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The Ultimate Sonic Game to Resurrect the Franchise


Diamond Sonic
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As we all know, Sonic has had a fair share of problems lately. His games have been mostly miss, with some hits every now and then (Colours and Generations). Unfortunately, the release of Boom has sullied all the positive strides the franchise made. This thread will detail how to make the Ultimate Sonic Game and how to save the series!

 

No convoluted plot

 

Most platformers don't have stupidly drawn out plots with horribly voice-acted dialogue. 

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Well, except Modern Sonic titles unfortunately. 

 

Whilst the games have lately been attempting to get rid of the ridiculous and pointless plots they still persist in a half-hearted manner. All a game like Sonic, Mario, Rayman or Kirby needs is a very minimalist plot with very little or no dialogue. We don't need the badly-written long scripts, pointless new side-characters every new game or lame new 'monsters of the week' such as Chaos, Iblis or the Deadly Six. The Classic Sonic games got it nailed perfectly. All we need is Sonic fighting Eggman and getting all the Chaos Emeralds. It's simple and effective, sometimes less really is more. The badly-drawn out and convoluted plots the series is notorious for just acts as needless baggage. 

 

Let's scrap these silly plots and focus on the game itself!

 

Let's focus on Sonic and ditch the over-abundance of friends

 

Like the plots, Sonic Team has been making moves to cut off the excess fat that's been bloating the series: the over-abundance of friends. Sonic has so many useless friends he could fill an opera house with them! Whilst we are thankfully not forced to play as them any more we are still subjected to them turning up and being obnoxious in our games.

 

screenshot20110913at525.png

 

I mean, just look at this! How many pointless cameos do we need? Let's just stick to a couple of characters please, instead of having an ensemble of wafer-thin interchangeable personalities. How about just sticking to Sonic, Tails and Eggman? Do we really need these pointless characters fluffing up the games?

 

Again, look at other platformers! Do we see a million friends pointlessly filling up Mario, Rayman or Kirby? No, because the games have memorable characters who are independent of each other. Not these kind of cookie-cutter characters as seen in newer Sonic games. 

 

Again, let's get back to the basics! It might be better to just focus the game on Sonic and Eggman, so we can get the dreaded convoluted plot weaving out of the game!

 

Make the games fast and lose the fear of speed

 

Sonic Generations was a truly great game, partly due to how fast and exhilarating it was. Whilst the Boost sacrifices a bit of control, it greatly increases the flow and pace of the games. Recent titles like Lost World and Boom have shown an almost fear of speed. Why is SEGA trying to move away from a winning formula?

 

Sonic_Generations_-_Green_Hill_-_Game_Sh

 

Just let us go fast! Why do we need to slow down and plod about in the new games? Sonic doesn't need to be afraid of its own identity, we need the games to stand out from the crowd and not mingle in with all the other generic platformers from a bygone age!

 

Ideally we should focus on the Boost gameplay from Generations and really accommodate the levels for them. Sonic does speed better than any other game on the market, let's be proud of that!

 

Conclusion

 

To conclude, there are many other ways you could improve the series, but I believe these to be the three most important points!

 

Please feel free to discuss your Ultimate Sonic Game and anything further you could add to save the franchise and its reputation!

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The boost is a bad mechanic that leads to shallow level design reliant on automation that only creates the illusion of meaningful gameplay etc etc everything I've been saying for years now.

Seriously though this has nothing to do with being "afraid" of speed. It has everything to do with constant, extreme speed leading to bad gameplay. They need to learn how to balance it.

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I'm sorry it's like this, but you're just saying what most fans said for years. Even if your preferencies are debatable through opinion, which I'm not going to talk about here, you're not bringing anything new to the table. Plus, an "Ultimate Sonic Game Topic" is a pretty arrogant thing in itself. If you really want to create that Ultimate Sonic Game, why don't you do it yourself? You could learn a lot, and you would be equally happy in the end. But seeing how you're presenting your ideas, and being so categorical, you're not helping in any way. Plus, as SenEDtor say, it's inappropriate to just create a topic for THIS kind of thing, there's already other topics ready for that. Sorry for being harsh, but it would be a lot better if you just didn't presentend your opinions like that, and most importantly, presented your arguments with FACTS, so that they would sound believable.

