The Ultimate Sonic Game to Resurrect the Franchise

[sonicgirl313]

Well this thread has turned into pure chaos. Someone should use chaos control. *gets shot for terrible pun*

In all seriousness the reasons you listed would not bring Sonic into the spotlight once again. What Sonic needs is a team that doesn't see him as a cash cow. That's the only reason they pump out so many games, trying to find something that will be a big hit, because they saw how much money Sonic brings in. And because of this choice they neglect their other franchises.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

First off, she isn't being mean. She's telling it as it is. Yes, she is a moderator but that doesn't mean she has to be ultra nice and try to put down every point in a friendly manner. She's telling you valid points and she's stating them as it is. She isn't being mean. She's simply not bullshitting around. 

 

Secondly, you do realize this board is for discussion? Yes? That means you must and I do mean must expect debates and debating. It would be downright silly to expect every person to just come into a thread and say ''I totally agree with you 100%. This is totes how Sonic should be :)''. This is an opinion thread. That means we have a right to give our opinion and debate about them. What I'm getting sick and tired of is you taking every single valid point we make and claim ''Oh, you're being mean'' or ''You are so negative'' or ''This forum overreacts so much''. That is not how you debate someone and when you make a thread entitled ''The Ultimate Sonic game to Resurrect the fanbase'', I have no clue whatsoever how you didn't expect people to debate with you.

[Diamond Sonic]

And because of this choice they neglect their other franchises.

 

I actually agree that SEGA neglect their other franchises.

 

Kind of like Sony!

[Jin.]

Ultimate game?

In a franchise with a divided fanbase THIS bad?

 

Ha! Good one! Oh man, I nearly thought you were serious...

[Diamond Sonic]

This is an opinion thread. That means we have a right to give our opinion and debate about them

 

There's a difference between debating and intentionally trying to be confrontational whilst debating.

 

It's not nice .  Sonic is for kids too!

[Nepenthe]

I was not being sarcastic in that post. I'm genuinely curious: How many times are we going to discuss how much of a surefire way another classic or Generations-esque game that merely ticks off the checkboxes of broad public demands is going to be the ultimate thing that saves the franchise, when not only does it not count for more specific design principles and variables, but it overestimates the impact of a single game of that artistic magnitude? And it's not like I don't think a bunch of games that the public isn't repulsed by isn't a good thing. If anything, Sega could probably coast by on that level of quality for a long time. But when everyone else around you is spending hours of time being genuinely blown away by franchises that embrace modernity, context, and narrative versus shoving all of that in a corner to relive decades' old design principles forever, well, I want more from the franchise than that too, especially since part of the point of Sonic since the beginning has been to be more cutting edge than the usual platformer in the first place, hence why we actually had modernity, context, and narrative in spades. Seriously, I'm just tired of being peddled this idea that settling for the bare minimum is good enough.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

No one is being confrontational about it. They are stating their point and explaining why it works. No offence but you are taking all of this far too seriously. At the end of the day, no one is insulting you. 

[Sami]

I actually agree that SEGA neglect their other franchises.

 

Kind of like Sony!

 

Sony lets their developers make new games if they want

 

Dastardly!

[Diamond Sonic]

I was not being sarcastic in that post. I'm genuinely curious

 

Thanks . I'll get back to you tomorrow

Sony lets their developers make new games if they want

 

Dastardly!

 

[WhoWhatMan]

And you are a moderator so you shouldn't be mean

 

... by pointing out that you're being really close minded?

Like sorry to break it to you, but not everyone is going to agree on everything you say. Even if this is the "key" to helping the Sonic franchise, there will be someone who don't like how the series is doing or the direction it is going. Everyone got different taste and views on stuff. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Uh. You do realize Sony gave money to Indie developers and has funded a lot of original games from other developers in order to make new games on Playstation right? Games like Bloodborne and The Order being examples of that?

[Wittymations]

Boy, you're pretty much describing the exact game I don't want. Hell, at least Generations had the courtesy to pretend to give a damn about the other characters. This game would flat out tell you that, "These other characters are bad. You hear me? Bad."

 

Honestly, I'm pretty fucking sick of Colors/ Generation type games. I've been sick of it since Colors.

