Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, VEDJ-F said:

Oh, definitely agree on that matter then. Here's what I make of it;

Team Sonic/Hero - Knuckles, although he still gets more than most of the cast and only goes off the pace because Sonic and Tails are a nigh legendary duo.

Team Dark - Omega, but at least he got in on the fun in Runners recently.

Team Rose - Big, although lately he's been partnered off with another individual moreso (Sonic Colours DS had him and Amy as Aquarium Park's friendly character, Sonic Runners has him and Cream away from Amy in Team Easy). 

Team Chaotix - Charmy. He has no counter-points.

Team Babylon - Storm, but he's arguably the most balanced of the third wheels by having developed dynamics with both his team mates as well (it's basically the one thing I think the Babylon Rogues do better than the other teams; proper balance between all three members). He still got left out here though.

Team...I dunno - Silver and Blaze don't really have a third wheel per se. I guess one could say Marine, but she was a one-shot. Maybe Cream will double up as this in time? Eh. *shrug*

Yea. I feel with Knuckles it works because he's supposed to be the outlier between him, Sonic & Tails; its just that he doesn't get as much focus since Sonic is the main character :V

Everyone else is spot on. I feel the team dynamic works for some and not others.

[Komodin]

21 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Oh, definitely agree on that matter then. Here's what I make of it;

Team Sonic/Hero - Knuckles, although he still gets more than most of the cast and only goes off the pace because Sonic and Tails are a nigh legendary duo.

Team Dark - Omega, but at least he got in on the fun in Runners recently.

Team Rose - Big, although lately he's been partnered off with another individual moreso (Sonic Colours DS had him and Amy as Aquarium Park's friendly character, Sonic Runners has him and Cream away from Amy in Team Easy). 

Team Chaotix - Charmy. He has no counter-points.

Team Babylon - Storm, but he's arguably the most balanced of the third wheels by having developed dynamics with both his team mates as well (it's basically the one thing I think the Babylon Rogues do better than the other teams; proper balance between all three members). He still got left out here though.

Team...I dunno - Silver and Blaze don't really have a third wheel per se. I guess one could say Marine, but she was a one-shot. Maybe Cream will double up as this in time? Eh. *shrug*

So, in other words, when it comes to the whole "arranging characters into teams" thing, Sonic Team didn't really think things all the way through and the overall balance between the three members suffers as a result?

[Kaotic Kanine]

43 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Team...I dunno - Silver and Blaze don't really have a third wheel per se. I guess one could say Marine, but she was a one-shot. Maybe Cream will double up as this in time? Eh. *shrug*

I'd rather they bring Marine back to act as Blaze and Silver's "third wheel" and keep Cream as Amy's sidekick/partner.

Cream was mostly created to be Amy's "number two", to act as the Tails to Amy's Sonic, and that aspect of her character is one of, if not the, only thing keeping Cream relevant to the franchise. I already hate how badly Amy and Cream's friendship had been botched due to shit handling, how SEGA has been distancing them lately, and how Sticks was created instead of importing Cream; if Cream were to be officially dumped from Team Rose and made a sidekick/"third wheel" to Blaze and Silver, well, that better not fucking happen. I mean, was anyone happy with how Free Riders had Vector, the leader of Team Chaotix, leave his own team to act as Team Rose's "third wheel" instead of Big? Would anyone be happy if Omega or even Tails were to join an entirely different team, even if it's strictly temporary? 

Not only that but Marine has some honest potential as a character and, if you ask me, functions as a sidekick for Blaze much better (especially if that "hidden power" of hers turns out to be hydrokinesis).

Sorry for this pseudo-rant. I'm just beyond sick of these characters constantly getting mishandled and wasted.

[DaN]

 

I think you're reading too much into it... The team "thing" derived from a gameplay gimmick in Sonic Heroes and now fans abuse it with every other character later introduced ? Team Sonic is the original trio, we're ok with this, but depending on the iteration you're on, Knuckles sometimes is a loner who spends most of his time guarding the mater emerald, in some other games he's a dumb and the master emerald seems to be forgotten. He is also "part" of the Chaotix in a Way. What about Amy? Most of the times she's simply with Sonic Tails and Knuckles, forming a team that is not   a team of 3 anymore, but in some other games she has it's own team (Big is even replaced by Vector in Free Riders). I'd not dig too much into this matter if I were you. Pseudo Teams are just there for gameplay or plot purpose, and if we talk about plot... Well, the only real continuity we have in this franchise is in the comics (sometimes). the games are pretty messed up 

[Your Vest Friend]

53 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

I'd rather they bring Marine back to act as Blaze and Silver's "third wheel" and keep Cream as Amy's sidekick/partner.

