Sonic Speed Tiers

[blade57331]

because I'm pretty sure Sonic 4 kills that notion as it is a clear and direct sequel to ever classic Sonic CD. Pretty hard to build a sequel to something that isn't cannon.

I don't see how sequel kill this notion. It's hard? Didn't Boom get a sequel (and Rivals)?

I'm not going to de-rail this speed topic by listing modern era examples of Knux flexing his biceps. If you're only response to him being weak is to discount his past feats of strength because they happened in the earlier part of the franchises life span then your beyond any reasoning I can give you. 

Hey! I'm not the one who discounted them on the first place. I don't like it either. But If that's a "word of God" of SEGA I won't argue with it.

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by blade57331

[Sega DogTagz]

I don't see how sequel kill this notion.

 

It kills it because Sonic 4, which is canon, is a direct sequel to Sonic CD.

 

The classic's have to be cannon, otherwise Sonic 4 wouldn't be able to stand on its own legs. Its called Sonic 4 and takes story que's right out of its forebears. I'd be hard pressed to say Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and CD are non-cannon considering we have the recent Sonic 4 sitting right there.  Are we supposed to ignore the scrapped Metal Sonic sitting on little planet? I think not.

 

 

Hey! I'm not the one who discounted them on the first place. I don't like it either. But If that's a "word of God" of SEGA I won't argue with it.

Word of god can change, and if past experiences with Sonic Team are any indication, then they are subject to CONSTANT revision.

Example, consider the following.

Iizuka also gave us word of god in 2012 that Silver is from the future and Blaze is from another dimension. To this day, we still get games that spit in the face of that. *cough*SonicRunners*cough*

Edited December 21, 2015 by Sega DogTagz
typo

[blade57331]

 

It kills it because Sonic 4, which is canon, is a direct sequel to Sonic CD.

 

The classic's have to be cannon, otherwise Sonic 4 wouldn't be able to stand on its own legs. Its called Sonic 4 and takes story que's right out of its forebears. I'd be hard pressed to say Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and CD are non-cannon considering we have the recent Sonic 4 sitting right there.  Are we supposed to ignore the scrapped Metal Sonic sitting on little planet? I think not.

I checked that Q&A he did and looks like I make mistake. He said that S3&K in non canon as is Hyper Sonic, Hyper Knuckles and Super Tails. So I guess is clear now then, Sonic 1,2,CD,4 pass. S3&K? Arrivederci!

Hey. That kind of would explain why epiosde 3 never happend, huh...

[Blaze349]

 

Ok in order. 

Sonic can't do things better than everyone else in the franchise, that's literally untrue. That's literally untrue, its literally the bases for sonic boom in its entirely.That's actually a lie. 

Did you just, " whatever" a source? Also when did sonic and shadow ever race with shadow inhibitor ringless?Along with that, i don't think his inhibitor rings effect speed, so I don't even know what that's being talked about. ,

Next, I don't think its that, it seems to be rather instant. While I would like to believe shadow could drag someone to a " nega" dimension like night crawler and apocalypse. Shadow has teleported other people, and no reports of it feeling they were in another place, its usually described or shown to be instant. So when they say  pocket I think they mean , he just ends up in an other section of space, then appears rather than going to a 3rd party dimension. I'm a shadow fan, and the idea of shadow being able traverse dimensions with out chaos emeralds is a cool power he could have, I don't think that's it. I think he has a firm grip on one reality and that's it. 

No its shadow. A matter of fact, it seems that everything but stopping time, is just shadow with out chaos emeralds. And even that ability is unique to shadow. 

 

This is interesting interesting info. 

 

Really now? He can save the day better, be faster better, be the best better, be sonic better, be more popular better.

When did Shadow even run with his feet and not hover boots.

[Bowbowis]

He can save the day better,

Not always.

 

be faster better

Obviously debatable.

 

be the best better

No.

 

be sonic better

No shit Sherlock.

 

be more popular better.

Depends on the era.

 

When did Shadow even run with his feet and not hover boots.

Riders (1&2).

[FantasticMrRobb]

Riders (1&2).

Props to you, bro. Not many people remember this really.

I was going to mention it earlier, but I don't think running in the Riders games should count since everyone seems to go the same speed. I mean, we all know Sonic could run faster than he does off board, maybe there's a rule in running off board?

[Shadowlax]

 

 

Riders (1&2).

Didn't he just have redesigned hover boots in that?

