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Just throwing this out there, but if you S rank the last mission of Asteroid coaster in Sonic Colors DS Shadow actually infers Sonic is faster/better than him. 

Edited by RappedinBlacX
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Just throwing this out there, but if you S rank the last mission of Asteroid coaster in Sonic Colors DS Shadow actually infers Sonic is faster/better than him. 

Omega outright says that the 2 hedgehogs are completely equal. 

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Omega outright says that the 2 hedgehogs are completely equal. 

If you S that mission Omega says "why did you need Sonic to find this info? My records show your abilities are equal" Shadow respond, " That just goes to show you data wont tell you everything", Omega says "does not compute" Shadow just chuckles.

Sonic also says something similar when Omega tries analyze his speed in Mission 1. In this case both characters infer that Omega is not correct In his analysis.

Edited by RappedinBlacX
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If you S that mission Omega says "why did you need Sonic to find this info? My records show your abilities are equal" Shadow respond, " That just goes to show you data wont tell you everything", Omega says "does not compute" Shadow just chuckles.

Sonic also says something similar when Omega tries analyze his speed in Mission 1. In this case both characters infer that Omega is not correct In his analysis.

Omega's data said that Sonic was moving at a 140% increase in speed than previous entry. Sonic's reply was about how that wasn't his full speed. What Shadow said later seems to be about something other than their equal abilities.

What Shadow said may be connected to how he said Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform in Adventure 2 during the Final Hazard boss.

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Shadow IS equal to Sonic. Just gameplay and what Generations says is enough evidence. We don't need to see Shadow pulling off a CD intro to prove it. He matches Sonic's speed and agility, and that's that. 

See what I mean? Shadow has never even ran in the series. All his races have been with jet boots.

Watch the video in 0.25 speed then 1.00 speed and then honestly answer the question. 

 

PS: Gameplay with hover shoes :P. He doesn't need to. Just do some actual exercise so we can find his place in the speed tier.

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Omega's data said that Sonic was moving at a 140% increase in speed than previous entry. Sonic's reply was about how that wasn't his full speed. What Shadow said later seems to be about something other than their equal abilities.

What Shadow said may be connected to how he said Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform in Adventure 2 during the Final Hazard boss.

 

Omega's data said that Sonic was moving at a 140% increase in speed than previous entry. Sonic's reply was about how that wasn't his full speed. What Shadow said later seems to be about something other than their equal abilities.

What Shadow said may be connected to how he said Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform in Adventure 2 during the Final Hazard boss.

 

Omega's data said that Sonic was moving at a 140% increase in speed than previous entry. Sonic's reply was about how that wasn't his full speed. What Shadow said later seems to be about something other than their equal abilities.

What Shadow said may be connected to how he said Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform in Adventure 2 during the Final Hazard boss.

........ What? Shadow's answer was a direct response to Omega analysis of them supposedly being equal. There is no reason to think what you are claiming. Your reaching. Lets say you were right though. Wouldn't Shadow admitting Sonic was the Ultimate lifeform be just as a admission that Sonic is better? 

Edited by RappedinBlacX
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........ What? Shadow's answer was a direct response to Omega analysis of them supposedly being equal. There is no reason to think what you are claiming. Your reaching. Lets say you were right though. Wouldn't Shadow admitting Sonic was the Ultimate lifeform be just as a admission that Sonic is better? 

it's an admission that there is something special about Sonic, even though they are equal. 

 

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it's an admission that there is something special about Sonic, even though they are equal. 

 

I guarantee you, when Shadow claims he is Ultimate Lifeform no equals are considered. Just sounds silly, "Im the Ultimate lifeform...with an EQUUUUUUUUAL" *hissing*

Edited by RappedinBlacX
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Considering that Shadow chuckles after Omega's remark, and that we have no visual ques (outside of a talking head character cut-out) to discern his tone or intention while making that chuckle, you could just as easily come to the conclusion that he was laughing at the idea of Sonic and himself being on equal footing because he feels that he himself is superior.

