Sonic 4 Episode 1 & 2 being de-listed from mobile stores

[Autosaver]

Sorry, but I don't buy it that they don't want to patch it because it costs too much money. Sonic 4 PC Edition was patched by a SEGA Forum member. SEGA complained that it was too much work for them to fix it but the guy who fixed it claimed all he had to do was change two lines of coding. If I remember correctly, the iOS 7/8 broken apps affected a lot of different studios who quickly pushed out a fix. SEGA is just stupidly lazy and whoever is in charge has been making bad decisions.

 

Episode 2 crashes at cutscenes. While I'm not an expert on the cost of fixing that, I guarantee that it's probably not much. I'm more upset that they tried to cover up the issue at first (claiming it's a user problem, not an app problem) and then lying saying a fix was going to be pushed out soon. Two years later with no fix and all that's said is they're pulling it from the store.

 

These are fully completed games. Ported, bug tested, optimized, marketed, etc. The profits from the game should've included future bug fixing. It destroys consumer confidence when a game you buy goes to an unplayable state a month later. 

 

Another case was the Taxman games. As soon as the games weren't compatible with iPhone 6/6+, Taxman pushed out an update. SEGA didn't bother actually putting up that update until 7 months later. SEGA is just stupidly lazy.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Sorry, but I don't buy it that they don't want to patch it because it costs too much money. Sonic 4 PC Edition was patched by a SEGA Forum member. SEGA complained that it was too much work for them to fix it but the guy who fixed it claimed all he had to do was change two lines of coding. If I remember correctly, the iOS 7/8 broken apps affected a lot of different studios who quickly pushed out a fix. SEGA is just stupidly lazy and whoever is in charge has been making bad decisions.

 

Did that Sega forum member get a salary for that?

 

Did his work have to go through QA testing?

 

If it did, did those QA testers get paid a salary?

 

Did that work then have to go through the process of resubmission to an online store?

 

If the answer is yes to any of those you might have a point.

 

The process to make a patch on any game is expensive, for something like this you are easily looking at somewhere in the region of $3000 - $5000 and that's a conservative estimate.

 

This will also vary depending on how Sega have paid for their technical support. e.g. is it a ticketing based system, an annual cost or is it a set cost for a set number of tickets

 

Now given how old Sonic 4 is, odds are the annual cost has expired, so they'll likely be on either a ticketing based system or have to pay a set cost for X number of technical support tickets. Basically, the most expensive options.

 

Here is a rough process as to what Sega has to go through in order to fix any bug.

 

You have to first analyse the problem. Some of the costs associated with that step alone are as follows.

 

• Salary * number of people working on the problem.
• Technical running cost.
• Documentation of the problem.

 

Then you have the identification of the problem and the design/creation/implementation of a fix.

 

• Salary * number of people working on the problem.
• Technical running cost.
• Documentation of the process

Testing of the fix.

 

• Salary * number of people in the QA team. (this can be very expensive depending on the level of testing. e.g do they just test the fix, or potential impacts that the fix may have in other areas.
• Technical running cost.
• Documentation of the process.

Resubmitting the fix.

• Salary * number of people involved.
• Any resubmission fees (depends on the online store).
• Creation of any public documentation for the fix.

 

Does matter if it's two lines of code or two thousand, the process for technical support is very expensive, for games which are out of their first or second year it's even more expensive. Might sound maddening or insane to think that changing two lines of code costs this much, but the fact is it does, technical support is one of the most expensive parts of game development when you consider how much work a fix can take.

 

E.g. I once fixed some software by changing a 0 to a 1. Potentially I could have charged nearly £1000 for that fix alone depending on who the client was.

[Autosaver]

Your point falls apart because most of that still had to be done with the user made fix. SEGA analyzed the problem, identified the problem (but didn't actually fix it because they claimed they couldn't), tested the fix, and resubmitted the fix.

