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What if Sonic had a game similar to Dragon Ball Xenoverse?


Detective Kaito
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Now I know what you're thinking: This is just a freaking crazy idea! No way Sega would ever do this! No way the fans (most anyway) would accept a game that lets you create your own fan characters! That's just stupid!

 

But be honest here. We all know you guys want it. Real bad. Including me, of course.

 

So, I've been playing Dragon Ball Xenoverse lately and loving it. I could get into detail about my likes and dislikes, but that's not really what's the topic about. The main feature of DBX is that it allows you to create your very own Dragon Ball character and go into the past to correct history and stop the villains that are interfering with it. Each race has his own unique attributes and there are 5 races in total: Saiyan, Human, Namekian, Majin Buu race, and Frieza race.

 

The idea actually worked out and the game sold even far beyond the company's expectation, and it continues to sell strong and is getting new DLC packs frequently.

 

Now, what if Sega tried something similar to that for an anniversary title or something? It doesn't really have to be a fighting game, maybe it could be a unique platformer or even an action RPG. Possibilities are almost endless in this one, but I'd be lying if I said that I don't want to create my own Sonic recolor just to save the Sonic history and revisit old stages (again~) to save the world along side our heroes.

 

Naturally, the races would include: Hedgehog, Fox, Echidna, Chameleon, etc.

 

I know this is just a silly wish, and it would cause major controversy in this fanbase (especially this fanbase), but if you want to re-read the title of this thread it says, "What if...?" :P

 

Anyways, what are your thoughts?

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I thought this topic was gonna be about a villain rewriting the timeline so that the heroes lost, and I was gonna point out that was essentially the plot of Sonic Generations. I'm sad that that's not the case.

 

But anyways I'm against it. Me personally I'm not fond of character creation as a concept. I'm not all that fond of the 'creating' side of it for starters (to the point I sorta just use generic sets) and when it comes to things like Sonic or Dragonball as mentioned, I'm more interested in experiencing the characters and their universe than inserting myself into it all.

 

I wouldn't complain if it did become a thing though, I'd just ignore it.

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I think the difference, and subsequently the challenge for a similar Sonic game, is that it's easier to pare down character types in DBZ without losing much individual identity than it is in the Sonic series. From Super Saiyan God Goku all the way down to like, I don't know, Chiaotzu, everyone does these four things: fly, power up, shoot energy blasts, and physically move at inhuman speeds. That is literally the foundation of a DBZ warrior no matter how many variances you tack onto these different things (The Destructo Disk is ultimately as much a blast as the Kamehameha is, and indeed Super Saiyan is as much a power up as Frieza's random transformations), meaning it's easier to plan for and subsequently code a world where everyone's on a similar keel and still fits in. And considering DBZ official has a history of embracing completely ridiculous, comedic, and even dumb character designs openly and brazenly, the absolute worst that one can create within the parameters of a character generator isn't entirely out of place. A blue, effeminately-dressed, burly dude with a mohawk probably exists in some afterlife pub somewhere unseen in Dragon Ball. Or at least I can believe that.

 

Sonic characters have more individual variances that make it a bit more difficult to create a character that fits in physically. At best, everyone can run somewhat fast and roll. But that's where the similarities kind of stop. Sonic is the undisputed fastest and has no real physical strength. Knuckles is roughly his opposite, and on top of that can glide and dig. Tails had his Tail attacks and can outright fly in short bursts, but in general has been relegated to a tech man recently meaning you'd probably have to code for the use of mechas and things of that nature. Amy's greatest strength is in her use of the hammer, meaning there's a close-quarters combat scenario you'd have to think about. Shadow is a tank that uses energy blasts. Cream throws her Chao. One can go on. The Sonic cast relies on their powers and physical specialties for partly defining their character, meaning every character is either going to have something unique about them or completely excel at something. And the last few times we tried to create character classes in Heroes and the Riders series, we saw how pretty interchangeable and milquetoast the cast became to play as a result.

 

The knowledge concerning unique powers aiding character identity has leaked onto the fanbase where every power imaginable is basically fair game. I mean, I have two active fancharacters myself: a bird that is a sound manipulator, and a terrier with digging abilities like Sonic using the Yellow Drill. If I want to be able to create them with some level of accuracy in a game, to what extent must a designer actually take this into account when making a character generator? The amount of powers and variances you'd have to think about is potentially insane.

