Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)

[Badnik Mechanic]

I wonder if BRB will ever reschedule those interviews they were going to, it would be nice to get some contractor opinions on the whole situation.

[SSF1991]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they never rescheduled them.

[Dizcrybe]

I think SEGA should just put the Boom games behind them for good.

[Blue Blood]

I wonder if BRB will ever reschedule those interviews they were going to, it would be nice to get some contractor opinions on the whole situation.

 

Maybe after Sonic Team release that patch for Sonic 4's physics.

[Autosaver]

Sonic sells where the kids are - I wouldn't call that Wii U purely on the basis...

Bro, do you even Miiverse?

[Blue Blood]

Bro, do you even Miiverse?

 

SEGA's got a great history with Nintendo, because they've frequently attracted the same crowd that's more likely to buy Sonic games. The Wii U generally has a younger userbase I'm sure, but it's like, teeny tiny.

[Sami]

I'd be thankful it didn't make it to other consoles, tbh. It definitely suffered from a technical perspective whenever moving it to Wii U (which blows), but at the same time it also hurt the sales and reception of a side-series that had severely misguided intentions. Sure, it would've made a decent Jak/Ratchet expy maybe, but it wouldn't have done anything good for the Sonic series as a whole.

My theory is that SEGA saw Lost World tank and consequently decided to shit out their third Nintendo exclusive to fill up the contract quickly so that the big budget Sonic Team A game actually has a chance at being financially successful.

I'm perfectly fine with that to be honest.

[Wraith]

My theory is that SEGA saw Lost World tank and consequently decided to shit out their third Nintendo exclusive to fill up the contract quickly so that the big budget Sonic Team A game actually has a chance at being financially successful.

I'm perfectly fine with that to be honest.

 

The thing with that is that means the third game was being developed with the Wii U in mind, so whatever it is, it probably wouldn't be taking huge advantage of what the PS4/X1 is capable of.

[Sami]

The thing with that is that means the third game was being developed with the Wii U in mind, so whatever it is, it probably wouldn't be taking huge advantage of what the PS4/X1 is capable of.

That'd still be the case if there are plans to make it available on Wii U as a multiplat anyway. I really hope that isn't true though.

Alternatively that could explain why development has been taking so long.

[Diamond Sonic]

I particularly love it when Frost alludes to how the team might have overlooked the speed element in Sonic Boom. That speed wasn't high on the priority list of how to make a Sonic game. Completely hysterical.

 

Imagine if the new DmC team didn't think a spectacle fighter would be important for making the new DmC. Imagine if the Rayman Origins team didn't think maybe it might be worth putting platforming as the lead design choice. Hell, imagine if the new Call of Duty was designed by a team who thought fast-paced shooting wasn't important for the title.

 

How did SEGA think it was a good idea to give their most important, and fragile, franchise to a team who knew nothing about the core philosophy of the series.

[FourCartridge]

How did SEGA think it was a good idea to give their most important, and fragile, franchise to a team who knew nothing about the core philosophy of the series.

 

Most of what we've seen behind the curtain implies that the concept for Boom was floating around back as far as the Unleashed days, back when it was a very common idea that Sonic Team should be replaced (they poured a lot of effort into Unleashed and it still got panned). Given most of the "Boost2win" comments from the fanbase, which has a history of getting it's feedback horribly mangled, and declining popularity for the series, one can at least hazard a guess as to what was going through the minds of the suits at SEGA.

[Gabz Girl]

I'm glad it failed because this means we won't be getting anymore Sonic Boom games in the future (at least I hope so), but on the other hand it sucks that this game had to end the Nintendo exclusivity on a really bad note. They really shouldn't have chosen BRB to work on this game especially with someone like Frost behind the wheel (no offense to the guy but how can you say speed was not high priority in a Sonic game?).

[Diamond Sonic]

Most of what we've seen behind the curtain implies that the concept for Boom was floating around back as far as the Unleashed days, back when it was a very common idea that Sonic Team should be replaced (they poured a lot of effort into Unleashed and it still got panned). Given most of the "Boost2win" comments from the fanbase, which has a history of getting it's feedback horribly mangled, and declining popularity for the series, one can at least hazard a guess as to what was going through the minds of the suits at SEGA.

 

You know I really don't think SEGA cares about the people who compained about 'Boost2Win'. It's not the most widely held opinion. I think that the many, many complaints about the slow Werehog and Hub Worlds were a much bigger issue for SEGA. If anything, the 'Boost2Win' sections of Unleashed were the outright success, forming the foundations for both Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations.

 

Sonic Boom was slow because the team working on it had no idea how to make the fast-paced action found in Sonic titles. It's not entirely their fault, they haven't had the same level of experience as Sonic Team and DIMPS with these kind of games. It's SEGA thinking it's a good idea to throw their best IP at an untested developer, which has no experience in Sonic, to make a vanguard title for a new marketing PR that's the shocking thing here.

