We like Sonic, I think?

[Failinhearts]

I talked to my Dad recently about the announcement of Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice and the negative reception surrounding the game and the franchise in general.

 

He says our negative attitudes come from what other people say about the game and that we don't form our own opinions. He believes we bash Sonic for the sake of bashing Sonic.

 

Is this true? I question the existence of Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice due to the financial and critical failure of 

Shattered Crystal but I don't HATE it. I'm just confused. 

 

My Dad questions our dedication to Sonic as fans. He says that fans should look forward and stay optimistic on whatever is made, not assume it's gonna be utter crap the day it is announced. We all know though, that we're used to disappointing games and this could be why we can be so pessimistic.  An example he brings up is the movie: "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" from 2014. My Dad loves that movie and he says the reason the film did so poorly is because of raging fanboys "blindly" hating on the movie because Micheal Bay is involved.

 

I usually am optimistic about new Sonic games, this is coming from a guy who liked Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog (some parts), Sonic And The Black Knight, Sonic Lost World and even Sonic 06.

 

The only games I didn't like were Sonic And The Secret Rings and Sonic The Hedgehog: Genesis.

 

So what do you think? Do you think we are providing legitimate criticism or are just riding on the "Hate Sonic" bandwagon despite being fans? I wanna know your view on this.

[FriendBot]

Some people do provide reasonable criticism for the series and I do think they are justified in their feelings about the series since the recent games like Lost World and Boom, especially Boom, hasn't lived up to its hype. 

 

But I will say this, people seems to over exaggerate their disappointment.

 

I mean yeah, Fire & Ice is a thing and looks no different from Shattered Crystal. I mean, it kind of doesn't make sense to release it since people are still on the Boom bash but hey, the show's popular so make do, I guess. I mean, if it's going to fix the problems SC had then I see no problem with this game really.

 

So yeah, I understand where they come from but I still think they're overdoing it a bit.

[Agie]

I feel like I've no right to answer this. So I won't. That's you guys' call.

 

I will say the confusion is justified, though. The game's existence is bewildering at best, and only makes sense if we assume it started development not long after Shattered Crystal was finished.

 

Beyond that...I already have (at BEST) a shaky track record with this sort of thing, so I'll make zero guesses. I've already overexaggerated things several times.

[Yoko/葉子]

I think that a lot of us are looking for things to complain about.

I mean, I don't like Sonic 06, but rather than be intentionally harsh, I look for even the smallest things in it to appreciate. Even if it's just the designs of enemies.

People complain about the constant changes in gameplay. The reality is that life changes a lot for everyone. Would I like consistency in my life and Sonic games? Yes, but without change, one can't attract more audiences and balance is impossible.

[Sega DogTagz]

ISo what do you think? Do you think we are providing legitimate criticism or are just riding on the "Hate Sonic" bandwagon despite being fans? I wanna know your view on this.

[Osmium]

I think we are criticizing the games fairly. Remember, that Fire & Ice is a sequel based on an awful game and many people were expecting SEGA to move on, not try to make more money on what was obviously a failure. 

 

I don't think criticizing a company for making really stupid decisions and a game which is already looking pretty uninspired and is most likely going to have the same fate as Shattered Crystal is the same as being on a Hate Bandwagon. 

[SBR2]

Considering this fandom declares Sonic dead everytime there's one bad game after great ones like Colors and Generations your dad might have a point.

 

Personally I just sit back and enjoy the ride myself.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Is this true? I question the existence of Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice due to the financial and critical failure of 

Shattered Crystal but I don't HATE it. I'm just confused. 

 

My Dad questions our dedication to Sonic as fans. He says that fans should look forward and stay optimistic on whatever is made, not assume it's gonna be utter crap the day it is announced. We all know though, that we're used to disappointing games and this could be why we can be so pessimistic.  An example he brings up is the movie: "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" from 2014. My Dad loves that movie and he says the reason the film did so poorly is because of raging fanboys "blindly" hating on the movie because Micheal Bay is involved.

 

[Diogenes]

No offense, but your dad's full of shit.

This isn't some blind, peer-pressure based hate train, this is pattern recognition. The series has a terrible track record at this point. When a game is announced that looks almost identical to a game you hated, you have every reason and right not to trust in it. The game is not owed your interest; it has to earn it.

It doesn't do you any good to suppress your dislike and support games you don't want. And it doesn't do the series any good to support and thus encourage bad games.

[Lady Soniko]

We don't bash Sonic, we just know when something is going to be the same old song and dance as the plethora of shit SEGA and Sonic Team have been shovelling for years now. As a long term fan I've become increasingly numb to what Sonic has become since his struggle to keep up with the shift in modern gaming, Sonic is easy to poke fun at because it's easy to see the franchise floundering around in the deep end where it's waded too far and can't keep its head above water. Any gamer, fan or otherwise can see Sonic as the butt of most jokes because of his history of bad games, bad business moves and overall lack of quality and consistency across the years since his move to 3D and simply moving from what made Sonic, "Sonic".