Cream was mostly created to be Amy's "number two", to act as the Tails to Amy's Sonic, and that aspect of her character is one of, if not the, only thing keeping Cream relevant to the franchise. I already hate how badly Amy and Cream's friendship had been botched due to shit handling, how SEGA has been distancing them lately, and how Sticks was created instead of importing Cream; if Cream were to be officially dumped from Team Rose and made a sidekick/"third wheel" to Blaze and Silver, well, that better not fucking happen. I mean, was anyone happy with how Free Riders had Vector, the leader of Team Chaotix, leave his own team to act as Team Rose's "third wheel" instead of Big? Would anyone be happy if Omega or even Tails were to join an entirely different team, even if it's strictly temporary? 

Not only that but Marine has some honest potential as a character and, if you ask me, functions as a sidekick for Blaze much better (especially if that "hidden power" of hers turns out to be hydrokinesis).

Sorry for this pseudo-rant. I'm just beyond sick of these characters constantly getting mishandled and wasted.

Uh, no, I wasn't mad about it at least. The game made it clear right from the start that they were only a team because of circumstances, not a long-term dealio. So you still have your established dynamics in place while being allowed to explore others. 

My suggestion was that she could serve both roles...but being Amy's sidekick in the past has not really saved her from being relegated down the totem pole of importance. Amy has been mostly appearing as part of a unit with the heroes recently, with scant references to her relationship with Cream. In fact, they used to be essentially compared to sisters like how Sonic and Tails are essentially brothers, but that hasn't been reflected for a long time now, even in games where they did work together. I don't see any harm in giving her a new niche to fill. 

[Kaotic Kanine]

41 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

My suggestion was that she could serve both roles...but being Amy's sidekick in the past has not really saved her from being relegated down the totem pole of importance. Amy has been mostly appearing as part of a unit with the heroes recently, with scant references to her relationship with Cream. In fact, they used to be essentially compared to sisters like how Sonic and Tails are essentially brothers, but that hasn't been reflected for a long time now, even in games where they did work together. I don't see any harm in giving her a new niche to fill. 

Well that's what I mean! I want Cream to be moved back up the "totem pole of importance" and placed even higher, which her partnership with Amy can easily accomplish given Amy's status as a main character, and I want that sisterhood between Amy and Cream back. I HATE how their relationship has been seemingly devolved to being "occasional friends" when their relationship was once played up to be the female counterpart to Sonic and Tails (sibling-like), not to mention there is a lot of untapped potential in their dynamic that can benefit both characters (Cream can influence Amy to be more protective and more of a role model while Amy can influence Cream to stand up to challenges and become stronger). I hate how Cream has essentially been demoted to a "cameo character" along the likes of Big after initially being played up as a rather central character (Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating and being biased but Cream, at the very least, had a notable role in every game from 2002 to 2005 and she was a member of the core cast in Sonic X, even if she didn't do much in that show <.< ). I'm just saying, the way SEGA has been handling Cream's character for the longest time is immensely frustrating (to me, at least) and I'm begging for them to improve that before it's too late.

...Granted, it's a similar if not the same deal with every other character. And I guess it truly wouldn't hurt to have Cream serve as a member of Blaze and Silver's "team" in addition to being Amy's sidekick as being given a new niche is important, so long it doesn't overtake Cream's role as Amy's sidekick...

Sorry to derail the topic like this, I'll just get back to talking about the actual game

[Kuzu]

Cream hasn't been relevant as Amy's sidekick in years, I doubt Sonic Team even remember that about her considering her last major appearance Amy treated her like craaaaaap.

[Dejimon11]

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Cream hasn't been relevant as Amy's sidekick in years, I doubt Sonic Team even remember that about her considering her last major appearance Amy treated her like craaaaaap.

Wait what? 

