Sonic Spitball - Part Two!

[shdowhunt60]

You can get a couple mobile games to sell to the kids who were born with green eyes :V We're talking about tackling the big leagues, you gotta break a few eggs to do that!

(are you beginning to see there's no solution that won't leave someone unhappy? I'm fine with modern Sonic existing, but genuinely I think a merger of the two with Sonic looking like Sonic 3 Sonic would be the most, at a basic marketing level, successful approach to throwing Sonic back into at least the general gaming eye favourably. Someone'll always come out hurt, though, so it's really no use even trying to pretend "oh but we can appease everyone")

And that's why I said that there should be two separate branches, because there is absolutely no way you're going to be able to please everyone at once. You cater to specific audiences, and make sure that nobody feels like they're getting swept off to the wayside. This is exactly why, in my opinion, why the fanbases for certain games of yesteryear, be it Classic OR Adventure, are so damned militant about everything, is because they feel neglected.

[Mauro Fonseca]

You're still not getting it.

You're assuming you can simply do lip service to two branches and shove classic away and do adventure and everything's fine.

Tara's already shown up showing you there's at least a third demographic. Will you do a third branch?

Personally, I want to see Lost World developed. Will you do a fourth branch?

What about those who liked Boost? Will you do a fifth branch?

 

[Diogenes]

And then you clamp down on what the Classic games are "allowed" to do, so they don't butt up against the Adventure games. Being a fan of the classics doesn't mean I want endless repeats of S3&K, I want the kind of games that would've evolved from that had the series not tried to be a dozen different things instead. That's not going to happen if it's stuck being nothing but 2D handheld games.

[Bowbowis]

Therein also lies a problem:  Why should only modern Sonic fans get a 3D Sonic?  Why should modern Sonic be the only one to get 3D Adventures?  I mean, I'm not suggesting they stop with the classic-style sidescrollers, but suffice it to say, I've wanted a 3D Sonic game that looks and feels like classic Sonic for the longest time now (Generations and SLW don't count).

Regardless, I don't feel the console is relevant.  Both versions of Zelda (and by extension, both versions of Sonic) can intermingle on different consoles as they please.  If they wanted to make a Toon Link game on the Wii U and "real Link" game on the 3DS for a change, it wouldn't strike me as any more problematic as long as it was a good game.  If they make a console version of a classic-inspired Sonic game, that doesn't mean we can't look forward to a more modern-inspired game on the same console, and if they made a portable version of a modern-style Sonic, it wouldn't be mean it would be usurping the classic style.

I get where our coming from, as I said above I'm not trying to say that classic inspired Sonic can never be on consoles, if SEGA wants to mix it up every now and then I have no problem with it, I just wouldn't recommend doing it right now. If you ask me the best way SEGA could go about this is to do as I suggested for the next few years at least. Adventure Sonic on console and Classic Sonic on handheld, establish the different aspects of the franchise as being coexistent rather than mutually exclusive like they have been since '05 or '08 (depending on whether or not you view Rush as being classic inspired). At that point I'd be much more comfortable with a more classic type console game like Heroes because SEGA has stuck with both Classic and Adventure type games for awhile so I'm much less worried that I'll never see the kind of Sonic game I want again. In fact I was a lot less harsh on Colors when it released for that exact reason, it wasn't until I realized the entire franchise was taking that direction that I really started laying into it.

 

That's exactly why I'd argue that trying to maintain separate branches is a mistake. Can't have a series with a "clear and distinct" identity if it's trying to support multiple Sonics at once.

I mean, so long as we're trying to support elements of this discussion with kinda-cynical "this is what'd be popular!" "this'd allow it to stand out!" "this is what the series needs to survive and appeal to the normal audience!"