[Celestia]

No convoluted plot

 

Let's focus on Sonic and ditch the over-abundance of friends

SEGA has already basically done these things. I mean, the extended cast really only shows up in spinoffs post-'06, with Generations being a special occasion.

 

Make the games fast and lose the fear of speed

 

Sonic Generations was a truly great game, partly due to how fast and exhilarating it was. Whilst the Boost sacrifices a bit of control, it greatly increases the flow and pace of the games. Recent titles like Lost World and Boom have shown an almost fear of speed. Why is SEGA trying to move away from a winning formula?

Speed is an important part of the franchise's identity, but it's not all there is. Focusing on a slower top speed is a completely understandable design decision. Personally I'd want them to aim more towards Adventure (which is...only slow in comparison to the boost games, and frankly everything in the series is slow compared to that) rather than Boom...but I digress.

 

Just let us go fast! Why do we need to slow down and plod about in the new games? Sonic doesn't need to be afraid of its own identity, we need the games to stand out from the crowd and not mingle in with all the other generic platformers from a bygone age!

If that's the case, why bring up a ton of other platformers and their simplistic/lack of stories and say "Sonic should do this"?

[sonicgirl313]

I actually agree that SEGA neglect their other franchises.

 

Kind of like Sony!

Oh let me guess, you shot that wise crack because of my psn profile. Ha ha ha very funny. If you couldn't tell that was sarcasm.

Sony doesn't neglect franchises mainly because they only publish and hold rights. It's developers that make the characters and franchises for Sony. It was Naughty Dog's choice that we don't have another Jak game. It was Activision's choice that all those Crash games got cancelled. It was Square Einx's choice to announce KH3 too early. In truth Sony created no franchises, they only own the rights to the games the developers made for them. While yes Sony does have control over choices over the advertisement department and do decided whether some games get released or not. (Still mad that they forced Sanzaru to end Sly 4 on a cliffhanger and because of their poor advertisement their might not be a Sly 5) But the choice mainly falls to the developers. So don't shove that Sony argument at me.

EDIT: Whoops I forgot funding, Sony also does funding. ^^;

[Sami]

 

 

You're not the only salty Jak/Ratchet/Spyro/Crash/Sly fan to say this on here, and I have the same response to everyone. 

 

Sony doesn't even own the PS1 platformer IPs anymore, Ratchet is still getting games, Sly got a game just two years ago, and Naughty Dog doesn't want to work on Jak anymore.

 

Be happy Sony doesn't treat their first party studios like sweatshops, unlike SEGA has with Sonic Team for the past decade. With that kind of attitude we never would have gotten Bloodborne, The Last of Us, inFamous, Jet Set Radio, or NiGHTS.

[sonicgirl313]

 

You're not the only salty Jak/Ratchet/Spyro/Crash/Sly fan to say this on here, and I have the same response to everyone. 

 

Sony doesn't even own the PS1 platformer IPs anymore, Ratchet is still getting games, Sly got a game just two years ago, and Naughty Dog doesn't want to work on Jak anymore.

 

Be happy Sony doesn't treat their first party studios like sweatshops, unlike SEGA has with Sonic Team for the past decade. With that kind of attitude we never would have gotten Bloodborne, The Last of Us, inFamous, Jet Set Radio, or NiGHTS.

The Last of Us was almost a Jak and Daxter reboot but Naughty Dog changed their minds because they said that it felt like they were making the game to cash in on the Jak name rather than the fact that they were genuinely interested. Well I guess it's partially good that they don't look at Jak as a cash cow.

*starts hoping that Jak 2017 movie prediction comes true*

[azoo]

Okay but no really, we're getting off-topic. Stop doing that.

 

Let's talk more about what we expect out of a good Sonic game instead of jumping at throats with assumptions. (Also why is this suddenly a Sony discussion, also stop).

