Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice

[TeamCinas]

Why are we all so skeptical about Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice?

Just because the word "Sonic Boom" is in it?

[Forte-Metallix]

Why are we all so skeptical about Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice?

Just because the word "Sonic Boom" is in it?

No.

We're skeptical because it doesn't look like much of an improvement over Shattered Crystal.

And given Sega's stupid habit of rushing games out before they're finished, and Boom's tarnished reputation as a whole, there's not much to be optimistic about.

[CottonCandy]

I think it has something to with the reputation of the last two games, especially with the wii u one. Not to mention Fire and Ice, so far, doesn't look like a amazing improvement of the first game. Personally, I don't think Fire and Ice will be an awful game but I don't think it'll turn an 180 of Sonic Boom's poor reputation. 

[Tara]

Why are we all so skeptical about Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice?

Just because the word "Sonic Boom" is in it?

No.  The Boom handle has a lot of promise and a lot of potential, but Sega so far hasn't really capitalized on any of it.  The problem is that Shattered Crystal was a mediocre title at best with a plethora of grating problems, and the gameplay videos and information we've received thus far has not shown any improvement upon the core mechanics and gameplay engine, which Fire & Ice shares.  It looks exactly the same as its predecessor but with modestly different artistic style and the inclusion of Amy.  That's why we are skeptical about it.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Another reason we're a bit pensive I think is the lack of marketing on the game. Since the initial announcement Sega have not been taking this game to many (if any) events and generally not talked much about it. It's like they aren't putting much effort into making us want it really.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I don't get this "it doesn't improve upon the core gameplay" thing. I don't recall there actually being anything wrong with that. I thought it was the level design and medal collection and padding that was the problem, which they've pretty much confirmed is being done away with. I don't remember having trouble controlling the characters or performing any of their actions.

I refuse to believe there would be nearly, if any of the same criticism had the Boom license not been associated with the game. Just change everything into the main canon, and slap "Rush" where "Boom" used to be, and you're done.

[Dejimon11]

Another reason we're a bit pensive I think is the lack of marketing on the game. Since the initial announcement Sega have not been taking this game to many (if any) events and generally not talked much about it. It's like they aren't putting much effort into making us want it really.

I guess at this point it's gotten to the point where instead of treating it as a regular game they're treating it as "licensed game cash in"

[Diogenes]

I don't get this "it doesn't improve upon the core gameplay" thing. I don't recall there actually being anything wrong with that. I thought it was the level design and medal collection and padding that was the problem, which they've pretty much confirmed is being done away with. I don't remember having trouble controlling the characters or performing any of their actions.

No, the core gameplay was still pretty bad. Not an '06/RoL disaster, but dull and stilted and really not worth playing. Adding Amy and a fire/ice gimmick is not nearly enough to make it worth it.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

No, the core gameplay was still pretty bad. Not an '06 disaster, but dull and stilted and really not worth playing. Adding Amy and a fire/ice gimmick is not nearly enough to make it worth it.

Yeah, see I said I don't remember the core gameplay being bad because I legitimately don't understand what the problems are and you answering that with "it's because it's bad" only shows up as a way of telling me I'm right in a really self-critical way on your part

Edited August 15, 2015 by Shaddy

[Diogenes]

It's past midnight and I'm going off half-memories of the demo so I really can't go into great detail at the moment, but as I remember it everyone was slow, everyone's special moves were very stop-and-go and had really shallow uses, combat was mostly homing attacking (you couldn't even jump into guys, right?)...there was no energy to it, no flow, no excitement, everything just felt perfunctory and nothing more.

[Tara]

I've mentioned this before but it's very incorrect to say that the title would have been received better if not for the Boom title or if it had been labeled as a Sonic Rush sequel.  The two don't play alike at all.  Yes, the level design and collectibles were a problem, but the actual gameplay engine was just really bad.  Not as bad '06, mind you, but it certainly wasn't very fun to use.  Here's a few bullet points:

1) All the characters are notably slower.

2) The "boost" is more of a visual effect than it is an actual boost, because you don't really gain any speed as a result of it.

3) Excessive allocation of buttons.  As an example, Sonic has a homing attack but also has a move that mimics the homing attack but is capable of breaking boxes.  It makes no sense why we can't just have one move that breaks both boxes and destroys enemies.  It comes across as desperately attempting to make it look like the game has so many different mechanics to offer, when it's really doesn't.

