The Ultimate Sonic Game to Resurrect the Franchise

[Diamond Sonic]

I wasnt being sarcastic when I was talking about Sony   I was just pointing out that Sony have neglected some of their franchises recently. 

 

 

Oh let me guess, you shot that wise crack because of my psn profile. Ha ha ha very funny. If you couldn't tell that was sarcasm.

 

[Drawloverlala]

a game to resurrect the franchise? ehhe i think its not dead yet... since Sonic Generations this franchise has gained some little fans

like my cousings by example..

 

maybe its just kinda low.. but since when? at least since Sonic Boom or Sonic Lost World?

Sonic 06 was a bad step for Sonic franchise but after 2 Sonic storybook games, Sonic Unleashed , Colors and generations i see the franchise still alive..

 

maybe for return to "good times" of Sonic... then the "ultimate game" it should be a "Sonic Generations" type game.. the nostalgia sells very well  besides we wanted more from that game... it was an ambitious game.. and if Sonic team takes its time (edit: and specially the time) and the money to do something so ambitious as that, maybe they will get to come back to the good times again.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Drawloverlala

[Diamond Sonic]

How many times are we going to discuss how much of a surefire way another classic or Generations-esque game that merely ticks off the checkboxes of broad public demands is going to be the ultimate thing that saves the franchise, when not only does it not count for more specific design principles and variables, but it overestimates the impact of a single game of that artistic magnitude? And it's not like I don't think a bunch of games that the public isn't repulsed by isn't a good thing. If anything, Sega could probably coast by on that level of quality for a long time. But when everyone else around you is spending hours of time being genuinely blown away by franchises that embrace modernity, context, and narrative versus shoving all of that in a corner to relive decades' old design principles forever, well, I want more from the franchise than that too, especially since part of the point of Sonic since the beginning has been to be more cutting edge than the usual platformer in the first place, hence why we actually had modernity, context, and narrative in spades. Seriously, I'm just tired of being peddled this idea that settling for the bare minimum is good enough.

 

Hi Nepenthe . I'm going to answer your question!

 

When I put 'Ultimate Sonic Game' I was meaning in my opinion. I know this isn't the objectively best Sonic game, but I think it's the best option. Okay, it's pretty overblown to call it 'Ultimate' but these are just forums, I'm just trying to have fun lol!

 

I can understand that you want the games to embrace modern milestones of game design and not be stuck in 16 bit heritage, but I think that Sonic games always work best when they are more simple and minimalist. The great Sonic games on the Genesis were simple, not just because of hardware limitations, but because they were designed to be evoking and minimalist. As you know, minimalism and simplicity aren't bad in themselves, in fact they can be art forms. Look at some really great games: ICO, Shadow of the Colossus. Portal, Mario Galaxy and Rayman Origins are very pure experiences. This is how I personally feel Sonic games should be.

 

That doesn't mean I think we should be aiming to replicate Sonic 2 or Sonic Generations or whatever. I just feel we should be cutting away from the unnecessary fluff that Sonic games have gotten entangled up in lately.  Sure, other games have embraced deep narratives, but I just don't feel this is the most pressing matter for a platformer like Sonic. The most important aspect for a platformer is the actual core experience, getting that as pure and excellent as possible. 

[andrewtuell1991]

Sure, other games have embraced deep narratives, but I just don't feel this is the most pressing matter for a platformer like Sonic. The most important aspect for a platformer is the actual core experience, getting that as pure and excellent as possible. 

 

But you're forgetting that, for consoles, Sonic hasn't been a pure platform game series since S3K.  Since Sonic Adventure, a good portion of the 3D games have added Action/Adventure elements into the mix along with hints of the RPG genre (SA1's working title was even Sonic RPG).  Returning to a pure platform experience would be pissing away almost 15 years of progress.  Working on a "simple and minimalist" series would eventually cause the series to stagnant and undergo Mega Man syndrome, something I'd never want from the Sonic franchise even though I agree that the series could use some stability.

