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The Topic of Over-thinking and Connecting Things in Sonic


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Since I for the life of me cannot find the original topic (No thanks to the Search Function being down at this time), I will be creating this new one until the old one is either found and merged with this, or this one ends up being the only one due to the old one going kaput or something. Now with that out of the way, the point of this topic.

 

This topic serves as a place to overthink and connect things in the Sonic games together in an attempt to SOMEHOW establish things that Sonic Team probably never intended or never even bothered to think of, such as worldbuilding, mythology, or just explain things that just didn't make sense at the time until you gave it more thought.

 

In my case, I'll be starting things off with a personal theory in regards to the Werehog, more specifically, why Sonic ends up becoming a Werehog despite the fact that the Werehog doesn't look anything like Dark Gaia's spawn (minus the stretchy arms, but that's a different part). To explain my theory, I need to go back to SA1 because of two things:

 

The Chaos Emeralds and Chaos

 

Now the Chaos Emeralds are established as having both positive and negative energy, and it is also established in the game that it is possible to reach a super form using either type of energy, as is demonstrated by

 

SUPER SONIC (with Positive Energy)

 

and 

 

Perfect Chaos (with Negative Energy)

 

The latter in particular sticks out for two reasons: the negative energy bit and the beastlike form. We know that Chaos was able to gain his form via the negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds, and that his beast form doesn't really look anything like his default form. While I am aware that Chaos is made of water and thus he could TECHNICALLY choose to be that form, he doesn't exactly have to choose that particular beastlike form.

 

Which of course ties into my theory: That the Werehog is not simply the result of Dark Gaia corrupting Sonic, but also because Sonic was heavily affected by Negative Chaos Energy and was changed into the more BEASTLIKE form.

 

After all, when Sonic was trapped by Eggman's machine, and it was also taking energy out of the Chaos Emeralds as a means to power the cannon that would break the world apart, it is possible/likely that said cannon took out the positive energy of the Chaos Emeralds, thus leaving only the negative energy for Sonic to absorb into his body.

 

That's not to say that Dark Gaia's corruption DIDN'T have some influence; in-game you can see signs of anger (a gameplay mechanic in the form of the Unleashed Mode) frustration (at the beginning when Werehog meets Chip) and Sadness (Amy fails to recognize Sonic), all of which are generally considered negative emotions/traits, and of course the fact that he adopts the stretchy limbs commonly seen on many of Dark Gaia's minions.

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Well, with the Mario & Sonic games...Mario has his own pile of things he's connected to, which can go on forever if you decide to over-think it. That's for another thread, though, since it's more for Mario than for Sonic.

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You wanted over-thinking? You get overthinking.

 

While there's definitely a distinct seperation between the "positive" and "negative" energy of them, I wouldn't say the Chaos Emeralds really have an acknowledgable sense of "good" and "evil" as much as they seem to understand control and order, or the lack thereof. Their names are the Chaos Emeralds, after all.

 

This would be why the Master Emerald would exist in the first place: it is the controller. The Master Emerald has significant effect on what the Chaos Emeralds can / will do because it's sort of it's... multi-plug, if we were to compare the Chaos Emeralds to electrical plugs. It decides when and what they're functional for (whether good or bad), and can be used as their control system, granted the Emeralds are 'plugged in' to the 'multi-plug' (as in, they're not being used by an outside source and are in close range distance) and the user knows what they're doing (which unlike a multi-plug is actually much more complex than knowing how to turn on/off for handling the M.E.). 

 

Meanwhile, reaction and usage may or may not be able to be applied to a similar metaphor. Let's say turning Super Sonic is like consciously deciding to "plug in" to an energy source and synthesize it, meanwhile the negative, beast-like transformations are the reaction to a forced (Werehog) or overcharged (Perfect Chaos) current. One has complete control of the situation and is feeding it directly to itself, meanwhile the other one just absorbs all of it it can at once (willingly or not), without a way to stop itself. 

 

This would be why Sonic manages to absorb all the "positive energy" of the Emerald, because he's in control, his head's on straight, and he moves just at the right wavelength to be able to take it in without losing himself. Perfect Chaos, on the other end, sucks in all the "negative energy" due to it's position to want to destroy all it touches, constantly searching for power and just releasing it on itself any time it comes near it without any holds barred. The Werehog was something Sonic couldn't stop, because it was every bit of negative discharge possible unleashed (heh) into him by force, while the energy he had control of was sapped away.

