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ProJared reviews Sonic Adventure 2


Rad Dudesman

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You know, having a teleporter is great if you already have the destination spot rigged.

 

But unless you think that the only place that Eggman would ever want to go in space is the ARK, which we've seen is false in games before and after, then you're going to need an alternate mode of transportation to get into space for other plans.

 

Unless we think that he just teleports himself in space and builds the machines and ships there in a space suit? Seems like a Gravity waiting to happen to me.

 

.... And in fact, how would he have put a teleporter on the ARK in the first place without some other means to get there than a space ship of some sort?

 

I mean, c'mon guys. Having multiple modes of transportation is not a plot hole or plot convenience.

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In Sonic Adventure 2, yes. His primary reason for having the teleporter is to get to the Ark quick and easy and even Rouge uses the damn thing later on. So once again, why does he need a rocket in the context of Sonic Adventure 2 to get to a place he already had a means of getting to?

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I think to sum up my feelings on SA2's story after this whole recollection..

 

I love it, but it's bad.

 

HOWEVER.

 

I think the reason I liked it so much as a kid (and why I continued to like it as I grew up) is because I filled in the blanks. There were cool things that happened in SA2, but without context, some of it was pretty dumb. Especially to non-fans. But to me? I just let theories sink in on why certain characters did certain things or why certain things were the way they were, and I let my imagination come into play. With that, I (and I'm sure a lot of others) sort of came to our own conclusions on why things happened the way they did in SA2, and with that, our perception on the game's story was much better.

 

But now that we've grown up, it's kind of obvious: the story issss... a weird one. Now don't get me wrong, I think it has some neat ideas, and the build-up / general idea of the plot is great! But it's obviously clumped together in haphazard ways that, as adults, we don't really see the point pretending there's hidden links between kinda sloppily put together story elements.

 

That said, if SA2 was rewritten to give the elaboration a lot of us fans have come up with (the whole "Shadow is connected to Gerald seeing the Hidden Palace mural" thing, "GUN went after Sonic to cover-up Shadow's existence", etc), included details that were left out of the game (Rouge's documents about Project Shadow), or generally had revised/improved script writing for the sake of dropping some of the cheese factor, we'd have a better put together story.

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Maybe Eggman had the space shuttle as a back-up in case his teleporter decided to shit itself? I mean, it is kind of weird that it's not an Eggman themed ship, but the space shuttle being there isn't a big deal.

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As Mathew Matteli (did I spell his last name right?) said in the SGB playthrough, it's good to have a backup way to your destination.

 

Why tho? Was the teleporter ever in danger of being destroyed? None of it is explained lol. The rocket's only purpose in the story is to get the heroes to space and that's really it.

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Ignoring the fact that humans in general are actually demonstrably shit when it comes to seeing differences between individuals in an animal species or even different species altogether, the problem with this is that we're accepting that our third-person perspective of media is an accurate representation of how characters see their own world. This is false, and we accept this very easily all the time. It's why, as a relevant example, we wonder why good cartoon characters don't know that this person that was obviously designed with meta-concepts of "evil" in mind in order to communicate to children that they're bad on sight is, indeed, actually evil until they prove it. Unless you want to accept that such characters are simply stupid, then instead it's clear that the bad skin, scars, beady eyes, creepy smile, and dark attire are probably not translating as blatantly as warning signs to the fictional character who's actually interacting with them than they're translating to us. What is obvious to an audience with the power of omniscience is not obvious to a character who naturally lacks that power.

And there are other examples of this knowledge barrier we take for granted. It's why people scream at actors not to go into rooms where we know the killer is. It's why we know a single heroic martial arts fighter is probably going to be able to destroy the room of 100 men, in turn undermining the character's own sense of panic and adrenaline. Other times it humbles us, such as characters being able to understand Pokemon and translating their thoughts for us as if we're actually the idiots and need someone to hold our hand for what is clearly obvious communication to these trainers. The mere editing of a film also completely fucks up our sense of time compared to a fictional character's. A common example is the fact that a bomb's countdown is rarely done in real time since accuracy is considered to be less important than the act of using quick cuts to show simultaneous struggles during the countdown in order to raise tension for the audience. So while that one-minute countdown can be stretched to three minutes of film time, to all of the characters dealing with it, it was indeed one minute, and they feel lucky as shit to get that bomb deactivated despite us knowing that a bomb will rarely go off in these films.

