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Ghostbusters "Who ya gonna call? The Meh busters!"


Badnik Mechanic

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No one is saying that the only reason this film has been slammed is because of sexism.

People are saying that one of the reasons this film has been slammed is because of sexism.

If you're not one of the people who has an issue with the fact that the protagonists are women, or if you're not specifically being accused of making an argument rooted in sexism, then this doesn't really concern you and you can go on about your business.

Instead, if every time someone merely mentions "sexism" your argument starts with "Sexism isn't a/the reason this film is getting slammed!!!" then doth protest too much. If there is plenty of reason to dislike the film, you can make an argument that isn't defensive.

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19 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

I actually don't think the backlash to Ghostbusters is because of sexism. Think about the state of the Ghostbusters franchise. The last Ghostbusters movie was released in 1989. In other words, the last Ghostbusters film was 26 years ago. Fans have been asking for a Ghostbusters 3 for DECADES. Instead, they get a poorly done remake of the original Ghostbusters. To people that are only casually interested in the series, this movie may not seem like a big deal, but for longtime fans, this must seem like a huge slap in the face. There are worse movies out there, and there are certainly worse licensed movies out there, but those movies were brushed aside because fans had been getting other good adaptations for a long time, and they continued to get those good adaptations. Ghostbusters, on the other hand, has only this. It is an understandable reaction, and chalking it up to sexism is incredibly unfair for those that have legitimate grips with this movie. Also, if so many people hate female characters in movies, then why is Alien such a popular and well-loved film, even to this day?

If they made alien today I wonder if it wouldn't be the target of some dumb anti feminist brigade.

as for re: Ghostbusters backlash, if the quality factor is the only reason people are angry, why didn't we see this kind of reaction, as Nepenthe said, to TMNT  or Transformers? Total Recall 2012?  Robocop 2014 (note: robocop is way better than ghostbusters) All of which are just 80s revivals off the top of my head that were/are super shitty and super not faithful. People dislike these movies, but it's nothing like the vitriolic anger that gets lobbed at Ghostbusters. 

Are there people who don't like it just because they're disappointed? Sure! But i think they're getting caught up in a bigger storm of blatant sexism 

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Personally, the development cycle of this film on top of the overall result is what gives me such a bad taste in my mouth whenever I bring this up. The film itself doesn't seem any more horrible than many hollywood cash grab reboots/remakes, but the way this transformed from Ghostbusters 3, to this, and the shady nature of directors getting shafted and replaced, and said current directors history, it just really makes me ask why more than anything. Like, was the original idea and film that bad that Sony felt it wouldn't do well? The concept from what I heard sounded promising(Some of the original GB teaching a new generation), and the use of the original cast seemed way better than what the supposed leak for this film has them as. 

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I will likely write up a more detailed post later in terms of my exact issues, but I agree with Nep in part. I think what James did was an incredibly stupid move because he didn't actually back up his reasoning well. As in his reasoning was "Well it's called Ghostbusters which will somehow confuse people". I mean the better reasoning would be "This feels like another cash cow reboot that just takes advantage of a classic movie for a quick buck, while likely not retaining any of the qualities that made it loved to begin with". 

But the closest situation to this and the better example is The Blockbuster Buster. He outright refused to see TMNT 2014, because he felt it was just a cash in on a beloved series which already has a very good adaption running (TMNT 2012), and he stated Michael Bay's Transformers film as to why he knows it won't be good. To be fair to him, he really did back up his reasoning for not wanting to see TMNT 2014. He didn't make a big deal out of it, just mentioning it at the end of another TMNT video and simply explaining he felt it was gonna be a crap cash in, and he flat out wasn't going to talk about it outside of that video because he didn't want to give it any mention.

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Oh come on. James's career right now is specifically about making videos about movies and games, especially related to old times and nostalgia. Doing the video isn't stupid, it's basic costumer service considering what he does. It's no martyrdom, and for this specific, it IS worth pointing out the sexism part is bullshit when he's being attacked for it when his argument is instead purely about remakes.