 

You also ignored the fact that this was well documented by SEGA many years ago, the fact that they lied to us and promised a fix, SOLD the game while it was broken for 2 years, and that many other developers have fixed old titles that didn't work anymore. I also pointed out how Taxman put out an update that fixed the issue and SEGA took over 7 months to release it.

 

SEGA is very incompetent and their business practices show it. I'm not even sure why you're defending SEGA either. When a game sells over 1 million copies I expect some of that to go into bug fixing. You know, a thing SEGA games have clearly lacked lately.

 

I bought a game that I can't play. Fuck me, right? Clearly SEGA is the victim here and they can't afford to put out a bug fix.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Your point falls apart because most of that still had to be done with the user made fix. SEGA analyzed the problem, identified the problem (but didn't actually fix it because they claimed they couldn't), tested the fix, and resubmitted the fix.

 

I really don't think my point does fall apart when I know how much this kind of stuff costs when by your own admission you don't.

 

Why are you also quoting sales records from when a game was released yet the problem developed sometime after? How does this back up your point? If the sales have started to dry up, why spend all the money fixing the problem when it's cheaper to refund and de-list?

 

The stealth tax point is a completely different issue entirely 

[Autosaver]

Why spend all the money fixing the problem when it's cheaper to refund and de-list?

Ok, hold it right here. This is the entire problem with SEGA. When you sell a broken game for 3 years and then go "Well, we got all your money let's run off with it now!" you can fuck off. Many of us bought this game years ago, and waited many months (YEARS!) for SEGA to put out a fix. I don't think we're eligible for refunds now.

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

I don't think we're eligible for refunds now.

 

 

So in that time nobody affected thought to call up the respective stores and get their money back?

 

There is this thing called consumer rights in which the onus is on you the consumer to act upon them if the people behind the product don't.

[Autosaver]

So in that time nobody affected thought to call up the respective stores and get their money back?

Refund policy is 90 days. Pretty sure the bug popped up after that mark. You live in Europe, most of us live in the US. We don't have the same consumer protection policies as you do.

 

We were also told there was a fix coming out. I don't get why you're defending SEGA so hard. Claiming nothing was wrong, then claiming they were going to look into the issue, then claiming a fix was coming very soon, claiming devs were working "very hard" to get a fix out ASAP... then back pedaling as time goes on until we forgot about it and then removing it from the store entirely?

[Badnik Mechanic]

We were also told there was a fix coming out. I don't get why you're defending SEGA so hard. Claiming nothing was wrong, then claiming they were going to look into the issue, then claiming a fix was coming very soon, claiming devs were working "very hard" to get a fix out ASAP... then back pedaling as time goes on until we forgot about it and then removing it from the store entirely?

 

Yeah I'm sure I'm doing that.

 

You said you had no idea how much development cost was and ceited that a fan did it and it probably didn't cost that much.

 

I'm pointing out that line of thinking is completely wrong and that even a small fix can cost a small fortune.

[sonicDX]

But what happened? Why are they removed?

[Autosaver]

Hold on a minute. You're claiming you're not defending SEGA yet you're constantly pestering me why I never took action before and saying that it would cost SEGA too much money? Oh poor SEGA!

 

On the resolution matter, that was more of a knock toward SEGA's incompetence. Releasing a game at a locked 720p resolution is just fucking awful. I don't think SEGA was clueless on how to fix it, I think they just didn't care. And no, don't bother bringing up money because this was when the game was first released at a $15 price tag.
 

I'm pointing out that line of thinking is completely wrong and that even a small fix can cost a small fortune.

The issue is that iOS 7/8 changed some of the game API's. Many game developers quickly released a patch to fix this. Square Enix is even going back to their old games and fixing it.

 

Square Enix: http://toucharcade.com/2015/02/02/the-world-ends-with-you-is-broken-on-ios-8-but-square-enix-will-be-fixing-it/

 

But like I said, fuck me for expecting SEGA to fix a game I paid for. Clearly consumers should be punished because putting out an update for iOS 8 compatibility is just too hard and expensive for SEGA. You know, a game they profited millions off of.