I think there'd be a good argument to get a good 3d Sonic gameplay going, while going back to the classic Sonic art and feel for everything

 

in most cases, forgotten or troubled franchises when reinventing themselves through a return to roots find success- see the recent Mickey shorts, for an example

I understand this desire for consistency, I really do, but as Shadowhunt has said just going straight Classic and telling half of the fanbase to go fuck itself is not a bright idea no matter how you slice it. If absolute cohesion is so important that two distinct branches of the franchise can't exist (and I don't think it is, again Zelda is still going strong despite it's different branches), then I'd say the best way to get Sonic to that state would be through an acculturation-type process whereby we start with a distinct Classic and Modern Sonic and gradually introduce ideas and elements from each into the other until they become a single unified whole.

[Tara]

In general, I've kind of grown lethargic to arguments of "what about us?!" when I'm almost positive that the same people complaining would not be willing to stand up for the interests of others, and those that are left behind would only demonize whatever direction the series took.

Don't get me wrong I understand what it's like to feel left in the dust by your favorite brand.  I haven't liked any iteration of TMNT since the 1986 series, but I'm not upset at the 2003 or 2012 series for not catering to me or for making the intelligent decision to not pander to my nostalgia.

In the end, even when/if we do find an appropriate middle ground that suits the highest possible number of players, someone is going to feel left out, and I empathize with that.  But a series is prone to change, and that means that people are going to be in and out of the fanbase with every change.  The problem with Sonic is that every change they make causes too many people to leave, because the change is too drastic and never properly committed to later.

[Mauro Fonseca]

>dividing it in half

>classic branch and adventure brach

>telling half the fanbase off

 

aren't you putting a bit too much importance in Adventure, its role in the fanbase, and its position in the modern world? You're forcing this false dichotomy that just feels to me like what Tara just mentioned of "not being willing to stand up for the others". I mean, if this distopia of yours of Classic branch and Modern branch went through, what about Tara's want for a classic-Adventure? Or my wanting a more developed Lost World? Or people wanting Boost? Do they all just fuck off and not exist, because Sonic is divided between "games that are relevant because they were good and the start of it all" and "games that were released 15 years ago, aren't nearly as good, but are somehow being used here as the only alternative to 2d"?

[Your Vest Friend]

Eh, I just doubt classic Sonic will ever be brought back into the games on a regular basis. SEGA just use him as a merchandising face for their more mature-aimed lines, games don't come into the plan when they're aiming them at kids.

And yeah, I know plenty of franchises do aim at more general audiences to pull in kids and adults alike, but that doesn't appear to be the modus operandi for Sonic. *shrug*

Edited July 16, 2015 by VEDJ-F

[Wraith]

I feel like a lot of importance is being placed on the Adventure style here like it's an essential thing they need to have going forward. The version of Sonic that's really popular with the general public is Classic Sonic, so if we were to go with what makes the "most sense" from a business standpoint, it'd be to push that first and foremost. Making another Sonic Adventure at all is a huge risk considering that entire era gets slammed left and right. You'd only be attracting a minority within the fanbase with that

 

[Mauro Fonseca]

I know they won't, I'm just saying on a pure cynical level it'd probably be the smartest move. Maybe wait until the Boom cartoon is over, maybe either don't make games or have Sanzaru shit out some Boom games, then come out with a big adventure in a visual style associated with "when Sonic was good".

 

EDIT: A Sonic Adventure 3'd need to be some Marvel Cinematic Universe-level bullshit to work nowadays. Make various character spinoffs, work their gameplays individually, then when 6 characters are proven to work, make a game with all six.

Edited July 16, 2015 by The KKM

[Briraka]

Maybe we can not pigeonhole each gameplay style and try to cross-pollinate elements into a gameplay that can attempt to satisfy our desires? Crazy as it sounds, the different styles of Sonic games aren't so radically different from each other that a hybrid of sorts can't be formulated.

[Nepenthe]

Maybe we can not pigeonhole each gameplay style and try to cross-pollinate elements into a gameplay that can attempt to satisfy our desires? Crazy as it sounds, the different styles of Sonic games aren't so radically different from each other that a hybrid of sorts can't be formulated.

