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Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)


Badnik Mechanic

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Standard PR fluff where a developer tries to be honest and admit faults in a product before quickly spinning them into a positive because otherwise he gets sued.

 

Standard response from SSMB where there's several people who don't get how PR works and demand that people be brutally honest and risk their entire future in their career of choice doing so just because they're butthurt about getting a bad game.  =U

 

I only see all of three, four people in this thread genuinely angry about him not being 100% truthful about the game's reception in the interview.

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Well in the same time, could it probably say it in a single nice way too. maybe he can't tell it by the look of it.

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I only see all of three, four people in this thread genuinely angry about him not being 100% truthful about the game's reception in the interview.

 

I made absoloutely sure I said "several people" to make it clear I wasn't talking about everyone.  The reason I've pointed it out is because I'm just surprised that there's still any at all when this has happened numerous times over Boom's lifecycle.

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I feel bad for Stephen for having such a bad game on his name, and I can get it if he really thinks that the game was good. But at the same time, so much of what he says doesn't match up with what the ended up in the game that it's hard for me to believe that he was being honest here.

 

Obviously he's just waffling his PR talk here, especially when he mentions short development time and stuff which we know can't be true.

 

Standard response from SSMB where there's several people who don't get how PR works and demand that people be brutally honest and risk their entire future in their career of choice doing so just because they're butthurt about getting a bad game.  =U

 

Errr, a simple "the games didn't sell well and we admit that" type of comment instead of "it was a bestseller and super popular yay" would've been just fine. I didn't want him to honestly say it sucked so bad. =P

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To add to my previous post: even if everything he said in the interview isn't necessarily true, I have no doubt that there must have been a lot of problems during the development of the game that he had to put up with. And considering how much he likely tried to make it a good game, I can see why he'd still defend it.

 

Obviously he's just waffling his PR talk here, especially when he mentions short development time and stuff which we know can't be true.

 

Technically the development time of what actually made it into the final game was likely short.

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Technically the development time of what actually made it into the final game was likely short.

 

You know, it's an odd one.

 

On the one hand we have documentation which shows that game was in development for longer than the "2 years" which is quoted. 

 

Yet at the same time we have all this documentation, video, concept art and even screenshots which shows the game running on Xbox 360's, all these photos showing PS3's surrounded by Boom material. 

 

Yet barely anything showing the game running on a Wii U with the exception of one backstage photo which came out after the game was announced. 

 

Kinda makes you wonder if the game was even originally supposed to be on the Wii U?

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I'm pretty sure it's pretty safe to say that Rise of Lyric wasn't supposed to be Wii U exclusive, like at all. Huh, that Nintendo exclusive contract really didn't work out that great for Sega. Makes me wonder what would the game might've been at its early build? Obviously, better than the actual product of course.

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I'm pretty sure it's pretty safe to say that Rise of Lyric wasn't supposed to be Wii U exclusive, like at all. Huh, that Nintendo exclusive contract really didn't work out that great for Sega. Makes me wonder what would the game might've been at its early build? Obviously, better than the actual product of course.

 

I'm almost wondering if after Lost World's iffy sales, they decided to put Boom on Wii U just to get the deal over and done with so they could do the next "proper" game on another console without concern for the platform.  It's funny actually coz Boom would have probably sold better on the other consoles since it had that kinda slightly gritty action/adventure vibe most of their kid-friendly games do, always just a little less colourful than Nintendo.  And of course the game would have probably been better built.

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A lot of game franchises that are still running since the nineties (in my opinion by far the best decade of gaming) have been ruined, because the publishers or developers think that they need to reinvent the franchise to reach a wider audience. This is in my opinion a very wrong line of thought, as such long running franchises have a big fanbase and the number 1 thing the developers need to do is to make sure that they create games for that very fanbase and make sure that they are most satisfied. This way, the franchise will sustain high recognition and keep its identity. The idea of reinventing for a wider audience makes the franchise lose focus, some fans go away, some new ones come, but they are not united and want different things, the overall regard for the franchise suffers, no one is ever completely satisfied and it only gets worse over time. Sonic and Tomb Raider are perfect examples for this. That being said, there is nothing wrong with spin-offs and new ideas. New ideas are always very welcome, as long as they keep the spirit of the original concept, so that it wouldn't displease the core fanbase, and spin-offs are acceptable if they are clearly marketed as such and are of high quality in their own right.

 

For what it's worth, while I don't think that there should be a desperation to please the core fanbase at all costs, we've seen a lot of developers and publishers in the past few years swing too far the other way and decide that they can just slough off the core fanbase - or think they can slap the brand name on whatever they want and the core will buy it.  We've been in a horror story era of "outsource and reboot" for quite a few years now, and the result has almost always been a dead franchise.  And the truth is it doesn't have as much to do with creativity as developing on the cheap to make a quick buck.

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I guess it would've sold better but I seem to really doubt that the reception would've been any better, granted might've been better than  what it got now but might've got average reviews and the like. But I guess it really depends what changes would've happened if the game was non-Nintendo. :/

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Sales probably would've been worse. Sonic games tend to sell more on Nintendo platforms, and SEGA has little to compete with due to the drought. Also Nintendo helped pay for marketing and publishing, and I'm sure the contract itself gave SEGA money. In the end, Nintendo paid SEGA to release a poopy game on their system.

 

I believe the short development time statement. The game was basically rebuilt, and the original teaser had a ton of changes compared to the final game. Before the forum wipe, I posted some comparison screenshots. The first hub world wasn't even finished! Actually, the game might not have even been rebuilt. I bet the game just went through development hell.

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I think there's some points here that have basis but are somewhat off the mark.