[Sparky]

Didn't he just have redesigned hover boots in that?

No, he had none-hoverskate shoes. And Skate-Gear (Darkness), as a separate thing. 

[Sega DogTagz]

Even if he did have hovershoes in Rider's, he clearly did not use them. He can be seen hoofing it just like any other character when you run out of air tank.

Riders was also nice enough to give us a speed gauge though, and on foot, every character is capped (without assistance) to 150 MPH. We know Sonic characters are naturally speedy, so that 150 doesn't really help us when we are trying to figure out rankings between characters that break the sound barrier.

[Sparky]

Characters that are known for a fact to break the Sound Barrier (excluding Sonic, Shadow, Silver, and Metal Sonic) include Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Cream, and I think Blaze. Other characters that are known to be somewhere within that speed range but not explicitly stated to be supersonic (although it's a good chance) are Rouge, maybe Omega, Espio, and Charmy. 

Metal Sonic is a robotic copy of Sonic created by Eggman to be better than the original. He can also copy any lifeform data he sees. Eggman is constantly upgrading him to constantly be better than or equal to Sonic.

Shadow the Hedgehog is the dark incarnation of Sonic (literally says that in the Heroes manual), sharing all of his speed and abilities, along with being highly skilled in the use of Chaos Control to warp time and space. Sonic Battle (the description for "Shadow Run") and Sonic Generations (from what you see in gameplay) seem to imply that Shadow uses his Hover Shoes so he can still reach his full speeds unhindered and without much effort while his inhibitor rings hold back his power.

Silver the Hedgehog is like the Sonic of the future and, despite what 06 may depict, he can indeed run fast enough to match Sonic (at the very least, his "average" supersonic speed) and can potentially match it even moreso (as in, matching Sonic's full FTL speeds) or even exceed it while levitating. 

Miles "Tails" Prower is Sonic's sidekick and best bro, having been training under Sonic since they met on Westside Island. Back then, Tails saw Sonic speeding by and was inspired by the Hedgehog's speed and coolness, and wanted to be just like that. So he started following Sonic with speed that impressed Sonic so much that Sonic decided to let Tails be his sidekick. Tails is very fast on his feet, and uses his namesakes to fly at speeds high enough to keep up with Sonic and almost match his speed. Tails' supersonic flight also allows him to pass over grounded obstacles in Sonic's path in order to either catch up with Sonic when the Hedgehog is moving faster than usual, or even beat Sonic in races. 

Knuckles the Echidna is as strong as Sonic is fast, and vise-versa. Knuckles can exceed the speed of sound, and run fast enough to keep up with or hit Sonic and Tails, although he isn't as agile as them (shown by his decreased jump height). Not to say he isn't agile at all, Knuckles is indeed highly agile, acrobatic and athletic. He is a Treasure Hunter-Martial Arts Master after all. And many forms of Martial Arts would require high agility. And considering the ability type based on him is labelled "POWER", which is actually Strength + Speed, just adds more fuel to the fire that is Knuckles' feet. In addition to that, one of Knuckles' favorite pasttimes is finding hidden routes, especially via digging, gliding, or breaking barriers.

Amy Rose, unlike the members of Team Heroes who were all introduced with their Speed Flight and Power, didn't have any pronounced physical abilities in her introduction. All that was known about her was that she was was well versed in mystical arts. Which was expanded upon in Sonic the Fighters/Championship where she first wielded her Magical Piko Piko Hammer, which she retained in Sonic Adventure. However, she had the slowest running speed in the game and couldn't spin like Team Heroes, and had to rely on her Hammer for acrobatics and graceful movements. However... the point of Amy's gameplay was outrunning Zero. And in the same game, she obtains the Warrior Feather, which is what allowed her to do her Spin Hammer Attacks. A move that Amy did NOT put to waste! From Sonic Adventure onwards, Amy begins chasing after Sonic a lot. She may have her magical talents to thank for tracking him down, but actually pursuing him is another thing entirely. So by Sonic Advance 2 and Heroes and onwards, Amy has become fast, agile, and strong enough to be officially considered a "Speed-Type" that can break the sound barrier, pull off all sorts of acrobatic and gymnastic maneuvers along with soaring through the air (all with tons of grace, and by using her hammer to propel herself), and can smash pretty much anything with her Hammer and even some level of skill in martial arts (at the very least, Boxing). Basically... Amy went from a weak little girl with some level of magical fortune telling, to a supersonic Speed-Type with nearly all of the potential abilities of any Fly-Type or Power-Type. 

