Ghostbusters "Who ya gonna call? The Meh busters!"

[KHCast]

The actual complaint that they're women is what I don't consider a legit complaint. The core issue people have with it isn't a issue. The backlash itself, yeah that's a problem, but not what I was referring to.

If we can genderbend Thor and argue in favor of link being female, yes, I think the soul complaint that the gb 's are women now, is ridiculous. I agree that it's a problem nerd cultures need to go rabid at change, but the things they go rabid over aren't what the problem is. The nerds themselves are.

[Nepenthe]

But many people do consider the women a legitimate problem, and many of those same people are lashing out against the film as a result. That's the backlash the film-makers are directly mocking within the film. So what are you even referring to, and how does it fit into the actual point of the scene's change/addition?

[KHCast]

Why mock it instead of simply take the higher ground? As unlikely as it would happen, they could simply just deliver the movie and prove the girlbusters are just as capable. Making a success out of something people wanted to fail usually Is the better way to put salt in some babies wound. Usually when writers mock fans, it doesn't make the situation better for them(and it's usually not funny either). if it's just gonna be a jab in the same vein as s family guy Jab, I personally would rather they not kick the kettle any more than they've already done. The saying "don't feed the trolls" is very appliable here.

 

i guess that's my point that I meant. I don't see this being funny, there are probably better ways to handle that, and the immature nature of this whole thing just turns me off even more. 

Honestly if they were gonna do something like this, I think it would have been somewhat better on a social media page like Sonic.

[Hyp3hat]

Yeah, I really didn't want to dislike this movie. Hate's a strong word, I just won't watch this, and that's not great but Feig, Wiig and McCarthy have not murdered my childhood or drawn a moustache on the Mona Lisa. It's fucking Ghostbusters. I just thought a female Ghostbusters would have been super cool if done right and the trailers just didn't make me laugh once. It's very disappointing.

That said, the instant backlash this got was entirely down to misogyny from angry nerds. The fact that the trailers were poor haven't helped going into the movies release, but there's still an angry core of bitter sexists who are determined to revel in its failure, and that's a substantial part of the backlash. This problem is that there's also a backlash from real human beings who leave the house and don't go on 4chan who just didn't like what they saw in the trailers, and I worry that he's conflating the two. 

Feig's right, Nerd Culture (tm) is a blight on the human condition, but it won't change the fact that he made a shit movie. Going 'fuck the haters' is one thing, but saying that to valid criticism it's just going to look sad. 

[Graystripe2000]

You know, thinking about this whole thing and how Feig has apparently been calling criticisim of the movie mysoginists, I wonder how he'll react if the film gets bad reviews. Will he call the critics mysoginists, or will he actually take their criticism to heart?

[Jacky]

It is truly amazing how much people are still trying downplaying the sexist movement towards this movie; there are definitely legit reasons to dislike what has been shown of this movie so far, this can't be stressed enough, Feig himself has admitted to such that people, GASP can have legitimate complaints about the movie! 

Quote

What I’d like to do is talk about some of the criticisms that have been aimed at the existence of this project. I do think that the hostility towards the films has clouded what I think are legitimate questions that have been raised about this movie.

100%.

What I wanted to do, then, is to put those questions directly to you. And let’s get those answered.

Please do. And please know: I’ve never said that all the criticism is misogyny.

but don't pretend for a second the fucking sexist assholes do not exist; they do, i've seen them. A quick glance over 4chan or Reddit threads about the movie will show you well. I've seen so many hateful personal things towards this film and Paul Feig. I don't blame him for lashing back at times. He goes over this in that same interview that quote up top is from (it's a really fantastic interview highly recommend reading all of it and at least seeing where he's coming from.) 