 

Lastly, this brings the final question: what side does Eggman use? Considering he has no ability to absorb ANY Chaos energy (if he did it'd probably kill him), he uses machines. Machines, with no personality to steer them one way or another, doesn't really run on either; instead consuming Chaos energy in general. Which, in the end, makes him potentially the most dangerous of them all (but of course!).

 

But that's just a theory. A Sonic theory. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Dark Gaia infected everyone on the planet by praying in their doubts and pushing them to the most exaggerated negative emotions possible.

 

Sonic has pretty much no doubts at all in his mind, since there's always something he can believe in- himself- and thus the Dark Gaia had to go somewhere else in him- mutating him to something closer to the spawnlings.

 

Amy is a midway point. She's not so absurdely confident that the energy transforms her phisically, but she still has more confidence than the average person, enough control to appear non-plussed by it all- the power of believing in Sonic.

 

tl;dr- Sonic's so stubborn he became a werewolf, Amy believes in him enough to not have become overpowered by negative feelings.

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Dark Gaia infected everyone on the planet by praying in their doubts and pushing them to the most exaggerated negative emotions possible.

 

Sonic has pretty much no doubts at all in his mind, since there's always something he can believe in- himself- and thus the Dark Gaia had to go somewhere else in him- mutating him to something closer to the spawnlings.

 

Amy is a midway point. She's not so absurdely confident that the energy transforms her phisically, but she still has more confidence than the average person, enough control to appear non-plussed by it all- the power of believing in Sonic.

 

tl;dr- Sonic's so stubborn he became a werewolf, Amy believes in him enough to not have become overpowered by negative feelings.

So like, how does that work for Prof. Pickle?  :mellow:

He's like completely immune for like no explanation whatsoever.

 

Meanwhile, reaction and usage may or may not be able to be applied to a similar metaphor. Let's say turning Super Sonic is like consciously deciding to "plug in" to an energy source and synthesize it, meanwhile the negative, beast-like transformations are the reaction to a forced (Werehog) or overcharged (Perfect Chaos) current. One has complete control of the situation and is feeding it directly to itself, meanwhile the other one just absorbs all of it it can at once (willingly or not), without a way to stop itself. 

Would'nt that mean that the Master Emerald could literally stop anything and everything that has to do with the Chaos Emeralds.

By that Logic, Sonic would've been done in Doomsday Zone in Sonic 3, since Eggman could just force the Chaos energy out of him with the Master Emerald. In fact, a lot of situations in the series could be avoided altogether. 

Perfect Chaos could be shut down altogether with just the word (or phrase) from Knuckles.

 

The Master Emerald is practically the most underused and overpowered object in the Sonic Universe. It seems like it's almost never used for it's most useful purpose. 

Knuckles could save the word in an instance, but he's so busy doing everything except protecting it!  :lol:

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So like, how does that work for Prof. Pickle?  :mellow:

He's like completely immune for like no explanation whatsoever.

 

Would'nt that mean that the Master Emerald could literally stop anything and everything that has to do with the Chaos Emeralds.

By that Logic, Sonic would've been done in Doomsday Zone in Sonic 3, since Eggman could just force the Chaos energy out of him with the Master Emerald. In fact, a lot of situations in the series could be avoided altogether. 

Perfect Chaos could be shut down altogether with just the word (or phrase) from Knuckles.

 

The Master Emerald is practically the most underused and overpowered object in the Sonic Universe. It seems like it's almost never used for it's most useful purpose. 

Knuckles could save the word in an instance, but he's so busy doing everything except protecting it!  :lol:

For Pickle, I'd say it's a combination of having a lot of experience with numerous emotions and doubts and having come to terms with them, and maybe the Gaia Manuscripts potentially providing some kind of protection.

 

For the Master Emerald...eh it's possible that Knuckles isn't completely aware of the full capabilities the Master Emerald possesses due to being the last of his kind/limited information on what his species as a whole is like and what the Master Emerald is capable of.

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For Pickle, I'd say it's a combination of having a lot of experience with numerous emotions and doubts and having come to terms with them, and maybe the Gaia Manuscripts potentially providing some kind of protection.

It's funny because he rarely ever shows any kind of emotion in the game. =P

But I guess that would explain why Eggman wasn't manipulated by Gaia as well.

 

For the Master Emerald...eh it's possible that Knuckles isn't completely aware of the full capabilities the Master Emerald possesses due to being the last of his kind/limited information on what his species as a whole is like and what the Master Emerald is capable of.

I guess Knuckles just assumed since it didn't really work in Sa2 it would never work at all.