Cream the Rabbit is a six year old rabbit, and Rabbits are known for speed (the prototype mascot before Sonic, Feel, was a Rabbit, after all...). Not only that, but she spends literally every single day of her 6+ years of life around Chao. According to Sonic Chronicles, Chao can enhance another character's abilities. And since Cream and Cheese are so in sych that they are practically a single entity... its no wonder Cream can run and fly fast enough to nearly keep up with Sonic. 

Blaze the Cat is highly acrobatic, nimble, graceful, fast and quickthinking. She can also use her flames to boost her speed even further. She can even fly freely through the air at high speeds. Now if only she wasn't afraid of heights...

Espio the Chameleon is a Ninja. Specializes in Stealth and Speed. Faster than Charmy (see below). 'nough said. 

Charmy Bee is a 6-year-old Bee, known to be extremely hyperactive and never stops flying. Knuckles' Chaotix also lsits him as a sprinter and the fastest insect in the world. 

Rouge the Bat is a world-class Treasure Hunter and Government Spy, with a lower body that may or may not be as powerful as Knuckles' upper body. She can also fly really well, and can either run or fly fast enough to keep up with Shadow to an unknown degree.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Sparky

[Blaze349]

Not always.

Still Sonic does it with more flair, speed and skill.

Obviously debatable.

Really now? Sonic is always at least referred as the world's fastest supersonic hedgehog.

No.

Not according to his theme in 06.

No shit Sherlock.

 

Depends on the era.

 

Riders (1&2).

Riders doesn't count because every character has the same running jogging animation and speed in the game. So you've seen Shadow jog at the same pace as storm the albatross...Yeah impressive....

 

But honestly guys..Shadow is disqualified because his own speed has never been measured but only that of his hover shoes. Unlike Metal, who's speed is powered by him moving. Think of it this way. If I wore a jetpack and flew around and beat Usain Bolt would I be the fastest man alive? You have your answer for why Shadow is disqualified.

[Bolt]

So Shadow is disqualified for having fancy shoes, but Metal is fine despite being a freaking robot?

How is that fair.

[Sparky]

Riders doesn't count because every character has the same running jogging animation and speed in the game. So you've seen Shadow jog at the same pace as storm the albatross...Yeah impressive....

 

But honestly guys..Shadow is disqualified because his own speed has never been measured but only that of his hover shoes. Unlike Metal, who's speed is powered by him moving. Think of it this way. If I wore a jetpack and flew around and beat Usain Bolt would I be the fastest man alive? You have your answer for why Shadow is disqualified.

The manual for his own game states that Shadow can easily match Sonic's speed with his powerful body.

[Bowbowis]

Still Sonic does it with more flair, speed and skill.

Flair: Yes, flair is Sonic's thing, Shadow is more the type to favor brutal efficiency over style.

Speed: No, see point 2.

Skill: Your metric for this being?

 

Really now? Sonic is always at least referred as the world's fastest supersonic hedgehog.

And, as already we've gone over multiple times in this thread, Shadow is always referred to as his equal. Also I retract my statement about the debatability of this topic. There is no debate here, there is only you and your head in the sand refusal to accept as fact that which has been well established for the past 15 years.

 

Not according to his theme in 06.

Oh... Well if that's how we're gonna play it.

 

Riders doesn't count because every character has the same running jogging animation and speed in the game. So you've seen Shadow jog at the same pace as storm the albatross...Yeah impressive....

As though I wouldn't know that. I was being facetious.

[Blaze349]

So Shadow is disqualified for having fancy shoes, but Metal is fine despite being a freaking robot?

How is that fair.

If he used his Riders shoes he wouldn't be disqualified but his hover shoes do everything for him.

The manual for his own game states that Shadow can easily match Sonic's speed with his powerful body.

Then how come every game refers to Sonic as the fastest hedgehog. Heroes even said he was unrivaled in speed(which makes sense from what we've seen). BTW power has nothing to do with speed.

 

And, as already we've gone over multiple times in this thread, Shadow is always referred to as his equal. Also I retract my statement about the debatability of this topic. There is no debate here, there is only you and your head in the sand refusal to accept as fact that which has been well established for the past 15 years.

 

Oh... Well if that's how we're gonna play it.

What about it? And why are you so aggressive to me all of a sudden? Its not a competition or anything y'know.

As though I wouldn't know that. I was being facetious.