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Rehashing Generations is not going to bring this franchise out of the pit it's still kind of in. We know this because it didn't happen the first time, so I don't understand why we keep having topics that are essentially a rehash of "Making Generations 2 will totes solve world hunger" (seriously, how many of these topics have you made?) There wasn't some abundance of people coming out of the closet as Sonic fans or proclaiming Sonic was now decidedly back on top. People played it, liked it, and moved on to a game that actually mattered more, like Skyrim, Arkham City, Modern Warfare 3, Uncharted 3, and a host of others.

 

That's the thing; Console platformers of all stripes that aren't Mario are going to have to reconcile continuing to exist in an industry that doesn't cater to the same ol' archaic, context-less, cutesy, six hour platformers that were popular in the 90s if the goal is actually to resurrect the franchise to being competitive with the games and franchises I named above. Two whole decades of games, tech, and trends have passed us all by and as Sonic fans we're here still acting like gamers don't care to connect to the world and the characters that populate it, like Last of Us wasn't a fucking thing. 

Now, I personally don't know the answer to that conundrum. Perhaps there is no answer; perhaps Sonic is going to eventually just fade away regardless of what he does at this point. Or maybe he'll move to PC and mobile exclusively and be buddy-buddy with Shovel Knight and the Angry Birds while the console sphere keep moving forward without him. But I know a potential answer isn't just to do the bare minimum with the medium and franchise, especially when Sonic Team can't even do the bare minimum as well as Rayman and Donkey Kong can. Seriously, no one celebrates the C students, and as Sonic fans we should stop doing the same.

Edited by Nepenthe
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Oh brilliant. A Sonic game filled with bad things.

 

First off. There is absolutely nothing. NOTHING wrong with having a deep story and having a serious reason to get engaged into the story. What needs to happen is Sega needs to hire some competent story writers (Ian Flynn) to actually write a really great story based around the characters. What you are asking for is exactly what is wrong with the games now. The stories are shit, the characters and their personalities are flimsy and the jokes for the most part are absolutely dreadful. 

 

Secondly, oh hey look! It's another person who doesn't actually explain why Sonic's friends are bad. Why? Just tell me why? What is wrong with having Sonic's friends there? Exactly how does it drag the game down by having them in cameos? In fact, one of the biggest problems with the games right now is the fact that Sonic was the only playable character, where people (Myself included) wanted to play as Tails, and Knuckles again. But you do not give any sort of reasoning as to why they are bad and should be thrown away.

 

Thirdly, what you described was the Boost gameplay. Something that many either hate or feel it needs fixing. Me personally I think it needs to be based on a risk/reward system. You should earn it by playing the level and playing it good.

 

In conclusion, it feels like the only thing you've described is rehashing games and doing things that have massive flaws, all the while not actually describing why any of this should work. Sure Mario and Kirby have a small cast but that's because they have almost no plot apart from Mario must save Peach or Kirby is hungry or gets thrown into some wacky adventure. Sonic games have been more plot heavy and ever since it's taken a leap to simpler plots, the story has gotten terrible with bad writers and here's the thing, thanks to Ian Flynn, we already know that really great plots can be created around Sonic so seeing simple, crappy plots littered with bad jokes in the games feels like a waste of the characters themselves.

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I feel like something like you described could actually do a lot of good for the franchise in the same vein as Rayman Origins and Donkey Kong did for their respective franchises if there was a tight, replayable, mechanics focused game that came out of it. The problem is Sega hasn't shown that they could pull something like that off yet. I had a lot of fun with Generations but it's not even comparable to the fun I had with Mario 3D World or Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze.I honestly wouldn't mind if there was a small scale Sonic platformer like the ones I mentioned above but Sonic Team doesn't seem cut out for the job. They'd have to get someone who understands platformers on a mechanical level really well to do it for them.