4) Character abilities are made necessary in the worst possible way.  For example, there will be one section every so often where you'll have to change to Sticks, just so you can destroy an object with her boomerang.  But after that's all said and done, there's really nothing keeping you from switching back to Sonic or whomever you prefer to play as, because that's really all you needed her for.  It interrupts the flow of game just to make the other characters seem purposeful.

5) Response times are slightly, but noticeably, delayed.  Particularly for jumping.

6) Characters are extremely floaty feeling.

Sonic Rush didn't have perfect physics, but it was quick, easy to learn, responsive, and felt natural to hold.  Also, the boost had an immediately noticeable effect and also served a purpose for combat as well as speed.  The boost in Shattered Crystal doesn't destroy enemies, so it's neither fast nor powerful, so it's essentially useless.  Rush also does a marginally better job implementing multiple character abilities, even if both Sonic and Blaze play largely identically.  They both have a noticeably different feel to their mechanics, whereas in Shattered Crystal, everyone feels exactly the same at their core.  It's only the individual mechanics, which can only be put to good use at select locations that are scattered sparsely throughout the map, where they really differentiate.

Shattered Crystal isn't a complete trainwreck, but it certainly doesn't play even close to Rush anymore than the Game.com version of Sonic Jam plays like the Saturn version. (Although Shattered Crystal isn't as bad as that, either)

Edited August 15, 2015 by Tara

[TeamCinas]

Um...  doesn't improve upon the core gameplay? Have you even seen actual gameplay, or even hear about the gameplay aspects? (if that's even the right term, correct me if not)

Unlike Shattered Crystal, this game- like all classic Sonic games- have a linear path with basically takes you from point A to point B. This was said during some interviews and articles. The extra stuff- such as the hidden collectibles- are no longer necessary to progress from one level to another.

But that's just the gameplay, though. Everything else is a WHOLE another story. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

Um...  doesn't improve upon the core gameplay? Have you even seen actual gameplay, or even hear about the gameplay aspects?

I've been in this fanbase long enough to know that developers like to say things.

[FriendBot]

I've been in this fanbase long enough to know that developers like to say things.

Well it wouldn't make much sense to say BS when the expectations for this game is pretty much rock-bottom or probably better than Shattered Crystal, depends on who you talk to.

But I don't know about you guys but I don't think people like Aaron, Mat Kraemer and etc. that says that they took in the advice, I'm pretty sure they've did listen to it. I mean, it isn't the first time with Sonic, Sonic Team took the reception of the Boost and worked on that to make 2 pretty good games.

But hey, if you guys are going to cynical about it, that's cool. 

It's cool......

Oh yeah, don't recall putting my thoughts on this game yet, have I?

But yeah, as a guy that found Shattered Crystal to be a pretty decent game, I have some pretty positive hopes for Fire & Ice.

Seeing that gameplay footage from the Joypolis event, I can see Sonic moving a lot more smoother and faster than in the first game, which is a small minor problem for me but it's great that they did that. Sonic's Air Dash seems to take less time to do and it retains some of Sonic's momentum, dem small details. Also the Spindash looks to be much faster than in SC, GG games eat your heart out! While the Fire & Ice abilities aren't going to be well fleshed-out from the looks of it, they looks like well utilized powers for some impressive speedruns for this game. You guys know this will be a game for people like DSS to speedrun the heck out of.

Amy looks to be fun to play as well, so that's cool. 

Also, no forced exploration? Stages being 40% shorter? Challenge Rooms? MORE SEA FOX AND THE RETURN OF THE HOVERCRAFT?! Say, it isn't so!

So yeah, Fire & Ice looks to be a much faster-paced game twith some decent powers and has a surprisingly good amount of content as well. Color me impressed!

 

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

On the one hand the devs say "Less exploration!"  

On the other all the press material says "Exploration!" As a huge bullet selling point.

Meanwhile. No trailers. No screens. No material. No interviews. 

No reason ANYONE should pre-order/buy this game or trust a word that's said about it.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

On the one hand the devs say "Less exploration!"  

On the other all the press material says "Exploration!" As a huge bullet selling point.

Meanwhile. No trailers. No screens. No material. No interviews. 

No reason ANYONE should pre-order/buy this game or trust a word that's said about it.

Less exploration doesn't mean no exploration. Like, the classic games have less exploration than a Metroid game, but that's because Metroid is open-ended as fuck.