I could say the same for you. And I would be right too! I've basically said that Shadow cannot take place in a speed tier like this because his average running speed has never been measured or even observed. Since you obviously like Shadow you have denied these very obvious facts. So with your logic Jet can use his board(as well as all the others), Eggman his carrier and Tails his machines? Words without action are nothing. We've seen Sonic run so fast he creates rainbows, we've seen Eggman show his intelligence by building massive fleets of robots by himself. And we've seen Knuckles punch the emeralds out of Super Sonic. Yes we've seen Shadow's boots race Sonic but never Shadow. 

 

[Darth InVaders]

 

 considering shadow in multiple games just does... chaos control stuff by himself, i'm going to take that with salt and go by what the games do. Also just a tid bit on information, from what I understand shadow's use is heavily moderated. In the comic, the last one he was in was actually more recent than 2013, shadow uses everything but time stop, nowhere near any chaos emeralds.  A matter of fact , they were the farthest they could be from chaos emeralds.... outer space. Since the comics are kinda held to strict character guildelines now, uh, pretty sure he doesn't really need anything besides an attempt to stop time, and I can honestly see them going back on that. One could make the argument that shadow's power is so large that his range for drawing power from the emeralds is now massive, but then the question would be why can't stop time by himself. What I think it is is that " chaos control " now means " time stop"  and the rest of of the stuff that fell under chaos control or chaos control abilities are now just things that shadow can do. So there is definitely evidence to the contrary, if word was law... well those we would be following multiple completely different and all somewhat inaccurate and ever changing descriptions of sonic characters like the bible, and that..instead of feeling it out for yourself. The japanese site says shadow still hates humans, thing change. Unless you meant the time stop stuff the whole time... then this entire paragraph was pointless. Then yeah you are in fact correct and I was never arguing that. 

 

No its shadow. A matter of fact, it seems that everything but stopping time, is just shadow with out chaos emeralds. And even that ability is unique to shadow. 

Stop spreading this stupid debunked fan theory, anything Chaos Control requires at least one Chaos Emerald to draw power from as Iizuka/god of Sonic said so (in addition to the numerous times official profiles and the characters themselves said so)

Chaos Control is defined as the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space - therefore to warp time and space without an Emerald is not Chaos Control

Iizuka, the profiles, and obviously the characters are official sources, yet you essentially said "whatever" to them - then had the nerve to call out Blaze349 for saying "whatever" to an official source later

 

official sources:

 

- Takashi Iizuka, Sonic Boom 2013 Q&A: "If he [Shadow the Hedgehog] doesn't have a Chaos Emerald he cannot use Chaos Control"
@41:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzxRoIX4QU

- Shadow profile, Adventure2 manual: "Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds"

- Sonic, Adventure2 cutscene: "It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp."

- Shadow, Adventure2 cutscene: "It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake."

- Shadow profile, Heroes manual: "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds."

- Shadow, Sonic06 cutscene: "With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space"

- Shadow profile, Rivals website: "Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..."

- Shadow profile, Sonic Channel website: "He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds"
 

 

However I will add this: Shadow's shoes are not powered by Chaos Emeralds - but their power source has never been mentioned or confirmed so any answer is unfounded fan speculation

Also: the definition of "rival" is "something or someone that is as good or almost as good as another person or thing" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rival - therefore when Shadow's game manual says Shadow rivals Sonic it is being ambiguous 

Edited December 23, 2015 by Darth InVaders

[Sparky]