[FriendBot]

Just now, Dejimon11 said:

Wait what? 

Free Riders called.

[Dr. Detective]

14 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Oh wait, I'm mega slow on this.

Uh, thankfully, I do have additional discussion I can throw in; even from Heroes, Charmy seemed to be at a disadvantage compared to his teammates. Like, even though he's just as much as part of the team, he's not treated equally in importance. 

He wasn't? It seemed like all of them were treated the same way by the narrative. All of them fought the same bosses and went through the same levels. The only things that stood out as character moments that propelled anything forward was Vector being the only one to figure out Eggman's identity. I guess Charmy beating the crap out of Eggman at the end is sort of remembered. Espio's "Ninja Power" gets talked about a lot too but I'm not sure how relevant that is towards anything. 

I feel the result of his getting shafted in his later appearances is just due to popularity sadly. It especially makes me angry here though since there doesn't seem to be any reason why he isn't here. 

[Your Vest Friend]

 

4 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Cream hasn't been relevant as Amy's sidekick in years, I doubt Sonic Team even remember that about her considering her last major appearance Amy treated her like craaaaaap.

I think it was referenced in the end Birthday scene in Generations, at least. because Blaze talks to Silver instead. 

[Kaotic Kanine]

9 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Cream hasn't been relevant as Amy's sidekick in years, I doubt Sonic Team even remember that about her considering her last major appearance Amy treated her like craaaaaap.

Ugh, don't remind me. Honestly, I prefer to think that Free Riders is completely non-canon because of how everyone (sans Tails and Cream) were extreme jerks to each other. The fact that it's functionally among the worst Sonic games, no thanks to the Kinect, greatly helps with that. Which is a shame because the game has one of the very few instances of Tails and Cream interacting, as small as it was. Ditto for other instances where Amy was more than a little rude with Cream as seen in Battle and Rush (except in those cases I consider the games canon, just not Amy's behavior within them).

I know Cream hasn't been relevant as Amy's sidekick in years and I know of SEGA's godawful desire to distance them... I just want them to be sister-like friends again and I don't approve of SEGA "disowning" that sisterhood. I mean, what if SEGA decided to have Shadow and Rouge, one of the best developed friendships in the franchise, no longer be friends and distance them? Are we just going to accept that? Or what if SEGA decided to have Espio become an independent character; have him leave the Chaotix and have a pirate gecko or something take his place in the Chaotix for whatever bizarre reason? I know for certain VEDJ-F wouldn't approve of that at all. So why is it okay that Amy and Cream are no longer BFF's despite being played up as sister-like, the female counterpart to Sonic and Tails' friendship? Actually, don't answer that, I know why: no one cares about Cream at all. Hardly anyone ever has cared about her and why should they. She's always been a "stupid" and "pointless" character, why try and do anything productive with her like be the sidekick to a main character. It'd be best to just downgrade Cream into a super minor character and have a jungle badger become Amy's sidekick instead. I see how it is. (I deeply apologize if I'm taking this too personally and being antagonistic to anyone. Please know that my intention with this is to make a point, not call anyone out. And I extra deeply apologize to VEDJ-F if my allegory involving Espio offends you. Again, it felt like the best way to make a point).

[Kuzu]

Uh....well, I mean its not like its a secret that this series is really shitty at handling its characters lol.

[Kaotic Kanine]

Indeed. SEGA really needs to hire more competent character writers (or whatever you call people who handle the characters) and need to let go of any "restrictions" they enforce that may be the cause of all this mishandling. It's completely ridiculous that this franchise has so many characters, each one with their own devoted fan bases, yet only two or three of them are handled decently.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'm not offended, I do get what the point is. 

I think there's a small snag in the argument though; Shadow and Rouge's existences have been intertwined since the beginning, so it's harder to pull that sort of thing off (note harder, not impossible; Sonic Rivals 2 had them going against each other not as friends, although that seems to have been disregarded from the canon so it didn't happen. They also only showed up together in Generations during the cheer, not during the party scenes). While Vector came about in concepts separately and Espio broke off on his own in Sonic the Fighters, they worked together in Chaotix and that made them remade into being a close-knit unit from Heroes onwards, only being on their own for missions very temporarily. Amy had been around nine years before Cream, and even her re-debut in Sonic Adventure had her on her own. Even Sonic Advance 2 didn't have Cream close with Amy, it was more her and Sonic. The span where the sisterhood was put was Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, two years, so unfortunately it's probably not as much in 'sacred' status as other dynamics. 