 

The movie has been doing review screenings over the past weeks and continuing through the weekend. The first reviews will drop on Sunday morning. No concrete reactions available yet, but the early word popping up on the Twittersphere is suggesting it's apparently pretty good. I can only imagine how that's gonna go over with that specific hater crowd if good reviews start pouring in ("SONY PAYED THEM/THEY'E JUST SJWs"), but nonetheless, i think it would be great after all this shitstorm, the movie is perfectly fine and enjoyable. I'm certainly excited for this movie and rooting for it. The more clips and stuff i've seen recently have sold me more on it, to what looks like a really neat modernization and update on the ghostbustin' formula. I'm in love with all the cool new gadgets and in general how the action scenes look, really stylized and cool! I am super down for a fun action movie about fighting ghosts. I don't think it looks super hilarious or anything, although i'm getting more sold on some of the humor as well ,the cast look like they have chemistry with each other and are having a blast with this movie. Kate Mckinnon and Chris Hemsworth in particular look like standouts and i can't wait for their characters,  all the footage they've shown of those two actors have put a big smile on my face every time, they look like fun and are perfectly cast (Mckinnon being a quirky insane mad scientist, and Chris is just playing the most lovable dorky idiot ever)

As a side note, there's another cover of the classic theme on the soundtrack as well, pretty funky if you ask me, much better than the FOB one. BUSTIN' MAKES ME FEEL GOODDDD

 

[Nepenthe]

19 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Why mock it instead of simply take the higher ground? As unlikely as it would happen, they could simply just deliver the movie and prove the girlbusters are just as capable. Usually when writers mock fans, it doesn't make the situation better for them(and it's usually not funny either). if it's just gonna be a jab in the same vein as s family guy Jab, I personally would rather they not kick the kettle any more than they've already done. The saying "don't feed the trolls" is very appliable here.

Honestly if they were gonna do something like this, I think it would have been somewhat better on a social media page like Sonic.

Why? Because

A.) There's nothing debasing to one's self about mocking deliberately hateful misogynists. The team isn't actually lowering themselves to the misogynists' level. It would be impossible for them to at this point.

B.) Trolls, misogynists, and other groups who form the underbelly of society do not leave by being ignored; they leave by being identified, shamed, and kicked out (hence why we publicly ban trolls, for instance),

and C.) The scene will- in some small way- immortalize the fuckboi-ness of the whole thing and stand as a testament to how much these angry male nerds utterly failed themselves, nerd culture as a whole, and women as a class of human beings with the response to this film, because fuckboi-ness of this magnitude doesn't deserve to be swept under the rug like it isn't an issue.

[KHCast]

And yet whenever it's called out, usually it just spites nerddom even more. Look at Teen Titans Go and PPG. Whenever they reference the Internet all that happens is people get more salty. It doesn't make them less inclined to stop. It's just more shit slinging.

 

why not try and actually change their mind instead of deeming them impossible to change?

[Nepenthe]

Stopping misogyny and nerd entitlement is not the goal because it's an impossible goal. Publicizing the issue and mitigating exclusionary behavior through mockery and embarrassment is. Don't make perfect the enemy of good and let shitstains get their way by just shrugging your shoulders at their perpetual existence while criticizing the people who actually have the will and desire to want to do something.

[KHCast]

Again, not sure how proving them wrong and making something that is praised would be letting them have their way. If anything I'd think it would shut them up more because more people would end up not caring about whatever they're whine about, and more would be open to see more.

"Baw girlbusters is a horrible decision" well obviously not since many seem to enjoy it and it's making bank.

 

It's simply just a different method being used to shove it in their faces without being so blatant.

[Nepenthe]

Making something that is praised? What? The film is done at this point, and by the time anyone heard about its existence in the first place it was more than likely physically and financially unlikely to change the things people had a problem with anyway. They can't just magically conjure a better movie at this point in the game. But that still ignores the issue, which is that even if this film is the worst film on the planet, it doesn't excuse the bigoted and entitled behavior. Nothing does. If you're only gonna go to bat for cast members being harassed if the film gets good reviews, then you're not actually helping the problem.