Shadow is essentially a rollerblader. Personally, I have always saw the reasoning behind giving Shadow skates as because of wanting Sonic and Shadow to have different running animations. Yes, Shadow is meant to be the dark-incarnation of Sonic, matching him in speed and abilities, but design-wise he isn't a literal Sonic recolor even though he is a Sonic recolor. His quills spread out and upward, he has furry arms and chest, and he wears vaguely militaristic-style shoes and gloves. But all that is just aesthetics, under all that he is still meant to be like Sonic's reflection or shadow. Shadow is literally a perfect match for Sonic's appearance, speed, agility, and all other abilities and that is how it has always been. Even in Sonic Adventure 2, the rest of the Hero-Dark analogues aren't as exact. Rouge is like a perfect match for Knuckles in a vague love interest sense, but not in a "Knuckles' reflection" sort of way. Her flirtatious and cunning personality, her leg strength and possessive love for jewels of any kind, and her role as a Treasure Hunter and Government Spy makes her a slightly different kind of rival for Knuckles; having specific traits and characterization that is meant to put her against Knuckles' own traits of being a socially naive loner, guardian of a sacred gemstone with a heavy connection to ancient cultures and the like, martial arts master with immense physical power, with some lack of abiliy to deal with women or something. And for Tails and Eggman, all it comes down to is Tails being a child prodigy with a mind and technological talents greatly rivaling that of the mad scientist Doctor Eggman, while also not realizing his true potential in contrast to Eggman having a ton of pride and a massive ego. Eggman's mech is his Egg Mobile in a Walker mode, and Tails' mech is a heavily upgraded and modified plane in a Walker mode. Other than that, neither Tails&Eggman or Knuckles&Rouge are a direct reflection. But Sonic and Shadow are literally the same species, same physical age, same height, same weight, same speed, same agility, same cocky attitude, same immediate jump into action, same ties to the Chaos Emeralds, same ability to tap into the power of Chaos, same number of quills on their backs and heads, same- you get the idea. The story was partially built around how Shadow looks exactly like Sonic. They literally have the exact same body under the different fur colors and stuff. Sonic isn't "faster" than Shadow, Shadow isn't "stronger" or "more powerful" than Sonic, they are an exact match. They both share the exact same abilities of Speed and Chaos. They both hold the same "Ultimate Power" that Shadow boasts about. 

Thus, basically, Sonic and Shadow both naturally possess the same speed and agility, and neither one of them needs their footwear to reach those speeds. However fast Sonic is, Shadow is as well. 

The only difference comes down to Shadow's emphasis on Control in contrast to Sonic's Freedom. Shadow wears Inhibitors that hold back his true power, and he is highly skilled and much more versatile in the use of Chaos Control, and so it is safe to say that Shadow's skates fall under that same line of thought. He wears those skates in order to use his speed to its full potential when he's wearing those limiters. And so, when Sonic collects Ring Energy to Boost, he runs, but when Shadow collects Ring Energy to boost, that energy goes from within his body to blasting out of his skates. That, to me, is a definite sign that it is Shadow's own power. Plus, you know, the Orange Aura that surrounds Shadow's body. 

[Shadowlax]

Things that you said.

Ok so I'm going to give a short  answer, don't take this as disrespect or anything. 

Anyways flaws, You mention izuka and his statement, I think that's actually the knife that kills your argument, and well get back to that in a secco. 

So, you mention sonic adventure two and its guide... its whole sale relevant to the character too much anymore really, the flaw with using character profiles in these games is that the change spastically to fit this situation, and the one on the sonic channel irrc is still talking about he hates humans. So let that be a note to how possibly out of date or non caring about the subject a lot of folks at sega are. Why is this relevant? You mention sonic 06, shadow only pulls a chaos emerald, when using time stop, and dimension tearing powers, and super sonic. Every other " chaos ability" no chaos emerald or needed to such thing. This isn't the only time to, in the intro to shadow the hedgehog, this also seems to be the case. Along with his appearance in sonic generations iirc. Much like his character descriptions his character has changed over time.

And whats more important, what is chaos control has changed over time. Before... it was just everything in sa2, this quickly changed, shadow had been shown to have these fantastic powers with out emerald use. And as I mentioned before, while the comic books aren't particularly canon, they are held to a standard to which they were never held to before right now. Along with that, as you said it shadow is his baby, and what does he do in the comic. Unleash chaos blasts's powerful enough to kill things with out chaos emeralds, warp miles in space. They approved this. You know what the power that is consistently shown in comic and in game to need an emerald present? Time stop, time stop is the only power they actually show him every single time putting emphasis on the fact that this is so powerful that he needs, at least for now, outside help. And tearing through a whole dimension. The definition  of chaos control has just changed, or the allowances of it. I believe his statement is talking about time stop and very powerful things like dimension warping. And that statement has been vastly misused by people who have been trying to shut the shadow power level people for years thinking that the guy, or knowing and just lying, talking about all shadow's powers.

