Tornado Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Speaking of reports, can members you are suspicious of immediately find out about your reporting them? If so, I think reports should not be exposed for them to see, as I think I reported someone once and they hounded me on Skype for it. I'm honestly not quite sure what you mean here. Rephrase, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Not only are all reports fully anonymous, but any PM's you send us (unless otherwise necessary, which is usually only ever the case with Marketplace affairs) are confidential and will only be shared between the member(s) sending the PM and the staff. Just pointing this out so that people know that the report button isn't the only way to make us aware of an issue. Most of you are aware of this already, but I don't feel enough people utilize it enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoko/葉子 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 If I may add further, I think we should be careful about how sarcasm is used towards each other. I mean, it is a line of text, how in the name of Hel are we supposed to recognize the intended reading of the comments? There are people in the world who do have difficulty recognizing when people are joking, I am one of them. Seeing people make rude comments only for them to say, "it was a joke," when I have struggled with it my entire life is quite honestly insulting. People have done to each other on here and it shows a lack of respect... The "you can't take a joke" crap won't save you here. People honestly don't always overcome it and messing with them is in a word, "rude." @Tornado, I was worried about reports being public for all to see. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kiah Posted May 26, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2015 I haven't read much of this topic due to being at work (I'll do so later) so please excuse me if I'm repeating what has already been said as I'm just now able to give my take. Better late than never, I guess. Speaking of repetition, I feel the reporting and staff issue has been addressed adequately so I feel there is no need for me to be repetitive which I would be at this point. Besides, I have a TON of other things to say about the initial issue at hand as I'm angry and I tend to write a lot when I'm angry. That said (as what I'm about to say pertains to everyone here at the SSMB regardless of one's position): Respect: to act in a way which shows that you are aware of (someone's rights, wishes, etc.) to treat or deal with (something that is good or valuable) in a proper way Seems like some here have forgotten what that word is and what it is all about in addition to the failure of demonstrating it. In my opinion this is the root of the problem: a lack of respect, which goes in hand with a lack of maturity, tolerance, and self-control. We have members here that not only disrespect others, but they go as far as antagonizing them to put them down with rude and sarcastic remarks. Even bullying and teasing. It is even worse when a ton of members join in on this with ganging up on others. Every single member here is a human being with feelings and a natural desire and expectation to be respected; I have no idea why people seem to forget that basic undeniable fact and act accordingly in a respectful manner towards everyone. People being rude and obnoxious towards one another because they don't agree with them is something that's so unnecessary. I really don't understand why it is so hard to respect each one's thoughts, opinions, and the very person themselves. You don't have to express disagreement and dislike with insults and talking down to others. Generally speaking, do you really not care that your words can and does hurt people? We don't even have to like everyone here but everyone that is a member of this forum is deserving of respect; there is absolutely NO exception to that. And if for some reason you are incapable of showing respect to someone then simply ignore them. Optimism can only stand up against against so much cynicism, negativity, and disrespect, hence the atmosphere we have around here as of late. There is just way too much insulting and put-downs and lack of common decency around here and not only pollutes the atmosphere of the entire forum but it can and does bring down the morale of anyone here. It has gotten so bad to the point where members want to take time off away from here to take a break. Then there are those that are so frustrated and fed up that they don't even come back. Look at all the members that have left in the past few hours alone. Not to mention those that have left previously for the same reasons. It was suggested that this was happening partly due to the lack of Sonic news, which I thought wasn't a legit excuse in the first place. There is no legit excuse to be disrespectful towards others whatsoever. I understand being frustrated on the matter but a lack of Sonic news has nothing to do with it. There is absolutely no legit excuse for this type of behavior whatsoever. Some seem to think that they can do whatever they want and say whatever you want and think it's okay. Well, you can't. Simply put, if you don't have anything nice or even decent to say, then you shouldn't say anything at all. I feel that if you can't be respectful of others' opinions on a forum then you shouldn't be here, let alone on the Internet interacting with others. Generally speaking, just because you disagree or dislike or don't understand even what someone said doesn't give you a "green light" to be disrespectful and insulting and definitely not throwing temper tantrums when you don't like something or