 

Furthermore, how does one reconcile the use of these abilities with speed, platforming, and rolling? Because those things are what define Sonic as an experience, and no matter what it's what people expect when buying a major title, regardless of whether or not it's a spin-off, in the same way people expect to fly, power up, shoot energy blasts, and move at inhumane speeds when they pop in a Dragon Ball game. Really, what would we be doing in this world anyway? What's the objective and goals? Is it a social platform like Second Life, in which case speed, platforming, and rolling are going to take a backseat, or is it more like an objective-driven game? If so, what would be the objectives? The plot, if any? How do you suddenly reconcile a world that has largely been defined as the conflict between a small group of animals against a mad dictator, with a MMO world where not only are there going to be shitloads of superpowered animals now, but half of them are going to be working with Dr. Eggman for whatever reason if you choose to allow moral alignment?

 

I mean, I personally wouldn't mind taking my characters for a test run in some hypothetical game where they could be reasonably recreated. I at least think my bird's good enough to stand as a game character. But I just don't see how it could work right now in the typical MMO format.

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Even if Generations hadn't already done the whole time travel nostalgia retread thing, there aren't even enough events that I'd want to revisit. There are too many bad and mediocre games in this series. And the good ones I've already largely exhausted my interest in, having gone back to them repeatedly as new games have disappointed.

And I have trouble imagining them making a character creator that was actually deep and flexible enough to be interesting. The fanbase has been inundated with bad fan character designs for so long that cookie-cutter design has gone beyond boring and into being actually off putting. It takes actual creative talent and originality to make a fan character that doesn't make me groan. And besides that, it wouldn't do anything to keep my interest in a game that wasn't fun in the first place anyway.

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I think I said this before the forum's big wipe out. 

 

" A sonic game with a character creation system would sell millions and you know it" 

 

Well, it's kinda true. I can see a sonic xenoverse type game becoming a big hit because, lets face it, sonic fan-characters are pretty much  big thing on the internet. Some people will look at like it and laugh. Yet others, especially certain fans, will love it. Not saying it can't work, but I really don't know if it's a good idea or not. 

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I think the difference, and subsequently the challenge for a similar Sonic game, is that it's easier to pare down character types in DBZ without losing much individual identity than it is in the Sonic series. From Super Saiyan God Goku all the way down to like, I don't know, Chiaotzu, everyone does these four things: fly, power up, shoot energy blasts, and physically move at inhuman speeds. That is literally the foundation of a DBZ warrior no matter how many variances you tack onto these different things (The Destructo Disk is ultimately as much a blast as the Kamehameha is, and indeed Super Saiyan is as much a power up as Frieza's random transformations), meaning it's easier to plan for and subsequently code a world where everyone's on a similar keel and still fits in. And considering DBZ official has a history of embracing completely ridiculous, comedic, and even dumb character designs openly and brazenly, the absolute worst that one can create within the parameters of a character generator isn't entirely out of place. A blue, effeminately-dressed, burly dude with a mohawk probably exists in some afterlife pub somewhere unseen in Dragon Ball. Or at least I can believe that.

 

Sonic characters have more individual variances that make it a bit more difficult to create a character that fits in physically. At best, everyone can run somewhat fast and roll. But that's where the similarities kind of stop. Sonic is the undisputed fastest and has no real physical strength. Knuckles is roughly his opposite, and on top of that can glide and dig. Tails had his Tail attacks and can outright fly in short bursts, but in general has been relegated to a tech man recently meaning you'd probably have to code for the use of mechas and things of that nature. Amy's greatest strength is in her use of the hammer, meaning there's a close-quarters combat scenario you'd have to think about. Shadow is a tank that uses energy blasts. Cream throws her Chao. One can go on. The Sonic cast relies on their powers and physical specialties for partly defining their character, meaning every character is either going to have something unique about them or completely excel at something, and that knowledge has leaked onto the fanbase where every power imaginable is basically fair game. I mean, I have two active fancharacters myself: a bird that is a sound manipulator, and a terrier with digging abilities like Sonic using the Yellow Drill. If I want to be able to create them with some level of accuracy in a game, to what extent must a designer actually take this into account when making a character generator? The amount of powers and variances you'd have to think about is potentially insane.