But what happened? Why are they removed?

Sonic 4: Episode I was not removed. Episode II is. Apple changed their API in iOS 7 which caused Sonic 4: Episode 2 to crash on start up. The game remained on the app store for a couple years until they announced they were officially delisting it.

[Tara]

Well, as long as they remain on Steam, which they presumably will, I'll be entirely unaffected.  They're not fantastic games I mean, but it's still nice to have them for archival purposes.  And I mean, I paid money for them so I'd like to still have them.

 

Anyway, no surprise there.  As stated above, compatibility issues mean patches and constant updates, and the fact that these games are years old now means that by now they've probably maximized the profit they will make off of them.  Any further revenue gained from the game would be negligible by comparison and would probably end up costing Sega money.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Hold on a minute. You're claiming you're not defending SEGA yet you're constantly pestering me why I never took action before and saying that it would cost SEGA too much money? Oh poor SEGA!

 

Constantly pestering you? You're the one who brought it up and I've responded to it once. I'm responding to your argument about it being just laziness and that it doesn't cost much. I've brought up what action the customer should have taken once, If you're so desperate to get a 1 up on me at least try to stick to your original argument. 

 

You said it probably doesn't cost that much to fix and this was evidenced by a fan fixing something. I'm telling you, that line of thinking is wrong. It's not complete laziness as you're trying to make it out to be, there is a huge financial cost on fixing something regardless to how small it is.

 

It isn't laziness, there is a financial factor involved in all this.

 

Also if you want the really shitty legal argument, considering that the reason the game broke was due to an OS system change, something which Sega and other companies have no obligation to put out fixes for, you either take it up with the retailer or escalate it to a small claims court. The onus here, is on the consumer, not the company.

 

Not saying it's right, stating what the facts are.

[Autosaver]

Constantly pestering you? You're the one who brought it up and I've responded to it once. I'm responding to your argument about it being just laziness and that it doesn't cost much. I've brought up what action the customer should have taken once, If you're so desperate to get a 1 up on me at least try to stick to your original argument.

Which I also stated as I quote "SEGA is just stupidly lazy and whoever is in charge has been making bad decisions."

 

Releasing a game at 720p and saying nothing can be done about it when a fan literally changed a line a code to fix it tells me SEGA is just being lazy. This was also when the game was released so as I said the argument about "Maximizing revenue" couldn't have been applied here. I also brought up the Taxman example as another reason of why SEGA is more stupid and lazy.

 

there is a huge financial cost on fixing something regardless to how small it is.

This is complete bullshit. It's not a "Huge financial cost". Cost, yes. Huge? Probably not. As I brought up before, this issue affected many other developers. For them to have a patch up within days while SEGA sidesteps the issue is completely abysmal and inexcusable.

 

 

This is a post I made almost 3 years ago, closer to Sonic 4's release.

 

 

This is a post that was made by another forum member with proof of SEGA claiming there was going to be an update rolled out soon.

 

 

something which Sega and other companies have no obligation to put out fixes for

 

Let me get this straight. An update breaks the game. SEGA says they will fix it soon so don't worry about it. They keep the game up on the store and put that it's compatible with new iPhones which are loaded with the OS by default. This game remains on the store for years until they finally just admit that they're not fixing it.

 

Am I the only one who's seeing the problem here???

 

TL:DR - SEGA sold a game and promised that a fix would be out. They broke that promise and screwed their customers. SEGA has no right to sell a broken premium mobile title and complain about the costs associated with fixing it.

 

Edit: Just for fun, SEGA was ripped to shreds by a former SEGA member with the quote, "20 years of wrong decisions". http://www.gamespot.com/articles/former-sega-exec-criticizes-company-s-20-years-of-/1100-6425464/

[Blue Blood]

Autosaver, the ONLY person who ever said that running the game at higher resolution than 720p would be detriment to the visuals was Ken Balough, who blatantly didn't have a clue what he was talking about. The explanation he gave at the time indicated he was on the right train of thought, but had zero comprehension on the situation. He was just the misinformed customer service rep we've all spoken to before.