So he did a video that's meant to

1- Explain to an audience expecting him to do something why he won't do it

2- Explaining why he'll be taking the "don't pay to see what you don't like" attitude more often

3- Setting up the additional video explaining the history of Ghostbusters 3 he posted next day

And for this got Hollywood people hounding him. Fuck's sake. I disagree with you entirely here. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't do anything dumb, he's got no blame here, he didn't do any overreaction (fuck's sake he's calm as all hell, he's James Rolfe not a character, his shtick about suffering through crap is a character-specific thing otherwise his shtick is just "talk about movies and games") considering the context of what he usually does and how the film's reception was already exaggerated anyways. But no, I guess from now on just do tweets or shut up, although obviously even that's not going to save you from being the next person for all these people who campaign for good things and are assholes to drag around as an example of how bad the demographics they're targetting actually are!

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Customer service? His job is to put out content on whatever the fuck he wants to. There is no legal or contractual responsibility he has to cover the film so there is nothing to really explain that warrants this much effort. I follow people like Jim Sterling who don't necessarily always cover what I think they will cover in any given episode, if at all. I don't email him and ask him to explain why because "I'm a customer." If anything this only exemplifies the entitlement I'm talking about. On top of that, people like Sterling tend to just make a really quick aside (or a tweet, that thing which I never argued is a person's only other recourse) about why they're not going to cover something that seems pertinent and just keep it moving.

And it is martyrdom in the sense that a huge reason for him not doing the review is that this film is such a personal affront to his childhood and fandom and thus he has to take a stand without really differentiating why Ghostbusters is particularly different from any other shitty remake he has lived through thus far, which in turn is not fundamentally any different from the majority of this weird sense of pride and responsibility nerds are conjuring up by demonstrating that they're not gonna take this grand injustice anymore through obviously skewed downvote campaigns, completely refusing to entertain the idea that misogyny is afoot- even in a minority of people- and ironically enough engaging in and/or being complicit to similar harassment that the cast and crew have been privy to for around two years. The fact that he's calm in the video doesn't actually mean anything. You can be calm and still say or do something dumb.

Also, people in high places are probably hounding him mainly because nerds are- once again- making a huge deal about something which has yet to justify itself as warranting this much anger and self righteousness, and probably used his video as a springboard to say really dumbass or offensive shit all over social media about the film and the people involved in it once again, thus bringing his video to these people's attention. Just a thought. I don't think Patton Oswalt and the like give a shit about The AVGN otherwise.

The video is dumb. Nerds being defensive that they're denying sexism everywhere once again like we learned nothing from Gamergate is dumb. The general sense of victimization on part of these people is dumb. The threats and obscenely personal attacks on both sides is dumb. The dismissal of the trailers' quality as reasons to dislike or be skeptical of the production is dumb. That's the thing- no one is a winner here, because the well has been poisoned for years by manchildren thrashing about this film to the point that it's come to this. The key here is to recognize that the well has been poisoned and not to further shit in it, less you open yourself up to association with the unsavory demographics camping out amongst the general group of people who are unhappy with this film.

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"The dismissal of the trailers' quality as reasons to dislike or be skeptical of the production is dumb. "

Isn't the point of a trailer to give an idea of the quality and product? So why is it dumb for people to be skeptical, or not like what they've seen? 

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21 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Customer service? His job is to put out content on whatever the fuck he wants to. There is no legal or contractual responsibility he has to cover the film so there is nothing to really explain that warrants this much effort. I follow people like Jim Sterling who don't necessarily always cover what I think they will cover in any given episode, if at all. I don't email him and ask him to explain why because "I'm a customer." If anything this only exemplifies the entitlement I'm talking about. On top of that, people like Sterling tend to just make a really quick aside (or a tweet, that thing which I never argued is a person's only other recourse) about why they're not going to cover something that seems pertinent and just keep it moving.

And it is martyrdom in the sense that a huge reason for him not doing the review is that this film is such a personal affront to his childhood and fandom and thus he has to take a stand without really differentiating why Ghostbusters is particularly different from any other shitty remake he has lived through thus far, which in turn is not fundamentally any different from the majority of this weird sense of pride and responsibility nerds are conjuring up by demonstrating that they're not gonna take this grand injustice anymore through obviously skewed downvote campaigns, completely refusing to entertain the idea that misogyny is afoot- even in a minority of people- and ironically enough engaging in and/or being complicit to similar harassment that the cast and crew have been privy to for around two years. The fact that he's calm in the video doesn't actually mean anything. You can be calm and still say or do something dumb.

Also, people in high places are probably hounding him mainly because nerds are- once again- making a huge deal about something which has yet to justify itself as warranting this much anger and self righteousness, and probably used his video as a springboard to say really dumbass or offensive shit all over social media about the film and the people involved in it once again, thus bringing his video to these people's attention. Just a thought. I don't think Patton Oswalt and the like give a shit about The AVGN otherwise.