 

I don't think story and characters necessarily have any need to be absent either as long as they're integrated into the game well, playable or not. There are games that manage to blend their stories and their gameplay together in really creative ways like Kid Icarus Uprising and Portal 2.It's not impossible it's just...again, Sonic Team might not be the ones that would be able to pull something like that off. 

 

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I'd prefer if the series aimed for simple but evocative characterization over complexity and depth. The series needs to be snappy, both because it's an action series and because it's already pushed everyone's patience to the breaking point.

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Rehashing Generations is not going to bring this franchise out of the pit it's still kind of in. 

 

I don't want a rehash of Generations. In fact, no where in my post does it imply I want a rehash of Generations. I even used a picture from Generations to show how ridiculous the over-abundance of friends are. People just assume that because a lot of people liked the Boost that means everyone wants Generations 2, intact with level fanfare and Classic Sonic. You can like part of the core gameplay without wanting a rehash of said game believe it or not.

 

That's the thing; Console platformers of all stripes that aren't Mario are going to have to reconcile continuing to exist in an industry that doesn't cater to the same ol' archaic, context-less, cutesy, six hour platformers that were popular in the 90s 

 

So I guess Kirby, Donkey Kong, Rayman, Braid, Limbo, Super Meat Boy, Yoshi, LittleBigPlanet, Journey, Ratchet and Clank and Trine weren't successful lately! Jeez, looks like I had all the facts wrong!

 

Now, I personally don't know the answer to that conundrum. Perhaps there is no answer; perhaps Sonic is going to eventually just fade away regardless of what he does at this point.

 

Obviously this will happen to one of gaming's biggest icons  :rolleyes:

 

 

especially when Sonic Team can't even do the bare minimum as well as Rayman and Donkey Kong can.

 

Rayman and Donkey Kong are A-Class games, they are stiff competition and aren't the prequisite calibre to guarantee a game's success. Sonic Team are just fine at handling speed in games, in fact they are the best in the gaming field at it. The problem with Sonic Team is they can't keep the simplicity of what they are good at: they throw loads of random fluff in the games and dilute them. Examples of said problems I've listed above.

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I don't want a rehash of Generations. In fact, no where in my post does it imply I want a rehash of Generations. I even used a picture from Generations to show how ridiculous the over-abundance of friends are. People just assume that because a lot of people liked the Boost that means everyone wants Generations 2, intact with level fanfare and Classic Sonic. You can like part of the core gameplay without wanting a rehash of said game believe it or not.

No plot, continued pushing aside of characters in the gameplay and plot, and Boost everywhere sounds like Generations 2 to me. Even if you took Classic Sonic and the nostalgia out, I still wouldn't want it, not as a $50 console game when I've gotten far more fun and quality hours out of the $5 One Finger Death Punch. Sonic games need to come harder than what you're describing if I'm to think of them as anything other than genuinely mediocre.

 

So I guess Kirby, Donkey Kong, Rayman, Braid, Limbo, Super Meat Boy, Yoshi, LittleBigPlanet, Journey, Ratchet and Clank and Trine weren't successful lately! Jeez, looks like I had all the facts wrong!

Forgive me for thinking you understood the context of my post, or even that it was 2015, and that any of these weren't actually the new face of the industry, or even as relevant as Sonic was during his own heyday over 20 years ago. You should see Treyarch and Naughty Dog's Twitter accounts right now; they're totally scrambling to include rewind mechanics, cute big-headed protagonists, and colorful yarn in their franchises. Too late; they're already behind the curve!

 

Obviously this will happen to one of gaming's biggest icons  :rolleyes:

Hey Crash fans, how's that new game working out for you-- oh.... I see. Well, better luck next year! 