when something doesn't go your way. You can disagree with something as well as expressing any grievances without being rude about it. We don't have to necessarily like or agree with something someone says, but we should respect what one has to say without harassing them or making them feel bad or stupid as well as embarrassing them for sharing their thoughts and opinions on this forum, which they should freely be able to do as long as their thoughts and opinions are expressed within the rules here on the forum, no matter how obnoxious, out of line or wrong it seems to be. If what is said is not within the SSMB rules, that is what the "Report" button is for: for Staff to take care of it; not to antagonize the member at fault or to make matters worse with instigating or harassing which doesn't help at all but makes matters worse. Speaking of Staff, while we could and probably should take greater action and be more strict in regards to enforcing the rules, I don't think it shouldn't be all on us as we can't force you to respect your fellow members. All of us are at the age where everyone is accountable for their own actions and should definitely take responsibility for what one does and what one says in addition to being sure to following the rules that they agreed to abide to upon joining the SSMB. Our job is to make sure the rules of the SSMB are enforced, not telling members to display common decency and respect towards one another. That seriously should be a given. That's not to say we don't make mistakes as we definitely do. In line with not liking and agreeing with what others say that's not to say we can't disagree with one another as that would be absurd in expecting such as well as totally unrealistic. Therefore, it's okay to dislike something. It is okay to disagree with something and someone. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with debating either. Even criticism is okay in my opinion. Now there is a difference between an insult and criticism, as they are not the same. Insults are just bad all around where as criticism can be a good thing. I don't have a problem with criticism in itself, and I welcome it even, as I see it as means to bring something to my attention that I was absolutely unaware of, possibly change my stance on a matter with a different point of view, or even teach me something. The problem is that criticism as well as disagreement and expressing dislike is often presented in a way around here that is antagonizing, contains insults and lacks tact, and leaves one feeling bad and/or stupid, as if they lack common sense. I know I wrote a lot here, but I am extremely frustrated on the matter. I personally really don't want to start acting in a more strict manner as a moderator but now I'm really starting to feel as if I don't have a choice. In the meantime we are just going to need everyone's cooperation in reporting those that aren't following the rules as we cannot and do not see and catch every infraction of the rules that occurs here. Especially in the status updates with people being needlessly hostile to others. So do that, and most importantly, make sure you are not part of the problem by adding fuel to the fire, make sure you are being respectful towards one another and make sure you are following the rules we have established here. I really hope that this negative, condescending, antagonizing attitude significantly tones down around here as I am personally beyond sick and tired of it. I'll say this again: We need to respect one another, despite differences in our thoughts and opinions, ethics and morals even, and think about how our words and actions may and will impact others, be it positive or negative, including feeding off of the negative actions of others which definitely makes matters worse. If that happens, it surely would make the SSMB a more fun, welcoming and positive place as none of these incidents would even be happening if we simply showed respect to one another. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsTellsTales Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Before I even begin let me just say I try very hard to make this post acceptable. Keep in mind I am still little upset from yesterday but I did my best to keep it in check here. This is from my own perspective. I not sure how to describe it but I strongly feel that some people in these debates speak in a very mean tone with no compassion whatsoever. First thing in making things better is to act the way you want to be treated which is hopefully being nice person. Second when making a post in a debate or argument make sure to read what you wrote as if you were the other person. If it makes you feel bad or sound harsh or mean then you probably need to change it. Third if somebody wrote something harsh mean tone to you then it may be best to ignore it. You probably want to defend yourself but it should be left to mod people or ignore it. Fourth do not encourage bad behavior but instead guide the behavior to be better than. Fifth try to be peaceful and avoid conflict and try to be nice to make better atmosphere on. I like things to be peaceful. Unfortunately people actions speak something else. I feel people who are more sensitive should not be on here that includes myself. I hope that I not offend anybody with this post here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tani Coyote Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 With regards to the Ethics topic: I made it not to pick on Autosaver or cause drama, but because I was genuinely quite concerned with some of the logic that was being used to justify various actions. To try and steer it away from the earlier issue, I encouraged