The video is dumb. Nerds being defensive that they're denying sexism everywhere once again like we learned nothing from Gamergate is dumb. The general sense of victimization on part of these people is dumb. The threats and obscenely personal attacks on both sides is dumb. The dismissal of the trailers' quality as reasons to dislike or be skeptical of the production is dumb. That's the thing- no one is a winner here, because the well has been poisoned for years by manchildren thrashing about this film to the point that it's come to this. The key here is to recognize that the well has been poisoned and not to further shit in it, less you open yourself up to association with the unsavory demographics camping out amongst the general group of people who are unhappy with this film.

 

No, I'm sorry, I'm disagreeing entirely here. You don't get to have established pros attacking what's comparatively effectively a random joe and go "well he was dumb to start it anyways and it's the fans fault". If you've made for years effectively a career of talking about a specific thing, and then won't talk about it, it certainly deserves explaining why. No-one should be forced to relate to their audience in a way that's "convenient and short", either, especially considering that he wanted to say more than just "I won't watch it". And what martyrdom is it required to say "eh that's enough"? If he'd done this video about Robocop, would it be martyrdom still? Can't it have taken more films, with more polemic, for his glass to be filled and him to go "I'm dropping this"?

There is martyrdom here, yes, but not initiated by him. He, as far as I can see, is dealing amazingly with this by not even reacting to it. Doesn't excuse the actions others are taking. Both on the side "defending him", but ALSO ON THE SIDE ATTACKING HIM. The one that on this stuff is always given carte blanche. It's always the anonymous masses attacked, but the people pinpointable as big individuals with influence calling others "limp dicks" and "golddiggers", oh those get a free pass because hey, they're part of the clique, they're friends with friends and people like them! No, bullshit. I don't give much of a fuck about the film (the ghosts seem interesting, I don't like McCarthy, don't know Leslie Jones but I liked her response to the racism accusations, don't really know anyone else in the main cast), but I'm not going to forgive this shit regardless because it gets to happen over and over and over again.

 

No-one is a winner, but you're also refusing to accept agency by more people who're poisoning the well than the ever eternal easy to attack "manchildren".

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Huh, was I the only one that found Leslie's race/gender joke kinda eh lol? I  mean I've done race jokes as dumb as that, so eh, can't judge haha.

If there is one thing I'll give the movie, Hemsworth seems enjoyable, and goofy enough even if he isn't super great in it.

Plus I'm always up for some sex aooeal when it comes to Chris lol.

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47 minutes ago, KHCast said:


"The dismissal of the trailers' quality as reasons to dislike or be skeptical of the production is dumb. "

Isn't the point of a trailer to give an idea of the quality and product? So why is it dumb for people to be skeptical, or not like what they've seen? 

You misunderstand. I'm saying there are reasons to dislike the film based on the trailers, and that shouldn't be dismissed by people who are nonetheless rightfully concerned with the sexist undercurrent that's running through the general dissatisfaction with this film. 

Also, the racism joke is amusing but not overly funny or anything. It has a set up and makes sense, but it's a bit too on the nose. 

@The KKM You keep doing this thing where you keep trying to paint Rolfe as the only victim here and a victim of things that no one is saying, further demonstrating the immature ridiculousness of this whole row, because suggesting an alternate course of action in the midst criticizing someone's not "forcing" them to do anything. Rolfe can do whatever he wants to, but the caveat of that freedom is that people get the right to voice their thoughts on his actions. I've also already said that any personal attacks or threats are over the line and am not excusing anything. However, this doesn't mean he is above reproach either.

Robocop is a film that demonstrates my point. He didn't make a big fuss explaining why he wouldn't cover it because there was no reason to, both in terms of it not being anything special since bad remakes aren't anything new and subsequently fanboys not having lost their shit and creating an overly hostile and aggrieved environment surrounding the film. He treated it like he should've treated Ghostbusters.