This is my view on the whole thing at this point, and it's what I was trying to get across earlier. Irrationally forming hard lines in the sand and approaching the issue as a zero sum game is literally going to get us nowhere, unless your actual goal is to indeed argue that everyone else deserves to be screwed the most and get nothing to look forward to.

[Bowbowis]

>dividing it in half

>classic branch and adventure brach

>telling half the fanbase off

 

aren't you putting a bit too much importance in Adventure, its role in the fanbase, and its position in the modern world? You're forcing this false dichotomy that just feels to me like what Tara just mentioned of "not being willing to stand up for the others". I mean, if this distopia of yours of Classic branch and Modern branch went through, what about Tara's want for a classic-Adventure? Or my wanting a more developed Lost World? Or people wanting Boost? Do they all just fuck off and not exist, because Sonic is divided between "games that are relevant because they were good and the start of it all" and "games that were released 15 years ago, aren't nearly as good, but are somehow being used here as the only alternative to 2d"?

Can you explain your logic to me please because what I'm getting from you is essentially, "We can make games which appeal to two branches of the franchise but we can't appeal to all branches of the franchise. Ergo we should only appeal to one (Classic) branch of the franchise." I'm sure that's not your intent but that's how it's coming off to me.

At any rate when I talk about Adventure style I'm talking more than just gameplay. I'm also talking about the plots, settings, atmosphere, story elements, and characterizations which were established by Sonic Adventure, in that respect Adventure style covers almost everything from Adventure to Black Knight and even parts of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Considering that's literally half the series lifespan I think I would be remiss not to treat it as significant. I don't recall ever proscribing a gameplay style for 3D Sonic and although I would favor a more faithful translation of the classic gameplay into 3D like the Adventure games I'd still be satisfied with Boost or even Storybook style gameplay so long as the non-gameplay elements are more in line with the pre-Colors games.

I do take offense to your insinuation that I "don't stand up for others," as in fact nothing could be further from the truth. The whole reason I suggested splitting Classic and Modern Sonic in the first place was so that both Classic and Modern/Adventure fans could have games that cater to them without stepping on each others toes instead of the "all or nothing" approach I all to often see people advocating. As it turns out though my proposition of a way to create harmony ended up creating conflict, such is life I suppose.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I've already said what I want is to continue developing what they're doing, but if a change is needed, the smartest one would be to return to classic as that's what's recognized as quality. That's my logic- your proposition would just leave lots of fans of a ton of other styles wanting, whereas you seem to feel it'd genuinely cover the entire fanbase; and if you try to justify it as "but it'd improve Sonic with the audience and gamers and all" (which based on your Dying Light comparisons, it's what you seem to expect this mythical "Adventure" to do, while shoving the classics to mobile and portable so you can say "at least I'm thinking of them"), then reverting it all to classic would improve it even more, so just do that.

 

EDIT: Also

"considering that's half the series' span"

yeah

the bad half, as considered by a majority

you really can't justify this bizarre argument that there's a zero sum game where adventure is a needed result preferably in the consoles as anything other than "that's what I'd like to happen", which I mean, sure

more critically acclaimed or anticipated though or anything in thhose lines kek

Edited July 17, 2015 by The KKM

[Bowbowis]

I've already said what I want is to continue developing what they're doing, but if a change is needed, the smartest one would be to return to classic as that's what's recognized as quality. That's my logic- your proposition would just leave lots of fans of a ton of other styles wanting, whereas you seem to feel it'd genuinely cover the entire fanbase; and if you try to justify it as "but it'd improve Sonic with the audience and gamers and all" (which based on your Dying Light comparisons, it's what you seem to expect this mythical "Adventure" to do, while shoving the classics to mobile and portable so you can say "at least I'm thinking of them"), then reverting it all to classic would improve it even more, so just do that.