 

All of the points you brought up in your OP have been done correctly in one game or another.  The Storybook games, while terrible in their gameplay, had some of the best storytelling in the franchise and games like S3K, Advance 1 & 2, Rush, and even Black Knight showed multiple playable characters are possible so long as they adhere closely to Sonic's gameplay instead of being practically different games altogether.  Speed is fine, it's obviously the thing the franchise is best known for, but when the speed gets to the point where Sonic controls like an RC-car over grease, it's time to tone it down.  When in comes to speed, the Adventure games had the right amount (if only they had decent level design to go along with them).

 

I'm not going to pretend that I know what it'll take for Sonic to not be the laughing stock of the community anymore, but I don't think playing it safe is the right route to go.  Even Mario is starting to feel some heat for being the same damn thing over and over again.

[Diogenes]

But you're forgetting that, for consoles, Sonic hasn't been a pure platform game series since S3K.  Since Sonic Adventure, a good portion of the 3D games have added Action/Adventure elements into the mix along with hints of the RPG genre (SA1's working title was even Sonic RPG).  Returning to a pure platform experience would be pissing away almost 15 years of progress.

What of any of that was progress? All I see is gameplay that wasn't good enough for even one game, much less worth carrying across several.

[GUILD]

The characters are one of if not the least of the issues contributing the state of the Sonic the Hedgehog series and franchise, though I'd argue that they're not an issue at all. In fact, I'll go ahead and say that. They're not an issue. Anyways, when people usually complain about "an abundance of characters" or "characters being shoved down their throats", it's usually with respect to the material past (to refrence Generations) the Dreamcast era. The reason is probably because it's only after this that it ceased to be an occassional or seasonal SEGA and crossed into "recurring" or "permanent" territory, but that's neither here nor there. Of course, I think everyone can agree that the characters aren't "annoying" in and of themselves due to design or something related to their essense and characteristics as "Sonic" characters specifically. Otherwise, I doubt you'd be playing the games in the first place. A franchise's world or universe where creating more than essentially one character in a continuity is an automatic issue is a seriously broken one. That laid out, 99% of the Sonic characters have pretty likable or at least okay designs and personas. It's not that hard to create a character that doesn't offend people on site and I honestly think SEGA succeeded.....most companies do which, looking at them, should tell a lot considering that a lot of Sonic characters share enough in common with almost every other character out there where they pass as just "characters". For our purposes, there isn't anything too radical here.

 

Getting back on stream, let's see exactly what this is all about and hopefully (for all of those who decide to visit this page and yaknow..scroll down. I guess?) lay this issue to rest. Finally. Honestly. Please.

 

Okay. Sonic's had an entire bank vault's worth of games released since his debut, agree? Just trying to put things into perspective here. He's had..   like a lot of games across a large variety of platforms. Taking into account those released during what we'll dub the "Sonic Character Problem Era", we'll list them all from earilest ot latest release and see if we can try to flesh out and come to some sort of conclusion about this so-called "serious issue" plaguing SEGA.

 

 

• Shadow the Hedgehog (GCN, Xbox, PS2; 2005)

1. There are 12 who appear with you during gameplay. None of them are playable, much less forced on you and they all only appear one at a time and that is all. One. Seriously. In the level you will have 1.) you 2.) enemies 3.) maybe a support character.
2. The only real presence they have are in cutscenes and to offer advice and sparse dialouge here and there. Aside from that,