 

Furthermore, how does one reconcile the use of these abilities with speed, platforming, and rolling? Because those things are what define Sonic as an experience, and no matter what it's what people expect when buying a major title, regardless of whether or not it's a spin-off, in the same way people expect to fly, power up, shoot energy blasts, and move at inhumane speeds when they pop in a Dragon Ball game. Really, what would we be doing in this world anyway? What's the objective and goals? Is it a social platform like Second Life, in which case speed, platforming, and rolling are going to take a backseat, or is it more like an objective-driven game? If so, what would be the objectives? The plot, if any? How do you suddenly reconcile a world that has largely been defined as the conflict between a small group of animals against a mad dictator, with a MMO world where not only are there going to be shitloads of superpowered animals now, but half of them are going to be working with Dr. Eggman for whatever reason if you choose to allow moral alignment?

 

I mean, I personally wouldn't mind taking my characters for a test run in some hypothetical game where they could be reasonably recreated. I at least think my bird's good enough to stand as a game character. But I just don't see how it could work right now in the typical MMO format.

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Well, the thing with Dragon Ball is that everyone's special abilities are mainly just aesthetic variations on the four things I named. If your character has some super-awesome God-ordained transformation that only belongs to him, it's still nonetheless a transformation, and it can more or less be easily coded under the class that all of the other transformations exist in. The variances in character, and subsequently the fanbase that has stemmed from Dragon Ball, is much smaller than Sonic's. Again, I have a fan character character that manipulates sound which is more specific than a transformation that increases speed and power. If a hypothetical game wanted to support that, it would need a power or something similar to that (the closest you get I guess is a psychic class?), and subsequently someone would need to code and animate the effects that it would have on the environment, which would be completely different than generic fire powers which would be different than water powers and so on and so forth. Subsequently, this character is a bird. I'm going to need a bird class along with generic foxes, echidnas, and hedgehogs, and indeed to reach the widest audiences possible you're going to need a lot of editable animal models anyway.

 

I just think- due to the nature of Sonic and subsequently the nature of Sonic fan character creation which is pretty much no-holds barred- the base needs of the game alone are way too big to actually make it a standout title without either paring this down into an image-based sim game like Flight Rising where you don't really need animated assets so much as still pictures and good code, or having the money, dedication, and public support to host this game and constantly add in new content over time a la WoW.

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It depends what type of game it would be, would it be a weird flying around punching and kicking fighter like dbz

 

or would you be racing like adventure through old sonic levels

 

And how much freedom would they give you on creating your own character?

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It depends what type of game it would be, would it be a weird flying around punching and kicking fighter like dbz

 

or would you be racing like adventure through old sonic levels

 

And how much freedom would they give you on creating your own character?

 

Due to the above posts, I guess the easiest to make without too much trouble would be a fighting game. You get to choose abilities from other Sonic characters as you learn them along your journey.

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I have to admit that this sounds somewhat interesting.

My biggest concerns about this are the fact that how Sonic-series would fit to this and would there be good enough character creation options and how this own character would fit to the Sonic universe.

And if those rules would be fulfilled, I honestly would like to have the game single player rather than MMO. I just prefer playing RPG-like games alone.

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Due to the above posts, I guess the easiest to make without too much trouble would be a fighting game. You get to choose abilities from other Sonic characters as you learn them along your journey.

 

When i said "how much freedom would they give you on creating your own character?" i meant like the way characters look, for instance could I make a character that looks exactly like the one as my avatar?

If yes though I'd be down for it.

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I never liked making your own character, as it can make them imbalanced, let's all look at Emerl in Sonic Battle with customization moves...