There is nothing you can take away from that aside from the fact that Shadow believes that he is not "equal" to Sonic. In his mind, one of them has the advantage, and from that line of text there is no way to infer which way he was leaning.

 

If you twisted my arm, I'd say he was just being a cocky prick, and promoting his own superiority, but again, there is nothing to support it one way or another.

 

Edited by Sega DogTagz
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but design-wise he isn't a literal Sonic recolor even though he is a Sonic recolor. His quills spread out and upward, he has furry arms and chest, and he wears vaguely militaristic-style shoes and gloves.

 Yeah, Shadow is a recolor of Super Sonic. Actually not a bad idea, you know.

Omega outright says that the 2 hedgehogs are completely equal. 

Source it, please.

See what I mean? Shadow has never even ran in the series. All his races have been with jet boots.

He runs in Riders.

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 Yeah, Shadow is a recolor of Super Sonic. Actually not a bad idea, you know.

 

Source it, please.

 

He runs in Riders.

What I meant was that Shadow isn't just a different colored version of Sonic's model. Physically he is completely identical aside from the color, but I mean the clothing, SA/SA2-SuperSonic quills as opposed to Sonic's normal downward-hanging quills, and more fur are what makes him not a "recolor". 

In ColorsDS, Omega and Shadow's conversation goes like this:

Omega: Inquiry: Why did you give Sonic information?
Shadow: I'm happy to leave all the racing around to them, thanks.
Omega: Unable to process. According to data, your ability equals Sonic's.
Shadow: That just goes to show data won't tell you everything.
Omega: Does not compute. 

Edited by Sparky
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Considering that Shadow chuckles after Omega's remark, and that we have no visual ques (outside of a talking head character cut-out) to discern his tone or intention while making that chuckle, you could just as easily come to the conclusion that he was laughing at the idea of Sonic and himself being on equal footing because he feels that he himself is superior.

There is nothing you can take away from that aside from the fact that Shadow believes that he is not "equal" to Sonic. In his mind, one of them has the advantage, and from that line of text there is no way to infer which way he was leaning.

 

If you twisted my arm, I'd say he was just being a cocky prick, and promoting his own superiority, but again, there is nothing to support it one way or another.

No no no. The whole character tree in Asteroid is Omega comparing Sonic's data against Shadow's. Omega has the pre assumption that Sonic and Shadow are equal and is surprised at Sonic outperforming previouss data. Shadow also has to believe that or what would the point in him sending someone else but himself? The idea of Sonic and Shadow being equal is not conclusion as thats been established for years even from Shadow. That was definitely Shadow infering Sonic could be faster/better than him.

  Not to mention, there seems to be this idea that equal means everthing is on par with one another. Sonic and Shadow are nearly equal in abilities, but Sonic is faster than Shadow, but Shadow makes up for that by having more physical prowess than Sonic, thus thier strengths and weakness are balanced against one another making them equal. Thats hinted in their play styles in Battle and 06. Sonic is more speed oriented and Shadow more power oriented in both. 

What I meant was that Shadow isn't just a different colored version of Sonic's model. Physically he is completely identical aside from the color, but I mean the clothing, SA/SA2-SuperSonic quills as opposed to Sonic's normal downward-hanging quills, and more fur are what makes him not a "recolor". 
In ColorsDS, Omega and Shadow's conversation goes like this:

Omega: Inquiry: Why did you give Sonic information?
Shadow: I'm happy to leave all the racing around to them, thanks.
Omega: Unable to process. According to data, your ability equals Sonic's.
Shadow: That just goes to show data won't tell you everything.
Omega: Does not compute. 

guys read this conversation out loud!  It only infers one thing! 

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No no no. The whole character tree in Asteroid is Omega comparing Sonic's data against Shadow's. Omega has the pre assumption that Sonic and Shadow are equal and is surprised at Sonic outperforming previouss data. Shadow also has to believe that or what would the point in him sending someone else but himself? The idea of Sonic and Shadow being equal is not conclusion as thats been established for years even from Shadow. That was definitely Shadow infering Sonic could be faster/better than him.

