Experiment: The vital Sonic elements

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Greetings Sonic Stadium. My name's Roger, perhaps known to you from my Dissected analysis show or the "in minutes" parody series. Whatever.
I don't often interact here on the forum but nevertheless would like to ask for a little assistance here.

 

I'm conducting a little experiment. You see, E3's coming, so it's safe to assume we can expect to hear glimpses of the next big Sonic game soon.
Which will undoubtedly result into a fresh new "This sucks- Don't judge it yet" warzone.
Now, making the occasional video speculating or analyzing Sonic, I figured it's more productive if I can take a look at the possible new material with a more stable perspective then our first gut reaction and look how well the new footage fits with the general Sonic fan mindset.

 

I'm mostly interested in the perspectives from the Classic games (For the "This is a proper representation to what Sonic's supposed to be!" argument), but might as well look at the more spectacle focused Adventure/ Dark era and the "Back to the roots with a twist" Modern games for completions sake.

I'm only focusing on the positive things we want, not what you particularly dislike. Mostly because I want to focus on the Concepts of the games and not necessarily the quality in how they were executed.

Being weirdly optimistic, I have a tendency to think that, theoretically, every possible concept could be a success as long as the developers know what they're doing and in what capacity to use it.
I am worried that a lot of things Sonic fans dislike about the series is because they confuse the bad Execution of an idea for being a bad Idea in general.
I want this experiment to be clean, and by focusing on the positive I hope that the skill level of Sonic Team will be less relevant to your answers. You never know if Sega hired new talent who suddenly CAN pull off the things that they failed at before, right?

 

So, I want you to write down your age, And your most liked and most hated Sonic game.
So I have a brief but effective context. You can mention 2 or 3 favorite/ hated games if you fear one doesn't represent your general taste.
Then your top 5 (not in any particular order)

1) Favorite gameplay elements from the classic games (1991-1997)
2) Favorite gameplay elements from the Adventure/"Dark age" games (1998-2006)
3) And your top 5 favorite general elements of the modern age (2007- 2013)

(Preferably not Boom, being a spin off, unless it's something really important to you.
Tough I tend to mentally put Boom Wii U in the Adventure style and Boom 3DS in the Modern age style.)


And sure, asking this information is probably a little redundant, if I dig deep enough here on the forums I'll probably find a couple topics about "Top 10 best Sonic things!!" competitions... Still, I prefer a somewhat controlled environment, not to mention capture the Sonic fans state of mind Right Now. The Sonic series is very unstable and our opinions are constantly bouncing all over the place. Perhaps Boom changed your world view again, who knows?
Besides, if I understand my fellow Sonic fans correctly, you barely need an excuse to fire off your tastes and opinion in a lenghty manner anyway.


So, thanks for reading, and thanks for any possible answers I get.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Would you need an explanation regarding our favorites and the likes? Would be rather odd to just list elements and leave it at that.

 

I suppose I'll start first and set an example.

 

Age - 23

 

Favorite Sonic game:

Sonic 3&Knuckles

 

Most hated Sonic game:

Sonic the Hedgehog 2006

 

Top 5 favorite gameplay elements from the Classics:

1. The Elemental Shields (Sonic 3 & Knuckles)
   • The Elemental Shields provide great protection from the environmental hazards that were generally the main cause of death. You could stand in fires and lava with the fire shield, breath infinitely underwater with the bubble shield, and survive electrical attacks with the lighting shield as well as deflect enemy projectiles with all three.
2. Tails's flying/swimming (S3&K)
   • Tails's flight/swimming allows greater exploration of levels that wouldn't be as accessible to Sonic due to him being incapable of flight. It was also a life saver in case you accidentally jumped into a potentially bottomless pit and could pull you out of tense situations you couldn't normally get out of as Sonic
3. Knuckles's gliding and climbing (S3&K)
   • The same with Tails above
4. Super/Hyper forms (Sonic 2 - S3&K)
   • This was a neat little upgrade to normal abilities, making the levels so much easier and fun to blast through.
5. Special Stage (S3&K)
   • The special stages here were perhaps the best done so far. There was much better control over the direction you went, and depth of where you were jumping, with the only thing being challenge is your reaction time and navigation of the stage

Top 5 favorite gameplay elements from the Adventure/Dark Age:

1. Shadow's Chaos Spear (Sonic the Hedgehog 2006)
   • This was perhaps one of the best done projectile attacks done in the franchise, though it is telling it was done in a generally unfinished game. The attacks could stun/damage at a distance without interfering with other natural abilities, compared to the mechs in the Adventure stages which were either your only means of attack or were too clunky to do anything else.
2. Sonic's Light Speed Attack (Sonic Adventure 1/2)
   • It was rather fun to circle around and attack all nearby enemies with this high-powered homing attack. 
3. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's Multiplayer
   • Multiplayer hasn't exactly been this franchise's strong point, and even here there is room to improve. But the multitude of characters available in SA2:B's multiplayer allowed greater choice in player preferences, and the expansion of abilities allowed one greater chances of catching up should they fall behind.
4. Silver's Psychokinesis (Sonic the Hedgehog 2006)
   • Although Silver was rather slow in the game, it was fun to catch and throw back projectiles launched from enemy robots in the game. It's also fun to mess around with the environment, chucking objects at nearby enemies or using objects as makeshift floating platforms to get by.
5. Rail Grinding (Sonic Adventure 2)
   • This allowed more flow and speed to the games, and added more paths over certain obstacles in the way. And it was just plain cool zipping around at high speeds on rails.