 

Rayman and Donkey Kong are A-Class games, they are stiff competition and aren't the prequisite calibre to guarantee a game's success. Sonic Team are just fine at handling speed in games, in fact they are the best in the gaming field at it. The problem with Sonic Team is they can't keep the simplicity of what they are good at: they throw loads of random fluff in the games and dilute them. Examples of said problems I've listed above.

The fact that we're at the point where we're not competing with Rayman and Donkey Kong in the quality department anymore, when Sonic actually was beyond them until around Heroes, says wonders about yours and others' expectations. If you're okay with alright arcade experiences that are but flashes in the pan, then more power to you. I wager Sega's future forays and their mobile output have a high chance of appealing to you. But I expect better out of the franchise than that.

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Also, how the fuck does Ratchet & Clank help your case? Ratchet & Clank is the total opposite of everything you said and the way you used them as examples makes it sound like you don't have a clue what they are beyond ''platformer'' and ''animated''. Ratchet & Clank features a really amazing storyline throughout each game, which goes into the issues of putting the past behind you, and moving onward, the topic of friendship and forgiveness, and so much more.

 

There is a bunch of characters in each game but each are very well characterized and likeable, each with their own story arc. Ratchet struggles between what's right and what he personally wants, from wanting to find the lombaxes to stopping the destruction of the universe. Clank goes from a logical thinking and naive machine to a likeable, humorous and humble person who wants the best for the universe. Qwark goes from a scheming asshole who onlys wants things for his own gain to a egotistical person who's heart is in the right place and who genuinely wants to do good and so much more.

 

For the final blow in you trying to compare them to Mario. Ratchet features some very deep gameplay that mixes platforming, gunplay, RPG elements and leveling up, and buying new and more powerful weapons as the game progresses. Ratchet is nothing like Kirby or Mario.

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continued pushing aside of characters in the gameplay and plot... sounds like Generations 2 to me.

 

Generations put all the characters back in and pushed them all in your face after Colours and Unleashed made an effort to take them out. So, yeah.

 

I still wouldn't want it, not as a $50 console game when I've gotten far more fun and quality hours out of the $5 One Finger Death Punch. Sonic games need to come harder than what you're describing if I'm to think of them as anything other than genuinely mediocre.

 

That's your problem, not the problem of the vast market there is for this kind of game. Look how Colours sold and all the other platformers I listed. Heck, even Generations sold well on the so-called doomed install base on Sony and Microsoft who don't care about these things. If the install base is appropriate then Sonic games that are designed as I laid out do really well. Just because you don't want it doesn't mean it's commercially unviable. 

 

You should see Treyarch and Naughty Dog's Twitter accounts right now; they're totally scrambling to include rewind mechanics, cute big-headed protagonists, and colorful yarn in their franchises. Too late; they're already behind the curve!

 

Oh please...

 

Hey Crash fans, how's that new game working out for you-- oh.... I see. Well, better luck next year! 

 

Crash died because his creators left him and he's owned by a company who have no interest in that kind of genre (Activision) and bought him out just in case someone can think of a way to modernise him, like they did with Spyro Skylanders. Ignoring all the games I've listed above and throwing out Crash as a fallen star (who was never as big as Sonic mind) is ridiculous.

 

The fact that we're at the point where we're not competing with Rayman and Donkey Kong in the quality department anymore, when Sonic actually was beyond them until around Heroes, says wonders about yours and others' expectations. If you're okay with alright arcade experiences that are but flashes in the pan, then more power to you.

 

Oh wow. Donkey Kong Country has always been really good and an A-Class game, not quite sure what you are getting at there. As for Rayman, Origins essentially started a new series by a completely different team that was spiritually based off Rayman 1. It's not fair to compare Origins to the original Rayman.

 

And I would hardly call New Rayman and Donkey Kong 'alright arcade experiences' or a 'flash in the pan'. They are just some of the best games and best-selling products on their respective platforms! What an overblown thing to say!