Only one playable character who plays exactly like Sonic, albeit with guns (with an actually pretty good system and the majority of  them are optional), vehicles (alright to basic mechanics - majority of them are optional), a level skip-dive mechansim, and an explosion attack. Aside from some of the ridiculous game dynamics in lieu of completing the story as well as some seriously irritating bugs, it would have been a cool game.   Aside from Shadow, there are only about 17 characters in the entire game including Black Doom, the G.U.N Commander and the President. That information is kindof useless in and of itself without going into it, but already that's kinda just inline with some games out there though it pales in comparison to others including more popular ones.     Hitting home to the topic at hand, this game is a non issue..unless you just dislike Shadow. Disliking Shadow is entirely your prerogative and an entirely understandable preference, but if it comes to that, so is not purchasing the game. All in all only one Sonic game came out in 2005 and that's an entirely understandable thing for a steadily producing gaming franchise. Entirely understandable especially with Sonic given how much material was put out in the preceding years. There were an abundance of other Sonic games to play in 2005 and I don't think we have to get into the "you don't have to buy every new game to feel verifired, kiddo" discussion. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Rush (DS; 2005)

Sonic and Blaze are the only two playable characters. All other characters only appear in cutscenes that aren't cringeworthy at all, but nothing deserving of an Oscar. Just what you would expect out of any family-friendly videogame. Eight characters in the entire game aside from Sonic and Blaze. Blaze plays entirely like Sonic, but brings to the table a very interesting character dynamic both in and of herself and in relation to the other characters. That aside, she doesn't really appear to any serious significance aside from this game and its sequel, both of which most people think are amazing on multiple levels. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Riders (GCN, Xbox, PS2; 2006)

Seven characters including Eggman, who we all agree is a non contributor to this "problem". That aside, this is a racing game and all of the characters are playable. I think even just game-fundamentally, this isn't an issue. Multiple characters are one of the facets that make a racing game. Their mechanics are nothing distinct from Sonic's, so no problem there as the real problem would be the game in general. As far as the story goes, it's the same deal with Sonic Rush. Just a story. Nothing to really fret over aside from Jet's voice. Aren't the skippable anyways? If not, they're over in pretty much no time at all aside from the three cinematic ones which are about a minute or so..not much. The story's ridiculously simple and easy to understand. Gives context, some split second character fun and boom: raceraceraceracerace.

• SONIC THE HEDGEHOG (360, PS3; 2006)

1. Elise was a bit "forced" in the sense that we might not have wanted to do those pretty poorly designed and cheap playing levels we had to carry her in. Aside from the fact that she kissed him, which is a give or take deal breaker in and of itself with verying opinions on either side, she's not really there aside from drive in Sonic's story. She's not making the game bad. She's just there to give some background as to why you get to play as Sonic. She's not doing anything bad exisiting in the game. She does exactly what you'd expect a damsel in distress to do if captured by Eggman. No problem there. The only issues involved with her are the scenes that people, and I myself, found cringeworthy. It didn't drive me to the grave like seeing as I was focused on the good and playing the game. I will say that this was the result of poor script, not Elise being there.. much less in the game at all in any respect.
2. Silver is understandable.
3. As for the "Sonic Team", their only issue was a result of (again) poor script. Their presence was just kinda dull and blah. Not too fun. The only real exceptions I think were Amy and Blaze.

So yeah, among other things, character presentation was a problem in this game. That said, it was the presentation as opposed to the characters in and of themselves. As a side-note, I don't think making this a "Sonic/Shadow/Silver with no Support team" or even a "Sonic with no support team" game would ave solved all of the related problems at all. NON-ISSUE

Fourteen characters including Eggman, Elise, Mephiles and Iblis. Aside from Elise, these guys are just bosses and not really forced on you. They're just there to fight like in any other game. Unless you just despised their cutscene personas..