[KHCast]

And you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say harassment is only justified when it's a bad movie? Why is not wanting to throw shit back the wrong choice and totally means I'm totally okay with the way nerds overreact?

I want just as much as anyone this to be addressed and discussed and resolved, just in a better manner personally that isn't akin to children getting in a fight on the playground. You can make aware groups like this and acknowledge them in a less immature way.

[Nepenthe]

You're looking at things in an unnecessary binary and ironically putting words in my mouth in the process. Fact is: GB team had the option to write the movie in a cultural vacuum or not, and both are equally valid artistic and ethical decisions. They decided to not write the movie in a vacuum and ultimately get the last laugh by mocking the sexists directly in the film itself, ensuring that their self-expression and pro-women stance will be immortalized for far longer in far more places than any of the individual sexists themselves can hope to attain in their lifetimes. In this context, it was actually the better call to make, because it is now impossible for this shit to fall into the annals of Internet history in lieu of the next big issue that nerds will inevitably bitch about. So GB Team wins regardless of whether or not these people go away.

But instead of patting them on the back or even just ignoring it (because if this isn't about sexism, and if you aren't sexist, and if you're not gonna see the film, then it shouldn't matter to you), you are the one now arguing about how they missed the point of the larger criticisms (irrelevant to the sexism), that they should've taken the high road (ironically implying that they were wrong), and engaging in the perfect solution fallacy by saying that the behavior will always exist so the action is also pointless (also irrelevant because elimination isn't the goal here). You've been doing a whole lot of arguing about why GB Team was wrong to add a scene to their film instead of at least being amused that they're sticking it to the jerk-offs in the ranks. Priorities.

[KHCast]

I respect the lack of fear and backlash they have. Perhaps if the scene is done with some level of class and wit, and isn't just like I said a family guy poke at the group, I'll give them props, but if it's not funny, I'm not gonna give them tons of praise for "sticking it to them" when the attack isn't even all that much of a burn so much as just referencing them.

[Nepenthe]

It doesn't have to be funny (although I'll personally get a kick out of it because I like self-aware meta humor). It just has to be in there. It's a permanent reminder of the shit that happened and a lesson to people not to be shitheads. Nothing more, nothing less.

[KHCast]

Are we even sure the joke is soulley built around the "we're girls" thing, I mean I think it'd be interesting if they did what TTG did awhile back, and bring up all the big complaints people have had, whether they were stupid or fair, and just have a laugh at that. (With the sexism part probably being the climax of the scene)

[Graystripe2000]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Again, not sure how proving them wrong and making something that is praised would be letting them have their way. 

The thing is, even IF the movie does well by the critics (judging by the trailer I saw when I saw Captain America: Civil War, I'm expecting the reviews to be mixed at best), chances are nothing will change people's minds on it. People that haven't heard of the movie can find out about it pretty quickly, but the controversy happened (if people find out about that, it could turn people off), and the marketing as a whole was terrible. I've even heard that some people that previously supported the movie have pretty much changed their minds on it. Even if it potentially gets good reviews, at this point, the damage was done.

[Hyp3hat]

6 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

The thing is, even IF the movie does well by the critics (judging by the trailer I saw when I saw Captain America: Civil War, I'm expecting the reviews to be mixed at best), chances are nothing will change people's minds on it. People that haven't heard of the movie can find out about it pretty quickly, but the controversy happened (if people find out about that, it could turn people off), and the marketing as a whole was terrible. I've even heard that some people that previously supported the movie have pretty much changed their minds on it. Even if it potentially gets good reviews, at this point, the damage was done.

Nothing will change sexist peoples minds, true. The fact that women are in their precious nerd things will always be an outrage to those people, no matter what - the Zelda thread right here is a good example of the mental gymnastics these people will go through to deny female representation in this fashion. 