Top 5 favorite general elements of the Modern Era:

1. Flexible artstyle allowing for the incorporation of visuals from every era into one unified style (Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Generations)
   • Sonic has had multiple different artstyles and has somewhat changed to suit them. The artstyle here in this era allowed for all of them to fit together in the same style, allowing Green Hill Zone and Sky Sanctuary to fit in place with City Escape or Crisis City. This gave Sonic a coherent identity, while at the same time allowing him enough flexibility to make new settings and environments.
2. The Parkour of Lost Worlds
   • Allowed Sonic greater movement over natural obstacles in his path, such as a wall next to a hazard of spikes or a pit. This along with the wall kick and homing attack allows Sonic to be even more maneuverable than he has been in previous 3D titles.
3. Hydroplaning over Water
   • Water tended to be one of the great hazards for Sonic, as he would always sink instead of swim whenever he was underwater. Sonic being able to hydroplane makes water less of an annoyance and more of a terrain he can move around on provided he moves fast enough, and is a great compromise of being limited to platforms or sinking like a rock (often to your death).
4. The Boost
   • One of the most well known features of the modern era is, unfortunately, it's most overpowering one which is not a good thing. The boost allows great speed to be achieved, but along with the rather narrow level design it doesn't allow much room for experimentation and exploration of the often beautifully detailed levels. And there's often a punishment for being too inclined to used the boost, which I suppose is to balance it from being abused, but makes things feel rather haphazard unless you memorize the layout of the level. It a great thrill, but it has very limited versatility beyond simply running through a stage, and I think there should be greater versatility or flexibility in exploring stages given how gorgeous they are.
5. The Wisps
   • This seems like an attempt to make the games much more versatile. Certain wisps make the games fun, but others seem too restrictive if not counter to the fluidity of the games. It's fun to navigate with the Drill and climb walls with the Spike, but not a lot of fun to use the Cube to make specific platforms appear so that you can walk over them in a time limit.

[FriendBot]

Well, since I kind of started the whole Sonic Dissected Dissected stuff and pretty much kickstarted all that drama even then it ended as a good lesson and all that jazz, guess it's fair enough that I should atleast post my thoughts on this. Also, it's great to hear someone else agreeing that there is potential to all the ideas that each Sonic game provided and most were rather poorly executed rather being downright terrible ideas.

 

Well, I'm currently 18 and 3&K is my favorite Sonic game (as is almost everyone else's) though both Adventures and Lost World 3DS are some of my favorites as well and my least favorite is 06 (as it should be).

 

 

So for the top 5 favorite gameplay elements of the classics, well this could be very simple.

 

The perfect mix of speed and platforming in 3 & Knuckles is just amazing.

 

Sonic 1 felt a bit too slow for me and didn't fully provide a whole lot of speed into the mix and Sonic 2, while it's still a great game, seems to overrely a bit too much on speed for the most part but after Oil Ocean, you are told not to go too fast so it's a pretty weird mindset to just change midway through a game. 3&K managed to find this perfect mix of the 2 elements and is pretty much why I consider this game the pinnacle of 2D platformers.

 

Another 3&K thing that made it a great game is how it provided a pretty simple but good story through very simple midgame cutscenes.

 

Those very small moments just make the game feel even more alive, you actually feel like you're going in an adventure and not just playing some guy that's doing the adventure for you.

 

The in-level gimmicks never really overstayed their welcome.

 

Whenever I played the levels in any of the classic games, I never felt like they never bothered me when I was going through the level and they were just only once or twice at most.

 

The spindash and the Super/Hyper forms (You can consider these as 2 seperate things so yeah)

 

Sonic 2 and 3&K are considered great games for a lot of reasons but I'm pretty sure these 2 elements are the reason why people enjoy these games. The spindash is a great mechanic for those who want to reach max speed ASAP and the Super form is just a great treat that feels really rewarding when you complete the Special Stages, kind of sucks how underwhelming earning Super Sonic is nowadays. :/

 

Ah yes the Adventure era, quite the unstable part of the franchise's life cycle but yet it was probably the most memorable as well.

 

The introduction to setpieces

 

What makes games like the Adventures or Heroes so memorable to most people were some of its setpieces. Who could forget running down on the side of a skyscraper in SA1 or running away from the GUN truck in SA2? Setpieces needs to really come back to 3D Sonic levels.

 

The tone for the stories in Sonic games

 

Both Adventure games gave a rather good tone to the series, it was silly yet it took itself seriously when it needed to though some people could argue that SA2 still overdid it a bit but I digress.

 

The introduction to Shadow

 

It might sound weird that a esstential Sonic alien hybrid can be a great addition to the series if he wasn't the 2nd MOST POPULAR Sonic character of all time, first being yours truly. Also he has to be one of the complex characters in the series as well, I can see a lot of ways you can work Shadow into a story. The rising conflict and distrust of humanity about how powerful Shadow is and the growing fear of the fact he could turn against at any given point. Shadow's realtionship between Eggman and etc. Shadow is just a really cool character and would love to see more of him and stuff.

 

The team-based gameplay of Heroes

 

Though some people would prefer to playing as Sonic only, I didn't mind this new gameplay style and it's a pretty good excuse to give most of the current Sonic cast a purpose in the game's story so that's always fun. Though it could use some work but I found the game's level design to be some of the best in the series.

 

The Boost Mode from Advance 2 and 3

 

Another really good mechanic that Sonic games should use more often is the Boost Mode. It works in a rather similar way than the Spindash and the Boost. The faster you run, the quicker you reach into your max speed and collecting more rings also helps that as well. Though I would the work the level design to encourage using the Boost Mode more often since neither Advance 2 or 3 really do that so it's pretty conflicting for me as a player.

 

And finally the Modern Era, The latest chapter in the series, most of the time it feels like the series is facing a serious hangover after the shit they've been through the Adventure Era.