• Sonic Rivals (PSP; 2006)

I mean that was the entire premise of the game which has been said time and time again to have had the potential to be really fun if not for the poor gameplay decisions. All-in-all, it's an issue if this was all we were getting from SEGA. Since a.) it's not, b.) we got two other games that year, c.) it's just a relatilvey unrelated spinoff, not to mention the characters being there are just about never referred to as an issue with this game, NON-ISSUE

• Sonic and the Secret Rings (Wii; 2007)

You've got Sonic, Shahra, Evil Genie and Knuckles and Tails who appear a couple times in stills. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Rush Adventure (DS; 2007)

See Sonic Rush. NON-ISSUE

• Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii; 2007) (DS; 2008)

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games is the first crossover between Mario and Sonic. It is officially licensed by the International Olympic Committee through exclusive licensee International Sports Multimedia. It would be stupid to relate this to having a problem because of multiple characters (especially since you kinda need them. Same sort of deal as with Rivals). This game in and of itself is entirely unrelated to the issue at hand and thus is a NON-ISSUE.

• Sonic Rivals 2 (PSP; 2007)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic X (Leapster; 2007)

Not really worth adressing.

• Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity (Wii, PS2; 2008)

See Sonic Riders. NON-ISSUE

• Sega Superstars Tennis (360, PS3, Wii, PS2, DS; 2008)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (DS; 2008)

Like Riders' condition, characters are kindof the basis of a game like this. It was the gameplay that lessened the game in my eyes. Back on track though, this game had pretty 50/50 views. Some loved or liked it, others thought it sucked. Either way, it wasn't the characters in and of themselves. Don't think anyone's even ever adressed the characters in an of themselves as being an issue. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Unleashed (Wii, PS2, 360, PS3; 2008)

Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Amy, Chip and two college guys. Also some village people. Mainly Sonic and Chip. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic and the Black Knight (Wii; 2009)

1. Sonic+sword, Merina and bad guy. Also Amy and masked Shadow, Knuckles and Blaze who appear two or three times in stills. ._.
2. Aside from that "SonAze" fanservice... I guess you could call it? cut, you only really see them as boss battles and some further exposition courtesy of Nimue aka Arthurian Amy in an alright scene. The majority of the content in these are from Sonic anyways. Can't remember if you can skip the scenes or not, but either way that's a developer's issue, not a "character exists" issue. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Unleashed (mobile phones; 2009)

See Sonic Unleashed. NON-ISSUE

• Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Wii, DS; 2009)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (360, PS3, Wii, DS; 2010)

See Sonic Riders, Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I (iOS, Wii, PS3, 360; 2010)

Self explanatory. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Free Riders (360; 2010)

I would actually be one to say that the game would have been better had the cutscenes and characters been taken out because of some of the presentation, but that's got to do with the choices as far as scripting, voice acting, direction and cutscenes. Especially because the characters have existed priot to this game,  and also fro some of the same reasons as Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, this is a NON-ISSUE.

• Sonic Colors (Wii, DS; 2010)

Sonic, Tails and Eggman. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Generations (360, PS3, PC, 3DS; 2011)

Sonic and Tails. Five seconds of fluff dialouge per level clear and some infamously poor vocal work near the end. They honestly probably get a minute of facetime the entire game. NON-ISSUE

• Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Wii; 2011) (3DS; 2012)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II (PC, PS3, 360, Android, iOS; 2012)

Self explantory. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (360, PS3, Wii U, Vita; 2012) (PC, 3DS; 2013)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Lost World (Wii U, 3DS; 2013)

Sonic, Tails, Eggman and some bad guys. Oh yeah, think I saw Knuckles and Amy over there.. NON-ISSUE

• Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games (Wii U; 2013)

See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric / Sonic Boom: Shattered Crystal (Wii U, 3DS; 2014)

Not even playing as Super Sonic the entire time would have saved this game. NON-ISSUE

• Sonic Runners (iOS, Android; 2015)

Let's get real. See Sonic Rivals and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, or don't. Either way. In this mobile game market, this is definitley a NON-ISSUE

 

 

 

___________________________________________________

 

 