The hate? Justified due to how long I've dragged my feet to the same old dead horse with a glint of hope that he'll return to form "someday" but by now I can guarantee that the nostalgia and childhood hero he once was to me is the only thing keeping me tethered from letting go of the franchise to me. I hate everything about current sonic, there's not one redeeming thing I care for at all, so yeah that's my story and the conclusion I've come to, also partly the reason I'm still deciding whether it's worth coming back here after I've had my break, or if I should just let go and move on. *shrug*

[FriendBot]

I get that most people here are sick of seeing mediocre Sonic games nowadays but I don't really think just bashing the game will do any good. I mean, I'm sure there is good in this current direction but it doesn't seem like people really don't care for it and just want Sonic back in his Adventure/Unleashed days, which is not bad I'm not saying it isn't but could a little bit of constructive criticism be helpful instead of bashing because I'm it might help. 

 

Or am I being delusional again?

[Kuzu]

I agree with the sentiment that we do tend to blow things out of proportion more than we should and that we should just learn to appreciate what we're getting and that Sonic is still alive today.

 

 

What I think your Dad is misunderstanding however is that the grievances most fans have goes far beyond just mere bellyaching. Most fans of this series are probably young adults, who have had to sit back and watch this franchise fall more and more into mediocrity for over a decade with sub-par games and questionable design choices. The first bit of goodwill we get in years and then we fall headfirst back into mediocrity with Sonic Boom. The developers continue to show blissful ignorance of their audiences by making no attempts to bridge the two communities despite things like twitter and Facebook making it possible.

 

The result is that a franchise that people have put so much time into supporting has become a mishmash of poorly executed ideas with no coherency of what its trying to be and just trying to cash in on the latest trends. And there seems to be no end in sight of this.

 

 

While I don't agree with all of "SONIC IS DEAD" posts and have gotten really tired of them myself, I think some of us have a right to be just a little cynical when we've been constantly jerked around by this franchise. I mean fuck, we're people too and we can only take but so much before we break.

[Soniman]

 

While I don't agree with all of "SONIC IS DEAD" posts and have gotten really tired of them myself, I think some of us have a right to be just a little cynical when we've been constantly jerked around by this franchise. I mean fuck, we're people too and we can only take but so much before we break.

[Scar]

We get mad and we get upset when we see something that looks bad, not because we hate the franchise or lack dedication.

Its because we CARE. It chews away at and hurts a small part of my stone cold heart every time a new Sonic game is released that is collectively shat on, not only by people outside the fanbase, but also people inside the fanbase who are just left disappointed for the umpteenth time.

[Kuzu]

I wouldve said ive gotten more hopeful now that Boom was behind us but well......its not lol. All of 2015 and 1/4th of 2016 will be ruled by Boom apparentley.

[Lisbon]

For me at least, it's not so much wanting to dislike the announcement, but what we've seen of Fire and Ice so far and what the Boom series of videogames has given us in the past gives me reasons to be pessimistic. I would much rather it be a great game that I could fully enjoy than something to rag on, but I'm not going to kid myself and act like I have a reason to be excited other than the characters on the cover.

The gameplay footage looked bland and the two games released in this spinoff series have sucked - I love Sonic to pieces and have for most of my life, but I have quality standards that I stick to and I'm not going to act like I have reason to be excited when I quite frankly don't see one outside of the prospect of a new Sonic game.

 

I hope it turns out great, but I expect it to suck. If someone doesn't at least hope a game is good then I'd be questioning their validity as a fan as well, but expectations are an entirely different story. Seeing the surrounding circumstances with Fire and Ice, I'd say the low expectations and pessimism are both justified. 

[Wraith]

I don't see why I have an obligation to be excited for something that looks awful. All Boom has done is made me less interested in Sonic to begin with. Even more of it is only even more of a turnoff. Especially since it looks like no improvements are really being made.

[Soniman]

I don't see why I have an obligation to be excited for something that looks awful. All Boom has done is made me less interested in Sonic to begin with. Even more of it is only even more of a turnoff. Especially since it looks like no improvements are really being made.

[Fletch]

There are those who bash Sonic because they see others doing that, so they follow the crowd, but, I personally feel as if the vast majority of people - at least the fans of Sonic actually end up forming their own opinions regarding the game and have solid reasons as to why they bash whatever is coming out. It's easy to understand, but long to explain. 