 

The Parkour

 

This gameplay element is another mechanic I feel that can be a great addition to the series as well. It can provide some really exciting levels and it can also provide that great sense of flow that was provided in the classic games and it just looks cool to do. It's part of the reason why I think the 3DS version is better than the Wii U version since it puts a bigger emphasis on the Parkour thought some would argue a bit too much emphasis but that's just my thoughts.

 

The Wisps

 

Though I wasn't too fond of them in Colors Wii and were esstenially useless in Lost World U. The handheld versions of both games used them in the best way, it focused more on how powerful these Color Powers are rather than using them to solve to some dumb puzzle. Seriously, seeing them basically destroy bosses is such an amazing feeling.

 

The improvement of the Boost

 

While I'm not too fond of the Boost, I can agree that improving the gameplay is a great idea. I feel that Sonic Team should focus on refining their gameplay mechanics until they can find the "right" way to do the gameplay justice.

 

Hub worlds

 

While SA1 introduced them, Unleashed HD is probably the better way to do them but implementing some of the better ideas of SA1's hubs with Unleashed's, it'll be perfect TBH.

 

And finally, the detail of the levels themselves.

 

While the Boost games were too fast for you to actually enjoy how incredible some of the levels actually look but when you look at how amazing some of the levels look, it can take your breath away sometimes. I mean despite being on the Wii, Colors has to be one of the most vibrant looking games in the series, just look at how amazing Starlight Carnival looks.

 

I hope this was good enough and again, real sorry for causing all that drama though.

[Drawloverlala]

ok! and hi!

 

i am 19 running to 20  at this may 5th

my favourite sonic games

1) Sonic 3 and Knuckles 2) Sonic Generations 3) Sonic Unleashed for PS3

 

my least ones.. 1) Sonic Free Riders  and 2) Sonic Boom: shattered christal

 

top 5 :

1) Sonic 3 and Knuckles

2) Sonic Unleashed

3) Sonic generations

4) Sonic Riders 1

5) Tails' Adventures

 

 

1) Favorite gameplay elements from the classic games (1991-1997):

 

Spindash XD it was very useful and i loved when in Sonic 2 at chermical plant to go even more faster

 

Sonic 3 & K:  double jump it was useful too.. i didn't know  it until a time ago that i could not be hurted while doing it...

 

Elemental Shields: my favourite one is the thunder one.. to get many rings and specially at ice cap zone it helped me so much..

 

Run over the water! that thing its was just so cool

 

i also liked 2 player gameplay when Sonic and Tails are in the screen..

my brother used to help me a lot  as Tails at special stages from Sonic 2 and when i wanted to skip some fights at sky sanctuary at Sonic and Knuckles XD

i like 2D gameplay that its not slippery .. the 3d gameplay  at Sonic 3d blast by example it was slippery and it was kinda difficult to move and hit at the enemy at the right place.. i always missed them... X(

 

2) Favorite gameplay elements from the Adventure/"Dark age" games (1998-2006)

 

dark age? hehe just because 2006? XD well...

i can't say much.. i still can't use to play Sonic adventure 2..and i sometimes play Shadow the hedgehog  its too slippery and i always fall to the cliffs...but

i liked the Homing attack..

 

and the Rails

3) And your top 5 favorite general elements of the modern age (2007- 2013)

 

1- the Boost! if Sonic means something is speed! going fast !

2- Rainbow Rings. to make those wonderful tricks!

3- selective homing attack.. now i can be sure if i will hit my enemy

4- EDITED: high quality long zones : thinking it better... i like the zones are long.. unlike Sonic Generations.. Sonic Unleashed and Colors have very long zones.. and very high quality.. i like the realistic design to them like cities and facilities..  and just long zones to run for more time

5- Wisps? well.. not of my favourite things... to me they are replacing other characters' habitities.. if Sonic needs to get to a place he can't reach.. he now needs a certain wisp... not Tails.. but it result the Wisps are useful anyway and its nice to use them..

i mean "sounds" and it "feels" nice. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Drawloverlala

[Diogenes]

Age: 27

Most Liked Game: S3&K, no contest. It's the most refined and expansive of the Genesis games.

Most Hated Game: Now that's a tough choice. '06? RoL (if you count Boom in with the rest of the series)? ShtH? ...yeah those I guess.

-Favorite Gameplay Elements from the Classic Era

Physics-Based Gameplay: From the character's acceleration and momentum, to the slope physics, to the various level gimmicks, the series' use of simplified, intuitive physics created a unique kind of gameplay that was easy for beginners to grasp while still having depth for dedicated players to explore.

Wall/Ceiling Running: The ability to run a full 360-degree loop allows Sonic's speed and the game's physics to be applied to vertically-oriented gameplay as well as horizontally. This helps provide a more direct way to tie speed into platforming, by converting horizontal speed into vertical speed to reach higher platforms. It also helps the series make better use of space, offering new ways to build paths vertically and allowing walls and ceilings to be used to the player's advantage rather than just as obstacles.

Spin Dash: The spin dash solved the problem that Sonic 1 had of being overly punishing if the player failed a speed-based obstacle. Rather than requiring the player to backtrack further to build up speed, they were now able to charge up a quick burst to get them past the obstacle and once again advancing through the level. Also, the need to come to a stop to charge it, and the fact that it only provided an initial push rather than constant acceleration, kept it from being the first solution to every problem, overriding the physics gameplay.

Multiple Playable Characters: S3&K greatly expanded the game's replay value by allowing you to play as 3 different characters, all sharing the series' core gameplay, but with a few different abilities, allowing them access to different areas and giving them different solutions to some obstacles.

Super Sonic: The ultimate reward for expert players is the ability to push the engine to its limits. With near-invulnerability and incredible speed and acceleration, the game becomes a playground.

-Favorite Gameplay Elements from the Adventure Era

The Third Dimension: I think it goes without saying how revolutionary a third dimension can be to a series. But Sonic in particular I think can benefit greatly from it because he can take advantage of all 3 dimensions from all sorts of angles, rather than being largely tethered to the ground like most platformers.