[azoo]

That'd still be the case if there are plans to make it available on Wii U as a multiplat anyway. I really hope that isn't true though.

Alternatively that could explain why development has been taking so long.

 

I'm okay with that. Mostly because I'm still convinced that you can make more of less with enough workaround and elbow grease, and that it's the smart thing to do when making a game in any case. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Sure, that means longer development time, but it also means no console goes without a pretty version of the game, instead it's just that the other two get an even prettier one. And I'm sure Sega doesn't want to not go without releasing on a Nintendo console if they can help it, whether it's on the Wii U or not.

 

Colors existed solely as compensation for not being able to port Generations to Wii, right? Considering there's less of a gap this time around, I'll be more surprised if they don't go for a release on all three platforms.

 

You know I really don't think SEGA cares about the people who compained about 'Boost2Win'. It's not the most widely held opinion. I think that the many, many complaints about the slow Werehog and Hub Worlds were a much bigger issue for SEGA. If anything, the 'Boost2Win' sections of Unleashed were the outright success, forming the foundations for both Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations.

 

But they jumped ship from it anyways. The reason why is probably being that the developers themselves realized that the past 3 games they made featuring it did just about everything they could do with it. Granted they know it was a huge success, but a smart Sonic Team would move on to more flexible ideas, which it seems like they did (or, well, tried).

[Sami]

I'm okay with that. Mostly because I'm still convinced that you can make more of less with enough workaround and elbow grease, and that it's the smart thing to do when making a game in any case. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Sure, that means longer development time, but it also means no console goes without a pretty version of the game, instead it's just that the other two get an even prettier one.

boi I ain't gonna start this convo again 'cause we've been through this song and dance a million times before, but I'ma just say that the tech difference between the Wii U and XB1 alone is so vast that the former is nothing more than a major handicap for game design. 

 

I want a current gen Sonic game. And before we fall into semantics, you know what I mean by that. A PS4 Sonic game to the core - not a Wii U game wearing pretty makeup. It opens the realms of possibility far beyond graphics alone and into actual game design. Sonic Adventure was absolutely impossible on the Saturn. Sonic Unleashed was impossible on the Dreamcast/Gamecube. This next game should be impossible on the PS3/Wii U. 

 

I'm not interested in going through the details of the situation from a tech and budget perspective (since, again, we've done it all before pre-wipe) but the least we can do is agree on the fact that ditching Wii U grants much greater possibilities in design. We have no idea whether or not Sonic Team has the capability to take advantage of those possibilities, nor do we know if they'll try. But the fact remains that the Wii U is a ball and chain on the game design regardless.

[Diamond Sonic]

The Wii U has by far the best games of this current generation though  .

 

A Sonic game designed with the Wii U in mind wouldn't necessarily make it bad.

[Sami]

The Wii U has by far the best games of this current generation though

 

I completely disagree, and honestly I'm not sure why you think this is a relevant thing to bring up at all.

[Diamond Sonic]

I completely disagree, and honestly I'm not sure why you think this is a relevant thing to bring up at all.

 

Super Mario 3D World, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros Wii U, Captain Toad, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3.

 

Milestones ahead of quality in terms of PS4 and Xbox One games. And I don't have an agenda, I own all systems and a gaming PC.

 

I just find it funny that people bash the Wii U when it's far better than the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of gaming, especially in the platformer department that Sonic is in.

[Wraith]

The Wii U has by far the best games of this current generation though  .

 

 

cough cough

 

 

 

Yeah its a handheld but it still counts >:U

 

 

 

A Sonic game designed with the Wii U in mind wouldn't necessarily make it bad.

 

I agree with this though, and while I'd like to see what Sonic Team could pull off on new hardware, it's not a deal breaker or anything if they stick with the Wii U. A bit disappointing, but a solid game could still easily be made.

[Sami]

Super Mario 3D World, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros Wii U, Captain Toad, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3.

 

Milestones ahead of quality in terms of PS4 and Xbox One games. And I don't have an agenda, I own all systems and a gaming PC.

 

I just find it funny that people bash the Wii U when it's far better than the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of gaming, especially in the platformer department that Sonic is in.

 

I don't care because that's not relevant to the discussion we're having.

 

Call me when you want to talk tech. A grocery list of your favorite games means nothing to me.

[azoo]

boi I ain't gonna start this convo again 'cause we've been through this song and dance a million times before, but I'ma just say that the tech difference between the Wii U and XB1 alone is so vast that the former is nothing more than a major handicap for game design. 