The poor state of E2 on PC at the time of release was the fault of Dimps (or whoever managed the PC version). SEGA told them to fix it.

[baba_944]

And might I add that "SEGA" has no control of the "Sonic The Hedgehog 4" other than copyright licensing and name branding. The developers have control (Which is "Sonic Team" and "Dimps"). So don't complain to "SEGA", they had very little to do with development, complain to the developers. Sure "SEGA" have said that, but "Dimps" and "Sonic Team" were probably busy creating major games to worry about an episodic and downloadable game series.

[Rad Dudesman]

I don't think delisting helps anyone.

 

All delisting does is make it so people who enjoyed the games can't download them anymore.

[shdowhunt60]

With all due respect, making good games is what increases the value of a brand. Not acting like failures never happened.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Well I can't say I care a whole lot since even before the brokenness fiasco these were the worst versions of the Sonic 4 titles (pc version forever) but I can't say this is a bad thing. If it's too much effort to keep constantly updating something that will only break in a few months weeks again (thanksapple) that already doesn't seem to be going much of anywhere anyway, I don't see much harm.

plusagainyoushouldonlyplaythepcversions

[shdowhunt60]

You know, I have to admit I'm rather torn on this. On the one hand, I know that people like these games, and as games themselves there really isn't much terribly wrong with them.

But God... Damn... If Sonic 4 isn't an absolute monument of everything wrong with this franchise. It's a jaded and cynical projection of what the developers perceive as what the fanbase wants by making a game tries to recreate the feel Classic Sonic games in a half-hearted cosmetic senses, and absolutely none of the soul of what made these games good in the first place. I really, God to honest, wouldn't mind Sonic 4's very existence wiped from all continuity, because I seriously hate the damnable game more than anything.

Believe me, if anybody asks for my reccomendation for a core Sonic experience that represents everything that made Sonic fantastic, and had to choose something made recent, I will without hesitation recommend Freedom Planet above all else, and tell them to stay the fuck away from Sonic 4.

[SilJeff]

I tried finally finishing my iOS Sonic collection a few weeks ago and S4 Episode 2 was gone back then from the App Store in the USA

[Tornado]

And might I add that "SEGA" has no control of the "Sonic The Hedgehog 4" other than copyright licensing and name branding.

 

 

Sega has no control over the system compatibility of a game they published which was partially developed by a studio they own?

[baba_944]

Sega has no control over the system compatibility of a game they published which was partially developed by a studio they own?

You're right. I'm wrong. Thank you for the clarification. They should've told them to patch it. Thank you for correcting me. My apologies.

[Tani Coyote]

I'm mostly disappointed Sonic 4 came out before Generations. Otherwise, it would have been brilliant for them to follow up by having more Classic Sonic adventures, since Generations seemed to overall get things pretty right in comparison.

But hey, we need to remember, they missed out on the DLC scene for Generations, so they probably wouldn't have capitalized after all.

>Makes immensely hyped, successful game, the first in ages for the mainstream.

>Hype pays off.

>Doesn't follow up with anything to cash in.

I will never understand corporate decisions.

[Autosaver]

Well, Sonic 4 was pretty bad so having the bad game come first and not have Sonic's reputation tarnished after was a better idea. The Classic gameplay in Generations while also not actually being Classic is more fun than Sonic 4.

 

Generations not getting DLC is pretty bullshit. Technically Sonic Lost World didn't get any either as the DLC levels in that game were originally planned to be there from the start.

[Tani Coyote]

I mostly just don't get why nobody was screaming, "Hey, if we're making a sequel to the first three games, shouldn't we play them over and over for a few weeks to get a feel of what the 4th would be like?"

I know Sonic's all about variety and change each game but holy lord, the classic trilogy is a holy grail. They went too far changing that.