Homing Attack: With an added dimension comes added complexity, but the homing attack is a simple solution allowing players to easily attack targets even at high speeds.

Grinding: Grinding, when not in excess, is a good way to vary up Sonic's movements and matches well with slope physics.

Hub Worlds: Hub worlds offer the player an opportunity to slow down a bit, explore for extras, and expand on the story and setting, while (ideally) having minimal impact on players who simply want to head to the next level.

...I can't actually think of a fifth.

-Favorite Gameplay Elements from the Modern Era

Parkour: Less the implementation in Lost World, more the concept; parkour is a perfect match for a series about traversing complicated terrain quickly and stylishly.

Wisps: While the quality has varied from wisp to wisp, I like the idea of powerups that allow for new routes and shortcuts when used well.

Werehog Platforming: The werehog gets a lot of shit, and some of it is well deserved, but I enjoyed the swinging and climbing as a new way to navigate the levels.

Terrain Effects: Why did it take until Unleashed for the series to introduce speed-sapping mud and slippery ice? Well, I suppose it had done quicksand and oil before, which have similar effects...but anyway, different terrain is a natural addition for a game where your movement along the ground is so important.

And again I'm lacking a fifth.

[Kuzu]

Age: 21

 

Favorite Game(s): Sonic 3(& Knuckles)[surprise surprise :V], Sonic Rush, and Sonic Unleashed.

Least Favorite Game: I feel like 06 is a cop out answer, but I can't really think of another game that I feel is worse than it. Although if I had to add more, Secret Rings, and Sonic 4.

 

Favorite Elements from the Classic Era:

 

- The massive size and scale of the levels. They helped give the game some longevity by virtue of having so much to explore and discover within each individual level. It encouraged exploration, but didn't dominate the gameplay.

 

- Additional Playable Characters. Each character is optional and offered their own spin on the standard formula, and in the case of Knuckles, had their own stage layout to accommodate for their abilities.

 

- Momentum-Based gameplay. Really makes it feel like you have to earn your speed and flow, and therefore more satisfying to use.

 

- The level transitions. It makes the game feel more real and that you're actually playing an adventure. Moving from locale to locale, it also helps enhance the plot by not relying on cutscenes as much. 

 

- The special stages. Nice little bonus games I feel need to return, maybe for a better reward than just Super/Hyper Sonic though.

 

 

Favorite Elements from the Dreamcast Era:

 

- The attempt at bringing Sonic to a 3D plane by expanding on what its predecessors did. Hub worlds, finding levels, etc etc.

 

- The larger emphasis on the characters within the plot. It led to some pretty nice character development and made the cast more dynamic as a result.

 

- Plot points that span multiple games and connect to each other. It helps the games feel less disconnected.

 

- The attempt to differentiate the characters with additional moves and abilities.

 

-.....I got nothing.

 

 

Favorite Elements from the Modern Era:

 

- The sense of speed that really makes you feel like you're actually Sonic himself in the stages.

 

- Numerous set pieces that keep your attention.

 

- The simplified, but still engaging plots(This one mostly applies to Unleashed really) 

 

- The artstyle that helps capture the whimsical yet adventurous essence of the franchise.

 

- Giving the homing attack a targeting feature. 

[Ripe]

Age: 20

Favourite game: Sonic Adventure

I don't hate any games which I have played because I haven't played any of the games which are considered bad (yet). But my least favourite game so far is probably Sonic 4 Episode 2

1) Favorite gameplay elements from the classic games (1991-1997)

1. Rolling

-It's so fun to just roll into a ball and go fast

2. Unique characters

-In Sonic 3&K all three character had something to offer while retaining speed. My favourite of the three has to be Tails

3. Spin dash (and Super peel out)

-Move that fixed the biggest problem that I had with the original

4. Elemental shield

-All of them were awesome

5. Super form

-This isn't higher because it's so hard to get. But all super and hyper (I would have put Super Emeralds to this list also) were amazing. While Super Sonic is playable in games I seriously think that Super Tails and Super Knuckles needs to return (well, that kinda happened in remastered IOS versions)

2) Favorite gameplay elements from the Adventure/"Dark age" games (1998-2006)

1. Story and gameplay format:

-Unique characters had their own stories. To me, best excample is SA1. All six characters were unique (although I would had remowed two). But levels were shared, which I didn't mind because those levels had something unique to every character. In SA2 every character had their own levels but with gameplaystyles there were more problems. And Sonic Heroes, well you know...

2. Full 3D

-I just prefer full 3D instead of this current 3D/2D

3. Homing attack

-Although jump and Spin dash are stil good ways to destroy enemies, Homing attack keeps the pace going

4. Light speed dash

-I just like this move in Adventure 2 and Heroes

5. Team format in Heroes.

-This was really interesting idea and if you ask me, it was executed very well (not perfectly). It gave strengts of three characters simultaneously. I personally thin that Sonic 4 Ep 2 would have been much better if it's teamwork would have worked like in the Heroes

3) And your top 5 favorite general elements of the modern age (2007- 2013)

This is quite hard because I have played only 2 modern age games

1. Equipable upgrades

- In Generations it was really good to have option to choose which upgrades you had. It gave more options and new ways to play stages.

2. Missions

-It was a neat way to give more gameplay with these challenges in Generations (besides of those like "get S-rank")

3. Boost

-While I prefer Adventure style I can't deny how fun using the boost is.

4. Wisp

-With this, I speak more about the concept, because only instance were I have been able to use them were in Generations (in which level itself drove me insane) and Runners (which I don't really count). But idea itself is really interesting

I can't think fifth

[Wittymations]

Age- 23

 

Favorite games - Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Sonic CD

 

Hated Games - Sonic Colors, Shadow the Hedgehog

 

Classic Gameplay Elements

- Ball-like physics gameplay

Makes sense for this character. He's meant to roll up in a ball and attack using his body. This is something the modern games severally lack.