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You don't fix a franchise with just one game. I may be in the minority, seeing as I care more about a game's quality than whether it's exactly what I want, but the point still stands that a stream of at least 4 or 5 competent games (or rather, games viewed as competent regardless of actual quality) is what the franchise needs. Consistency is key. If a game uses the boost and gets the kind of praise Colors and Generations did, then nobody should fucking care what other people say about the boost because it works and what they wanted didn't. If a game has momentum-based physics and turns Sonic into a marble instead of a character with actual controls, then sure, I may not like it as much as other games, but I'm not going to doubt it's quality if it does well and is profitable. The reason one could say that Colors "saved" the franchise is not because it was the OMG best gam evar (well it is pretty great actually) but because up until RoL's disastrous reception Sonic had some respect because the quality was a lot more consistent (uh Lost World 3DS what no shut up), even if only for about 3 years. And honestly, the franchise doesn't need "saving", per say. I mean, it's still in better shape than it was when Shadow, and then 06, and then Secret Rings, and then Unleashed, and then Black Knight, a stream of really not very good games came out. Hell, Rise of Lyric is better than all of those. The point is, there is never going to be an "ultimate Sonic game", because not only are fans divided over what they think is better, the devs themselves are divided because they are always listening to different fans who want different things. That's why they don't stick with one formula all the time. That's why they need to either do each formula right, or start thinking "maybe these people who don't have our jobs aren't the ones who should be telling us how to do them" and just make a good game, regardless of whether it's the Sonic game that fans want.

[Johnny Boy]

I fail to see how the friends are a problem. Especially since Sega has essentially been saying "fuck you" to any characters that are not Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, or Eggman

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic's fractured his fanbase into multiple niches to such a point that an "ultimate" Sonic game simply isn't possible. 

 

An ultimate "2D Classic," an ultimate "3D Boosty," or an ultimate "Adventure-ish" Sonic maybe, but Sonic altogether? There isn't a cohesive, definitive Sonic anymore. Some are certainly better than others, but no matter what you do, you're going to piss someone off.

[azoo]

Sonic's fractured his fanbase into multiple niches to such a point that an "ultimate" Sonic game simply isn't possible. 

 

An ultimate "2D Classic," an ultimate "3D Boosty," or an ultimate "Adventure-ish" Sonic maybe, but Sonic altogether? There isn't a cohesive, definitive Sonic anymore. Some are certainly better than others, but no matter what you do, you're going to piss someone off.

[Indigo Rush]

I'd personally opt for solidifying the strongest gameplay styles (Classic 2D, Adventure 3D, Modern/Rush 2.5D) and just polish them and change a few variables to keep things fresh. 

 

I mean... Mario has 2D and 3D, Zelda has 2D and 3D, Metroid has 2D and 3D, Sonic can do something similar, but just with another one (2.5D) for handhelds or something. 

[Nepenthe]

I don't think an ultimate game that is maximally pleasing is a thing that's automatically off the table, because I'm not convinced the fracturing is the result of ideas that are completely mutually exclusive from one another. If, for example, Sega opts to use a few multiple characters again but makes them optional, which of the two supposed irreconcilable sides of "Playable Characters" and "Sonic-Only" is actually losing out here? It would be an interesting topic to sit down and hash out what all of us want and to see which preferences could mesh to create something harmonious.

 

I also don't think it's simply down to concessions but also to quality, because the fact of the matter is a good chunk of the base loves the games that Sonic constantly tries to emulate. After all, it's possible that I would relinquish the idea of characters ever being playable again if I could simultaneously guarantee games that were as good as Mario Galaxy. The necessity of any game's individual characteristics and how prominent they need to be depends upon a balance of technical polish and art, which in turn is determined by the ultimate goal a game is trying to achieve. This is probably why the smaller experiences get so much guff- Sonic Team hasn't provided a Sonic experience that's sharp enough to make up for the sudden dearth in other elements like story and characters that fans had to look forward to in addition to the gameplay, and subsequently it's why other platformers pass the sniff test using similar design theories that also push narrative to the backseat.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Crazy idea: why don't they take all three styles of gameplay, make full separate games out of each, and then release them all on the same disc?

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this is a terrible and stupid idea that wouldn't work for numerous reasons I have overlooked do to being both tired and procrastinating currently

but hey maybe it wouldn't be and I'm totally on to something here, right?

yeah no i didn't think so either

can you tell I'm having fun with spoiler tags right now

[Agie]

How many more of these topics can we get?

 

I don't know. What I do know is, I won't contribute to the number. I'm in the minority that actually likes most, if not all of the newer Sonic games.