discussion of whatever commercial scandal could be found. Regardless, it quickly derailed back into what prompted the topic, and I agree with Carbo's decision to lock it on that basis. I'd be interested in reviving it at a later time when this incident isn't as fresh in our minds. But for now, keeping it locked really is the best decision. Now, with regards to the statuses: Memes and jokes are pretty common on SSMB. I didn't see anything blatantly insulting Autosaver, so any statuses I saw I didn't take issue with. What I did do was discuss with the other staff if we should shut discussion in the statuses down or not, since statuses have always been a grayer area for moderation. Now, you might say that there were insults and the like in the status comments. But that's the thing - to see those, I have to open each status. When statuses are being spit out like machine gun bullets, we're busy with other things, and we're not being paid to patrol every corner of the boards, the Report button is absolutely critical. If one wants to talk about fair moderation, I'd counter with discussing fair membership: is it fair to expect moderators to spend every moment of their day looking for wrongdoing? Actually, that's the thing: one of the first rules I had to understand when taking the position was to NOT do that. I would browse as I always would and take action if I saw something wrong, and respond to reports as they came in. Like the police force, we will take action if we see an issue on our daily "patrol" as you could say, but ultimately a lot of our effectiveness hinges on your taking the initiative to report things. The police don't enter every home to make sure no crimes are being committed. You have to call 911 (or the equivalent in your area). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamboCat Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Again though, this wasn't just mods reading the thread, they were actively posting :V as far as we were seeing, mods already WERE in action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 In my opinion the "no outside drama" rule can only go on for so long. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not asking for everything that happens outside of SSMB to be punished, but I just think certain things shouldn't be excusable. I've been bullied by a member here before outside the forums. And I know a fair few members in particular do shit they know they'd get into trouble for but they purposefully do it outside the forums so they get away with it. This is just a suggestion of course. I just think more care should be given, especially in regards to those who bully other members outside the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 In my opinion the "no outside drama" rule can only go on for so long. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not asking for everything that happens outside of SSMB to be punished, but I just think certain things shouldn't be excusable. I've been bullied by a member here before outside the forums. And I know a fair few members in particular do shit they know they'd get into trouble for but they purposefully do it outside the forums so they get away with it. This is just a suggestion of course. I just think more care should be given, especially in regards to those who bully other members outside the forums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Hero Ike Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Memes and jokes are pretty common on SSMB. I didn't see anything blatantly insulting Autosaver, so any statuses I saw I didn't take issue with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tani Coyote Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 There was one I saw, but it was deleted and remade rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Hero Ike Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 That's another thing. When you see an offending post, I highly suggest you take a screencap. You can submit it in your report and/or a PM to the staff. That way if someone is savvy enough to delete an offending status or post before any of us see it, we have a record and a huge burden of proof falls on the suspected offender to prove you have some awesome Photoshop skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoko/葉子 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I know this is cliche, but it still has a point. Remember the old saying, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? We should know that one and use it by now. Or treat others the way you would want to be treated. If you treat others like dirt, others will treat you like dirt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I would have, but unfortunately I don't have a computer to screencap anything. I've been stuck with my Wii U's Internet browser for a long time. I can PM you I guess but I don't want to start something again. I probably missed this in the earlier posts here but, can you report status messages? IPB's current implementation of statuses makes moderating them a chore, so no, there is no way to report a status. But clicking the date and time on a status will take you to the permalink where you can c/p the status to us in a report or a PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Meow Posted May 26, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2015 I don't think I've really hidden my feelings about this site in the past. I rarely post here now because of the overall vibe of the community. I was never really all that active in the Sonic subforums after a while because I believe that is where all the toxicity sort of started from, but it was mostly self contained and to