  Not to mention, there seems to be this idea that equal means everthing is on par with one another. Sonic and Shadow are nearly equal in abilities, but Sonic is faster than Shadow, but Shadow makes up for that by having more physical prowess than Sonic, thus thier strengths and weakness are balanced against one another making them equal. Thats hinted in their play styles in Battle and 06. Sonic is more speed oriented and Shadow more power oriented in both. 

guys read this conversation out loud!  It only infers one thing! 

Omega saying they are equal is a response to Shadow saying he's happy letting Sonic take care of everything. Shadow's response to THAT is just talking about how Omega's data isn't gonna cover their personalities and stuff. Omega's idea was that Sonic and Shadow are physically equal, so why would Shadow have Sonic take care of stuff when Shadow himself is just as capable?

Shadow isn't more power-oriented, thats Knuckles. Shadow just puts more emphasis on combat in general, and may or may not have military training-like skills. Shadow is meant to be just as fast and agile as Sonic. 

Edited by Sparky
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 That was definitely Shadow infering Sonic could be faster/better than him.

Hardly. Depending on the way you read that statement, it could go either way. There is no way you could pull anything definitive from their conversation. All you have to go with are talking heads. No emotes, no tone, no nothing.

 

 

 Thats hinted in their play styles in Battle and 06. Sonic is more speed oriented and Shadow more power oriented in both. 

Not Exactly. In Battle, Shadow is both Faster and Stronger than Sonic from a stats comparison. Shadow has the best dash in the game, both his walking and running speed is significantly higher than Sonic and his special attacks are the most powerful in the game this side of Gamma's Self Destruct.

You might want to check your stats. In Battle, Shadow has both Speed and Power over Sonic. He's a Sonic on Steroids if anything.

guys read this conversation out loud!  It only infers one thing! 

To you maybe, but that's only what you infer. Any rational third party could read that sentence and understand how Shadow could be inferring to either his own, or Sonic's superiority using that same set of words.

 

Personally, knowing how ego filled and brash Shadow is, I would venture out on a limb to say a consensus of people who understand the character would agree that he is probably beating his own chest with that remark.

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Personally, knowing how ego filled and brash Shadow is, I would venture out on a limb to say a consensus of people who understand the character would agree that he is probably beating his own chest with that remark.

I think you got him mixed up with Sonic. Yeah Shadow has a ego somewhat but not like Sonic and hes more a "think before you act" kind of guy , especially in the Japanese dubs of any games hes in. 

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I think you got him mixed up with Sonic. Yeah Shadow has a ego somewhat but not like Sonic and hes more a "think before you act" kind of guy , especially in the Japanese dubs of any games hes in. 

Pretty sure Shadow has gotten into enough verbal sparring matches in defense of his ego to prove my point.

He's time and time again stepped out against the blue faker to stroke his ego. Multiple times in SA2, did the same when they met in heroes and battle too. When ego's are involved, Shadow is no stranger to puffing out his chest.

Sonic doesn't even have to work hard to bring it out of him. For a while there, he couldn't go 3 seconds without stating himself as the Ultimate Lifeform.

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Omega saying they are equal is a response to Shadow saying he's happy letting Sonic take care of everything. Shadow's response to THAT is just talking about how Omega's data isn't gonna cover their personalities and stuff. Omega's idea was that Sonic and Shadow are physically equal, so why would Shadow have Sonic take care of stuff when Shadow himself is just as capable?
Shadow isn't more power-oriented, thats Knuckles. Shadow just puts more emphasis on combat in general, and may or may not have military training-like skills. Shadow is meant to be just as fast and agile as Sonic. 

