games.

[Kidd Ryze]

No that makes it's gameplay bad. A game isn't just the gameplay, it's graphics, characters, story, level design. You can't have one without the other, that's like saying a cake is bad when really only the fondant icing isn't very good but the cake is.

A game is the sum of all the parts, sure the gameplay is what stops the game being amazing, but the story and character portrayal make the game at least "ok" if not "good" for some.

It's like generations, the gameplay is pretty solid but the story is seriously lacking, that's why a lot if people think of it as "good" or "ok" instead of excellent.

 

I agree with KingIgort, gameplay makes a game not story. But your also forgetting that S&TBK is a hack and slash platformer, not an RPG. An RPG's story serves a major asset to a story because that's what drives you to not only play the game, but to immerse yourself in the game's world. A bad story can ruin an RPG, but can't make a shitty game better. On top of that, S&TBK's story isn't anything to write home about, either. It has it's moments, but it doesn't wanna make me endure the terrible gameplay just to make it through.

[Kidd Ryze]

I agree with lots of people here, an issue I'm seeing in the modern Sonic games are definitely the lack of ambition. Games like Sonic: Lost World don't seem like anything but a bland platformer with bland levels. 1st world is another Green Hill knockoff, a desert area, a beach area, a forest area, an ice area, a sky area, and a lava area. All of these locations are painfully overdone in both the Sonic series and platformers in general. What ever happened to the extravagant adevntures across new and interesting locations? Whatever happened to the charm of the story and characters? 

[Kenny_Glover]

No that makes it's gameplay bad. A game isn't just the gameplay, it's graphics, characters, story, level design. You can't have one without the other, that's like saying a cake is bad when really only the fondant icing isn't very good but the cake is.

A game is the sum of all the parts, sure the gameplay is what stops the game being amazing, but the story and character portrayal make the game at least "ok" if not "good" for some.

It's like generations, the gameplay is pretty solid but the story is seriously lacking, that's why a lot if people think of it as "good" or "ok" instead of excellent.

 

 The gameplay is the most important part of the game. It's not all equal. Graphics, characters and story are not as important at all (level design is part of the gameplay). A game can have an amazing story, amazing graphics and amazing characters. But if the gameplay is garbage, the game is garbage. The majority of people consider Sonic Generations to be a great game. The story was not a major complaint.

[Wittymations]

It's like a sandwich.

 

Bread is the gameplay, most important of it all. Without it, sandwich falls apart. Without it, it may as well be a salad. Doesn't mean it's what you like the most, but you need bread to make a sandwich.

 

Story is the meat, cheese the graphics, audio the the dressing.

 

All comes together to make a really awesome sandwich, but without bread, it's not a sandwich.

 

Of course, I don't like too many sandwiches without meat, except a rare occurrence, but all the same.

[Kenny_Glover]

Story is the meat, cheese the graphics, audio the the dressing.

 

 This is all really subjective. Not everyone considers the story, audio or even the graphics to be all that important.

[Wittymations]

 This is all really subjective. Not everyone considers the story, audio or even the graphics to be all that important.

And not everyone doesn't, either, Kenny.

 

If the next Sonic game had Sonic the Hedgehog to be published and Sonic is a green ball, rolling around in a minimal texture area, with a chalkboard scratching sound effect over and over again, do you really expect people to accept this as a Sonic game? Of course not.

 

No, not everyone thinks these other things matter. Someone like, you, for instance, seems to claim it's the only thing that matters. Only. Absolutely only. Okay, fine for you, but not me. Not for a number of people.

 

Thankfully, my sandwich analogy allows for different types of sandwiches. Or, if you prefer toast, then by all means, help yourself to some toast.

 

Personally, I like a whole sandwich.

[Kenny_Glover]

And not everyone doesn't, either, Kenny.

 

If the next Sonic game had Sonic the Hedgehog to be published and Sonic is a green ball, rolling around in a minimal texture area, with a chalkboard scratching sound effect over and over again, do you really expect people to accept this as a Sonic game? Of course not.

 

No, not everyone thinks these other things matter. Someone like, you, for instance, seems to claim it's the only thing that matters. Only. Absolutely only. Okay, fine for you, but not me. Not for a number of people.

 

Thankfully, my sandwich analogy allows for different types of sandwiches. Or, if you prefer toast, then by all means, help yourself to some toast.

 

Personally, I like a whole sandwich.

 

 I'm not saying gameplay is the only thing that matters. But it's the most important. If the graphics, sound and story are awesome but the gameplay sucks, the game will suck and many people would agree. Graphics, plot and music are rarely bad enough to seriously worsen a game. Most people do not care as much for the graphics, plot and music as they do for the gameplay.