 

EDIT: Also

"considering that's half the series' span"

yeah

the bad half

Well that helps explain things to some extent, you're getting me mixed up with other people, I never mentioned Dying Light or making Sonic appeal to a mainstream audience, nor have I mentioned any kind of mythical Adventure game. As for you remark that the games following the basic layout of Adventure are the "bad half" of the series lifespan, well that's an opinion, not an argument and I think you'd find half the fanbase vehemently disagrees with you on that. In fact it's opinions like that which partially inspired my idea for splitting Sonic up. Allow me to briefly summarize my argument so far so that we're on the same page:

1. The Sonic fanbase is broken, one game is not going to appeal to everybody.

2. A possible way to allow both Classic and Modern fans to have what they want without forcing them to deal with the other type of game is to place more simple, cartoony, and lighthearted 2D games which build on the Classics on handheld and darker more complex and realistic 3D games which follow in the footsteps of the Adventures on console.

3. The reason why I placed Classic on handheld is not because it's less important or so that it will be ignored or forgotten about. It's because Classic-type games require less resources than the Adventure/Boost/What have you games and therefor aren't restricted by a less powerful system the way those games would be and they're a lot easier to play on smaller screens too. I made an entire post this morning entirely dedicated to explaining this.

4. Such a division is not necessarily a hard and fast rule, simply a guideline. I said multiple times that Classic Sonic games on console or Modern Sonic games on handheld are not out of the question, however it's paramount that they establish their coexistence first.

 

A final note is that although I've expressed a preference for the Adventure games I have specifically refrained from proscribing specific details for either type of game outside of handheld being 2D with non-gameplay elements taking after the '91-'97/'10-Present games while console games are 3D and take after the '98-'09 games in terms of non-gameplay elements. Anything beyond that is a whole other can of worms and really has no bearing on the concept of splitting things up to begin with. I wouldn't want either side of the franchise to be ignored or to stagnate, that goes against the whole point of splitting them. That both sides are treated with equal respect and are allowed to grow and evolve upon establishing a solid baseline is very important. I'm under no illusion that mine is a perfect solution that will please everybody and if you dislike it then you're well within your right to do so. I do not however believe any of my suggestions to be wholly unreasonable and I do think that my proposed arrangement would be a fair sight better than catering to one faction of the fanbase and ignoring all others.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Do you still not notice you're enforcing a half-and-half split that doesn't really exist, though?

[Diogenes]

 

2. A possible way to allow both Classic and Modern fans to have what they want without forcing them to deal with the other type of game is to place more simple, cartoony, and lighthearted 2D games which build on the Classics on handheld and darker more complex and realistic 3D games which follow in the footsteps of the Adventures on console.

Again, speaking as a Classic fan, this isn't what I want. I don't want games shackled to a 2D format or to the limits of a handheld. I want them to be able to grow beyond S3&K, not just repeat it. You may not be intending to make the Classic style secondary to the Adventure style, but that's exactly what this does.

[Bowbowis]

Again, speaking as a Classic fan, this isn't what I want. I don't want games shackled to a 2D format or to the limits of a handheld. I want them to be able to grow beyond S3&K, not just repeat it. You may not be intending to make the Classic style secondary to the Adventure style, but that's exactly what this does.

Point four and the final note are there specifically to help allay these exact concerns.

 

I wouldn't want either side of the franchise to be ignored or to stagnate, that goes against the whole point of splitting them. That both sides are treated with equal respect and are allowed to grow and evolve upon establishing a solid baseline is very important.

Neither side stagnates, both grow and evolve. The entire purpose of me putting that there is to ensure that games aren't endless rehashes of S3&K or Adventure 2/ Unleashed/whatever.

 

4. Such a division is not necessarily a hard and fast rule, simply a guideline. I said multiple times that Classic Sonic games on console or Modern Sonic games on handheld are not out of the question, however it's paramount that they establish their coexistence first.