 

While I do agree that fans should be optimistic for whatever is announced now, and what will be announced in the future, you have to face reality and understand that fans do have actual reasons as to why they aren't optimistic. Take for instance yesterday. Many weren't that positive towards it, and I can say one of the key reasons is why is because the sequel to Shattered Crystal literally looks like it's going to follow the same gameplay style that the first game did. If you didn't like Shattered Crystal, then you probably won't like this. You can argue that changes are being made (level length cut down to 40%, a bit faster, a linear path added, etc.), but even then, it's still probably going to look like an update that only fix some problems, but doesn't fix the entire problem that someone has with it. 

 

TL;DR 

It's literally just human nature to be this way. While some follow a crowd, others, and probably the vast majority are smart enough to form their own conscious opinion on something. We're Sonic fans all born in different eras. We all have a personal style that we want Sonic to be in. After being let down multiple times when it comes to SEGA/SonicTeam not delivering on what we personally want out of a game, or just in general making a good Sonic game, we have every right to be cautious. If something also just looks bad, and it seems like it's going to be just like the last game, then it's probably going to be bad in the end and not worth the time. 

[Nepenthe]

Your Dad literally has no idea about the turgid history of the franchise and the general quality of the games, so why you went to him about a matter as niche as Sonic fan reactions is beyond me.

I've never gone into a game with new, unplayed features expecting to hate it. At the very least, that's a dumb waste of money. However, if I come out of the experience not liking it, and I'm able to determine the reasons why I didn't like it, and Sega perpetuates those reasons for every game after, why should I be expected to be excited for the new games? You yourself say you don't like Secret Rings. Well, what if Sega started making nothing but Secret Rings sequels and spiritual successors? You'd be right in the trenches with other people who don't like Secret Rings not being so happy.

Half of the annoyance about Fire and Ice also comes from the PR released about it. Sega says they've taken criticism into account but we have no word nor visual representation that this is even true. It looks fundamentally the same as the last game. Why should we just blindly believe this game is going to be some killer app for the 3DS just because they said they've listened? A company isn't a charity. They're going to say what they need to say to ensure as many people buy it. And considering gaming is a more expensive hobby than watching films, I expect people to be more wary.

Are there people who exaggerate the isses? Yes, and I personally can't stand those people. But conflating everyone with genuine criticisms to the people crying that Sonic is dead or Sega is malicious is ignorant, full stop.

[Osmium]

The reason why Fire & Ice makes me so angry is because not just that it looks so unappealing, but that it is a outright stupid, stupid decision to be made by SEGA. Like, did they even see how the last Boom games did? Didn't they see that both of these games were spectacularly unpopular? 

 

It's like they don't even care anymore about their reputation or if anyone likes their games or not, they got shit to crap out. 

 

I seriously am starting to get more and more worried about Sonic's future. 

[Kuzu]

The reason why Fire & Ice makes me so angry is because not just that it looks so unappealing, but that it is a outright stupid, stupid decision to be made by SEGA. Like, did they even see how the last Boom games did? Didn't they see that both of these games were spectacularly unpopular? 

 

It's like they don't even care anymore about their reputation or if anyone likes their games or not, they got shit to crap out. 

 

Fire & Ice was likely already in development before the sales of Boom even came in and it'd be kind of dumb to just cancel it beforehand, regardless of how the previous games did.

[Wraith]

Boom hasnt made me less interested in the actual games, to me Boom is the equivalent of no games being annonced for this series, so I can't say they hurt me to much. They're just these dumb side things that dont appeal to me and I can just ignore until the next actual Sonic game releases. I think what makes me mad about Fire and Ice above all is that its kind of a visual confirmation that main Sonic still wont come out for some time.

 

If they really want to release side games like this, I'd rather they be good instead of awful games that nobody really wants. I'm just baffled on why they're dead set on continuing this. 

[Osmium]

Fire & Ice was likely already in development before the sales of Boom even came in and it'd be kind of dumb to just cancel it beforehand, regardless of how the previous games did.

 

Oh, well I didn't know that it was probably in development at that time, so it would be dumb to just stop development. My fault. 

 

I don't know why they decided to start development on another game so early without knowing how the first games initially will do, so it's still kind of stupid. SEGA really needs to calm down. 

[Celestia]

I imagine Fire & Ice is still going to be released primarily because of how much money they put into Boom as a whole (not to mention it could have easily started development soon after SC had been completed or something). As much as I would not mind the game being cancelled--hell, given the reactions to what we have so far, it would probably be great for PR if they're so concerned about that--it isn't that surprising that they aren't.

 

Plus, I mean, there was a Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures 2. It's the same with Boom: cheap (I imagine, especially the handheld games) cash-ins based on a cartoon. It'd be nice if they were well-made, and for all we know F&I could genuinely improve on SC to some extent, but somehow I'm not expecting that so...whatever.

 

I'll just wait for the next main game and hope people are reasonable during it's hype period...yeah, I know, I can dream.