So what do you we get out of this pretty straightforward and transparent stepy by step analysis? We see that not only are characters not shoved down our throats, but there are not an abundance of them much less in a way that would warrent any complaint e.g. having them all force playable or with five minute long scenes in every game. The face that people are blaming the presence of a cast of characters as one of the reasons for Sonic's fall from the top spot in gaming is not only ludicrous, but likely based, as most Sonic opinions are these days and have been for years, off of a nonsensical bandwagon sentiment that was started by those who wanted to blame something for Sonic's apparent "fall from grace" in the eyes of gamers (which in and of itself is likely in part due to sheep mentality as well) and chose "the characters" based on a fleeting, unfounded and "seems alright to BS rn." feeling. I doubt the first people thouht that don't agree with it if they ever truly did. If you seriously have an issue with the fact that characters are just there, regardles of in what capacity, then chances are this series isn't for you and countless others probably wouldn't be either. I mean come on. This shouldn't really be a problem. You might not like a character, but to dislike all of them no matter how they're presented and even go so far as to say that they're a major detriemnt to the franchise especially when they barely do anything in the majority of the games? That I think says a lot more about the person than the franchise.

[GUILD]

What of any of that was progress? All I see is gameplay that wasn't good enough for even one game, much less worth carrying across several.

Because it wasn't carried across or because of your personal opinion..? 0.o

[Diamond Sonic]

But you're forgetting that, for consoles, Sonic hasn't been a pure platform game series since S3K.  Since Sonic Adventure, a good portion of the 3D games have added Action/Adventure elements into the mix along with hints of the RPG genre (SA1's working title was even Sonic RPG).  Returning to a pure platform experience would be pissing away almost 15 years of progress.

 

This is true but I personally believe that Sonic has nowhere near been of the same calibre since Sonic 3 and Knuckles and it's worth sacrificing tradition if it's not up to snuff. I have a soft spot for both Adventure games but I would never call them anywhere near the same league as the Genesis era titles because they both have major design flaws. Same for Generations, even though I think that's a much better overall game than the Adventure titles. I really don't care much for the other Sonic titles aside from Sonic Colours which I think is a solid game but again not A-Class.

 

I personally want to see Sonic return to his roots, for real. Kind of like Final Fantasy 9.

[Ripe]

Ultimate Sonic game? Due to the fact of there has been many different 3D gamestyles and all of them have their loyal fans makes making this game really hard.

No convoluted plot

 

Most platformers don't have stupidly drawn out plots with horribly voice-acted dialogue. 

 

 

Well, except Modern Sonic titles unfortunately. 

 

Whilst the games have lately been attempting to get rid of the ridiculous and pointless plots they still persist in a half-hearted manner. All a game like Sonic, Mario, Rayman or Kirby needs is a very minimalist plot with very little or no dialogue. We don't need the badly-written long scripts, pointless new side-characters every new game or lame new 'monsters of the week' such as Chaos, Iblis or the Deadly Six. The Classic Sonic games got it nailed perfectly. All we need is Sonic fighting Eggman and getting all the Chaos Emeralds. It's simple and effective, sometimes less really is more. The badly-drawn out and convoluted plots the series is notorious for just acts as needless baggage. 

 

Let's scrap these silly plots and focus on the game itself!

I agree that Sonic games with "serious" plots had their problems with the story. But personally, one of my biggest problems with "platformers marketed for kids" is the fact that the story is often nonexistent. And also, does the fact that game is a platformer excuse the lack of story. If you ask me, no. Just take a look at Ratchet and Clank games. They had "real plot" and I had ton of fun with games and I also found stories very enjoyable. Yes in games gameplay is the most important part but story is always a great plus (at least to me). Completely ditching the idea of complex plots isn't the right thing to do. Right thing to do is trying to improve the writing (ps. I have nothing against more lighthearted stories. I really enjoyed Lost Worlds story but there could have been more of that)

Also does Sonic have to abandon stories because of the other platformers do so?

Let's focus on Sonic and ditch the over-abundance of friends

 

Like the plots, Sonic Team has been making moves to cut off the excess fat that's been bloating the series: the over-abundance of friends. Sonic has so many useless friends he could fill an opera house with them! Whilst we are thankfully not forced to play as them any more we are still subjected to them turning up and being obnoxious in our games.