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sonicadventurehdlexgr.png

 

I'm never dropping this

 

It's obviously going to look ridiculous marketed as a serious/cinematic game like Heavy Rain or Metal Gear Solid. Mario would look just as stupid and it was also never marketed like the more serious games in its heyday either. Same with Sonic on the Genesis, if it was marketed like Mortal Kombat it would look equally stupid. What a ludicrous strawman.

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It's obviously going to look ridiculous marketed as a serious/cinematic game like Heavy Rain or Metal Gear Solid. Mario would look just as stupid and it was also never marketed like the more serious games in its heyday either. Same with Sonic on the Genesis, if it was marketed like Mortal Kombat it would look equally stupid. What a ludicrous strawman.

 

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I have no idea where you got any of that from and what you're trying to tell me

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Don't play dumb, it's clear for all what you are trying to do ;)

 

Say that I like Sonic Adventure and Sonic 3? Yeah I've been doing that for a while.

 

Not sure where you got Heavy Rain and Metal Gear from of all things

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Let's focus on Sonic and ditch the over-abundance of friends

 

Like the plots, Sonic Team has been making moves to cut off the excess fat that's been bloating the series: the over-abundance of friends. Sonic has so many useless friends he could fill an opera house with them! Whilst we are thankfully not forced to play as them any more we are still subjected to them turning up and being obnoxious in our games.

 

screenshot20110913at525.png

 

I mean, just look at this! How many pointless cameos do we need? Let's just stick to a couple of characters please, instead of having an ensemble of wafer-thin interchangeable personalities. How about just sticking to Sonic, Tails and Eggman? Do we really need these pointless characters fluffing up the games?

 

Again, look at other platformers! Do we see a million friends pointlessly filling up Mario, Rayman or Kirby? No, because the games have memorable characters who are independent of each other. Not these kind of cookie-cutter characters as seen in newer Sonic games. 

 

Again, let's get back to the basics! It might be better to just focus the game on Sonic and Eggman, so we can get the dreaded convoluted plot weaving out of the game!

I think this isn't a case of not needing a cast to help push the series forward, but the fact the new cast was mishandled in some areas. Some more than others, of course, but the fact of the matter is that if they put forth an effort to attempt to iron out some kinks in the way these characters were used and portrayed then I think it could be something that could help the series reach new heights.

 

Take Rouge, for instance - she's a thief who sets out only to achieve her own goals and is smart enough to work any side of the conflict, whether it be the one she's for or against, to being a mere stepping stone for achieving her own goals. She's opportunistic and selfish enough to where you don't know whether or not she's on your side. In spite of this, she's not depicted as inherently eviland will do what's right if the time really calls for it - regardless of whether it helps forward her own agenda. I like the whole concept of her character quite a bit, and if she was used correctly, she could've been such an interesting character because of the way she melded with the main cast. Her anti-heroism didn't feel forced to me, unlike Shadow, and therefore I'm under the impression that she really could've been a great addition to the series based on what her interactions with Sonic & co. would've been like.

 

Then they kinda fucked that up by reducing her to being nothing more than a satellite character to Shadow, apart from a couple of places here and there. She was never able to realize her full potential because they wanted to push another character so badly, and because of that, something that could've potentially improved upon the series was wasted.

 

It's just things like that - maybe it's not the fact that there are more characters than just Sonic, Eggman, and Tails, but it's the fact that they flopped in execution somewhere with so many of the ones they introduced in modern games. Many aren't needed, admittedly, but when the main character has such a defined personality like Sonic has, after a while things are going to need to be mixed up to keep things from getting stale. That's why I do think that the addition of friends is something that was needed and maintaining a diverse cast is important to the quality of the franchise as a whole.

 

So taking out a few would be good, but I honestly think that just being Sonic, Eggman, and Tails would make for a dull experience by today's standards. Sonic's little (I use that term loosely) group of friends is pretty important, I think, and if they were to execute these characters in a way that didn't suck,  I think it'd go a long way to help resurrect the franchise from the fiery pits of hell.