I wan't to clarify that to me the difference between Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic as I'm thinking of them is not a cut and dry thing, there's a lot of overlap. While I would say keep handheld 2D and Console 3D other things can vary. When I say that Classic on handheld Modern on Console is a guideline I mean it's exactly that, a rule of thumb, something to base our expectations on. Generally the handheld games would be "lighter and softer," have simpler stories and aesthetically resemble the Classic games with the occasional Sonic Battle or Sonic Chronicles thrown in. Console game would tend toward darker fare more in the vein of Sonic Adventure 2 or Sonic and the Black Knight, broken up by the occasional Sonic Heroes and Sonic Colors. My ideal Sonic would be one where things like Green Hill, Little Planet, Badniks, Angel Island, Babylon Garden, Dark Gaia, Central City, ARK, and G.U.N. can coexist in harmony (at least from a meta perspective, G.U.N. and Badniks probably aren't actually in harmony with one another), so of course I'm not trying to create an absolute split between the two; I'm simply trying to create an arrangement where we have at least some idea what to expect from SEGA and where people can know that they have something to look forward to even if the current game isn't exactly to their tastes.

[Milo]

Maybe we can not pigeonhole each gameplay style and try to cross-pollinate elements into a gameplay that can attempt to satisfy our desires? Crazy as it sounds, the different styles of Sonic games aren't so radically different from each other that a hybrid of sorts can't be formulated.

I would be more inclined to believe this would work if Sonic Team's recent attempts at multiple demographic appeal weren't average at best and insulting at worst. Their attempt at making a game that appealed to Genesis fans and casual/modern fans resulted in Sonic 4, a game that managed to resonate best with people who didn't like the Genesis games. Sonic Lost World was some strange mishmash of appealing to fans of Mario/Nintendo games as well as general Sonic fans (with heavy leaning towards Genesis fans through the stylized aesthetics). Both Sonic Boom games (which Sonic Team supervised) were obviously focused on doing something else entirely (and in Rise of Lyric's case, was more-or-less juggling a bunch of stuff on its place) but later had some Sonic material awkwardly shoehorned in to appeal to fans of the series.

And that's not even to say earlier attempts to specifically please even one demographic were much better. Those who wanted a game that hearkened back to the Adventure formula had to either pick from Sonic 2006 or Sonic Unleashed.

I think its very telling that the one game that managed to obtain generally broad appeal / support with the fanbase was a game that boasted not only two different playstyles, but was also a game that featured two different depictions of the same character(s).

Edited July 19, 2015 by Gabe

[Nepenthe]

I don't think the merits of the idea should be in contention based on Sonic Team's current state of affairs. Because if that were the case, the most appropriate idea anyone could say would be to take this franchise out back already.

Just as well, Sonic Unleashed being a better game than Sonic 06 doesn't really correlate well just on the basis of the number of playable characters it has. Otherwise, it would be better than S3&K.

[Briraka]

I would be more inclined to believe this would work if Sonic Team's recent attempts at multiple demographic appeal weren't average at best and insulting at worst. Their attempt at making a game that appealed to Genesis fans and casual/modern fans resulted in Sonic 4, a game that managed to resonate best with people who didn't like the Genesis games. Sonic Lost World was some strange mishmash of appealing to fans of Mario/Nintendo games as well as general Sonic fans (with heavy leaning towards Genesis fans through the stylized aesthetics). Both Sonic Boom games (which Sonic Team supervised) were obviously focused on doing something else entirely (and in Rise of Lyric's case, was more-or-less juggling a bunch of stuff on its place) but later had some Sonic material awkwardly shoehorned in to appeal to fans of the series.

And that's not even to say earlier attempts to specifically please even one demographic were much better. Those who wanted a game that hearkened back to the Adventure formula had to either pick from Sonic 2006 or Sonic Unleashed.