 

In short, you're projecting your own omniscience as an audience member onto a fictional universe where it's completely impossible to do this with any accuracy. So perhaps Sonic and Shadow actually do look really fucking close to one another in order to fool the world into thinking Sonic has somehow turned bad or has shown up in weird places, and that the designs we see are just exaggerations for our own convenience.

 

I really don't think it's a stretch. Just to TL;DR this, I can entertain at least two possible lines of thought.

 

A. That there aren't many supersonic hedgehogs breaking the sound barrier, and the public media being what it is, jumping to conclusions. I still remember from the Sandy Hook shooting how the media reports were initially blaming Adam Lanza's brother for the incident, even though he was across the fucking country. Hell, to this day, nobody knows what guns Lanza actually used in the shooting, and what stayed in his car.

 

B. There's some sort of conspiracy theory and G.U.N. is just a bunch of dicks. The story doesn't state at all why G.U.N. concluded that Sonic was to blame for the incident, whether or not it was an honest mistake or not. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine these guys being assholes, because historically they are.

 

In Sonic Adventure 2, yes. His primary reason for having the teleporter is to get to the Ark quick and easy and even Rouge uses the damn thing later on. So once again, why does he need a rocket in the context of Sonic Adventure 2 to get to a place he already had a means of getting to?

 

What you're insinuating would only apply if we're talking outside of the context of this game, but that's kind of pointless because is always changing bases anyway between games.

 

Once again, why would he have one method of going to the ARK? Why assume he would have method of going into space? I mean really, people, use some fucking imagination here. It isn't hard to do some theorycrafting for this kind of stuff.

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Its pretty much the same pit trapping as Sonic Lost World, things happening without an explanation, or at least a believable one. Yea, when I was younger, I could justify everything that happened because I didn't know any better and thought the game was the shit. Now as an adult, with a far better understanding of things, I can see its kinda bad and trying to justify everything that happens doesn't detract from that. 

 

I don't really hate it any less, its still one of my favorite Sonic plots overall, but its baaaaaad lol. 

 

I'd say it's much less unexplained than Sonic Lost World (which rather than giving you the gist of things without much elaboration, instead gave you nothing), but yeah.

 

It's funny how much more cohesive SA1's story is compared to SA2's actually, lol. It's got it's plot holes too, but they're much more vague and forgivable than SA2's from what I can tell.

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I gotta agree with Nepenthe here. I always thought that the teleporter was only made after he first got into Ark. Surely there must be a receiver in place as well for the teleporter to work properly, like how a radio receives radio waves. So naturally Eggman had to first travel to Ark by some other means to set the receiving end up. That's what the space ship is for I think.

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What do you mean? The rocket stopped being his main mode of transportation to the ARK. He never uses it in the context of getting there himself, because he and the rest of Team Dark just use their secret transporter instead. And in fact, the ship was probably used to even build the link in the first place. That's literally it.

Seriously, this is like arguing the usefulness of someone still having a car just because they have a machine that can take them from their house to, like, a single store in the entire country. =/ "Well'p, I can warp to the Wal-Mart on Ponce and back. Time to throw out my old Chevy cuz I don't need it to go, I don't know, to school, to work, to Applebee's. I can warp to one place. That's all I need."

 

Then explain to me what's the general idea of Eggman having a rocket then, because maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way :V

 

I mean, its not even brought up until the heroes just decide "Eggman's got a rocket, lets use that" which is a reasonable assumption, but then I'm left wondering " Why does he have this rocket to begin with?" As in, what in-story justification have for existing beside getting the heroes to the Ark, when Eggman and Team Dark already had a primary means of transport.

 

If it was his main mode of transportation, sure it'd make sense. But its...not.

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Why tho? Was the teleporter ever in danger of being destroyed? None of it is explained lol. The rocket's only purpose in the story is to get the heroes to space and that's really it.

idk, in case the thing malfunctions and Eggman ends up with his head on backwards?