 

People sick of classic/Dreamcast era: This is probably more to do with the endless remakes, the vast majority of which which are far below the quality of the original, rather than the actual games(though obviously certain things are outdated).

 

People sick of speed: More specifically people are probably sick of the boost or the fact the elements of speed don't mesh too well with the platforming.

 

People really liked the Co-op: Well there's nothing wrong with the idea I suppose, but Sonic Boom's co-op breaks the game even more.

Solo-Sonic vs Multiple characters: agreed entirely.

Online multiplayer: Don't see why not.

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I wish someone brought up the Big Red Button exodus to him. Like I understand the short development cycle and rush to get it out before Christmas, but wouldn't this be more difficult when half your staff is laid off?

 

Edit: The staff left in July, which included the original producer of Sonic Boom. http://www.tssznews.com/2014/11/15/reports-suggest-brb-exodus-ahead-of-sonic-boom-launch/

 

The Nintendo/Sega contract was revealed in May. http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/sonic_lost_world/news/sega_enters_into_three-title_sonic_exclusivity_agreement_with_nintendo.html

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I think there's some points here that have basis but are somewhat off the mark.

 

People sick of classic/Dreamcast era: This is probably more to do with the endless remakes, the vast amjority of which which are far below the quality of the original, rather than the actual games(though obviously certain things are outdated).

 

The classic games have only been remade twice -Sonic Jam for the main four Genesis titles, and the recent mobile releases from Taxman and Stealth concerning Sonic 1, 2, and CD (though CD was released for consoles). The Dreamcast games haven't been remade, either. Endless ports would be a more accurate description, and that only applies to the Genesis games more than the Dreamcast games (though the enhanced re-releases of the Adventure games for the Gamecube weren't received as well as the original releases).

 

That and I think the complaints weren't so much concerning ports/remakes than they were of rehashing of aesthetics/visuals from the classic era-namely because of Sonic 4, Generations (though it's excused by some for being an anniversary title) and Lost World.

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ikVth6xpBty6g.gif

 

I'm tired of being sophisticated and proper when it comes to reacting to their bullshit. It's clearly not working. 

 

This is quite the Sonic Boom-Shell they dropped on us.

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Maybe by speed Frost was talking about the frame rate. 60fps in Lost World was just too much of an eye sore. 10fps is where it's at.

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"Sonic is not strong enough to be a solo adventure"

 

"The future of Sonic is Co-Op"

 

What? Does Stephen even understand that Co-op cannot work without sacrificing the main draw to this franchise, speed? The momentum based gameplay just doesn't work with co-op because the other player(s) won't necessarily be able to keep up. As a result, the lead player has to slow down, or the other players will simply be dragged, and as a result it won't be fun to play. 

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I dunno. Sonic and co-op is a pretty tall order, but I don't want to say it's an impossible one. Its just that nobody's got it right yet. Arguably Heroes came closest to a formula that would work, and oddly enough it was only single player. Boom is really a Sonic game in name only, so it's not a good point to judge from, Advance 3 made co-op wholly pointless and S4E2 was... S4.

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Sales probably would've been worse. Sonic games tend to sell more on Nintendo platforms, and SEGA has little to compete with due to the drought. Also Nintendo helped pay for marketing and publishing, and I'm sure the contract itself gave SEGA money. In the end, Nintendo paid SEGA to release a poopy game on their system.

 

I believe the short development time statement. The game was basically rebuilt, and the original teaser had a ton of changes compared to the final game. Before the forum wipe, I posted some comparison screenshots. The first hub world wasn't even finished! Actually, the game might not have even been rebuilt. I bet the game just went through development hell.

Sonic sells where the kids are - I wouldn't call that Wii U purely on the basis that pretty much the entire install base is Nintendo die-hards and not much else. If the game was actually not awful and available on the two most popular consoles out right now (plus PC because why not) I don't doubt for a second it would have sold astronomically better than the really shitty game exclusive to the system nobody cares about that we ended up getting.

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I agree that releasing RoL on Sony's and Microsoft's console would've won more sales, but the game would still be a mess. It's funny that SEGA stated Sonic does better on Nintendo, because everytime I go on the PSStore, at least one Sonic games is in the 20 top sellers of the month. And due to the lack of a decent Sony platformer character, Sonic have almost no competition, while on Nintendo, it's the exactly opposite. SEGA propably had the illusion of that due to Colors sucess, but the matter of fact is, Colors was a good game. If the game is good, it really doesn't fucking matter if it's on thel Atari 2600, or on a Xbox One.

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I think if they had never tried to rush it onto the Wii U to begin with it woud be more technically competent. I doubt it would have been very good no matter the circumstances, simply due to the direction they decided to take the game, but at the very least it'd be less broken.

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I'd be thankful it didn't make it to other consoles, tbh. It definitely suffered from a technical perspective whenever moving it to Wii U (which blows), but at the same time it also hurt the sales and reception of a side-series that had severely misguided intentions. Sure, it would've made a decent Jak/Ratchet expy maybe, but it wouldn't have done anything good for the Sonic series as a whole.

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I'd be thankful it didn't make it to other consoles, tbh. It definitely suffered from a technical perspective whenever moving it to Wii U (which blows), but at the same time it also hurt the sales and reception of a side-series that had severely misguided intentions. Sure, it would've made a decent Jak/Ratchet expy maybe, but it wouldn't have done anything good for the Sonic series as a whole.

 

I still have to maintain that Boom was bad and deserved to do bad. 

 

And the really annoying thing is that it doesn't have to be bad at all. But it seems that with every decision BRB and SEGA were faced with, they made the wrong one. Nothing new there for SEGA though.

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