Fleetway Design Conventions

[Your Vest Friend]

Well, there were some characters who could be defined as 'clone characters' who fit more into the Sonic design ideal;

 

 

 

And yet they're still probably more visually distinct from the designs they derive from than Scourge or, like, 90% of all the Archie Echidnas ever,

[azoo]

It's just a lot more noticeable and irritating to look at Sonic. 

 

Mostly because in those shots, you're looking at muscley super hero men who follow the expectations of (mostly) realistic anatomy, doing intense comic-book-fare action poses.

 

Meanwhile, you put it on a rubberhose cartoon character like Sonic, and THEN make him pudgier, shorter, scowlier, and give him that one face you see every character on Kids Next Door do, and then it sticks out much worse.

 

IDK, it just bothers me especially. :v

[Osmium]

I've always found StC extremely weird in how it started off like a straight adaptation of whatever the creators could piece together from the games at that point (thus starting off as, by default, the most accurate-to-the-source-material alternate media for Sonic), and then suddenly became darker and grimier and more Judge Dredd like as it went.

If everyone that worked on the comic came from working on 2000AD though, I guess that explains why.

Still always found the non-main character designs to be extremely odd all the way through, that is whenever they weren't being directly based on the reference art. Everyone who ever got their mitts on Sonic in the 90s seemed to not want to bother making anyone that wasn't Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and the Chaotix fit into the "rubberhose cutesy" style.

That said, I still find that StC's artwork most often reigned supreme over Archie's. At least the Fleetway crew had some talent behind them, because those backgrounds and the amount of detail in the environments was stunning.. not to mention how incredible they all looked thanks to being painted instead of just plain ol' inked.

...

Can I also bring up the elephant in the room? That being how Sonic always did that one pose?

You know, that one pose?

Seriously what's up with the O mouth, legs spread, bending forward, 'both hands in front or with one hand in front clenched with the other behind him' kinda pose? It's like 3/4s of Sonic's poses past about the S3K adaptation or so, and it's really irritating to look at over and over, especially since Sonic only seemed to get more and more fat/squat and scowly. Was really ugly.

That was one of Elson's largest problems. He was horrible when it came to expressions, Sonic had like a total of 3 faces. And most of the poses that he drew were really forced and awkward looking.

I generally like Elson's Sonic over Spaziante's Sonic, because I like the more squat classic style over Spaziante who drew Sonic like a bobble head in the later 90s.

I will agree that it did start to get really ugly. There was way too much detail and wrinkles put all over all the characters.

[Mauro Fonseca]

It's just a lot more noticeable and irritating to look at Sonic. 

 

Mostly because in those shots, you're looking at muscley super hero men who follow the expectations of (mostly) realistic anatomy, doing intense comic-book-fare action poses.

 

Meanwhile, you put it on a rubberhose cartoon character like Sonic, and THEN make him pudgier, shorter, scowlier, and give him that one face you see every character on Kids Next Door do, and then it sticks out much worse.

 

IDK, it just bothers me especially. :v

Not saying you can't find it weird, just saying

it's not an elephant in the room if it's been talked about :V

[azoo]

Sorry if I missed it then. Was skimming the topic and there was a lot said with little visual demonstration about the subject. :v

 

I generally like Elson's Sonic over Spaziante's Sonic, because I like the more squat classic style over Spaziante who drew Sonic like a bobble head in the later 90s.

I will agree that it did start to get really ugly. There was way too much detail and wrinkles put all over all the characters.

I'll always prefer Spaz's Sonic over Elson's, but Spaz has had some poopy variations of course. Late 90s was really trying to be similar to anime that was popular at the time, which was horrible, but he seemed to sort of get back on track later... maybe. His current work that's based on classic Sonic is spot-on, though.

Also, I think western comic book artists just have a problem trying to draw Sonic in general without worrying about extra detail on everything ever.