Also, don't even try to say that the issue here is primarily the fault of or originated from people who like or are apathetic to the film. The culture surrounding this movie is squarely the result of dissatisfied fans expressing their anger through an exaggerated firestorm of focused negativity, casual sexism, and harassment of crew coupled with simultaneous denial that their behavior was ever wrong or over the line, instead saying it was all about ethics in remaking films. Again, it's basically Gamergate Lite, and while that doesn't excuse the behavior of people against the fandom, that in and of itself doesn't excuse the original and sustained shitshow. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

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I won't try to say it, and thank god I didn't. What I said was, only one side gets attacked for this shit. The other side? Gets to continue happily carrying on their bullshit, distorting and lying as they want. Remember the droves of angry sexist MRA people who were refusing to see Mad Max? You shouldn't, because it was just one website that people like the ones attacking Rolfe now propped as an easy example to attack. Which is what they're doing to Rolfe now.

There's obviously sexist backlash against the movie. Rolfe was not being part of it. He had his video and face spread around as "LOOK AT THIS SEXIST DICKWAD" for it. So no, I'm not dropping things like this. The shitshow's not justifiable, but as you say, the behaviour of the people against the fandom isn't either. Which is why I'll keep pointing out how their behaviour was shit in this case, and how trying to divert attention to "but Rolfe was dumb too" is irrelevant because that's not the point. Because neither behaviour's excusable, but only one of those "behaviours" will see the "top brass" try to correct it without correcting their part in this bullshit themselves.

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Please; one side is not getting away with anything. The people who comparatively don't care about the film, and top brass who've done nothing but simply make a disagreeable film, have been resoundingly attacked and harassed from the get-go in various forms. It just seems that only now that a high-profile nerd- a member of the community, a true fan just like the rest of us- has gotten mixed up in it all that fans are suddenly pissed about undue harassment and strawmanning towards others. Would've been nice if this attitude took hold a few years ago.

Also, it's impossible to "divert attention" away from Rolfe because he is the catalyst for this particular tangent. He made a dumb video on dumb pretenses that fits into the dumb culture surrounding this dumb movie ( which as I've argued is not just about sexism but also about how shitty nerd culture in general is, which the video only really adds to). However, anyone harassing him for things he didn't do or say are also dumb. This isn't a one-or-the-other thing.

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So because of previous events, it's acceptable and permissible for them to do what they're doing to Rolfe? You say no, but then also say "oh they're not getting away with it anyways".

I want accountability for dragging a youtube guy randomly and slandering him about. I don't care about the movie, its controversy, its response. I'm talking about this specific event, specifically happening on the last few days, by these specific people. Trying to refocus this on the movie is diverting attention. The movie's irrelevant. It could be any movie, it wouldn't excuse people with power in the industry attacking one guy for making a video for his fans explaining why he won't watch a movie. THAT's what I'm mad about, THAT's what I'm not forgiving. THAT's what I'm going to consider as "they got away with it" until I see Oswalt, Faraci, and the like doing a public apology about siccing their audiences on people.

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You keep asking questions I've already answered. You should read my posts to understand how I feel about Rolfe's harassment. Also, what accountability do you want to happen?

Furthermore, your intent to try to divorce the video from the film and its cultural context is, again, indicative of the GG-esque behavior that has caused everything to spiral out of control. You say you wouldn't care if it was another movie. The point is it's not another movie because for some reason other movies that do the same thing Ghostbusters is doing didn't piss in people's cereal and cause nerds to get it in their heads that they're fighting for something, which is the victimized mentality that caused Rolfe to make the video in the first place.

If you want nothing more than to see justice for Rolfe or whatever, then that's your right, but from my end it's little more than hypocritical grandstanding for the nerd you can more easily relate to in light of everyone who has gotten shit on for Ghostbusters before Rolfe.

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10 hours ago, skull902 said:

I get what you mean, but there are plenty of remade movies that have the exact same title as the original. The Omen, Halloween, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, etc. Kinda weird I could only think of horror examples but still.

But yeah, the criticism James has been getting is pretty ridiculous. He barely even mentioned the new Ghostbusters being female, let alone attacking the movie for it. Some people will go to any extreme to blame something for sexism when it's not actually there and this is far from the only instance. Rather sad that those same people are the ones being sided with in the mass media and elsewhere.

Uh, I was making fun of one of the things he actually said in the video. That you have to Specify which Ghostbusters you're talking about. Which is stupid.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Uh, I was making fun of one of the things he actually said in the video. That you have to Specify which Ghostbusters you're talking about. Which is stupid.

Sarcasm's a bit harder to tell through text sometimes.

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8 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

You keep asking questions I've already answered. You should read my posts to understand how I feel about Rolfe's harassment. Also, what accountability do you want to happen?