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Generations put all the characters back in and pushed them all in your face after Colours and Unleashed made an effort to take them out. So, yeah.

A few cutscenes, three bosses, and a few missions, most of which weren't mandatory, totally counts as throat-shoving. Let's just cut to brass tacks and kill all of them so at least we have a canon reason to just never use them again. Tails included; Sonic can actually fly the Tornado since it's his plane, so what good is that two-failed freak?

 

That's your problem, not the problem of the vast market there is for this kind of game. Look how Colours sold and all the other platformers I listed. Heck, even Generations sold well on the so-called doomed install base on Sony and Microsoft who don't care about these things. If the install base is appropriate Sonic games that are designed as I laid out do really well. Just because you don't want it doesn't mean it's commercially unviable.

Stop looking at things in a vacuum and look at how well Sonic's nearest holiday competition has sold for the past decade. Sonic does well enough to keep Sega from completely imploding in on itself with its shitty decisions. No one discounts this. But he is not a Grand Theft Auto type of linchpin, nor is he even as relevant as he once was when Sega cared about him beyond a flotation device. And my ideal is not to see him coast along with Generations-esque games, which is what he's been doing and will continue to do with these kinds of minimalist games. My ideal is to see him as actually mattering but within a gaming and console space that has actually moved on from the 90s.

 

Oh please...

Mayhaps if one doesn't like sarcasm, then one shouldn't employ it first.

 

Crash died because his creators left him and he's owned by a company who have no interest in that kind of genre (Activision) and bought him out just in case someone can think of a way to modernise him, like they did with Spyro Skylanders. Ignoring all the games I've listed above and throwing out Crash as a fallen star (who was never as big as Sonic mind) is ridiculous.

Do you think if people cared about platformers in the way they care about other genres, and subsequently if platformers as a genre were as financially lucrative as they were in the 90s, that Activision would still be sitting on Crash Bandicoot? Do you think for a second that anyone would've thought to "modernize" Spyro, or Conker, or Banjo, if we still lived during a time when platformers mattered as much? Do you think Ubisoft would've sent Rayman Origins- a game we all recognize as good- out to die against Assassin's Creed or delayed its sequel so needlessly, if platformers mattered? Do you think Sonic would be treated as badly as he has been over the years if he were worth bigger money and attention? Do you literally think Sonic is as competitive as he once was? Of course not; you keep telling us Donkey Kong is the gold standard now and we shouldn't expect the character who was once a killer app for Sega's consoles to compete on that quality level anymore. It's too much to expect that out of someone with Sonic's pedigree, surely.

 

Oh wow. Donkey Kong Country has always been really good and an A-Class game, not quite sure what you are getting at there. As for Rayman, Origins essentially started a new series by a completely different team that was spiritually based off Rayman 1. It's not fair to compare Origins to the original Rayman.

Never said these games are bad, nor am I talking about the original iterations of these games. I'm talking the Returns series and Origins, respectively.

 

And I would hardly call New Rayman and Donkey Kong 'alright arcade experiences' or a 'flash in the pan'. They are just some of the best games and best-selling products on their respective platforms! What an overblown thing to say!

Neither would I. They're great games, which is why I was talking about the two Sonic games we've had under the designations of your OP. Colors and Generations are boring as shit, and then they had the nerve to ask me for $50. Sega either needs to cut the price down significantly or actually develop a Sonic game worth paying that much. And no, just because you don't do anything overwhelmingly wrong in your game doesn't mean it's amazing.

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Mayhaps if one doesn't like sarcasm, then one shouldn't employ it first.

 

You employed it first

 

:(

 

We know this because it didn't happen the first time, so I don't understand why we keep having topics that are essentially a rehash of "Making Generations 2 will totes solve world hunger" (seriously, how many of these topics have you made?) 

 

 

And you are a moderator so you shouldn't be mean :(

 

Every time I try to make a positive thread I get a load of people flooding in with a load of negative energy and taking it out on me. It makes me sad :(

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