That said, this is not going to affect ticket sales drastically - sure, some bean counter in Hollywood has probably noted that they'll have difficulty courting the 'Ghostbusters fandom' (lol) or core demographic from a purely money generating standpoint, but Ghostbusters had mass appeal. It's not the sole province of the nerds, it was a box office smash. Outside of the internet bubbles, people don't give a shit and are happy to see Ghostbusters again, especially if it's got those people from Bridesmaids in it, that was funny, right? Silent majority and all that. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

No matter what, they shouldn't have done a scene trying to parody the criticisms of the film thus far because it's extremely easy to fuck that up. It's easy to try and class all criticisms of the movie into one singular group, and by doing that, you end up looking like you're just trying to ignore all legitimate complaints about the film as "You just don't get it because you are *insert whatever insult here*". The only result is going to make the filmmakers look like they can't take criticism whatsoever, and end up trying to blame it on one group. For example, an all female cast, under any circumstance isn't a legitimate complaint of the film. If you saw it, and felt for example, their performance was forced, or they weren't suited for the role, then that would be a legit criticism of the movie and casting decisions in general. But just stating "Oh, this movie is gonna suck because the cast is all female" doesn't count as a legitimate one.

For example, me personally, I'm not going to see the movie because after watching the trailers, I thought the comedy was pretty lousy and cliched, and generally felt like it was just trying to be another 2000s/2010s raunchy comedy. That's a fair criticism because that counts as a marketing failure on the part of crew working on the film. If the film turns out to be good, and have better jokes than the trailers let on, then the advertisers fucked up. If the trailers are representive of the whole movie, then that's why I'm not going to like it. I don't think the jokes are funny, which is a massive problem in a comedy film.

[Wraith]

Always found it weird how people were more focused on making sure to have legitimate reasons to trash the film and making sure they don't look sexist over calling out all the people that were making things hell for everyone involved in the film with their misogynist bullshit. Like, everytime someone would point out the misogynist thing people will go "BUT I DISLIKE THE FILM BECAUSE ___". Like, alright, that's nice, but it had nothing to do with what they were talking about and shifts the conversation back to shitting on the movie, which everyone has already done a healthy amount of

[KHCast]

Honestly both sides have flaws, the nerds for being fucked up and attacking people the way they've been, and the producers just for how shady the production of this film ended up being. I mean from what I heard, people were and still are assholes to eachother on set. But definitely the biggest assholes out of this are the sexist babies that call themselves fans that now have made everyone look batshit crazy.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

9 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

 

It doesn't imply that's the sole reason for the backlash. It directly states that it's the originating factor of the backlash.

Again,  I don't settle for such simple generalizations. 

It's one originating factor, but by no means the sole only factor from the start,  which again,  I myself can attest to. 

If the movie wants to throw shade at the sexist lot that's all fine,  but if it's going to taunt everyone that had an issue with the film, then they're not much better. 

[Graystripe2000]

First-ever review. 

 

[SBR2]

I've made it clear that I'm excited for this movie and honestly think it'll be good *Awaits Unsolicited posts about how I'm wrong* but I will say it's entirely possible it'll be bad. I'd honestly rather wait and see it for myself before going "this movie IS (Not will be but Undeniably is) awful".

I've honestly laughed and more than a few jokes in the trailers and TV spots but I'll admit there's a few things that do turn me away. The Fallout Boy Cover, The overuse of Slime (A problem GB2 had and I liked that movie) and Slimer having a Girlfriend are all things I can admit are bad calls. Still I'm reserving hope because again I've laughed at all the Ads so I honestly believe it'll be fun.

[Mania Pipe]

3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I've made it clear that I'm excited for this movie and honestly think it'll be good *Awaits Unsolicited posts about how I'm wrong* but I will say it's entirely possible it'll be bad. I'd honestly rather wait and see it for myself before going "this movie IS (Not will be but Undeniably is) awful".

I'm not that excited for it tbh, but I do think it may actually turn out to be just good despite all of the really trailers I've seen (that I thought were meh to bad) and massive controversies surrounding it.