But I think the biggest peice of evidence might be the least canonical one, sonic boom. Sonic boom is , or at least how I see it, and amalgamation of things the have wanted to do with sonic and the characters. A culmination , widdling it down to some parts they see essential, and trying to make that different. Shadow, and i'm happy about this, was seen a essential part of sonic. He's weeded his way into the main crew. Shadow's inclusion was met with a fuss, his personality might not be the best. Divorced from the charters back story, the writers may have lost a lot of the meaning behind the guys actions. what does this with anything? In sonic boom , the most non canon of non canon right now, there are no chaos emeralds. None, they do not exist, and I love that. Yet shadow has all his chaos powers... except for 1. Wait? Shouldn't he have al of his powers right , there are no chaos emeralds, he shouldn't be bound by the rules of the old universe. Apparently he is, even in another reality shadow is bound by the rules of his creator, he cannot use chaos control without an emerald. And what power is that? Time stop. Even in a different universe they have made that distinction even though they didn't even have to. I think that is clear indication that izuka means that time stop as of currently means chaos control and is extremly powerful. And shadow's other powers as of current are his own. 

Woo, that was way longer than I wanted it to be anyways, response on why I think you are incorrect and you are misreading izuka's comments. If you disagree or agree that's fine. PM me, or whatever this site has, I don't think this conversation is relevant to speed. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Shadowlax

[Blaze349]

Shadow is essentially a rollerblader. Personally, I have always saw the reasoning behind giving Shadow skates as because of wanting Sonic and Shadow to have different running animations. Yes, Shadow is meant to be the dark-incarnation of Sonic, matching him in speed and abilities, but design-wise he isn't a literal Sonic recolor even though he is a Sonic recolor. His quills spread out and upward, he has furry arms and chest, and he wears vaguely militaristic-style shoes and gloves. But all that is just aesthetics, under all that he is still meant to be like Sonic's reflection or shadow. Shadow is literally a perfect match for Sonic's appearance, speed, agility, and all other abilities and that is how it has always been. Even in Sonic Adventure 2, the rest of the Hero-Dark analogues aren't as exact. Rouge is like a perfect match for Knuckles in a vague love interest sense, but not in a "Knuckles' reflection" sort of way. Her flirtatious and cunning personality, her leg strength and possessive love for jewels of any kind, and her role as a Treasure Hunter and Government Spy makes her a slightly different kind of rival for Knuckles; having specific traits and characterization that is meant to put her against Knuckles' own traits of being a socially naive loner, guardian of a sacred gemstone with a heavy connection to ancient cultures and the like, martial arts master with immense physical power, with some lack of abiliy to deal with women or something. And for Tails and Eggman, all it comes down to is Tails being a child prodigy with a mind and technological talents greatly rivaling that of the mad scientist Doctor Eggman, while also not realizing his true potential in contrast to Eggman having a ton of pride and a massive ego. Eggman's mech is his Egg Mobile in a Walker mode, and Tails' mech is a heavily upgraded and modified plane in a Walker mode. Other than that, neither Tails&Eggman or Knuckles&Rouge are a direct reflection. But Sonic and Shadow are literally the same species, same physical age, same height, same weight, same speed, same agility, same cocky attitude, same immediate jump into action, same ties to the Chaos Emeralds, same ability to tap into the power of Chaos, same number of quills on their backs and heads, same- you get the idea. The story was partially built around how Shadow looks exactly like Sonic. They literally have the exact same body under the different fur colors and stuff. Sonic isn't "faster" than Shadow, Shadow isn't "stronger" or "more powerful" than Sonic, they are an exact match. They both share the exact same abilities of Speed and Chaos. They both hold the same "Ultimate Power" that Shadow boasts about. 

Thus, basically, Sonic and Shadow both naturally possess the same speed and agility, and neither one of them needs their footwear to reach those speeds. However fast Sonic is, Shadow is as well. 

The only difference comes down to Shadow's emphasis on Control in contrast to Sonic's Freedom. Shadow wears Inhibitors that hold back his true power, and he is highly skilled and much more versatile in the use of Chaos Control, and so it is safe to say that Shadow's skates fall under that same line of thought. He wears those skates in order to use his speed to its full potential when he's wearing those limiters. And so, when Sonic collects Ring Energy to Boost, he runs, but when Shadow collects Ring Energy to boost, that energy goes from within his body to blasting out of his skates. That, to me, is a definite sign that it is Shadow's own power. Plus, you know, the Orange Aura that surrounds Shadow's body. 

See you are completely ignoring everything that has been said.