Furthermore, your intent to try to divorce the video from the film and its cultural context is, again, indicative of the GG-esque behavior that has caused everything to spiral out of control. You say you wouldn't care if it was another movie. The point is it's not another movie because for some reason other movies that do the same thing Ghostbusters is doing didn't piss in people's cereal and cause nerds to get it in their heads that they're fighting for something, which is the victimized mentality that caused Rolfe to make the video in the first place.

If you want nothing more than to see justice for Rolfe or whatever, then that's your right, but from my end it's little more than hypocritical grandstanding for the nerd you can more easily relate to in light of everyone who has gotten shit on for Ghostbusters before Rolfe.

When did anyone say any of the things that you are saying right now? You are presuming people's motivations, and then proclaiming their guilt based on those presumptions. You said that Rolfe made that video because he feels "victimized". Where is the proof for this claim? He merely said that he did not like what he saw of the movie, and that he was not going to watch it. Do people feel "victimized" when they watch a bad movie and talk about how bad it is? Also, saying that you see The KKM as a hypocritical grandstander for simply caring about what happens to Rolfe is incredibly rude.

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Rolfe specifically says that his problem with the film is not even that it looks bad (the normal reason people don't go see movies), but rather that "it's Ghostbusters, a celebrated franchise," as if Ghostbusters is the only celebrated franchise in the history of cinema. He doesn't go on to clarify why the film is different or more egregious than other franchises that have undergone the exact same treatment; he's just personally offended and hurt by this film's existence, thus he spent a longer amount of time than necessary explaining why he wouldn't see it. It's even more ridiculous when people- including him- continuously note that there's so many arguments to make against the film that don't come off as fanboys wounded that they didn't get what they wanted (mainly as a way to bat away claims of misogyny). The jokes aren't funny, the characters seem flatter, the special effects aren't great, etc. etc.. These are arguments he could have made and ultimately condensed down into "the film just looks like garbage." But nope; instead we get this spiel about how Ghostbusters is so special and magical and above reproach that he had to take a stand and over-explain what is in actuality a very simple premise. It's ridiculous.

Also, I'm not saying he's hypocritical for caring about Rolfe. I'm saying he's hypocritical for only caring about what has happened to Rolfe throughout this whole controversy. The initial announcement that the cast was to be female led to what Feig called "some of the most vile, misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life." One of the cast members publicly stated that they were facing harassment to the point that they were debating leaving Twitter, so Feig had to step in and tell people "Leave my cast alone." Feig, in turn, was basically told to fuck off by the fandom and that he and the cast simply "couldn't handle criticism." This is not kosher behavior on part of the fans and nerd community, but the targets were top brass celebrities so it's fine I guess.

But this has been my argument in general: everything that has happened to not just Rolfe but the cast and crew that extends out of the bounds of criticism of their respective products and the artistic intent behind them has been indefensible. This is a really piss poor situation all around, but I charge it would not have actually been like this had the nerds not thrown such a shitfit and felt so victimized about the film that they engaged in a concerted effort to poison the well for years and thus amplify the discourse on both sides, like they've managed to treat any other remake or reboot of a beloved nostalgic property (except for maybe Star Wars; Star Wars fans are fucking insane). Subsequently, these entitled, defensive, victimized feelings driving the negativity are the same ones underscoring Rolfe's video. People are excessively pissed off, and Rolfe specifically says he made the video, simply because Ghostbusters is this super special magical property that necessitates people shit the bed for some reason that has yet to be revealed.

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2 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Rolfe specifically says that his problem with the film is not even that it looks bad (the normal reason people don't go see movies), but rather that "it's Ghostbusters, a celebrated franchise," as if Ghostbusters is the only celebrated franchise in the history of cinema. He doesn't go on to clarify why the film is different or more egregious than other franchises that have undergone the exact same treatment; he's just personally offended and hurt by this film's existence, thus he spent a longer amount of time than necessary explaining why he wouldn't see it. It's even more ridiculous when people- including him- continuously note that there's so many arguments to make against the film that don't come off as fanboys wounded that they didn't get what they wanted (mainly as a way to bat away claims of misogyny). The jokes aren't funny, the characters seem flatter, the special effects aren't great, etc. etc.. These are arguments he could have made and ultimately condensed down into "the film just looks like garbage." But nope; instead we get this spiel about how Ghostbusters is so special and magical and above reproach that he had to take a stand and over-explain what is in actuality a very simple premise. It's ridiculous.