a degree I could "understand" it...or at least it somewhat made sense. Its a polarizing series with a lot of passionate fans and while I never agreed with the hostility presented in the arguments that happened in there it was unfortunately bound to happen. But then I noticed around the time of the status updates coming around that the site began to go in a more 'cliquey' direction and I've noticed a very clear sense of elitism that started to pervade this board. I am not sure why the two went hand in hand as such, but it's been a growing problem since that point and has seeped out of the Sonic sub forum and into the rest of the board (where I tended to post more). I am not advocating for the destruction of the status updates, they're pretty much all I use now to post inconsequential garbage when I am lurking around and have something stupid I want to post. After all the same rules that apply to the board should apply there too right? The thing is if you have an opinion that contradicts even slightly the majority of this board you are basically ripe for the picking from a few members here, on and off site. The worst part is I've seen them get away with it time and time again. I definitely think there are just certain subgroups/individuals of the forum that whether we like it or not have had their asshole streaks just kind of accepted as oh that's just the way they are. I am not really okay with that, it feels like we've given free passes to those who have been here a while and are liked by a large portion of the community. It's a tricky subject though, I was modding on what I consider a now defunct site where we let someone who had a small following/group of friends pretty much tear the whole team apart through the ensuing drama after punishment was given for long standing harassment. It inevitably led to some terrible lapses of judgement and a few of us ended up leaving because we were just tired of it. The point is I don't understand the need to constantly be sarcastic and rude to everyone else, it gives a general atmosphere here of being at each other's throats constantly. It's less of a good time atmosphere and more-so one of aggression. I think the topic in question that spawned this whole discussion was a really weird boiling point to this whole thing. But as it was pointed out this isn't the first time this has happened here to spawn pretty much this exact same discussion! Also people blaming things on the lack of Sonic related news I feel is misguided too - it is a scapegoat to excuse poor behaviour and it's really sad to see that being used as well. Also I've seen it thrown around a lot too in the past to grow a thicker skin, which is what I feel is just the easy way to tell other people "I'm offended you took offence to me being offensive". I don't think we need to baby anybody and learning how to deal with assholes is unfortunately just a part of life, but...seriously come on. Being decent is not hard! There really is no reason to intentionally be an asshole to somebody with the intention of tearing them down. That said, the other side of the coin is that mods need to be held accountable too. Another point learned from experience. Having the sense that the other side is above the rules is also terrible. There is a lot of blame here in this very topic about how the involved parties, on the members side, have handled the situation poorly but yet I still think there was a lot of wrongdoing in the way it was handled on the mod side too. On the whole I think you all do a generally bang up job of moderating, and we're all human and prone to mistakes - but again this isn't the first time this debate has come up regarding the mod teams of this board. I don't want to say too much because again I know from experience its a tough gig and you can tend to take a lot of flak from members which definitely builds up over time, but maybe being more mindful of the way situations are resolved would go a long way with the current climate of the board. I hate criticizing the mods for stuff like this because as a whole they have to deal with the board as a whole, which isn't in a good state as far as the community goes, but I do feel we're all accountable on some level here. And just to be clear - I am not proclaiming to be some sort of paragon, holier than thou perfect spirit here. I've definitely been a part of the problem in the past. The thing is we're all a part of the problem but the good thing is that being part of the solution is pretty easy. It's pretty easy to try and be more kind and empathetic to the fact that there is another human being sitting on the other side of the screen. The way we conduct ourselves can have a really big impact on how a space feels - as words have meaning and do have the potential to cause serious hurt. That's pretty much all I have to say. Apologies if I've over stepped any bounds and basically added some redundancy to this whole thing but I had to get it off my chest all the same. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoko/葉子 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I'd also like to add that it feels kinda rude that I see a lot of PD threads on here where people ask for help and advice and they are usually ignored. We are supposed to be a community, not ignoring people we don't know well. I mean, I remember that Kuzu made a PD thread not long ago where we could help each other out and it seems we have no intention of helping one another in tough times. This is a social forum, there are going to be people different from you, that does not mean you have to shut them out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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