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It's funny because he rarely ever shows any kind of emotion in the game. =P

But I guess that would explain why Eggman wasn't manipulated by Gaia as well.

I'm of the opinion that Eggman is so egotistical that the difference is barely noticeable...

 

That or he did get affected and Dark Gaia deliberately manipulated him into restoring it.

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Would'nt that mean that the Master Emerald could literally stop anything and everything that has to do with the Chaos Emeralds.

By that Logic, Sonic would've been done in Doomsday Zone in Sonic 3, since Eggman could just force the Chaos energy out of him with the Master Emerald. In fact, a lot of situations in the series could be avoided altogether. 

Perfect Chaos could be shut down altogether with just the word (or phrase) from Knuckles.

 

The Master Emerald is practically the most underused and overpowered object in the Sonic Universe. It seems like it's almost never used for it's most useful purpose. 

Knuckles could save the word in an instance, but he's so busy doing everything except protecting it!  :lol:

 

No, not quite.

 

As I mentioned, the emeralds would have to have nothing interfering it, and be close by as well. This explains why they have to bring them all around the M.E. just to make something happen, and why Sonic or Knuckles or whoever can't just chant the "servers of the Seven Chaos" chant when they've got the M.E. and are near Eggman with the Emeralds, or vice versa. 

 

Then there's the whole "managing to control it", which may be a lot more than just saying the chant and that be it.

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So like, how does that work for Prof. Pickle?  :mellow:

He's like completely immune for like no explanation whatsoever.

 

As far as I recall, he's actually shown succumbing to despair and negative feelings later on. Alternatively, he could just be absent-minded enough that it made near to no difference to him.

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No, not quite.

 

As I mentioned, the emeralds would have to have nothing interfering it, and be close by as well. This explains why they have to bring them all around the M.E. just to make something happen, and why Sonic or Knuckles or whoever can't just chant the "servers of the Seven Chaos" chant when they've got the M.E. and are near Eggman with the Emeralds, or vice versa. 

 

Then there's the whole "managing to control it", which may be a lot more than just saying the chant and that be it.

To be fair, they've never actually tried to do that as of yet.

And bringing the Emeralds around the Master Emerald has yet to yield a reaction all the same.

 

Also, I doubt that it takes that much to harness the power of the Master Emerald since Mecha Sonic, A robot with no soul, was capable of super charging itself in less than a few seconds.

 

GENESIS--Sonic%20and%20Knuckles%20%20Son

(I couldn't find a gif so this will have to suffice)

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To be fair, they've never actually tried to do that as of yet.

And bringing the Emeralds around the Master Emerald has yet to yield a reaction all the same.

 

Also, I doubt that it takes that much to harness the power of the Master Emerald since Mecha Sonic, A robot with no soul, was capable of super charging itself in less than a few seconds.

 

Right. Which I mention right here.

 

Lastly, this brings the final question: what side does Eggman use? Considering he has no ability to absorb ANY Chaos energy (if he did it'd probably kill him), he uses machines. Machines, with no personality to steer them one way or another, doesn't really run on either; instead consuming Chaos energy in general. Which, in the end, makes him potentially the most dangerous of them all (but of course!).

 

Eggman can design his machinery to drain/absorb Chaos Emerald or M.E. energy, but that doesn't mean it's an easy feat. Not anyone can just go up to them and just become "super" or have a substainable use for the energy right then and there. Only a bare few can (which the series has actually been a bit generous about, considering the amount who can transform with it). I'd imagine, considering it being pure chaotic energy manifested, it'd probably be too much for the average joe and could probably kill a guy, particularly Eggman in this case. Which is why his robots are designed to use them.

 

But even then, they seem to only be able to use them in instances. The Death Egg Robo II from S3K can use the M.E. to shoot massive laser beams, but only after charging up, using it and then cooling down. In the same kind of manner, Mecha Sonic (as you posted) can only be super for so long, and then loses it after a few seconds, requiring him to go and charge up again. So it's not even perfect.

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But even then, they seem to only be able to use them in instances. The Death Egg Robo II from S3K can use the M.E. to shoot massive laser beams, but only after charging up, using it and then cooling down. In the same kind of manner, Mecha Sonic (as you posted) can only be super for so long, and then loses it after a few seconds, requiring him to go and charge up again. So it's not even perfect.

That just seems like the natural occurrence of running out of the energy that even organic users aren't immune to.