 

 

I mean, just look at this! How many pointless cameos do we need? Let's just stick to a couple of characters please, instead of having an ensemble of wafer-thin interchangeable personalities. How about just sticking to Sonic, Tails and Eggman? Do we really need these pointless characters fluffing up the games?

 

Again, look at other platformers! Do we see a million friends pointlessly filling up Mario, Rayman or Kirby? No, because the games have memorable characters who are independent of each other. Not these kind of cookie-cutter characters as seen in newer Sonic games. 

 

Again, let's get back to the basics! It might be better to just focus the game on Sonic and Eggman, so we can get the dreaded convoluted plot weaving out of the game!

Again, I agree that with characters there has been some problems but due to the fact that I prefer complex plots, I disagree with this (it's probably quite hard to have deep plot if in the story there is only 2-3 characters). And I don't mind the having many characters in the game as long as they have some logical reason to be there (for example: I will gladly see Knuckles making appereance in games but I just can't figure out why he was on Lost World. Doesn't he has something else to do like guarding the Master emerald!)

As for the characters, I mostly enjoy them althoug there are some which I'm either indifferent towards or just annoy me.

And again does the fact that most of the platformers do thing that way mean that Sonic should also do so?

Make the games fast and lose the fear of speed

Sonic Generations was a truly great game, partly due to how fast and exhilarating it was. Whilst the Boost sacrifices a bit of control, it greatly increases the flow and pace of the games. Recent titles like Lost World and Boom have shown an almost fear of speed. Why is SEGA trying to move away from a winning formula?

 

 

Just let us go fast! Why do we need to slow down and plod about in the new games? Sonic doesn't need to be afraid of its own identity, we need the games to stand out from the crowd and not mingle in with all the other generic platformers from a bygone age!

 

Ideally we should focus on the Boost gameplay from Generations and really accommodate the levels for them. Sonic does speed better than any other game on the market, let's be proud of that

Yes I love Generations and the fact of how fast you can go in that. But my problem is that it is so easy to get speed. Speed is an important factor in Sonic games but not the main focus. I prefer the fact that you would need to earn the speed like in the classic games or Adventure games. In those you were able to go very fast (of course not as fast as in the boost games but still) but you needed to do something in order to get that. And still it wasn't so hard to do.

I have heard that one of the most generic criticisms to Lost World was lack of speed. Well, watch this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zH3jNLX8IRo

In the terms of level desing, I think Generations had great desing but maybe the fact that how fast you go little restricts that. Again I personally prefer Adventure style (especially Adventure 1)

In the terms of playable characters, I wish that that formula would return. Segas need to only remember not to remove speed. In Sonic 3&K it was implemented perfectly and Sonic Adventure is my favourite Sonic game because that has done that in the best way in 3D game (yes, there was Amy and Big but honestly, I had so much fun with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles to really care). And having many playable characters also gives so much opportunies in level desing (Speed highway is to me the best excample).

And Sonic Boom. I agree with you but it's a spin off game which main reason was to cash-in on TV-series (like most of the licence games). I don't count that.

Conclusion

 

To conclude, there are many other ways you could improve the series, but I believe these to be the three most important points!

 

Please feel free to discuss your Ultimate Sonic Game and anything further you could add to save the franchise and its reputation!

Well you had some points but I mostly disagree with them (because of the fact that I prefer Adventure-style) but it seems that one of your main points was that "because of other platformers do so". I think that is just the reason not to do so. Otherwise Sonic games become more and more generic

[Diamond Sonic]

Well you had some points but I mostly disagree with them (because of the fact that I prefer Adventure-style) but it seems that one of your main points was that "because of other platformers do so". I think that is just the reason not to do so. Otherwise Sonic games become more and more generic

 

Fair critique. The reason I feel it's good to compare Sonic to other platformers is for inspiration and learning purposes.