- Shields

They cool. Cooler with elemental themes attached. Most effective around 3

- Tails' flight, Knuckles' dig/glide

Cool little extensions to the character to make them feel somewhat unique, while fun. Don't think they should have gotten the spindash to boot.

- Spindash

Rev. Rev. Rev. Go. Had that same feeling of the ball-based attack style. I liked it.

- Special stages

Or, I like the concept of the "work for a reward", I actually disliked all the special stages (Sonic 3 especially) because I sucked at them. lol

 

 

Adventure Gameplay Element

- 3D Gameplay

More specifically, 3D style in the Adventure speed stages. It actually felt like it was trying to be "Classic style" in 3D. It was simple, effective and felt natural. Albeit it was buggy, but with today, we should be able to iron it out and make it work.

- Hub World

Maybe I'm a sucker for hubs and open worlds, but I enjoyed wandering around Station Square and Mystic Ruins. I loved seeing the stages connect to the world. Granted, I think it should take a Banjo-Kazooie approach and give us some enemies and stuff to fight, maybe a few obstacles to play around on, as well, but overall, it was fun. Also, I'd LOVE to see Angel Island as a hub. That'd be great.

- Multiple Characters

While not started in the Adventure, I felt like the Adventures made this the most unique. In Sonic 3, I never really felt like Knuckles when playing him. I felt like red Sonic. Sure, he could do things Sonic couldn't and had his own path, but it still just felt like red Sonic. I think this has to do a lot with story than gameplay (although Knuckles in Adventure couldn't spindash, which is a bonus for me), but still, Adventure 1 and 2 made me care more about characters and want to play them.

- Finding Permanent Power Ups

This hasn't really gone away, but I really enjoyed the power ups here by finding them. Light-speed shoes for the light-speed dash. It was fun making them get all dressed up, like Knuckles with friggging metal claws. It did cause clipping, but then they didn't need to dress up to clip, back then. These still exist by purchasing them, I think. And they don't dress up the character Eh. Preferred finding.

- Playable Eggman in SA2.

Playable Eggman. Granted, a good amount disliked mech shooting, but I loved being the king. I really want him to have another time where he can be played in another main series title. Best thing about him, he's a mechanical genius so his playstyles can be damn near limitless.

 

Modern General Elements

- Most voice acting

- Better graphics (Lost World and Boom excluded)

- Smoother animation

 

That's all I got for Modern, really.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

 

Would you need an explanation regarding our favorites and the likes? Would be rather odd to just list elements and leave it at that.

 

<...>

1. Rail Grinding (Sonic Adventure 2)
   • This allowed Tails more offensive abilities than just flight and jumping, especially in 3D where he lacked the homing attack. Enemies coming at Tails could be chopped up by him spinning as he moved around

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

Also, did you change your 5th adventure point there, your description doesn't seem to be connected to the title.

Are you referring to Tails's robot suit? Because I don't remember him rail grinding in adventuer 2, let alone using it as a weapon.

 

Uh...yeah, I actually changed it and somehow forgot to change the description in the process. I fixed it now.

[Rusty Spy]

Age - 21

 

Favorite Sonic Game - Sonic 3 & Knuckles

 

Most Hated Sonic Game - Rise of Lyric

 

Favorite Gameplay Elements from the Classic Era

 

Pinball Physics

• To me it's what defines Sonic. It's what made Sonic so dynamic compared to every other platformer of it's time and made the gameplay fluid and kinetic in a way that few other platformers have been able to match.

 

Spindash

• While I could argue that the spindash didn't add that much to the overall gameplay outside of being a shortcut to gaining speed, what makes it great is just how satisfying it is to use. However on major advantage it does have is it allows the game to keep a consistent flow, letting players recover from a sudden stop without trivializing the level design.

 

Elemental Shields

• What's great about them is what makes Mario's powerups so great; giving the players new powers that enhance their skill set and can be utilized in unique and varied situations.

 

Unique Character Abilities

• What I like about being to play as Tails and Knuckles in the classic games is not so much having a different character to play as, but having a unique set of abilities that can change the way you play the game. Since they all stem from the same basic controls, it adds that much more variety to the gameplay, made even better by giving Tails and Knuckles unique paths that only they can traverse.

 

Super Forms

• With a series that prides itself on speed, Super Sonic is the ultimate thrill of speed for mastering the games challenges.

 

 

Favorite Gameplay Elements from the Adventure/Dark Era

 

3D

• Mostly a personal preference, not so much one to do with Sonic, but I generally prefer 3D games, and believe the third dimension gives the games a much stronger element of freedom that compliments the series' gameplay.

   

Hub Worlds

• I always loved hub worlds in games, and believe they did a good job adding greater context to the setting in Sonic's games.

 

Grinding

• A natural evolution of Sonic's controls, the ability to grind perfectly fits the free form movement that was such a staple of the classic games, and in SA2 it was always so satisfying to do.

 

Homing Attack

• While more of a necessity for the added third dimension, I still find it's conception to at least fit the fluid and kinetic gameplay, and still feels fun to use.

 

Team Based Gameplay

• With how diverse Sonic's cast has become, I really like the idea of having control of multiple characters abilities at once.

 

Favorite General Elements of the Modern Era

 

Parkour

• Despite it's limited execution in Lost World, I believe, in my heart of hearts, that parkour perfectly compliments Sonic's entire concept and something that needs to become a staple of the series.

 

Hydroplaning

• While technically something that has been possible in the classic games, the way it's been implemented in Unleashed made for one of the best level set pieces in the series.