[Solkia]

Are we seriously arguing that a GAME with bad GAMEPLAY is a good GAME?

[Wittymations]

 I'm not saying gameplay is the only thing that matters. But it's the most important. If the graphics, sound and story are awesome but the gameplay sucks, the game will suck and many people would agree. Graphics, plot and music are rarely bad enough to seriously worsen a game. Most people do not care as much for the graphics, plot and music as they do for the gameplay.

And that's why bread is the gameplay.

 

You act is if I'm so blind as to believe a game can be loved if it's unplayable. Did I say that? Or didn't I reinforce that, in my analogy, that without bread, you don't have a sandwich?

 

And yes, you have said before, "" about gameplay.

 

I conceded, already, that it's the most important thing, but in this day, when video games can tell Hollywood level stories, there definitely things that come into play and it builds up an identity. That's why other things get judged too. That's why the industry constantly pushes forwards.  That's why graphic power is always improved, that's why Rockstar went out of their way to spend on the celebrity voice actors and giant scripts for Grand Theft Auto, that's why Sonic soundtracks are praised -- as it's the only thing it has.

There's a reason for all this. It does come into play and it can make or break an experience. Don't be so foolish to say it can't. If the next GTA had PS1 era graphics, you can be damn well assured that it will be panned.

 

Yes, gameplay is the most important. But those other factors do, in fact, have a heavy hand in there.

[KingIgort]

Don't be so foolish to say it can't. If the next GTA had PS1 era graphics, you can be damn well assured that it will be panned.

 

Actually, I reckon if Rockstar were to make a GTA game with PS1-era graphics, but marketed it as a fun retro-nostalgia experience, it would probably still do pretty well. Maybe not GTAV well, but still well. A lot of gamers dig that sort of stuff.

 

That's not really relevant to the discussion, and doesn't prove your point wrong or right (your sandwich analogy is pretty much bang on to be honest), it's just an interesting thought I had.

[Kenny_Glover]

And that's why bread is the gameplay.

 

You act is if I'm so blind as to believe a game can be loved if it's unplayable. Did I say that? Or didn't I reinforce that, in my analogy, that without bread, you don't have a sandwich?

 

And yes, you have said before, "" about gameplay.

 

I conceded, already, that it's the most important thing, but in this day, when video games can tell Hollywood level stories, there definitely things that come into play and it builds up an identity. That's why other things get judged too. That's why the industry constantly pushes forwards.  That's why graphic power is always improved, that's why Rockstar went out of their way to spend on the celebrity voice actors and giant scripts for Grand Theft Auto, that's why Sonic soundtracks are praised -- as it's the only thing it has.

There's a reason for all this. It does come into play and it can make or break an experience. Don't be so foolish to say it can't. If the next GTA had PS1 era graphics, you can be damn well assured that it will be panned.

 

Yes, gameplay is the most important. But those other factors do, in fact, have a heavy hand in there.

 

 Gameplay is not all that matters. Sorry if I said otherwise. But it is the most important. I never said graphics can't break a game. But they've rarely ever have. Most people care the most for gameplay. Nothing else is more important to them.

[Kidd Ryze]

Are we seriously arguing that a GAME with bad GAMEPLAY is a good GAME?

 

I think Solkia sums it all up. Story is cool, pretty graphics are cool, a great soundtrack is cool. But they all don't make a game alone. A video game is called a video game for a reason. You are supposed to play it, not glance at the pretty visuals.

[Ekaje]

Also who the fuck plays platformers, especially Sonic, for the plot? The story quality in most Sonic games is either nonexistant or cringeworthy. 

[Soniman]

Hold on a fucking minute, Black Knight is a bad/awful game? From a gameplay standpoint yes, from a narrative standpoint, fuck no.  Black Knight's portrayal of Sonic is one of the very few instances that define Sonic as a character more than it has ever done in the past. Sonic shows his true character in these games and rounds off with fantastic story telling. The game may have been awful gameplay wise, but to completely undermine it as a whole really pisses me off when people can't see the potential in the storybook's writing and character portrayal. 

You can make this same case for something like SLW. This all comes down to opinion really.

[Kenny_Glover]

Also who the fuck plays platformers, especially Sonic, for the plot? The story quality in most Sonic games is either nonexistant or cringeworthy. 

 

 I really disagree. I've enjoyed the plots in many games. The only time I felt the plot was utter garbage was in Sonic 2006.