Also, I'm not saying he's hypocritical for caring about Rolfe. I'm saying he's hypocritical for only caring about what has happened to Rolfe throughout this whole controversy. The initial announcement that the cast was to be female led to what Feig called "some of the most vile, misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life." One of the cast members publicly stated that they were facing harassment to the point that they were debating leaving Twitter, so Feig had to step in and tell people "Leave my cast alone." Feig, in turn, was basically told to fuck off by the fandom and that he and the cast simply "couldn't handle criticism." This is not kosher behavior on part of the fans and nerd community, but the targets were top brass celebrities so it's fine I guess.

But this has been my argument in general: everything that has happened to not just Rolfe but the cast and crew that extends out of the bounds of criticism of their respective products and the artistic intent behind them has been indefensible. This is a really piss poor situation all around, but I charge it would not have actually been like this had the nerds not thrown such a shitfit and felt so victimized about the film that they engaged in a concerted effort to poison the well for years and thus amplify the discourse on both sides, like they've managed to treat any other remake or reboot of a beloved nostalgic property (except for maybe Star Wars; Star Wars fans are fucking insane). Subsequently, these entitled, defensive, victimized feelings driving the negativity are the same ones underscoring Rolfe's video. People are excessively pissed off, and Rolfe specifically says he made the video, simply because Ghostbusters is this super special magical property that necessitates people shit the bed for some reason that has yet to be revealed.

Why are you attacking Rolfe's reason for not wanting to see the movie? He doesn't say that he's not going to watch it simply because it has the Ghostbusters name, he says he doesn't want to watch it because it is a lazy, badly done cashgrab that is simply trying to bank on the Ghostbusters name. I play bad games all the time, but I specifically did not buy Shadow the Hedgehog when it came out because I did not want to support the current direction that Sonic Team was going in. Is my reason for not buying Shadow the Hedgehog ridiculous now? Also, you keep attacking this nebulous entity called "nerds". Ah yes, it's those stupid nerds that have been poisoning the well and not the people who compare dislike of the movie to support of the National Socialist German Workers' Party!

 

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I am going to quote near verbatim what he says in his own video at 1:46.

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"My problem I have with the movie, it's not the fact that it looks bad. Sure, the jokes in the trailer make you cringe, the ghost effects are on par with the live-action Scooby Doo or Disney's Haunted Mansion- you know, the one with Eddie Murphy....So it looks bad. Fine. I watch a lot of bad movies, you know? I see a ton of bad movies, knowingly, and with pleasure. But this isn't just any movie. This is Ghostbusters; it's one of the most celebrated franchises ever."

He literally goes against your argument and says that the film's quality isn't the main problem, which is weird when the trailers aren't all that great and you can make the easiest argument against the film based on that alone. It's the fact that it's a "celebrated franchise" that "shares the same title as the original film." It's a flimsy pretense in light of the real issue that fails to separate itself from the rest of the chaff that has been nearly the whole campaign against this film. That's why I'm criticizing him.

And you're damn right I'm (actually) attacking nerds. They elevated the tone of the discourse way beyond what was necessary by first attacking the cast, attacking the crew, and attacking anyone who had a problem with their general behavior and the misogynistic strands of the childish rage over a goddamn movie in a "franchise" with arguably only one good piece of media in it, and now they want to complain and cry and whine and victimize themselves now that they're getting dumb shit thrown back at them.

I'm sorry, but as a person engrossed in fandom culture myself I'm not giving any affected parties anymore sympathy than I will give the victims of their own harassment, because I'm tired of fandoms and nerds always acting so entitled and self-righteous and indignant over their media consumption habits, and then turning into hypocritical asshats by saying "Now things are being taken too far!" when creators have had enough of their batshit insanity and finally tell them to go fuck themselves. Full stop: It is fucking ridiculous that actual adults in 2016 are acting like this over this film. It's about as bad DC movie fans deluding themselves into conspiracies that the entire world of critics are paid off by Disney to give the Marvel films higher scores. 

Fans: Just take a second, breathe, and fucking stop. Go get some fresh air or something. The world will keep turning despite a potentially bad Ghostbusters film.

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35 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I am going to quote near verbatim what he says in his own video at 1:46.