 

...So does that mean Unleashed is Other M?

Edited August 26, 2015 by Shaddy

[Salamander]

But yeah, as a guy that found Shattered Crystal to be a pretty decent game, I have some pretty positive hopes for Fire & Ice.

If you enjoyed Shattered Crystal, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to look forward to Fire & Ice.  It may be that I'll criticise the games, but I have no interest in criticising your taste.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Less exploration doesn't mean no exploration. Like, the classic games have less exploration than a Metroid game, but that's because Metroid is open-ended as fuck.

 

...So does that mean Unleashed is Other M?

I'll let you know when someone at Sega remembers that this game exists.

[JezMM]

MORE SEA FOX

FFWF might not want to criticise your taste but I will, did you really enjoy these sections?  Just genuinely curious like, yeah cool throwback and all but the Sea Fox segments were so weird and pointlessly simple.  You had to tap the screen to display the map but there was really no penalty for just doing so constantly, you never suffered for the downtime.  The time limits given were ample, the lack of music just made it feel unfinished rather than atmospheric, and they just seemed to arbitrary.  Like most of SC's hazards, they had no relationship to the envioronment or context at all.  Just... on every level there is this tank that contains a blueprint... and Tails has to throw a tiny submarine to retrieve it because... okay.

 

Like I can't imagine getting excited to do more of those segments.  They were just so dumb.

[FriendBot]

FFWF might not want to criticise your taste but I will, did you really enjoy these sections?  Just genuinely curious like, yeah cool throwback and all but the Sea Fox segments were so weird and pointlessly simple.  You had to tap the screen to display the map but there was really no penalty for just doing so constantly, you never suffered for the downtime.  The time limits given were ample, the lack of music just made it feel unfinished rather than atmospheric, and they just seemed to arbitrary.  Like most of SC's hazards, they had no relationship to the envioronment or context at all.  Just... on every level there is this tank that contains a blueprint... and Tails has to throw a tiny submarine to retrieve it because... okay.

 

Like I can't imagine getting excited to do more of those segments.  They were just so dumb.

Well, Sea Fox was cool because using it in Triple Trouble (I think?) was cool. Not as impressive in SC but who knows, they up their game a bit. Not saying everyone who has no interest in this game is an idiot or anything but it could a fun time atleast.

[CottonCandy]

I dunno this whole game is becoming fishy to me. I mean, if Sega really wanted to persuade people into believing that Fire and Ice is a big improvement over the original wouldn't they want to show it off as much as possible? The fact that we haven't a peep about this game for months just tells me they have no faith in this game. And  If they have no faith in this game then why should anyone else? :/

FFWF might not want to criticise your taste but I will, did you really enjoy these sections?  Just genuinely curious like, yeah cool throwback and all but the Sea Fox segments were so weird and pointlessly simple.  You had to tap the screen to display the map but there was really no penalty for just doing so constantly, you never suffered for the downtime.  The time limits given were ample, the lack of music just made it feel unfinished rather than atmospheric, and they just seemed to arbitrary.  Like most of SC's hazards, they had no relationship to the envioronment or context at all.  Just... on every level there is this tank that contains a blueprint... and Tails has to throw a tiny submarine to retrieve it because... okay.

 

Like I can't imagine getting excited to do more of those segments.  They were just so dumb.

 Another man's trash is another man's treasure? (shrugs)

[FriendBot]

 Another man's trash is another man's treasure? (shrugs)

This especially the case when I found LW3DS to be one of my favorite Sonic games to date! XD

[Komodin]

Well, I'm not gonna lie: this game is still leaving a lot to be desired for me. It just comes as, essentially, DLC for Shattered Crystal so far and that they still haven't shown any new materials for it since its out-of-nowhere reveal isn't instilling much confidence in its favor. It really does look like they're sending it out to flop at this point.

[FriendBot]

Well, the lack of info since Joypolis definitely is an issue but hopefully, some details will be revealed soon or atleast before the release. 

I'm just being delusional, aren't I......

[Dejimon11]

Well, I'm not gonna lie: this game is still leaving a lot to be desired for me. It just comes as, essentially, DLC for Shattered Crystal so far and that they still haven't shown any new materials for it since its out-of-nowhere reveal isn't instilling much confidence in its favor. It really does look like they're sending it out to flop at this point.

Ive said this before but it makes me wonder why this game is being made since they've been quiet about it since it's announcement.