Stop spreading this stupid debunked fan theory, anything Chaos Control requires at least one Chaos Emerald to draw power from as Iizuka/god of Sonic said so (in addition to the numerous times official profiles and the characters themselves said so)

Chaos Control is defined as the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space - therefore to warp time and space without an Emerald is not Chaos Control

Iizuka, the profiles, and obviously the characters are official sources, yet you essentially said "whatever" to them - then had the nerve to call out Blaze349 for saying "whatever" to an official source later

 

official sources:

 

- Takashi Iizuka, Sonic Boom 2013 Q&A: "If he [Shadow the Hedgehog] doesn't have a Chaos Emerald he cannot use Chaos Control"
@41:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzxRoIX4QU

- Shadow profile, Adventure2 manual: "Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds"

- Sonic, Adventure2 cutscene: "It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp."

- Shadow, Adventure2 cutscene: "It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake."

- Shadow profile, Heroes manual: "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds."

- Shadow, Sonic06 cutscene: "With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space"

- Shadow profile, Rivals website: "Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..."

- Shadow profile, Sonic Channel website: "He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds"
 

 

However I will add this: Shadow's shoes are not powered by Chaos Emeralds - but their power source has never been mentioned or confirmed so any answer is unfounded fan speculation

Also: the definition of "rival" is "something or someone that is as good or almost as good as another person or thing" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rival - therefore when Shadow's game manual says Shadow rivals Sonic it is being ambiguous 

Exactly. His shoes might be powered by Chaos energy though because they boost when they get more rings. 

Shadow is essentially a rollerblader. Personally, I have always saw the reasoning behind giving Shadow skates as because of wanting Sonic and Shadow to have different running animations. Yes, Shadow is meant to be the dark-incarnation of Sonic, matching him in speed and abilities, but design-wise he isn't a literal Sonic recolor even though he is a Sonic recolor. His quills spread out and upward, he has furry arms and chest, and he wears vaguely militaristic-style shoes and gloves. But all that is just aesthetics, under all that he is still meant to be like Sonic's reflection or shadow. Shadow is literally a perfect match for Sonic's appearance, speed, agility, and all other abilities and that is how it has always been. Even in Sonic Adventure 2, the rest of the Hero-Dark analogues aren't as exact. Rouge is like a perfect match for Knuckles in a vague love interest sense, but not in a "Knuckles' reflection" sort of way. Her flirtatious and cunning personality, her leg strength and possessive love for jewels of any kind, and her role as a Treasure Hunter and Government Spy makes her a slightly different kind of rival for Knuckles; having specific traits and characterization that is meant to put her against Knuckles' own traits of being a socially naive loner, guardian of a sacred gemstone with a heavy connection to ancient cultures and the like, martial arts master with immense physical power, with some lack of abiliy to deal with women or something. And for Tails and Eggman, all it comes down to is Tails being a child prodigy with a mind and technological talents greatly rivaling that of the mad scientist Doctor Eggman, while also not realizing his true potential in contrast to Eggman having a ton of pride and a massive ego. Eggman's mech is his Egg Mobile in a Walker mode, and Tails' mech is a heavily upgraded and modified plane in a Walker mode. Other than that, neither Tails&Eggman or Knuckles&Rouge are a direct reflection. But Sonic and Shadow are literally the same species, same physical age, same height, same weight, same speed, same agility, same cocky attitude, same immediate jump into action, same ties to the Chaos Emeralds, same ability to tap into the power of Chaos, same number of quills on their backs and heads, same- you get the idea. The story was partially built around how Shadow looks exactly like Sonic. They literally have the exact same body under the different fur colors and stuff. Sonic isn't "faster" than Shadow, Shadow isn't "stronger" or "more powerful" than Sonic, they are an exact match. They both share the exact same abilities of Speed and Chaos. They both hold the same "Ultimate Power" that Shadow boasts about. 

Thus, basically, Sonic and Shadow both naturally possess the same speed and agility, and neither one of them needs their footwear to reach those speeds. However fast Sonic is, Shadow is as well. 

The only difference comes down to Shadow's emphasis on Control in contrast to Sonic's Freedom. Shadow wears Inhibitors that hold back his true power, and he is highly skilled and much more versatile in the use of Chaos Control, and so it is safe to say that Shadow's skates fall under that same line of thought. He wears those skates in order to use his speed to its full potential when he's wearing those limiters. And so, when Sonic collects Ring Energy to Boost, he runs, but when Shadow collects Ring Energy to boost, that energy goes from within his body to blasting out of his skates. That, to me, is a definite sign that it is Shadow's own power. Plus, you know, the Orange Aura that surrounds Shadow's body. 

See you are completely ignoring everything that has been said.