While Elson and crew in StC suffered with that, Spaz, Steven Butler, and Jay Axer in particular from Archie seemed to have this obsession with giving Sonic and co really detailed hands, clothing, hair, etc... even sometimes arms and legs. Eww.

Like come on guys, do you even know how to cartoon? :v

[Osmium]

Sorry if I missed it then. Was skimming the topic and there was a lot said with little visual demonstration about the subject. :v I'll always prefer Spaz's Sonic over Elson's, but Spaz has had some poopy variations of course. Late 90s was really trying to be similar to anime that was popular at the time, which was horrible, but he seemed to sort of get back on track later... maybe. His current work that's based on classic Sonic is spot-on, though.Also, I think western comic book artists just have a problem trying to draw Sonic in general without worrying about extra detail on everything ever.While Elson and crew in StC suffered with that, Spaz, Steven Butler, and Jay Axer in particular from Archie seemed to have this obsession with giving Sonic and co really detailed hands, clothing, hair, etc... even sometimes arms and legs. Eww.Like come on guys, do you even know how to cartoon? :v

Oh yeah, I forgot Spaziante more recent work. It's actually really great and on model.

I was talking about Spaziante's Sonic throughout Issue 40-70. He drew Sonic with an enormous head and a really small body with 10 foot tall legs, and enormous hands and shoes. It always annoyed me.

[Mogtaki]

Yeah I really liked the side characters in StC, even when the designs looked a little strange for some (like that sheep lady, I really liked how badass she was in the comic). They were fun.

 

You gotta admit for Elson though: he nailed Super Sonic.

 

Although, when it came to drawing Sonic, I remember I really did like Roberto Corona's stuff although he did have a problem drawing Sonic side on. Him and Andy Pritchett's colouring worked great together. Pritchett was also alright at giving his own twist on drawing stories with a very Disney-like flare to them.

 

I dunno, I thought they were fine growing up with them. Archie Sonic suffered with an awkward pose and art problem for a hell of a lot longer before digital was used more widely. Remember these guys were often given 2 week deadlines with a lot of their stuff being traditional over digital.

[Osmium]

Super Sonic looked cool too, but I think he also suffered from way to much detail in later issues.

I liked Super Sonic more when he looked like this.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090621142831/sonic/images/2/2f/STC7-SuperSonic.JPG

When it comes to drawing Sonic characters, I think less is more. Sonic is like Mickey Mouse. You wouldn't draw Mickey with a bunch of gritty details.

[Osmium]

Okay, Super Sonic's design. 

 

In the beginning, he looked like this:

 

 

He looked more normal back then. Sure he had the swirling eyes, but he had normal teeth and looked cleaner. 

 

In his multiple appearances, he started to look more and more crazy. 

 

 

 

In issue 80, he was slightly redesigned. He got fangs and his spines were more ruffled.

 

 

After issue 100, when he became an amnesiac, his design got a little more innocent. 

 

 

Super Sonic would appear occasionally for a few years more until the very end. 

 

When he got recharged inside of Chaos, he became all detailed again, but now he has the weird adventure spines that went up and down like Sonic's. 

[Osmium]

Let's talk about Amy. 

 

When she was introduced, she looked like this. 

 

It's quite similar to the Sonic CD design, except her spines point upwards. The reason for this is I think it was probably both because of the CD artwork, and because I bet that Elson decided to keep her like that to make her look different than Sonic. 

 

It would also like to note an unusual thing in this design. He body appears to be spherical like Sonic. I'm guessing that Eslon decided to draw all hedgehogs like that, during that point of time. 

 

Later on, she gained the more familiar heart shirt. 

This was the design that she's most known for. She also had a large variety of shirts, such as this one. 

 

By Sonic Adventure, she got the Adventure downward spines, and a grey jacket. I don't know if this is better or worse than the actual Adventure design, it's just different. 

 

Yeah.

 

So what do you think? I think her design overall was pretty good, but It's not really better than the games, it was just different. 