I think its very telling that the one game that managed to obtain generally broad appeal / support with the fanbase was a game that boasted not only two different playstyles, but was also a game that featured two different depictions of the same character(s).

I was typing that under the assumption that it be well received, but I've thought it over and come to the conclusion that even if ST did make a hybrid gameplay style with a lot of care and thought put into it, the fanbase wouldn't even notice because of how opinionated we can be about our preferences. So yeah, I'd hope that a hybrid could work, but I expect everyone to feel like they got screwed and go back to typing "bring back the old Sonic!"

yaaaaayyy cynicism... :'V

[Bowbowis]

I was typing that under the assumption that it be well received, but I've thought it over and come to the conclusion that even if ST did make a hybrid gameplay style with a lot of care and thought put into it, the fanbase wouldn't even notice because of how opinionated we can be about our preferences. So yeah, I'd hope that a hybrid could work, but I expect everyone to feel like they got screwed and go back to typing "bring back the old Sonic!"

You know, I often get the impression that there's a lot less division on the topic of how Sonic games should play than people think there actually is. I've seen people at each others throats over whether Sonic should play like he did in the classics but in 3D or whether he should play like he did in the Adventures. They're the same damn thing really, these people at war over a matter of semantics (alternatively the people asking for Classic Sonic in 3D are looking for something other than Classic gameplay with a Z-axis, in which case they really need to be more specific on what exactly it is that they want). Other than that though the grand majority of the people I've seen are asking for Classic Sonic's pinball physics to be incorporated in modern games and most everybody seems to agree that parkour is a good idea too, even if Lost World might have dropped the ball on implementation. As far as I can tell the biggest point of contention seems to be whether Sonic should have the Spindash or the Boost, and even then the two aren't necessarily incompatible, in fact here are six ways they could work in the same game:

 

1. The Boost works like it did in the Advance games, activating after Sonic holds top speed for a period of time, with that period getting shorter the more rings he has.

2. The Spindash replaces the Boost when the gauge is empty.

3. Boost gameplay fills the same role as '06's mach-speed sections.

4. Boost gameplay is used for special stages or mini-games/multiplayer races.

5. Sonic uses the Spindash normally but it's replaced by the Boost when he enters Super Form.

6. Spindash and Boost are used by different characters. For example Sonic might Spindash while Shadow Boosts via Chaos Control.

 

Food for thought at any rate.

[Diogenes]

 As far as I can tell the biggest point of contention seems to be whether Sonic should have the Spindash or the Boost, and even then the two aren't necessarily incompatible, in fact here are six ways they could work in the same game:

The problem isn't finding a way to wedge both of them into the same game, it's that the gameplay styles they support are very different. Simply having the move doesn't please either side, and the two philosophies are too incompatible to fuse.

Basically the spindash philosophy is that the spindash itself is a sort of emergency move, and the better you play, the less you use it. There's a cost in stopping to charge it, so it's often better to just keep moving and make use of the slope physics to gain speed unless you're already nearly stopped. The boost philosophy, on the other hand, is that the boost is meant to be used as much as possible, to maintain a consistent top speed regardless of terrain. The only limitation is keeping the meter full, which most boost games have been fairly generous about, supporting the idea that a good player will probably never run dry.

If you have reliable boost fuel, there's no point in slope physics or using the spindash, because the boost supersedes them. If you don't have reliable boost fuel, then you can't maintain the constant super-speed that the boost has almost always provided (at least not without superhuman skill). The two philosophies can't exist simultaneously, so either one dominates and the other side loses, or they alternate and neither side is fully satisfied.

[shdowhunt60]

You sure about that? Because there were parts where, especially in S3&K, where you're basically required to use the spindash. And if you're not required to do it, then using it liberally certainly helps.

[Bowbowis]

The problem isn't finding a way to wedge both of them into the same game, it's that the gameplay styles they support are very different. Simply having the move doesn't please either side, and the two philosophies are too incompatible to fuse.