Stop spreading this stupid debunked fan theory, anything Chaos Control requires at least one Chaos Emerald to draw power from as Iizuka/god of Sonic said so (in addition to the numerous times official profiles and the characters themselves said so)

Chaos Control is defined as the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space - therefore to warp time and space without an Emerald is not Chaos Control

Iizuka, the profiles, and obviously the characters are official sources, yet you essentially said "whatever" to them - then had the nerve to call out Blaze349 for saying "whatever" to an official source later

 

official sources:

 

- Takashi Iizuka, Sonic Boom 2013 Q&A: "If he [Shadow the Hedgehog] doesn't have a Chaos Emerald he cannot use Chaos Control"
@41:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzxRoIX4QU

- Shadow profile, Adventure2 manual: "Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds"

- Sonic, Adventure2 cutscene: "It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp."

- Shadow, Adventure2 cutscene: "It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake."

- Shadow profile, Heroes manual: "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds."

- Shadow, Sonic06 cutscene: "With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space"

- Shadow profile, Rivals website: "Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..."

- Shadow profile, Sonic Channel website: "He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds"
 

 

However I will add this: Shadow's shoes are not powered by Chaos Emeralds - but their power source has never been mentioned or confirmed so any answer is unfounded fan speculation

Also: the definition of "rival" is "something or someone that is as good or almost as good as another person or thing" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rival - therefore when Shadow's game manual says Shadow rivals Sonic it is being ambiguous 

Exactly. His shoes might be powered by Chaos energy though because they boost when they get more rings. 

[Blaze349]

Ok so I'm going to give a short  answer, don't take this as disrespect or anything. 

Hidden Content

Woo, that was way longer than I wanted it to be anyways, response on why I think you are incorrect and you are misreading izuka's comments. If you disagree or agree that's fine. PM me, or whatever this site has, I don't think this conversation is relevant to speed.

It is because some people won't understand that Shadow's speed is unknown. BTW you are just assuming things with no evidence to back your statements. And your username says a lot about your bias towards Shadow. 

[Sparky]

 

See you are completely ignoring everything that has been said.

Exactly. His shoes might be powered by Chaos energy though because they boost when they get more rings. 

 

 

See you are completely ignoring everything that has been said.

Exactly. His shoes might be powered by Chaos energy though because they boost when they get more rings. 

 

What am I ignoring?

[Blaze349]

What am I ignoring?

The fact that Shadow's speed has actually never been observed in the games.

[Sparky]

The fact that Shadow's speed has actually never been observed in the games.

...what? Shadow's true speed and agility is equal to Sonic's regardless of the skates. We are never going to see him not skating because skating is what he does. For Sonic (and by extension, Shadow), Speed is a superpower. Not just running good, but also anything else connected to the idea of speed in general falls under their powerset. Like, in Generations, Sonic can make the moving platforms in Planet Wisp accelerate by standing on them and using the boost. Another example of that is how he boosts while streetboarding, grinding, in the air, etc etc. Even though we haven't seen Shadow doing that, we already know that Shadow can because he is meant to share Sonic's speed and agility and his gameplay will mimic Sonic's. 

[Blaze349]

...what? Shadow's true speed and agility is equal to Sonic's regardless of the skates. We are never going to see him not skating because skating is what he does. For Sonic (and by extension, Shadow), Speed is a superpower. Not just running good, but also anything else connected to the idea of speed in general falls under their powerset. Like, in Generations, Sonic can make the moving platforms in Planet Wisp accelerate by standing on them and using the boost. Another example of that is how he boosts while streetboarding, grinding, in the air, etc etc. Even though we haven't seen Shadow doing that, we already know that Shadow can because he is meant to share Sonic's speed and agility and his gameplay will mimic Sonic's. 

Really? You are just saying what you think/wish to happen. Shadow's speed still hasn't been observed and all references have been towards his skates. His agility is subpar and is nothing compared to Sonic.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lft02DuvqnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

 

Honestly? Shadow equal to Sonic? What a joke...

[Sparky]

Really? You are just saying what you think/wish to happen. Shadow's speed still hasn't been observed and all references have been towards his skates. His agility is subpar and is nothing compared to Sonic.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lft02DuvqnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hidden Content

 

 

Honestly? Shadow equal to Sonic? What a joke...

Shadow IS equal to Sonic. Just gameplay and what Generations says is enough evidence. We don't need to see Shadow pulling off a CD intro to prove it. He matches Sonic's speed and agility, and that's that.