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Of course, much of the duration of Shattered Crystal is devoted to backtracking because of forced exploration, so if those elements are taking a backseat, more levels might not intrinsically mean longer duration.

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I mean, that's true.  I think in terms of Shattered Crystal, I prefer to see quality over quantity. I'm just saying that with one of the most crucial aspects of padding the game out thankfully de-emphasized, it means it's really hard to determine if the game will have a longer overall play time or not.

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7 hours ago, Tara said:

I mean, that's true.  I think in terms of Shattered Crystal, I prefer to see quality over quantity. I'm just saying that with one of the most crucial aspects of padding the game out thankfully de-emphasized, it means it's really hard to determine if the game will have a longer overall play time or not.

Look at it this way: In Shattered Crystal, the first world had ONE large 2-D stage and 2 or 3 bonus levels.

From what I played of this demo, the first world has TWO large 2-D stages that you have the option to explore. Then there are 6 other bonus levels and a boss fight. That's a lot for just the first world. They took the delay seriously and really beefed up the game.

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8 minutes ago, Jason the Jackass said:

Look at it this way: In Shattered Crystal, the first world had ONE large 2-D stage and 2 or 3 bonus levels.

From what I played of this demo, the first world has TWO large 2-D stages that you have the option to explore. Then there are 6 other bonus levels and a boss fight. That's a lot for just the first world. They took the delay seriously and really beefed up the game.

Well, that does seem to be an improvement overall.  At least in terms of the amount of content.

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Well even with the backtracking, I still managed to beat the game with all the Crystals and Blueprints within a day. So hearing that there's going to be more stages in each level makes more comforting to know that within each level, there's going to be 1 or 2 main stages and a couple of extra ones. It seems like there's going to be much more bang for your buck with F&I and that's pretty neat, if I say so myself.

Also GameInformer posted their first impressions of Fire & ice and it's positive, surprisingly.

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sonic_boom_fire__ice/b/3ds/archive/2016/06/14/a-speedy-step-in-the-right-direction.aspx

He mentions that the game is more closer to the classic speedy gameplay the series was known for. Which I kind of already expected, again that Tokyo Joyopolis fottage from a year back showed how fast Sonic's Air Dashes and Spindash can go, it's very likely this could be a game that I would speedrun for the fun of it.

But here's something that caught my eye, when the guy mentions his experience with one of the bosses (The Tiki Montser thing). " As Sonic, I dodged the attacks of the giant tiki monster's hand and then countered with a homing attack, then swapped to Amy to hammer the ground to build a platform for Sonic to jump up and attack the monster's head. "

I wonder if Fire & Ice will pull an Advance 3 and make unique strategies for a boss with whatever duo you use? That could bring in some nice replayable value tbh so that's another nice plus in my books.

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My main problem with Shattered Crystal was that it was very low on content. There were very few levels and few things to do in them. So, hearing that F&I will have more "substance" overall is a very good thing!

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I'm still a bit skeptical, and as the article itself even mentions, "while I don't think that those who completely disliked Shattered Crystal will do a 180° on the Sonic Boom sub-series, the gameplay trends much closer to the classic gameplay that popularized the series."  Shattered Crystal was the less offensive of the two main Boom games, imo, but it had a multitude of problems other than speed, which seems to be the main thing that this article cites as an improvement.

But i'll be more than happy to be proven wrong.

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"the gameplay trends much closer to the classic gameplay that popularized the series."

There's that phrase again....

The words "classic (2D) gameplay" as uttered by journalists, developers, and PR reps has lost its original meaning a long time ago. Wonder if by "classic" they actually are simply referring to the fact that it's on a 2D plane and Sonic moves faster than Mario and other contemporaries.

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I hope they'll give us a demo of the game to try out. I'm actually curious to finding out myself as well because from the sounds of it, there seems to be slight major improvements over Shattered Crystal.

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3 hours ago, Gabe said:

"the gameplay trends much closer to the classic gameplay that popularized the series."

There's that phrase again....

The words "classic (2D) gameplay" as uttered by journalists, developers, and PR reps has lost its original meaning a long time ago. Wonder if by "classic" they actually are simply referring to the fact that it's on a 2D plane and Sonic moves faster than Mario and other contemporaries.

That's what I'm thinking, honestly.  I doubt Shattered Crystal's core gameplay engine is even capable of being made into something remotely resembling classic gameplay, or even Advance and Rush (and by extension, Sonic 4) gameplay.

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1 hour ago, Omega Pipe said:

there seems to be slight major improvements over Shattered Crystal.

but are they slight or major

 

real-talk though, I'm weirded out by the not-horrible reception this has gotten. I expected "meh" at best and we've gotten "okay I guess"!

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19 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

but are they slight or major

 

real-talk though, I'm weirded out by the not-horrible reception this has gotten. I expected "meh" at best and we've gotten "okay I guess"!

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't word that properly. I guess I was trying to say was that it least made improvements over the Shattered Crystal, but it's still not all that amazing or "really impressive" but at least they actually took their time.

 

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We got some gameplay footage, showing off the ice forest level called "Glacier Forest" and the tiki montser boss called "Unga Bunga". 