 

"... Why didn't somebody tell me my ass was so big?!"

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Then explain to me what's the general idea of Eggman having a rocket then, because maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way :V

 

I mean, its not even brought up until the heroes just decide "Eggman's got a rocket, lets use that" which is a reasonable assumption, but then I'm left wondering " Why does he have this rocket to begin with?" As in, what in-story justification have for existing beside getting the heroes to the Ark, when Eggman and Team Dark already had a primary means of transport.

 

If it was his main mode of transportation, sure it'd make sense. But its...not.

 

Why is it so hard to believe this:

 

362102-sa_dr_eggman_02.jpg

 

Would have a rocket? Hell, I'd imagine if he felt like it, he'd have rockets for his rockets.

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Why is it so hard to believe this:

 

362102-sa_dr_eggman_02.jpg

 

Would have a rocket? Hell, I'd imagine if he felt like it, he'd have rockets for his rockets.

 

 

Oh my god, I'm going to make this as clear as possible.

 

EGGMAN HAVING A ROCKET MAKES SENSE OVERALL.

 

 

EGGMAN HAVING A ROCKET WHEN HE ALREADY HAS A MEANS OF TRANSPORT IN THE CONTEXT OF SONIC ADVENTURE 2, AND ONLY SONIC ADVENTURE 2, DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

I'd say it's much less unexplained than Sonic Lost World (which rather than giving you the gist of things without much elaboration, instead gave you nothing), but yeah.

 

It's funny how much more cohesive SA1's story is compared to SA2's actually, lol. It's got it's plot holes too, but they're much more vague and forgivable than SA2's from what I can tell.

 

 

It just puts into a perspective how poor some of the plots for these games tend to be that we just never noticed lol. 

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I'd say it's much less unexplained than Sonic Lost World (which rather than giving you the gist of things without much elaboration, instead gave you nothing), but yeah.

 

It's funny how much more cohesive SA1's story is compared to SA2's actually, lol. It's got it's plot holes too, but they're much more vague and forgivable than SA2's from what I can tell.

 

Cohesive? In what sense? Maybe in the scheme that all the stories in SA1 are far, far more simple in nature than what Sonic Adventure 2 tried to acheive, but as a whole? I disagree.

 

And people seem to be using the term plothole, and I'm really questioning if they really know what a plothole is.

 

Oh my god, I'm going to make this as clear as possible.

 

EGGMAN HAVING A ROCKET MAKES SENSE OVERALL.

 

 

EGGMAN HAVING A ROCKET WHEN HE ALREADY HAS A MEANS OF TRANSPORT IN THE CONTEXT OF SONIC ADVENTURE 2, AND ONLY SONIC ADVENTURE 2, DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

So why are we assuming now that Sonic Adventure 2 is the only time he's used a rocket? Really, this is getting absurd.

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Then explain to me what's the general idea of Eggman having a rocket then, because maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way :V

 

I mean, its not even brought up until the heroes just decide "Eggman's got a rocket, lets use that" which is a reasonable assumption, but then I'm left wondering " Why does he have this rocket to begin with?" As in, what in-story justification have for existing beside getting the heroes to the Ark, when Eggman and Team Dark already had a primary means of transport.

 

If it was his main mode of transportation, sure it'd make sense. But its...not.

 

*sighs* TIME FOR EPISODE ONE OF PENTH'S AWESOME TIMELINE OF EVENTS ON SMALL SHIT THAT HAPPENS IN SA2.

 

(Pre-Game Day 1, 12:30 AM; Eggman's in bed eating evil cookies and milk and grumbling): That blasted hedgehog is always ruining my plans! But I have an idea: revamping my grandfather's greatest achievement, The ARK. I'll just build a teleporter tomorrow! (after further scheming, Eggman promptly retires at around 12:45, and starts evil-laugh snoring in a few seconds.)