Sparky what are you talking about? Physical abilities of Sonic in comparison to Shadow is the topic of Asteroid Coasters Character mission. Both Sonic and Shadow allude to not using data as the be all end all. Nothing about personalities. Your reaching for things that are not present at all. Not even alittle bit.I didnt say Shadow was power oriented, I said he physical prowess Aka better combat abilities. Saying that Sonic is faster than Shadow does not negate the fact that Shadow is just as agile and fast. For example - Metal Sonic is considered to be faster Sonic but poor handling abilities at high speeds give Sonic the edge. Its not a black or white thing or in this case black or blue. 

Hardly. Depending on the way you read that statement, it could go either way. There is no way you could pull anything definitive from their conversation. All you have to go with are talking heads. No emotes, no tone, no nothing.

 

Not Exactly. In Battle, Shadow is both Faster and Stronger than Sonic from a stats comparison. Shadow has the best dash in the game, both his walking and running speed is significantly higher than Sonic and his special attacks are the most powerful in the game this side of Gamma's Self Destruct.

You might want to check your stats. In Battle, Shadow has both Speed and Power over Sonic. He's a Sonic on Steroids if anything.

To you maybe, but that's only what you infer. Any rational third party could read that sentence and understand how Shadow could be inferring to either his own, or Sonic's superiority using that same set of words.

 

Personally, knowing how ego filled and brash Shadow is, I would venture out on a limb to say a consensus of people who understand the character would agree that he is probably beating his own chest with that remark.

The stats in Sonic Battle are NOT the CHARACTERS stats, but the stats of the particular skill. When Sonic fights hes using light jog in comparison to Shadow's jets skates always being on high speed.  I was comparison play styles as Sonic is definitely more agile and quick burst attacks than Shadow who has lots of stationary projectile moves. 

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Sparky what are you talking about? Physical abilities of Sonic in comparison to Shadow is the topic of Asteroid Coasters Character mission. Both Sonic and Shadow allude to not using data as the be all end all. Nothing about personalities. Your reaching for things that are not present at all. Not even alittle bit.I didnt say Shadow was power oriented, I said he physical prowess Aka better combat abilities. Saying that Sonic is faster than Shadow does not negate the fact that Shadow is just as agile and fast. For example - Metal Sonic is considered to be faster Sonic but poor handling abilities at high speeds give Sonic the edge. Its not a black or white thing or in this case black or blue. 

The stats in Sonic Battle are NOT the CHARACTERS stats, but the stats of the particular skill. When Sonic fights hes using light jog in comparison to Shadow's jets skates always being on high speed.  I was comparison play styles as Sonic is definitely more agile and quick burst attacks than Shadow who has lots of stationary projectile moves. 

Bolded is a contradiction. Sonic and Shadows speeds are equal according to the Canon. Differences between them is in their skills and how they move and fight and stuff like that. But what they CAN do is exactly the same. 

 

I also want to point out that Sonic in Battle was using a lot more speed and power during the Ultimate Emeril fight.

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Bolded is a contradiction. Sonic and Shadows speeds are equal according to the Canon. Differences between them is in their skills and how they move and fight and stuff like that. But what they CAN do is exactly the same. 

 

I also want to point out that Sonic in Battle was using a lot more speed and power during the Ultimate Emeril fight.

Sparky, you do not have good debate skills and that makes you my least favorite type to conversate with.

- The bolded is not contradictory, I gave an example following what I meant. You completely breezed over that.

- Sonic Colors IS canon and in this game it infers that Sonic is faster/better than Shadow

- I agree with your  3rd sentence, but it is not the focus on conversation between Omega and Shadow. It is specifically on the topic on thier abilities being equal based on Omega's Data which Shadow HIMSELF alludes to being flawed. If Shadow believed they were equal Wouldn't he just say yea were equal Omega? His statement definitely says otherwise. This comes after S ranking the mission, why would this conversation be locked behind a S rank door for Shadow to allude to anything but Sonic surpassing him!? In the context of the conversation it does make sense.  