He literally goes against your argument and says that the film's quality isn't the main problem, which is weird when the trailers aren't all that great and you can make the easiest argument against the film based on that alone. It's the fact that it's a "celebrated franchise" that "shares the same title as the original film.

You are deliberately misinterpreting what he is saying. He doesn't think the Ghostbusters name is magical and that any remake of it is horrible. He specifically states that there is no point in making another Ghostbusters if you are going to throw out all of the characters and the old plot and just keep the basic premise of fighting ghosts. Imagine if a Superman movie completely changes Superman's backstory (gives him a new outfit, new name, etc.) and then just kept the crime fighting aspect. And then imagine if they called it "Superman". Just Superman, as if that embodied what the series was. Wouldn't you be mad too? He also brings up examples of how he would have liked a remake to be done:

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But I don't understand; if this new film wants to be a reboot, then why couldn't it take note from all the successful reboots that came before, like Star Trek. You have a younger cast but you also have it rooted in the lore of the original series. You have a Leonard Nimoy playing an old Spock passing the torch to a younger Spock.

He is not watching the movie because it does not accurately represent what the original movies were. It just like the example I used in my previous post of how I didn't buy Shadow the Hedgehog because I didn't like the direction Sonic Team was taking the games. Seriously, why are you so hung up on this? He's done nothing but explain why HE doesn't want to see the movie. You said that the real problem you have with his video is that:

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It's a flimsy pretense in light of the real issue that fails to separate itself from the rest of the chaff that has been nearly the whole campaign against this film. That's why I'm criticizing him.

This is guilt by association. He never claimed to have been speaking for all people that dislike this movie, or that he is a part of the "campaign" against this film. You have grouped everyone that dislikes this film into a category, and you claim that they have all started some sort of organized campaign against this film, AND that James Rolfe is a part of this campaign. Do you have any evidence for these claims? Any basis at all for these remarks?

1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

And you're damn right I'm (actually) attacking nerds. They elevated the tone of the discourse beyond way beyond what was necessary by first attacking the cast, attacking the crew, and attacking anyone who had a problem with their general behavior and the misogynistic strands of the childish rage over a goddamn movie in a "franchise" with arguably only one good piece of media in it, and now they want to complain and cry and whine and victimize themselves now that they're getting dumb shit thrown back at them.

I'm sorry, but as a person engrossed in fandom culture myself I'm not giving any affected parties anymore sympathy than I will give the victims of their own harassment, because I'm tired of fandoms and nerds always acting so entitled and self-righteous and indignant over their media consumption habits, and then turning into hypocritical asshats by saying "Now things are being taken too far!" when creators have had enough of their batshit insanity and finally tell them to go fuck themselves. Full stop: It is fucking ridiculous that actual adults in 2016 are acting like this over this film. It's about as bad DC movie fans deluding themselves into conspiracies that the entire world of critics are paid off by Disney to give the Marvel films higher scores. 

Fans: Just take a second, breathe, and fucking stop. Go get some fresh air or something. The world will keep turning despite a potentially bad Ghostbusters film.

So James Rolfe has harassed people? That's news to me. You said that you would not give any sympathy to affected parties (James Rolfe) than you will give to the victims of their own harassment. So you won't give sympathy to James Rolfe because of something he never did. Great logic! And the people who say that attacking James Rolfe is going too far are batshit insane. Very interesting. Oh and also, fans PAY for what creators create. It's not like they are getting this shit for free. They are paying their hard earned cash for this shit, so of course they want it to be a movie that appeals to their tastes. If you don't want to market to fans, that's fine, just don't get upset and called them entitled when they dislike the movie and refuse to watch it.

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47 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

You are deliberately misinterpreting what he is saying. He doesn't think the Ghostbusters name is magical and that any remake of it is horrible. He specifically states that there is no point in making another Ghostbusters if you are going to throw out all of the characters and the old plot and just keep the basic premise of fighting ghosts. Imagine if a Superman movie completely changes Superman's backstory (gives him a new outfit, new name, etc.) and then just kept the crime fighting aspect. And then imagine if they called it "Superman". Just Superman, as if that embodied what the series was. Wouldn't you be mad too? He also brings up examples of how he would have liked a remake to be done:

Where are they completely throwing out the old plot? The library scene, the fact that the founders are kicked out of their university where they're employed, dumb secretary, the huge white bad guy at the end destroying the city, Slimer, proton packs, etc. etc.,- everything we've seen so far is in reference to or in line with the original in terms of basic story beats and characters and world-building. So this isn't  at all equivalent to your Superman comparison. If the point of people's arguments is in actuality "We need to keep the old cast and characters or else it's wrong!" then this movie was doomed from the start (and that much more open to misogynistic attacks) because one of the members is dead and another is adamant on not doing it, probably because he had the wisdom to know that people would act like this regardless of how funny the trailers were and didn't want to take another few years off of his life dealing with shitty harassment campaigns and attacks from disgruntled fans. So you guys were down two characters from the start.