 

(Pre-Game Day 1, 3:17 PM; Eggman has long since gotten ready for the day and has built the first part of the teleporter): Success! Soon my genius plan will be complete! But... wait a second. How do I get up there? I can't teleport to just anywhere with one half of the device! I need to establish a link somehow.... I know! (*He rushes out, tossing a wrench onto the head of an unsuspecting Motobug. It does not complain for fear of pay docking.)

(Pre-Game Day 2, 5:26 AM; Eggman has somehow secured a truck large enough to steal some space shuttles from the nearest outer space agency. The warning signal of a truck backing up doesn't apparently proceed to startle any of the guards. Or maybe that's the infinite amount of Buzzbombers holding the place hostage?)

 

(Pre-Game Day 2, 7:30 PM; Eggman has gotten one of the shuttles all set up in his hidden base. The Motobug from which he hit earlier proceeds to clap the loudest at his new fleet's unveiling. With it, he proceeds to blast off to ARK, and build the second transporter. Now he can happily warp to and fro.)

 

Then SA2 happens. Eggman never uses any shuttles in-game again. He uses his hidden teleporter. Skip to Sonic and co. finding his base. Remember that they were already having a hard time getting through it enough and weren't ones for exploring, particularly since they were racing against time in order to catch up to Team Dark. They realize Team Dark is in space and have no fucking clue how to get up there. Tails realizes Eggman's got some shuttles. So they take one. SA2 finishes, we have more games where space- not necessarily the ARK- is a setting (he probably used more shuttles to establish his initial bases and weapons up there), and finally for some strange reason on April 20, 2015- nearly 14 years after Eggman got the idea to steal some shuttles- we decide to revisit the fact that Eggman would even have them as if it's completely out of character or ruinous to any actual plot point or part of the narrative in the story at large, forcing poor Penth to think up creative ways to get across why him having shuttle isn't a big deal instead of making a sandwich like she should have 30 minutes ago.

Edited by Nepenthe
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It's amazing, we're not even talking about the story. We're just talking about a fucking rocket. This is what I noticed about the complaints about SA2's story. They never talk about the actual fucking story. They fixate on stupid little details.

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It's amazing, we're not even talking about the story. We're just talking about a fucking rocket. This is what I noticed about the complaints about SA2's story. They never talk about the actual fucking story. They fixate on stupid little details.

 

And the details are part of the story, whether you think those things are a big deal or not.

 

Also, please knock off the passive aggressiveness. It's not really helping any of the discussion improve from where it's at right now.

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So why are we assuming now that Sonic Adventure 2 is the only time he's used a rocket? Really, this is getting absurd.

BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SONIC ADVENTURE 2!?

 

 

 

*sighs* TIME FOR EPISODE ONE OF PENTH'S AWESOME TIMELINE OF EVENTS ON SMALL SHIT THAT HAPPENS IN SA2.

 

(Pre-Game Day 1, 12:30 AM; Eggman's in bed eating evil cookies and milk and grumbling): That blasted hedgehog is always ruining my plans! But I have an idea: revamping my grandfather's greatest achievement, The ARK. I'll just build a teleporter tomorrow! (after further scheming, Eggman promptly retires at around 12:45, and starts evil-laugh snoring in a few seconds.)

 

(Pre-Game Day 1, 3:17 PM; Eggman has long since gotten ready for the day and has built the first part of the teleporter): Success! Soon my genius plan will be complete! But... wait a second. How do I get up there? I can't teleport to just anywhere with one half of the device! I need to establish a link somehow.... I know! (*He rushes out, tossing a wrench onto the head of an unsuspecting Motobug. It does not complain for fear of pay docking.)

(Pre-Game Day 2, 5:26 AM; Eggman has somehow secured a truck large enough to steal some space shuttles from the nearest outer space agency. The warning signal of a truck backing up doesn't apparently proceed to startle any of the guards. Or maybe that's the infinite amount of Buzzbombers holding the place hostage?)

 

(Pre-Game Day 2, 7:30 PM; Eggman has gotten one of the shuttles all set up in his hidden base. The Motobug from which he hit earlier proceeds to clap the loudest at his new fleet's unveiling. With it, he proceeds to blast off to ARK, and build the second transporter. Now he can happily warp to and fro.)