 

Gameland (Sonic Colors)

• Very fun bonus levels that double as a method to collect Chaos Emeralds while extending game length was on of Color's better ideas.

 

Homing Attack Reticle

• A simple feature that fixes a very common problem with the homing attack since it's inception.

 

Artstyle

• Since Unleashed, the game's artstyle has become as vibrant and whimsical as the classics while keeping the sense of realism that the pre-Unleashed games tried to capture.

[Ripe]

The Peel out move is very popular, but I'm always interested in how/if you chose whether to use the peel out or the spindash in Sonic Cd. Is there any diffrence between them or do you just like the fact you have an option which animation plays?

In the remaster, moves behave exactly the same (which why I put that inside brackets). But in the original Peel out worked like Spin dash in Sonic 2 but Spin dash was slower to use. It gave great speed but you need to fully charge it. If you didn't, Sonic acted like he never did the dash and just stand still.

But when talking about remaster honestly, I don't really know but I find myself using Peel out more. Maybe it just the looks.

[FriendBot]

Don't worry about the drama, I like being challenged and being called back. If you want knowledge, a good slap back to planet earth is a vital ingriedient.

I'm surprised how many younger people rank Sonic 3 and Knuckles high. That game was out before you were born.

It says a lot about it's quality if even if you weren't "There" during it's golden age and still regard it so highly.

Are you generally interested in retro gaming or is Sonic 3 and Knuckles just That good?

Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, this is a genuine curiousity. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is also my favorite of the classics. But then again, I was gaming when it was freshly released.

Heh, I like that description of modern Sonic being a hangover after 06 partied too hard.

 

Yeah, I knew it was a good lesson for everyone especially you and Luke but you know, I still can't help but feel a bit guilty about it. So yeah

 

Given that Sonic is pretty much the only gaming franchise I play nowadays, it is because of how good 3&K is. Like I really can't deny how great that game is. I mean it is perfect in every sense of the word.

 

It makes sense to consider this latest era to be the hangover phase due to how abusive the Dreamcast era was, it just makes sense. XD

[Drawloverlala]

I'm surprised how many younger people rank Sonic 3 and Knuckles high. That game was out before you were born.

It says a lot about it's quality if even if you weren't "There" during it's golden age and still regard it so highly.

Are you generally interested in retro gaming or is Sonic 3 and Knuckles just That good?

Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, this is a genuine curiousity. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is also my favorite of the classics. But then again, I was gaming when it was freshly released.

 

 

 

well at least for me.. since a child i used to play Sonic 1 or 2 or 3 at pc  wih a genesis emulator that my parents had..

specially my dad was the one who liked PC games.. (i still remember how he used to play Doom.. i was so scared of it at that time )

 

but then.. i only could pass through the first and the second zones... nothing else..

 

 

only since i saw a Sonic Generations gameplay at youtube i wanted to play again those Sonic classic games.. and i got entirely introduced to the franchise..

 

i would say both things.. i like Retro gaming too and Sonic 3 and Knuckles was a nice game and still catching the fan's attention

besides i used to be a fan of MegamanX , before i started to like more about Sonic.... so that 2D gaming with sprites was very nice to me

[DonWaffleleven]

This is gonna be a tough one as I haven't really played EVERY game. I have played a lot though and this is me:

 

Age: 18

 

Most Liked game: Sonic Adventure 1

Most Hated game: Sonic Lost World, maybe even Colours, just the duology of derriere. I'll also say Rise of Lyric because even though it's not part of the main series, it's extravagant once in a lifetime failure seems to have decided Sonic's direction into mobile territory for the near future, so I'm going to say all 3.

1) Favorite gameplay elements from the classic games (1991-1997)

Spindash, shields, character special abilities, rolling-based set pieces and the bonus games that aren't special stages but provide some cool stuff.

2) Favorite gameplay elements from the Adventure/"Dark age" games (1998-2006)

Hub worlds, large explorative levels, character upgrades (this one is a big one for me), 3 star replay value system and

3) And your top 5 favorite general elements of the modern age The Boost Duology (2007- 2013 2008-2011)

Uh... Unlockables, experience points, hard-level DLC and... a really minor one but when you walk into an enemy, it doesn't hurt you. It only hurts you when the enemy physically strikes you. And uh... The PC version of Generations runs at 60 fps without having to resort to a Mario artstyle?

[Diogenes]

Can you describe how the parkour could have been better implented?

Assasin's Creed style, Mario 64 style, what?

Well, it's got to be more fluid, and ideally momentum-preserving when possible. Being able to jump into a wall to start running on it is good, but it should be physics-based and controllable, more like when you got onto a wall in the Adventures, not the stiff, predetermined arc Lost World uses.

Smoothing out other things that aren't strictly parkour would help too. Like the homing attack, I've been saying for years it should bounce you forward on hit rather than straight up. That way it keeps you moving more fluidly; it makes a homing attack chain closer to a series of smooth arcs rather than the sharp stop-and-go that it's usually been. Springs, too, could probably benefit from a variant that actually bounces you rather than shooting you in a fixed direction. And dash pads like in SM3DW, that boost you in the direction you're facing rather than where it's facing.

And while it doesn't really mesh with keeping your momentum, I like the...actually do these even have a proper name? The sticky points, the little marked nubs that would be too small for the player to reliably land on unassisted, so the game clamps the player to them if they get close enough. I know Sly Cooper has them...anyway, those things. Things like that can give the player a bit of a breather, and it's one way for the designers to nail down what state the player is in at the time, after all the potential variation of the physics-based stuff.