Also, I don't give enough of a shit about Superman to be "angry" at those kinds of changes in a film. I don't think I even give enough of a damn about Sonic at this point to be "Ghostbusters Fan" levels of angry at any such changes to the character. They're fictional characters, for crying out loud. Divorce yourself from them and you'll be a lot better for it.

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This is guilt by association. He never claimed to have been speaking for all people that dislike this movie, or that he is a part of the "campaign" against this film. You have grouped everyone that dislikes this film into a category, and you claim that they have all started some sort of organized campaign against this film, AND that James Rolfe is a part of this campaign. Do you have any evidence for these claims? Any basis at all for these remarks?

It's funny that you're asking for proof of things I never said. I never claimed he was speaking for all people, nor have I grouped everyone in a single category (I have specifically noted various reasons for why this film is being attacked, including that the trailers are garbage). I said he is making similar arguments and resorting to similar sentiments that the angry portions of the general fandom has resorted to (of which he is apart of) that I have already disagreed with, and I've simply been outlining why I've disagreed with them.

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So James Rolfe has harassed people? That's news to me. You said that you would not give any sympathy to affected parties (James Rolfe) than you will give to the victims of their own harassment. So you won't give sympathy to James Rolfe because of something he never did. Great logic! And the people who say that attacking James Rolfe is going too far are batshit insane. Very interesting. Oh and also, fans PAY for what creators create. It's not like they are getting this shit for free. They are paying their hard earned cash for this shit, so of course they want it to be a movie that appeals to their tastes. If you don't want to market to fans, that's fine, just don't get upset and called them entitled when they dislike the movie and refuse to watch it.

Perhaps before you go on spiels and put even more words in my mouth about what Rolfe has done and how much I need to coddle him with sympathy while simultaneously waiving away shitty fan behavior that is neither constructive criticism or casual dislike because "we pay for your stuff!!!" (further proving my argument that fans don't care about the lives and well-being of the content creators they "support" outside of how good they are at supplying them media for them to mindlessly consume), you go back and read where I said several times that I don't agree with or condone the actual harassment and personal attacks against Rolfe, while also noting that I never said Rolfe attacked anyone. However, I will not give sympathy towards him for any mere disagreements and rebuttals he receives from people for his video, because nothing he makes is beyond reproach or criticism, just like the Ghostbusters film isn't beyond reproach or criticism. Once you actually understand this, we can have a more meaningful conversation. But if you're just going to be super angry and indignant and pissed off that I'm basically just disagreeing with Rolfe, then by all means continue on being pissed, but I'm not going to continue responding. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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I kind of just feel like Rolfe is a scape goat for all the shitty things nerd fandom is capable of because he weighed in. Sure, he didn't have to, but the reaction he's getting with articles calling him a man-baby and people tweeting that his wife is a gold digger at him, I have to sympathize. On the other side I have to sympathize with the cast being attacked by internet trolls for daring to make a shitty movie. It's a shitty movie, who really cares that much in the long run? I mean if shitty installments to beloved franchises were that big of a deal would we really all still be here? In other words, idiot trolls have been ranting and raving about GB16 for months (years now?) and now the people sick of it have decided to attack the fuck out of a guy that didn't really do much of anything. Shit sucks all around.

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A new trailer is out. For the UK and... it's actually good!

No really it's alright!

 

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12 hours ago, Detective Hogfather said:

A new trailer is out. For the UK and... it's actually good!

No really it's alright!

 

Did you get possessed by demons recently? Because it looks like the same old Eddie Murphy's Haunted Mansion movie schlock to me and my reaction is basically the same as with the first trailer. Not even a darn chuckle. Also, ghost for the logo looks pretty darn stupid if you ask me and still a crappy idea, IMO. Zuul and Gozer and even the goo from the second movie still poses much of a threat than that.

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