 

Eggman can design his machinery to drain/absorb Chaos Emerald or M.E. energy, but that doesn't mean it's an easy feat. Not anyone can just go up to them and just become "super" or have a substainable use for the energy right then and there. Only a bare few can (which the series has actually been a bit generous about, considering the amount who can transform with it). I'd imagine, considering it being pure chaotic energy manifested, it'd probably be too much for the average joe and could probably kill a guy, particularly Eggman in this case. Which is why his robots are designed to use them.

I presume it's just something that these smart guys just know how to do since, Gerald was capable of producing 2 machines (Emerl and the Eclipse Cannon) and 2 organisms (Shadow and the Biolizard) that could harness the power all the same. Even Tails can make machines that run off of the energy. Like who hasn't made a machine that was capable of doing it?

 

It almost makes it seem like machines are just the perfect candidate for it.

 

EDIT: Even aliens can harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds. There doesn't seem to be any actual set rules for someone being capable of harnessing the power. It's probably a kind of "chosen one" sort of thing that the Emeralds bestow upon rare individuals. Not sure how that would work with machines though.

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As far as I recall, he's actually shown succumbing to despair and negative feelings later on. Alternatively, he could just be absent-minded enough that it made near to no difference to him.

 

Okay, then how does it work for Tails? He doesn't get effected at all from what I remember. Maybe he just believes everything will be alright because Sonic's on the job?

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Okay, then how does it work for Tails? He doesn't get effected at all from what I remember. Maybe he just believes everything will be alright because Sonic's on the job?

My personal thought on that is that how badly Dark Gaia affects people depends on whether they have regrets or doubts about themselves; A person with more doubts and regrets for example would be more vulnerable to being corrupted. That being said, since IIRC there are some people in the game who don't really seem to have any such doubts and regrets yet STILL get corrupted, I think it also partially depends on how in control the person is of themselves/how aware they are of their own failings and the like and how much they choose to let themselves be affected by it.

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Okay, then how does it work for Tails? He doesn't get effected at all from what I remember. Maybe he just believes everything will be alright because Sonic's on the job?

Maybe Tails' WAS slightly affected, in his introduction cutscene. Maybe Dark Gaia's influence increased Tails' fear and caused him to fly away rather than fight them off.

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Yeah, you're starting to get the hang of it :V Sonic is unaffected mentally at all. Tails, Amy, Pickle seem to at most have a few moments of affliction. Regular people seem to be more and more affected. I'm chalking that to gameplay reasons, in the same way as the old "all NPCs are human so the animal characters are more notable" logic- we mostly only see afflicted characters since they're the ones relevant.

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I assumed Dark Gaia spawn simply didn't attack everyone, perhaps due to there being more people than Dark Gaia spawn and possibly Dark Gaia spawn having to be in close proximity to posses someone.

 

It makes sense as well that some would be more susceptible than others and that weaker Dark Gaia spawn may pass up on potential hosts it may be unable to subdue or get nourishment (negativity) from.

 

As for Dr. Eggman, well he is dark/negative in a sense but Dark Gaia seems to attack those that are impressionable to it in some way, it's one thing identifying a source of darkness, tapping into it or bending it to your will is another. Eggman's every bit as a persistant, tenacious git as Sonic is, he'd have to be in order to stare years of endless failure in the face and not give a devolving damn (that said, Eggman hasn't had the crap beaten out of him for his efforts as Sonic has.). That said It helps that Eggman's constantly in a flying machine and is armed to the teeth.

This does bring into question other characters, Sonic is supposed to be an unusual case, but are Tails and Amy not strong enough? There's possibly a deliberate sidestep there, they are not successfully preyed upon, though it seems likely the answer is no; not in that sense. Sonic is the tenacious git to end all tenacious gits.

 

I think rather than Dark Gaia simply parasitising Sonic, Dark Gaia would not have attacked Sonic under normal circumstances: because Sonic is useless as a host and is thousands of miles from the surface where Dark Gaia is colonising.

I figure Sonic and Dark Gaia may have been connected by being on opposite ends of the beam Eggman fires; Sonic reflexively absorbed the easiest-obtained energy source since he just had the chaos emeralds pulled from him, if anything Sonic became (unintentionally) parasitic by drawing on Dark Gaia's energy.

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for a time i though Chip's presence as Light GAIA makes that Sonic can still being himself inside..

 

a sort of equality between all the dark GAIA energy ( that he received thanks to eggman) and Chip's energy... just like Sonic though.. he was protecting him... if only then Chip didn't tell Sonic it was him all the time :D ahah

 

but.. i found it would fit somehow... even before Sonic falls over Chip the first time they met..

the green shield that protected Sonic from fall too hard .... it would have been just Chip protecting him .(we know he has been alive for ages..so he might knew him as the hero he is).. and then when Sonic fell over him he just got the amnesia...