[Salamander]

I really liked the upwards-pointing spikes; it made her look distinct from Sonic whilst still fitting an obvious hedgehog figure.  Like Knuckles's neck ornament, I regard the design decision as a happy accident (seeing as both were based on mistaken interpretations of the official designs).

[Osmium]

I really liked the upwards-pointing spikes; it made her look distinct from Sonic whilst still fitting an obvious hedgehog figure.  Like Knuckles's neck ornament, I regard the design decision as a happy accident (seeing as both were based on mistaken interpretations of the official designs).

 

The upwards spikes are distinct and I do like them. They remind me of Sonic CD in a way. 

 

Yeah, it most likely was an accident, as the only art for Amy at the time really was that one where her spines are pointing up. 

[MamboCat]

Oooh goody, STC topic! *wades in*

 

Uum, yes I'm almost convinced that Amy's mohawk of spikes was a mis-interpretation of the Sonic CD artwork, where I'm pretty sure her normally backwards-facing spikes are pointing the opposite way to convey motion and to ensure they don't get in Sonic's face! XD

 

However, I first saw that art and assumed Amy's spikes were meant to be that way too, so yeah... and I always preferred her look that way. It's Classic STC Amy! I've said many times that STC Amy is my favourite version of her, and some of that is because of her design. She isn't just Sonic with a pink palette. She has a semi-punky look with the mohawk, has a varied wardrobe(!) which is centred around leggings, combat pants and amusing tshirts. It really speaks a lot about her personality, plus it's a lot more functional for a Freedom Fighter to wear than a tutu and a blouse!

 

Other designs; yes they varied a lot by both model and by artist, but these were the 90s! Many of the AoSTH and SatAM characters varied greatly from Sonic's design. Some of these designs I think worked quite well; Tekno for example, looks like a Flicky. Sally Acorn looks like a Ricky... Porker Lewis and Johnny Lightfoot... you get what I mean. Some of the other designs such as Plunder are of course, nowhere near Sonic style but I think it's awesome anyway. I mean, he has a multifunctional, Swiss army knife for a pirate hook! I honestly think that is a subtle design choice that is just great. Shortfuse the Cybernik looks like a Badnik.. I mean, duh he's meant to be one.. but he's still recognisably a squirrel. And Tekno's modifications of his armour injects a bit more colour into his design.

 

I think the only main character's design I didn't like much was Tails; sometimes he looked like AoSTH/SatAM Tails and sometimes he looked like Sega Tails... sometimes he looked really weird! There just wasn't much consistency going on with him.

 

Speaking of consistency; sure they weren't Segaified, but I feel STC had consistent cats; Ebony, Fleabyte and Cam looked similar... well I suppose the latter had really spiky teeth on her first appearance(!) but all were vaguely humanoid, tall and had muzzle-less faces with smallish eyes. So sometimes, I think they had some good ideas going, and sometimes it was just a bit... whu?

 

I can't finish this post without mentioning STC Robotnik, borrowing heavily from AoSTH. Sure it was a similar design, but it was definitely not the same character! AoSTH was drawn in a ridiculous way, but sometimes STC Robotnik could look really scary. It was a much better choice that the original Sega Robotnik... and it would eventually evolve into a more Sonic Adventure-style, with the Eggman uniform and rounder body shape. And he still looked scary.

[Osmium]

Uum, yes I'm almost convinced that Amy's mohawk of spikes was a mis-interpretation of the Sonic CD artwork, where I'm pretty sure her normally backwards-facing spikes are pointing the opposite way to convey motion and to ensure they don't get in Sonic's face! XD

 

However, I first saw that art and assumed Amy's spikes were meant to be that way too, so yeah... and I always preferred her look that way. It's Classic STC Amy! I've said many times that STC Amy is my favourite version of her, and some of that is because of her design. She isn't just Sonic with a pink palette. She has a semi-punky look with the mohawk, has a varied wardrobe(!) which is centred around leggings, combat pants and amusing tshirts. It really speaks a lot about or her personality, plus it's a lot more functional for a Freedom Fighter to be wearing than a tutu and a blouse!