Also, while they're not directly comparable due to the differences in character abilities and game format, I've always felt that open-world Spiderman games have a similar sense of superhuman freedom to what I'd like to see out of 3D Sonic.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Well, it's got to be more fluid, and ideally momentum-preserving when possible. Being able to jump into a wall to start running on it is good, but it should be physics-based and controllable, more like when you got onto a wall in the Adventures, not the stiff, predetermined arc Lost World uses.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Age: 21

 

Favorite Sonic Game(s): Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and Sonic Generations

 

Least Favorite Sonic Game(s): Sonic Boom: RoL, Sonic the Hedgehog(2006), and Shadow the Hedgehog

 

Favorite Elements from the Classic Era

 

Spin Dash: I enjoy the short boosts of speed this ability provides without being totally game breaking like the boost from the modern era.

 

Momentum-based Physics: I think it's pretty obvious why this is a necessity.

 

Super Sonic: It's the ultimate reward for people willing to invest the time to attain all 7 Chaos Emeralds. The enhanced speed and enhanced jump height, as well as the invincibility, are fun to mess around with. I also like this concept because of it's tie to Super Saiyajin from Dragon Ball Z.

 

Multiple Playable characters that play like Sonic, but vary slightly: I like this because it at least provides some variety, without detracting from the overall speed of the game. Beyond that, this franchise has a plethora of interesting characters.

 

Favorite Elements from the post Classic Era

 

Homing Attack: I like this element because it works perfectly with the momentum based physics. It keeps things moving. Plus, it helps defeat enemies in a 3D environment.

 

3D: 3D essentially eliminates the problem of running into things you can't see. 

 

Hub Worlds: Hub worlds are generally immersive, and they're great for world building.

 

Parkour: This enhances the level design greatly by allowing Sonic to run on across and up walls. Furthermore, it just makes Sonic look cool.

[-blank-]

Age: 24

 

Favorite Sonic Game: Sonic Unleashed HD

 

Least Favorite Sonic Game: Sonic 4: Episode 1

 

Favorite Classic Elements:

 

Momentum-based physics: In the classic games, levels were designed with slopes and loops to compliment your character's ability to roll into a ball. They were intuitive, simple to learn and aided the flow of the gameplay.

 

Elemental Shields: Why did it take until Generations for these to come back? Not only did they provide protection from certain elemental obstacles, but they gave Sonic himself some snazzy new skills as well.

 

Multiple Paths: One of the things I loved about the classics is that levels had multiple routes. Many of these varied divergences even had little secrets to find and ultimately added a sense of replay value to the games.

 

Spin Dash: The Spin Dash allowed for you to get based obstacles without having to backtrack and simply roll, thereby keeping much of the flow intact.

 

Unique Abilities for the Characters: From Tails' flight to Knuckles gliding, the different skills for the characters added variety to the gameplay, and all without making them drastically different from one another

 

Favorite Adventure/Dark Age Elements:

 

The Hub Worlds: The hub worlds gave players the opportunity to slow down and immerse themselves in the game's world. They were also great to explore and find secrets in.

 

Story-context levels: One of my favorite things about the Adventure games is that the levels were contextually fitting for the story - you went through Emerald Coast because that's where Tails' crashed his plane. City Escape happened right after the beginning cutscene when Sonic escaped from the helicopter as it flew over the city. Really added to the flow of the story I felt.

 

Rail Grinding: Aside from just being plain fun, it added flow to the levels and worked well with Sonic's other abilities.

 

Character Personalities: While I believe that a few characteristics showed up in the classic games (E.I Sonic's impatience) the more story-focused games of this era helped to flesh out the Sonic characters a lot more, making them more interesting as well, characters.

 

Homing Attack: When not used in excess *cough*Sonic4Bubbleschains*cough* I find that the Homing Attack is a very fun ability and a nice way to get through certain obstacles.

 

Favorite Modern Elements: 

 

Parkour: Though sadly not implemented as well as it could have been, the concept was excellent and one that I feel really fits Sonic character. A more fast-paced, fluid version is something I would love to see revisited.

 

The Art Style: Particularly in Unleashed and Generations. Unleashed gave us a world that, while realistic, was not so much so that it clashed with this being a series about a cartoon hedgehog. As well, both the games I mentioned capture a whimsical feel and in Generations, none of the levels stick out like a sore thumb; Crisis City still manages to feel like it's in the same game as Green Hill Zone.

 

The Boost: Namely, the sense of speed the boost gives you. It's so satisfying to burst through a level at a high velocity

 

Werehog Gameplay: I don't care what anyone says, I found the Werehog to be very enjoyable and to have what I find to be some of the smoothest platform-based gameplay in the series.

 

The Writing of the Storybook games: Especially in regards to Sonic's characterization - Black Knight in particular nailed his character. Both games also had a balance between light and dark elements and fantastic villains.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Interesting when it comes to the Adventures and the Classics that people include the non-gameplay elements. I thought he was being specific on gameplay, otherwise I would have changed my listings and went with everyone else.

[Moppsy]

Age: 24

 

Favorite Sonic Games: Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Generations

 

Least Favorite Sonic Games: Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic '06

 

Favorite Classic Elements:

 

1. Momentum based platforming.

One of the things that I loved a lot about the classic games was that there was a momentum to Sonic's movements and the speed and heights one could reach by simply rolling into a ball and travling down a slope

 

2. Inclusion of other playable characters and how they handled.

I loved the extra characters that have been added in since Sonic 2 and honestly there isn't a single character I really dislike.  I even like Shadow somewhat despite being an archetype I normally can't stand in other games.  I also enjoyed the way they were the same yet different when compared to Sonic in S&K3 and in future games like the Advance series.

 

3. The atmosphere. 

The general setting of the classic era did an excellent job in blending our world with a surreal cartoony one that felt fun.  It wasn't too serious with itself having funky looking plants, funny looking animals, and a wise cracking protagonist (At least from the old cartoons at this time).  However, it also brought a sense of urgency with the plot of what Eggman was doing and gave us an legit reason to stop him.