 

and not just because Eggman awaked him before it was the time...

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I think it's a mistake to think of it as Dark Gaia "infecting" Sonic, or anything along those lines. I certainly don't see any smoky purple tentacles reaching up into space and poking Sonic until he transforms. The only apparent cause of Sonic's initial transformation is Eggman's machine and the energy it sucks out of the emeralds.

Of course, there is some connection between that energy and Dark Gaia. Sonic's "cured" when Dark Gaia sucks it out of him, and obviously it was used to awaken Dark Gaia in the first place. So what is it, exactly?

Personally, I think they're one and the same. Dark Gaia's power is negative chaos energy. That's why Eggman's plan even worked in the first place; his machine forced the emeralds to generate an immense amount of negative energy, then force-fed it to the planet to combine with what negative energy had already built up inside it. Together that was nearly enough to fully form Dark Gaia, while Light Gaia incarnated in a nearly-powerless, amnesiac form. And it was only by restoring the emeralds, allowing them to produce positive energy, that Light Gaia was able to start catching up.

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In regards to Amy Rose, I feel that the reason for her always somehow mistaking a hedgehog for Sonic is in part due to impulsiveness AND that she possesses the ability to sense the Chaos Energy in other people. However, due to her lack of training in the use of Chaos Energy or experience through trial and error like Sonic, Knuckles, and Shadow, she is able to sort of sense energy readings SIMILAR to Sonic, but isn't able to completely distinguish them from Sonic, and combined with her impulsive tendencies due to needing to catch Sonic BEFORE he sees her and runs away, you get her glomping people who clearly aren't Sonic (or are Sonic but don't look like him; hi Werehog!).

 

The best way to put it is to think of a minimap from one of those real-time strategy games like Starcraft, in that you can SEE the little red blobs, but you can't really distinguish which is which until you're up close and personal.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually a better way to explain her seeming ability to teleport to wherever Sonic is will require me to explain my thoughts on Chaos Control. The name itself explains the nature of the technique: It tears through time and space to CREATE a shortcut. The thing is however, is that this requires a lot of energy to do since the universe would be rather resilient to changing as a means to prevent itself from collapsing in on itself, hence why a Chaos Emerald is usually needed to pull it off, with only the likes of Shadow being the exception due to his nature as an artificial being with a built in amount of Chaos Energy (kinda like a battery if you will).

 

Amy's method of teleporting is actually more due to the way the universe works; basically due to the nature of the universe, there are already small pockets and tunnels built into the universe that most normal people would not be able to see or find. Amy, being able to sense Chaos Energy according to my above point, is able to use these shortcuts to allow her to get to a different location. The difference between this and Chaos Control however, is that while Chaos Control is more about tearing a hole and creating your own path through the fabric of space and time, Amy's method is more about taking a pre-existing tunnel which already HAS a definite destination. As a result, while the former can allow for you to appear anywhere you want presuming you have the power to do so, the latter only allows you to go to wherever the tunnel ends.

 

Basically, it's the difference between coming up to a wall and punching it down to make a hole to get through, vs just going around it via a pre-existing hole.

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It's been made clear that she doesn't teleport though, she just sorta finds him when she looks.

Her innate ability to sense Sonic makes plenty of sense though, given the fact that she can simply tell where Sonic is or has been, just by being there. Or in her own words "her girlish intuition".

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It's been made clear that she doesn't teleport though, she just sorta finds him when she looks.

Her innate ability to sense Sonic makes plenty of sense though, given the fact that she can simply tell where Sonic is or has been, just by being there. Or in her own words "her girlish intuition".

I was really trying to find an explanation as to how she managed to get into Prison Island in SA2.

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I agree with above, there is no indication Amy teleports, Chaos Control rifts appear to close as soon as their creator/s go through them as well.

 

Amy sensing chaos energy and thus being able to find Sonic through that makes some sense, and that Silver and Shadow seeming similar in the chaos energy they have about their person may explain the confusion, but that could lead her into going in the wrong direction (though her doing so may be why she bumped into Shadow and Silver in the first place)

I would think if they had chaos energy auras, they would be different though, particularly Sonic when he's in werehog form. I'd assume his aura would have been negative rather than positive, or at least different,due to the chaos emeralds being drained if not due to Dark Gaia,but maybe they have something about their auras which is constant.

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