 

I think the upward spines, and wardrobe in STC is VERY fitting for her personality. 

 

I agree with you that it was very functional for her personality too. It would have been awkward if Amy was still running around in her CD outfit in the later issues that were focused on taking Robotnik down from Metropolis. 

 

Porker Lewis and Johnny Lightfoot... you get what I mean. Some of the other designs such as Plunder are of course, nowhere near Sonic style but I think it's awesome anyway. I mean, he has a multifunctional, Swiss army knife for a pirate hook! I honestly think that is a subtle design choice that is just great. Shortfuse the Cybernik looks like a Badnik.. I mean, duh he's meant to be one.. but he's still recognisably a squirrel. And Tekno's modifications of his armour injects a bit more colour into his design.

 

Porker and Johnny are strange examples as they started out as Picky and Pocky but became increasingly humanoid overtime. They are actually good representatives of how the comic changed overtime. The art and stories started out simple, but became darker and more detailed over time. 

 

They're not bad, just very odd, and they looked less and less Sonic like over time. Especially Johnny who I think was WAY too tall. He was like 3 Sonics tall at one point. 

 

Captain Plunder has a cool design, but it's ultimately unfitting for the overall Sonic style. Don't get me wrong, I like it but he doesn't mesh well with the Sonic characters at all. 

 

Shortfuse has an excellent design that could easily be translated to the games, and it definitely gets points from me for that. Shortfuse works because the design was simple and to the point. It had just enough detail to where it adds to the design and doesn't make it look overly complicated and creepy like some other characters. 

 

I think the only main character's design I didn't like much was Tails; sometimes he looked like AoSTH/SatAM Tails and sometimes he looked like Sega Tails... sometimes he looked really weird! There just wasn't much consistency going on with him.

 

Tails was strange in how he evolved. In earlier issues he actually resembled how he did in the early game art a lot, but morphed into the cartoon design over time. Richard Elson in particular slowly transformed Tails from Sonic 2 to AOSTH. 

 

This picture is from issue 7, the first issue the Richard drew. Tails here looks a lot like how he did in Sonic 2, but he started to look more and more like his AOSTH counterpart over time. 

 

Nigel Dobbyn in particular really liked drawing Tails in AOSTH style in later issues. 

 

I personally prefer the Issue 7 Tails where he looked a lot more like how he did in the Sonic 2 art. 

It's probably because I never liked the design for AOSTH/SatAM Tails very much. 

 

Speaking of consistency; sure they weren't Segaified, but I feel STC had consistent cats; Ebony, Fleabyte and Cam looked similar... well I suppose the latter had really spiky teeth on her first appearance(!) but all were vaguely humanoid, tall and had muzzle-less faces with smallish eyes. So sometimes, I think they had some good ideas going, and sometimes it was just a bit... whu?

 

You know, I never realized that all the cat characters were actually that similar to each other like that. 

Ebony wasn't that bad, but Fleabyte was unremarkable at best, and Cam was fucking frightening. 

 

I can't finish this post without mentioning STC Robotnik, borrowing heavily from AoSTH. Sure it was a similar design, but it was definitely not the same character! AoSTH was drawn in a ridiculous way, but sometimes STC Robotnik could look really scary. It was a much better choice that the original Sega Robotnik... and it would eventually evolve into a more Sonic Adventure-style, with the Eggman uniform and rounder body shape. And he stilllooked scary.

 

Fleetway Robotnik was a very successful design. They took a design that was supposed to look really dumb and silly and made it very threatening. It was a lot better than how he looked in the first 21 issues, where they used SOA box art Robotnik. 

 

In fact, It would have been very interesting to see what they would have done with him if they had SOJ Classic Eggman to work with, instead of the AOSTH design.