 

Favorite Adventure/Dark Age Elements:

 

1. The Advance 2 boost.

The boost is a controversial subject and ever since its inception it has divided fans and opened the flood gates into what Sonic could do. I honestly believe it was best implemented in the game it started in.  Rather than be mapped to single button and have a boost meter like in Sonic Rush and onwards, you entered a boost state when you reached a certain speed threshold and maintained it until you were stopped.  The amount of rings you picked up determined how much quicker you could enter into boost mode and gave rings more importance other than extra lives and surviving a hit.  It felt like you had to earn that speed instead of having it right up front with a boost gauge and a dedicated button. Plus, it was just SO satisfying hearing the "whoosh" and be flung forward at great speed with an after image trailing you. 

 

2. 3D Sonic.

Another controversial landmark in the series and one with a huge amount of potential realized and undiscovered.  Despite having to ditch some of the classic mechanics that people have enjoyed in the 2D games, 3D sonic has been a great thing for the franchise and really gives me a sense of what speed is when you introduce a Z axis.

 

Favorite Modern Elements:

 

1. Unleashed's sense of speed.

Okay, I haven't played the game myself for design reasons, but I will praise the daytime section and how fast it let Sonic go.  To me, this is Sonic's speed as advertised and I can only hope future games capitalize on the thrill of this kind of speed.

 

2. Lost Worlds aesthetic design.

Deadly Six aside, I love the route Sonic Team took in making the main characters and the atmosphere in general.  It's almost a homage to the cartoon wacky world of the classic games in a 3D HD world and I'm happy Sega plans on sticking with this.  Can't wait to see my favorite character, Cream, in this design.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

 

2. Lost Worlds aesthetic design.

Deadly Six aside, I love the route Sonic Team took in making the main characters and the atmosphere in general.  It's almost a homage to the cartoon wacky world of the classic games in a 3D HD world and I'm happy Sega plans on sticking with this.  Can't wait to see my favorite character, Cream, in this design.

 

You like the stage atmosphere huh? Okay.

Huh, Cream. Ugh, makes me wonder how her personality would be interprented by Pontac and Graff.

She's so japanese.

They probably go for the "Turn Cream into a violent bad ass" route that most Non-Japanese do.

Or at least Talks bad-ass because I haven't seen Pontac and Graff making a character Act bad-ass.

 

 

Interesting when it comes to the Adventures and the Classics that people include the non-gameplay elements. I thought he was being specific on gameplay, otherwise I would have changed my listings and went with everyone else.

 

Yeah, fascinating isn't it?

Just proves "It's only about gameplay!" is a faulty argument. Clearly music and atmosphere and up there with the physics and character skills in importance.

[Moppsy]

You like the stage atmosphere huh? Okay.

Huh, Cream. Ugh, makes me wonder how her personality would be interprented by Pontac and Graff.

She's so japanese.

They probably go for the "Turn Cream into a violent bad ass" route that most Non-Japanese do.

Or at least Talks bad-ass because I haven't seen Pontac and Graff making a character Act bad-ass.

 

 

Personally, I like the way Flynn and the Archie series are making her an aspiring hero rather than someone who just sits in the back and cheers people on. 

 

And yes, atmosphere can sometimes make or break a game for me.  The design of Lost Worlds hits me as a nice fun and cartoon-like style that for me "fits" with the sonic series.

[Mr. Taxi]

So.

I'm 21 years old. My favourite Sonic game is Sonic CD (Japanese soundtrack even more so) and the Sonic game I hate the most is Sonic Rush.

I'd argue what I like the most about the gameplay in the classic games is how speed and platforming are not balanced as people like to put it. Instead, they're one and the same. The fact that there is only one action button is what made all this possible. So first, the gameplay's very foundation. Second, that which brings this foundation to life: the level design. I wouldn't have created so many threads on these message boards if I didn't love it so much. It's all about bending your desires, you know? When Egoraptor launched that Megaman X Sequelitis video, everyone started talking about how great it is when a level teaches you how to play. It's a level design philosophy that ultimately led us to Shovel Knight, a brilliant game, but that is all about teaching. I prefer to approach Sonic's level design from the behaviour/desire perspective, as in you wanting something and doing all you can and know in order to get it even if the level doesn't teach you anything. The progression is not so much a learning curve as it is a spiral of tension in your desires.

Which leads me to the third aspect: the level progressions. They have a sense of adventure that few games could match. You know, telling a story only through gameplay and setting? Fucking masterpieces. Sonic 3& Knuckles is probably the most accomplished game ever in this regard.

Fourth point, the numbers. What I mean is that what the game counts and how is important - going faster is more dangerous, but you might gain 50000 points for it and, with that, gain a life. It's a risk and reward factor that challenges you without really doing much. And it's a great feeling, to surpass the challenges you set up for yourself (and that have practical usage, such as getting 50 rings and finishing the stage in less than one minute. This is especially prevalent in Sonic 1 for the Master System).

Fifth, I just... I don't know. I just like how it plays, you know? The motion play pleases me by itself. It's all so smooth and tight at the same time.

Onto the Adventure era, I like how they expanded the game's "area" beyond the stages. So like you can use rings to buy stuff and there's hub worlds and Chao you can take care of -- playing through the stages gets an extra layer of motivation and desire. It's numbers all over again, but with a twist. I also like Sonic Advance 2's take on the boost (but, and I absolutely HAVE to say this, I despise everything else about that game).

Onto the modern era... I like the music. Colours' music was great.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

 I also like Sonic Advance 2's take on the boost (but, and I absolutely HAVE to say this, I despise everything else about that game).

 

So I take it Sonic advance 2 fails on the numbers game and the "level design to appease your desires" I take it?

I suppose I need to look at your other posts to find out the details then. Probably the "Find all items to unlock the bonus stage" thing.