 

You can only make him "unbalanced" if you cheat, technically you can't use the "ultimate emerl" you battle as sonic in story mode

(unless you're like me and cheat of course)

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You can only make him "unbalanced" if you cheat, technically you can't use the "ultimate emerl" you battle as sonic in story mode

(unless you're like me and cheat of course)

That's not what makes the Emerl system unbalanced - the problem is that you can mix and match moves that were never intended to be used together and break the game. Get him a power or upper move that comes out really fast and mix it with Tails or Cream's air attacks - basically self-comboing infinites on their own - and nobody will be able to even touch you. That's just a really basic example too - I've seen people do some crazy shit by mixing Rouge's dash attack with other dash techniques, and you basically win by default if you ever get Cream's healing ability.

 

Going back to the subject at hand, it's important to note that character abilities in Sonic games, or at least the good ones, all center around mobility. Sonic can airdash, Tails can fly, Knux can glide and climb, and they all share a basic set of moves that allow them all to benefit from the same basic design principles even if their special moves can exploit them in different ways or open up new routes to explore. Aesthetic customization is a can of worms I'm not going to touch, but gameplay wise, all a custom character needs to differentiate is a single special move once the core gameplay is set up for it.

 

There really need not be an analogue for every possible character ability under the sun (though thinking about it now, translating the elemental shield abilities from S3&K into character moves would be a cool throwback) - just as many different movement options as they can design a single level around. Hell, many of them have similar focuses anyway - levitation can substitute for gliding, teleportation can assume many of the same practical uses as the homing attack, wall jumping can be made to deal with most of the same walls Knux climbing can, and so on and so forth - so it's not even necessarily a question of designing a single level around every individual ability they cram in so much as assessing a custom character's range of movement and putting shit into the level accordingly.

 

...unless your intention was literally to make a fighting game with Sonic fan characters, in which case you're honestly better off sticking with the Sonic cast alone because there's already more than enough variety between them. =V

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That's not what makes the Emerl system unbalanced - the problem is that you can mix and match moves that were never intended to be used together and break the game. Get him a power or upper move that comes out really fast and mix it with Tails or Cream's air attacks - basically self-comboing infinites on their own - and nobody will be able to even touch you. That's just a really basic example too - I've seen people do some crazy shit by mixing Rouge's dash attack with other dash techniques, and you basically win by default if you ever get Cream's healing ability.

 

Lol, I guess you haven't seen the Combo attacks you unlock by putting in passwords to the sonic team building in SB

 

But anyways, If there was something where you could get any of the Sonic character's abilities, your also forgetting character's like Silver and Blaze exist, Telekinesis, pyrokinesis.........

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I don't see it having any sort of impact on the franchise. Positive or negative.

 

That said, a game like it might be neat...though knowing Sega, the way it might be handled would undoubtedly be, at best, another in a long line of base breakers.

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I honestly don't see why the hell not.  Maybe it's because I've been playing nothing but MMOs and wannabe MMOs *coughdestinycough* lately, but the Sonic brand does not strike me as one that would be negatively impacted by the concept.  It's not like Sonic fans already don't have a bazillion recolors anyway.  I'm going to trust that if they DID undertake such a project, they'd bring the necessary developer talent to make both a decent customization system, as well as a solid campaign, and of course, post game online content, which is really where the meat of these games is.

 

Of course, you'd have people like the majority of this thread who are content to use the stock characters, you'd have your people who just want flying green Sonics, and then you'd have those that would make pretty boss designs.  All of that is perfectly fine, and so long as the game is actually good, and gets the support it needs to keep thriving, I would be 200% on board.

 

That last issue is the kicker though.  These kind of games need constant post launch support in likes of bug fixes, patches, and of course DLC to continue expanding the lore and the end game via raids and or dungeons, new quests, new levels and all that jazz.  I may be forgetting a patch or five, but I don't recall the Sonic brand EVER getting significant post game content.  There may be the odd level expansion, but those have just been pieces of existing stages.  There haven't even been full characters added through DLC aside from racing games.  Making this game essentially requires a whole new mindset from the Sonic staff, and they truly strike me as too proud to ever make that kind of investment. 

 

I mean hell, I remember hearing of Iizuka getting all bitchy over the idea of alternate character colors for some racing game.  That's just like, come on man, for real? That's literally the most basic customization aspect of any game, if that really rustles your jimmies, you might be in the wrong business.

 

TL;DR: This would probably sell like hotcakes, but the Sonic staff is, as always, way too goddamn inept to pull it off

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