And I gotta say the levels are much smaller in comparison to Shattered Crystal but maybe it's because the characters are going much faster in this game, meh maybe I don't know. Also the boss battles look pretty fun, though it seems like it takes 4 hits to knock them out but we get to see D-Fekt in action taking cotnrol of the bosses. Also I love it how Unga Bunga slams the screen down to the bottom, that's some good meta right there. And I also recall another boss blowing bubbles with a straw, FUCKING BUBBLES! So yeah, it's really nice that the bosses provide some humor into it as well, gives the game some personality if I say so myself.

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14 minutes ago, sansy said:

 

We got some gameplay footage, showing off the ice forest level called "Glacier Forest" and the tiki montser boss called "Unga Bunga". 

And I gotta say the levels are much smaller in comparison to Shattered Crystal but maybe it's because the characters are going much faster in this game, meh maybe I don't know. Also the boss battles look pretty fun, though it seems like it takes 4 hits to knock them out but we get to see D-Fekt in action taking cotnrol of the bosses. Also I love it how Unga Bunga slams the screen down to the bottom, that's some good meta right there. And I also recall another boss blowing bubbles with a straw, FUCKING BUBBLES! So yeah, it's really nice that the bosses provide some humor into it as well, gives the game some personality if I say so myself.

Okay, that was at least an interesting watch. You can literally beat the level as Sonic or any of the characters you so choose and the game doesn't have force to have to switch them in during the level, unlike Shattered Crystal, although it may do that for the bosses which is something I'm not sure what feel about that. The explorations made optional for the game to help it flow better is also a plus for me. Anyway, we got to finally see some gameplay footage and at least I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.

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3 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Why does the game warp you back to a point if you fail a jump but didn't die?

Doesn't SC do that too? I remember falling on spikes and lasers and being teleported back.

12 minutes ago, sansy said:

 

We got some gameplay footage, showing off the ice forest level called "Glacier Forest" and the tiki montser boss called "Unga Bunga". 

And I gotta say the levels are much smaller in comparison to Shattered Crystal but maybe it's because the characters are going much faster in this game, meh maybe I don't know. Also the boss battles look pretty fun, though it seems like it takes 4 hits to knock them out but we get to see D-Fekt in action taking cotnrol of the bosses. Also I love it how Unga Bunga slams the screen down to the bottom, that's some good meta right there. And I also recall another boss blowing bubbles with a straw, FUCKING BUBBLES! So yeah, it's really nice that the bosses provide some humor into it as well, gives the game some personality if I say so myself.

The footage looks better than SC, it's a little faster and the levels are shorter and less convoluted, but it's still not enough for me. I don't like that the "speedy" parts completely take away control from the player and they last that long, it's not the usual loop you see in Sonic games, it's a whole section. When you're not hitting a boostpad you're still going slow, and the level design is still blocky and not built around speed. I'd buy it, but when it's discounted at around 15€ and just because I collect Sonic stuff.

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It looks about what I expected, but there's a definite looseness that I didn't see in SC. In Shattered Crystal, jumping and landing, homing attacks, enerwhip stuff, all seemed to sort of stagger Sonic's movement a little (see, the cooldown time in a homing attack chain) and bring him to a halt. While breif, that's why the game felt slightly clunky (not to mention the floatiness when jumping at high speeds). Here it seems to work better. Sonic moves a lot more in midair homing attack chains and his little airdash thing seems to either not have a chargeup or retain momentum when he comes out of it, maybe both. Whatever it is, it looks faster, and I don't see nearly the amount of skidding around during jumps that I did in Shattered Crystal. I'm guessing that the core mechanics and level design were not drastically altered during the delay and that the tighter controls are what they focused on.

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Bleh, all it looks like they've done is tweak the player's ground movement to move moderately faster in the context of gameplay. Aerial movement still looks very floaty, and it still has the same problem of Shattered Crystal of having binary sections of automated speed (and that's just a strung-together sequence of dash panels and bounce pads springs...I guess they are still adhering to Dimps' vision of 2D Sonic) and barebones platforming (with the levels being as large as they are are, one would expect to see a lot more than just enerbeam swinging over spiked pits and a few ice platforms to hop / air dash through).

It looks like all of the supposed polish went into the game's graphics a la Sonic 4: Episode II, which are admittedly rather nice to look at. If only the gameplay had gotten as much attention.

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Gameplay looks as passable as the first, but if there's less mandatory exploration stuff that'll make all the difference as to whether it's a fun game or just tiresome.

I hate that they still have the same ugly as hell stage clear screens though.

On 15/06/2016 at 2:03 PM, sansy said:

I wonder if Fire & Ice will pull an Advance 3 and make unique strategies for a boss with whatever duo you use? That could bring in some nice replayable value tbh so that's another nice plus in my books.

I didn't see any sign of a character select screen (even a greyed out one) and the demo has Tails available, so I'm guessing you use preset combinations on each boss.

2 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Why does the game warp you back to a point if you fail a jump but didn't die?

Yeah, Shattered Crystal did this too.  You take damage of course, but it's actually kind of a sensible design decision.  I mean due to the nature of Sonic's health system we've all done the thing where you hop along a long hazardous area repeatedly getting hit and recollecting a single ring until you're safe.  It's not difficult to do at all so you may as well skip over it and give the player the satisfaction of trying again properly instead of abandoning the intended platforming action after their first failure and hobbling their way along to the end (possibly just to discover that the platforming they failed is the only way to reach the other side due to a high ledge etc).

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