 

Then SA2 happens. Eggman never uses any shuttles in-game again. He uses his hidden teleporter. Skip to Sonic and co. finding his base. Remember that they were already having a hard time getting through it enough and weren't ones for exploring, particularly since they were racing against time in order to catch up to Team Dark. They realize Team Dark is in space and have no fucking clue how to get up there. Tails realizes Eggman's got some shuttles. So they take one. SA2 finishes, we have more games where space- not necessarily the ARK- is a setting (he probably used more shuttles to establish his initial bases and weapons up there), and finally for some strange reason on April 20, 2015- nearly 14 years after Eggman got the idea to steal some shuttles- we decide to revisit the fact that Eggman would even have them as if it's completely out of character or ruinous to any actual plot point or part of the narrative in the story at large, forcing poor Penth to think up creative ways to get across why him having shuttle isn't a big deal instead of making a sandwich like she should have 30 minutes ago.

 

Ya know that makes a whole lot of sense and it seems like something Eggman would totally do. 

 

But then we have this scene

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsSoSeH_A5s&index=11&list=PL8B3C72840B4575B8

 

 

So if that's his first time ever going to Ark...when did he establish that link beforehand? Unless Eggman was hard drinking and just forgot about it all.

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That's actually even better than my glorious fanfiction, because it establishes in-game that Eggman needed a second mode of transportation to get up to the ARK in the first place. What was that second mode of transportation? SHUTTLES. FUCKING SPACE SHUTTLES. WHICH ALLOWS SONIC AND CO. TO USE ONE TO GET TO SPACE WITHOUT BREAKING CANON OR ANYTHING.

 

I swear to Almighty God, I still can't believe we had to have a fucking debate about this. I'm going home. Y'all SA2 nitpickers can have it. I'm done. I'm tired. I just want to draw.

I'm broken.

 

 

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Also just to let you guys know (since I haven't given my opinion), I find it completely appropriate for Eggman to hide a spaceship in a pyramid because he'd totally do something like that, but it's also pretty left field and weird that it's a NASA ship. But whatever man, lol.

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That's actually even better than my glorious fanfiction, because it establishes in-game that Eggman needed a second mode of transportation to get up to the ARK in the first place. What was that second mode of transportation? SHUTTLES. FUCKING SPACE SHUTTLES. WHICH ALLOWS SONIC AND CO. TO USE ONE TO GET TO SPACE WITHOUT BREAKING CANON OR ANYTHING.

 

I swear to Almighty God, I still can't believe we had to have a fucking debate about this. I'm going home. Y'all SA2 nitpickers can have it. I'm done. I'm tired. I just want to draw.

I'm broken.

 

 

ROUGE JUST SAID THERE WAS A TRANSPORTER SET TO THE ARK IN THE PRIOR SCENE LOL.

 

 

I'm not even nitpicking, I'm legit trying to figure out how does this make sense is all. If it was either the shuttle or the transporter there as the primary means, then Ok fine. But its not. You guys keep telling me it makes sense, I just wanna know how and why and it not be based on assumptions but context from the game itself.

 

I don't think I'm being unreasonable here D: I don't even consider it a plot hole, but a pretty weird plot point overall

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Also just to let you guys know (since I haven't given my opinion), I find it completely appropriate for Eggman to hide a spaceship in a pyramid because he'd totally do something like that, but it's also pretty left field and weird that it's a NASA ship. But whatever man, lol.

 

You're right. That's weird. Let's move on.

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It's amazing, we're not even talking about the story. We're just talking about a fucking rocket. This is what I noticed about the complaints about SA2's story. They never talk about the actual fucking story. They fixate on stupid little details.

 

Details matter.

 

However, this shuttle debate is baffling.

Eggman had a shuttle, who cares why he had one? He's done stuff in space before (Sonic 3 and Knuckles...?) and in order to establish a teleportation link he might have need to use a space shuttle to get there in the first place. Its stupid that its just a generic space shuttle and not something that is distinctly "Eggman", but that is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. I mean he could have fucking stolen the damn thing for all I care.

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I just wanted an in-story explanation for why he had two means of transport. I didn't think a question like that would rustle so many people's jimmies lol.

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