Basically the spindash philosophy is that the spindash itself is a sort of emergency move, and the better you play, the less you use it. There's a cost in stopping to charge it, so it's often better to just keep moving and make use of the slope physics to gain speed unless you're already nearly stopped. The boost philosophy, on the other hand, is that the boost is meant to be used as much as possible, to maintain a consistent top speed regardless of terrain. The only limitation is keeping the meter full, which most boost games have been fairly generous about, supporting the idea that a good player will probably never run dry.

If you have reliable boost fuel, there's no point in slope physics or using the spindash, because the boost supersedes them. If you don't have reliable boost fuel, then you can't maintain the constant super-speed that the boost has almost always provided (at least not without superhuman skill). The two philosophies can't exist simultaneously, so either one dominates and the other side loses, or they alternate and neither side is fully satisfied.

I'm aware of the differences of philosophy, it's not like I simply said to throw the Boost on one button and the Spindash on another and call it good. As you said that would either make the Spindash redundant or require the Boost to be nerfed into oblivion. I accounted for that and as a result each possibility I listed (with the exception of  #2) either keeps the Boost and Spindash separate or treats the Boost as a reward. Allow me to explain a little more in depth.

Possibilities # 3, 4, and 6 all keep the Boost and Spindash entirely separate, either by having the Boost restricted to things like Special Stages and Mach-Speed type segments or by having Boost and Spindash be abilities for different characters. In any of these scenarios the Boost and Spindash are never available for use simultaneously so the design philosophy only needs to cater to one or the other at any given time. Of course the downside with this (for #3 and #4 at least) is that the Boost gameplay is restricted to certain segments, which could understandably rub some people the wrong way.

#2 is my least favorite option of the six, at least in part because it totally subjugates the Spindash to the Boost. Essentially this takes the idea of the Spindash being an emergency move to the logical extreme by having it serve as a way to get some extra speed when you're out of Boost energy. Of course you probably wouldn't be seeing much of the Spindash if it's used in this capacity considering that Sonic has taken in Boost energy hand over fist in every game up to this point. That said raising the skill threshold on maintaining a constant Boost, at least to the point that running out of energy could become a realistic concern, might not be such a bad idea. After all there's a lot between handing it out like candy on Halloween and making it rarer than diamonds.

#5 is pretty self explanatory. Under normal circumstances Sonic uses the Spindash but when he goes Super the Spindash is replaced with the Boost. In this way the Boost both remains separate from the Spindash, as they're never really available for use at the the same time, and is treated as a reward by way of being an extension of Super Sonic, who's already a reward in and of himself. Of course this scenario still leaves the availability of Boost energy in question (at least assuming the Boost isn't infinite or that it doesn't run off Sonic's ring counter).

If you ask me #1 is the best way to implement the Boost alongside the Spindash, if not the best way to implement the Boost altogether. This method of incorporating the Boost alters it to fit with the Spindash philosophy, essentially turning it into the carrot in a stick/carrot arrangement. The Spindash is the stick, it's a useful crutch for unskilled players, allowing them to get the speed they need to continue throughout the level, but it does so at the cost of requiring a lot of start and stop. The Boost, as previously mentioned, is the carrot, it rewards skilled players who can collect lots of rings and avoid slowing down by allowing them to push past the normal top speed after maintaining it for a certain (ring dependent) amount of time. Unlike Unleashed and the like this Boost is not artificially limited by a meter or similar, instead the duration of the Boost is entirely determined by the player's skill, so long as you can avoid coming to a dead stop you can keep Boosting to the end of the stage. Granted I don't know how this version of the Boost would sit with fans of the Boost games as it does remove the instant gratification aspect, all I can say is that I personally would find that kind of speed a lot more satisfying if I had to earn it for myself instead of simply getting it at the touch of a button. At any rate this option definitely can work, the Advance games are proof enough of that.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Bowbowis

[Indigo Rush]

Part 3 is out!