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The stats in Sonic Battle are NOT the CHARACTERS stats, but the stats of the particular skill. When Sonic fights hes using light jog in comparison to Shadow's jets skates always being on high speed.  I was comparison play styles as Sonic is definitely more agile and quick burst attacks than Shadow who has lots of stationary projectile moves. 

The stats of the particular skill are what have the biggest impact on how that character plays. They dictate what kind of playstyle the character is designed to exploit.

If you're looking to build an emerl that moves quick and hits fast, you'll be using a lot more of Shadow's abilities over Sonic's. Shadow's teleport dash, faster movement speed and Shadow Rocket (dunk move) all promote faster, more agile alternatives to anything Sonic can throw on the table on that game.

Shadow plays faster in that game because he can both close the distance to target faster and DPS faster once he gets there. You can hardly call Sonic a more agile and quick playstyle when Shadow has him beat in both of those categories.

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Sparky, you do not have good debate skills and that makes you my least favorite type to conversate with.

- The bolded is not contradictory, I gave an example following what I meant. You completely breezed over that.

- Sonic Colors IS canon and in this game it infers that Sonic is faster/better than Shadow

- I agree with your  3rd sentence, but it is not the focus on conversation between Omega and Shadow. It is specifically on the topic on thier abilities being equal based on Omega's Data which Shadow HIMSELF alludes to being flawed. If Shadow believed they were equal Wouldn't he just say yea were equal Omega? His statement definitely says otherwise. This comes after S ranking the mission, why would this conversation be locked behind a S rank door for Shadow to allude to anything but Sonic surpassing him!? In the context of the conversation it does make sense.  

The way the conversation is set up, Shadow's final statement doesn't directly imply anything about his own abilities. What he was saying in the conversation basically amounts to either "I didn't feel like doing it" or "It's not my place to do it". 
Omega: Inquiry: Why did you give Sonic information?
Shadow: I'm happy to leave all the racing around to them, thanks.
Omega: Unable to process. According to data, your ability equals Sonic's.
Shadow: That just goes to show data won't tell you everything.
Omega: Does not compute. 

Shadow was fully capable of taking care of the situation by himself, but he felt it should be left for Sonic to take care of. The mission before this one went like this:
Shadow: Hmph, finally.
Sonic: Shadow!
Shadow: Didn't think I'd find you still hanging around here.
Sonic: And what do you mean by that?
Shadow: You have a job to do. Go take care of the Doctor.
Tails: Are you here to help us, Shadow?
Shadow: Hmph, I see no reason.
Sonic: All right, fine. We'll get going.
Shadow: Before you go. 
Sonic: What?
Shadow: It's been a while... Let me make sure you haven't gone soft, Sonic. 
---
Shadow: Hmph, Looks like I don't need to be too worried.
Sonic: What was that?
Tails: Were you worried if we'd get hurt trying to rescue the wisps?
Shadow: Hmph!
Sonic: I'll just take that as a compliment.

Shadow wanted to test Sonic's capabilties, and felt no reason to help Sonic and Tails stop Eggman. He could have done it himself, but it's Sonic's job.
Also, I never said Colors wasn't canon.

The stats of the particular skill are what have the biggest impact on how that character plays. They dictate what kind of playstyle the character is designed to exploit.

If you're looking to build an emerl that moves quick and hits fast, you'll be using a lot more of Shadow's abilities over Sonic's. Shadow's teleport dash, faster movement speed and Shadow Rocket (dunk move) all promote faster, more agile alternatives to anything Sonic can throw on the table on that game.

Shadow plays faster in that game because he can both close the distance to target faster and DPS faster once he gets there. You can hardly call Sonic a more agile and quick playstyle when Shadow has him beat in both of those categories.

Well, Sonic wears Power Sneakers and Shadow wears Air Skates, so even though their overall speed and agility is equal, Sonic uses his superspeed via running and pushing off of the ground while Shadow glides over the ground as he skates. Thus, while Sonic jogs at a relatively slow pace, as he does in this game, Shadow accelerates into faster speeds with ease automatically. 