 

I want a current gen Sonic game. And before we fall into semantics, you know what I mean by that. A PS4 Sonic game to the core - not a Wii U game wearing pretty makeup. It opens the realms of possibility far beyond graphics alone and into actual game design. Sonic Adventure was absolutely impossible on the Saturn. Sonic Unleashed was impossible on the Dreamcast/Gamecube. This next game should be impossible on the PS3/Wii U. 

 

I'm not interested in going through the details of the situation from a tech and budget perspective (since, again, we've done it all before pre-wipe) but the least we can do is agree on the fact that ditching Wii U grants much greater possibilities in design. We have no idea whether or not Sonic Team has the capability to take advantage of those possibilities, nor do we know if they'll try. But the fact remains that the Wii U is a ball and chain on the game design regardless.

 

And my honest to God question for this argument every single time is "what can you add that'd make a big difference?".

 

Because if it means nice particle / shading effects, less loading screens between areas and more room for cinematic quality then I don't really care that much, lol. Nor do I really see any of that making a huge difference in what a Sonic game can offer, either, other than being the obviously conventional changes when moving up into the next gen of consoles.

 

Unleashed's level of visual fidelity and amount of content it loaded up at a time (and also thus it's speed) couldn't have been done on previous consoles, sure. But the art style, the hub worlds, the amount of content, everything else easily could've. Definitely not as pretty or robust, sure (as I mentioned), but it's not like those concepts were anything impossible to do before. And the Saturn couldn't do Adventure because it was an early 3D console that ran like garbage, and the jump between the Saturn and Dreamcast was phenomenal.. not quite like the jump between last and current gens.

 

If you wanna stop here, sure. But every time this topic is brought up, I come to a loss at what "a PS4 Sonic game" / "a current gen Sonic game" is even supposed to mean, let alone what big differences between last and current gen would even make that would matter in context to making a gosh danged Sonic game.

 

Unless you're talking open world Sonic + current CGI movie level visuals + 300mph gameplay. Which in that case, good luck getting that from Sega (especially the first bit). :v

[Diamond Sonic]

I don't care because that's not relevant to the discussion we're having.

 

Call me when you want to talk tech. A grocery list of your favorite games means nothing to me.

 

I don't see how you can make a sweeping statement like:

 

'The game would be better if the Wii U wouldn't be considered'

 

When for all extents and purposes the PS4 and Xbox One has literally only given us games that have been prettier and have offered nothing new in terms of game design. Yes, the PS4 and Xbox One games do look better than the Wii U games but graphics aren't the most important thing in the world (as you've noted) and Sonic Team is always good at maximising a console's graphical prowess anyway. 

 

The PS4 and Xbox One can't offer anything in game design that the Wii U can't. We aren't talking about a jump from 2D to 3D here. We have literally no evidence of games that are doing anything we haven't seen on the Xbox 360 or PS3. And in terms of framerate and performance, Lost World ran at 60FPS on the Wii U, so there's nothing wrong in that department. 

 

You're making a statement that the Wii U is, by nature of t's own specs, incapable of making games as potentially good as the best PS4 and Xbox One can offer. I'm showing how ironic that statement is because the Wii U has a far better game library.

[Sami]

I can't know what the difference would be without working for Sonic Team, but I'll try to have a better answer for you next week once I've played a decent amount of Bloodborne so I can compare that to Souls on PS3. Sound fair?

[azoo]

That'd be more fair if Bloodbourne / Dark Souls weren't games that were designed with completely different philosophies on where to excel in game design than something quite like a simplish action-platformer series.

 

But idk, I'll be willing to hear the response when you have it.

[Sami]

I don't see how you can make a sweeping statement like:

 

'The game would be better if the Wii U wouldn't be considered'

 

When for all extents and purposes the PS4 and Xbox One has literally only given us games that have been prettier and have offered nothing new in terms of game design. Yes, the PS4 and Xbox One games do look better than the Wii U games but graphics aren't the most important thing in the world (as you've noted) and Sonic Team is always good at maximising a console's graphical prowess anyway.

 

The game would be better if the Wii U wouldn't be considered. Super Mario 3D World would be a better game if it was on more powerful hardware. As would Mario Kart, as would Bayonetta, as would Zelda. More power grants more possibilities and better looking games.

 

Even if the only thing they offered was better visuals (that's not the case, by the way) it would still result in a game that's at least marginally better.

 

The PS4 and Xbox One can't offer anything in game design that the Wii U can't. We aren't talking about a jump from 2D to 3D here. We have literally no evidence of games that are doing anything we haven't seen on the Xbox 360 or PS3. And in terms of framerate and performance, Lost World ran at 60FPS on the Wii U, so there's nothing wrong in that department.

Performance is completely irrelevant. Any console is capable of 60 fps. Even the PS1.

 

I wrote an absolutely massive post that analyzed the exact difference in specs and theorizing what each difference could do for Sonic a while ago, but I think it got lost in the wipe. So. Eh.