[Kaotic Kanine]

26 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm not offended, I do get what the point is. 

I think there's a small snag in the argument though; Shadow and Rouge's existences have been intertwined since the beginning, so it's harder to pull that sort of thing off (note harder, not impossible; Sonic Rivals 2 had them going against each other not as friends, although that seems to have been disregarded from the canon so it didn't happen. They also only showed up together in Generations during the cheer, not during the party scenes). While Vector came about in concepts separately and Espio broke off on his own in Sonic the Fighters, they worked together in Chaotix and that made them remade into being a close-knit unit from Heroes onwards, only being on their own for missions very temporarily. Amy had been around nine years before Cream, and even her re-debut in Sonic Adventure had her on her own. Even Sonic Advance 2 didn't have Cream close with Amy, it was more her and Sonic. The span where the sisterhood was put was Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, two years, so unfortunately it's probably not as much in 'sacred' status as other dynamics. 

Hm, very good point. Makes me wish Cream had come into existence when Sonic Adventure first came out, preferably having a part in Amy's story (albeit a small one to not risk messing up the story somehow, I don't know), and that Amy was part of the plot for Sonic Advance 2 but alas. I would go on a tangent on how, regardless of how the dynamic isn't as sacred as the others, SEGA shouldn't have abandoned that dynamic after establishing it and utilizing it for two years (doubly if we're counting Sonic X) but it's already been agreed that SEGA is shit at handling their characters so I'll save it  Besides, I don't want to derail this topic any further as none of this has anything to do with M&S Rio. Not unless we're talking about the possibility of Amy and Cream having a "Special Victory Animation" but, as I stated, the chances of those animations continuing are slim given the huge amount of characters to work with, in addition to what seems to be small amounts of "team sports" to allow the animations.

[Shadowlax]

On 11/14/2015 at 11:02 PM, Dr. Chaotix said:

 

 

 

On 1/1/2016 at 2:26 PM, Komodin said:

So, in other words, when it comes to the whole "arranging characters into teams" thing, Sonic Team didn't really think things all the way through and the overall balance between the three members suffers as a result?

Yeah, why on yuji naka's green hill zone does shadow need a team... ever. Team dark was always the worst idea. Team dark shouldn't have lasted longer than sonic adventure 2

 

I'm not offended, I do get what the point is. 

I think there's a small snag in the argument though; Shadow and Rouge's existences have been intertwined since the beginning, so it's harder to pull that sort of thing off .

I don't think it would be that hard, I think you might be vastly over estimating how much people would care about rouge in relation to shadow. 

[Your Vest Friend]

5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think it would be that hard, I think you might be vastly over estimating how much people would care about rouge in relation to shadow. 

To be quite frank, I think that one is entirely out of the fans' hands. 

[Gabz Girl]

Wait wait wait hold on a sec. Amy treats Cream badly in Free Riders? O__O What does she say or do exactly?

WTF SEGAAAAA!

[Your Vest Friend]

I haven't even played Free Riders and I know that much. She's mostly just yelling at...well, pretty much everyone. 

[Dejimon11]

Free Riders story is pretty garbage to be perfectly honest. I mean for goodness sakes Shadow and Rouge acted like antagonist for pete sakes.

[Marcello]

Shadow and Rouge were great. They should be a bit more antagonistic.

[Kuzu]

Yea, I don't mind Shadow & Rouge being antagonistic because they...actually are kind of assholes for the most part.

[DarkLight]

Meanwhile, Boom Shadow's assholery continues to mystify and disgust most people.

[Kuzu]

See, here's the difference. In Free Riders, Shadow's dickery is just him boasting about how much he's the best, and just being competitive. Because ya know, its a competition.

Boom Shadow's problem isn't so much he's a dick, its that's he's a dick and nothing else. He doesn't do much of anything whenever he shows up, so he really doesn't stand out as his much better established main series counterpart. I would like Shadow's Boom incarnation a lot more if they actually bothered to do something with him.