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He runs in Riders.

we've discussed this already.

are you guys arguing over a non canon game? Colors Wii is the canon version made by Sonic Team not DIMPS.

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The way the conversation is set up, Shadow's final statement doesn't directly imply anything about his own abilities. What he was saying in the conversation basically amounts to either "I didn't feel like doing it" or "It's not my place to do it". 
Omega: Inquiry: Why did you give Sonic information?
Shadow: I'm happy to leave all the racing around to them, thanks.
Omega: Unable to process. According to data, your ability equals Sonic's.
Shadow: That just goes to show data won't tell you everything.
Omega: Does not compute. 

Shadow was fully capable of taking care of the situation by himself, but he felt it should be left for Sonic to take care of. The mission before this one went like this:
Shadow: Hmph, finally.
Sonic: Shadow!
Shadow: Didn't think I'd find you still hanging around here.
Sonic: And what do you mean by that?
Shadow: You have a job to do. Go take care of the Doctor.
Tails: Are you here to help us, Shadow?Shadow: Hmph, I see no reason.
Sonic: All right, fine. We'll get going.
Shadow: Before you go. 
Sonic: What?
Shadow: It's been a while... Let me make sure you haven't gone soft, Sonic. 
---
Shadow: Hmph, Looks like I don't need to be too worried.
Sonic: What was that?
Tails: Were you worried if we'd get hurt trying to rescue the wisps?
Shadow: Hmph!
Sonic: I'll just take that as a compliment.

Shadow wanted to test Sonic's capabilties, and felt no reason to help Sonic and Tails stop Eggman. He could have done it himself, but it's Sonic's job.
Also, I never said Colors wasn't canon.

Well, Sonic wears Power Sneakers and Shadow wears Air Skates, so even though their overall speed and agility is equal, Sonic uses his superspeed via running and pushing off of the ground while Shadow glides over the ground as he skates. Thus, while Sonic jogs at a relatively slow pace, as he does in this game, Shadow accelerates into faster speeds with ease automatically. 

Sparky, buddy. Its like your not even reading what your writing. Everytime, you come back you bring  a different answer to Shadow is refering to and none of it makes sense. The first time youu brought up a almost throwaway line gor SA2...That actually worked against you. Then you brought up personality differences, whic was NEVER the topic of any of Asteroid Coasters Character plot. Now you're saying that Shadow is testing Sonic, which is true, but each character arc leads into the next. S ranking the final mission gives extra insight with a secret conversation that shows it was more than just being a test.   

Omega says, " My data shows you and Sonic are equal"

Shadows answer, "That just goes to show that data wont tell you everything" is in DIRECT response to Omega's analysis. Not to anything else. Shadow wasnt testing if Sonic could handle Eggman on his own. Shadow already knows Sonic got that covered. He is testing Sonic against himself and his response to Omega infers that he disagrees with them being equal and admission that Sonic may have surpassed him. 

At this point I going to call it a wrap and lets this go. 

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Well, Sonic wears Power Sneakers and Shadow wears Air Skates, so even though their overall speed and agility is equal, Sonic uses his superspeed via running and pushing off of the ground while Shadow glides over the ground as he skates. Thus, while Sonic jogs at a relatively slow pace, as he does in this game, Shadow accelerates into faster speeds with ease automatically. 

Dude, what does that have to do with anything?

You stated that Sonic had a faster and quicker play style than Shadow in Battle and I showed you how that was not true.

Either concede the subject or come back with a rebuttal that at least is remotely related to the point you raised. All your doing is running around and spewing different things in different directions.

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Dude, what does that have to do with anything?

You stated that Sonic had a faster and quicker play style than Shadow in Battle and I showed you how that was not true.

Either concede the subject or come back with a rebuttal that at least is remotely related to the point you raised. All your doing is running around and spewing different things in different directions.

Are you talking about When I mentioned Ultimate Emerl?

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