Sonic: Should Story Matter?

[Bowbowis]

As far as tone goes, I'd say to just don't worry about it. It's when Sonic games start targeting a specific tone that they start screwing things up. For example Shadow the Hedgehog specifically aimed for a dark tone and ended up throwing in nonsensically dark things for their own sake. On the flip-side Sonic Lost World aimed for a lighthearted tone and, as a result, whenever something potentially dark came up it was immediately dropped with no logical followup; Knuckles and Amy DIED in Lost World and nobody, including them, cared outside of the one cutscene it happened in. Plot and characters do not exist to serve a tone, the tone is a byproduct of the plot and characters; aiming for a certain tone is like trying to aim the shell casing as it's ejected from the gun, it's not going to do much if it hits and the bullet goes flying off aimlessly regardless. Just focus on telling a good story, one where everyone's in character, and I won't care about the tone, be it darker than Adventure 2, lighter than Colors, or somewhere in the middle.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Bowbowis

[Diogenes]

You don't write a story of a certain tone by accident. Or if you do, you're doing it wrong. Determining the tone is part of deciding what kind of story you're telling.

[shdowhunt60]

You don't write a story of a certain tone by accident. Or if you do, you're doing it wrong. Determining the tone is part of deciding what kind of story you're telling.

That's not what he said at all. He said that tone should be something that naturally extends from the characters and scenario, and not the other way around.

[Diogenes]

And I'm saying that you design your characters and scenario around the tone you're aiming for. Or at least you work it from both sides, you don't just write whatever and hope a coherent, appropriate tone bubbles up on its own.

[Diogenes]

When I was 11, Sonic was one of the cartoons I watched...

[Short-Sleeved Nook]

It all boils down to the experience the developers are trying to convey. Sometimes stories are better told through gameplay itself than through cutscenes and etc. Plot-wise, they can do whatever they want as long as it's entertaining and done well. Sonic can be dark and deep or light-hearted and funny, and either way, as long as it's done well, it works!

Yeah, story usually never bothers me much when it comes to video games. If it adds content or value to the game, it's awesome and totally welcome. If it's a chore to deal with (Sonic Runners...), only then does it ever annoy me.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Good story can complement gameplay and enhance overall enjoyment, so yeah, I'd say it matters. And while story has never been the series' strong suit, the games have often been good at creating a strong "atmosphere of adventure" with their stories, and I think that's important to Sonic. It just makes it that much more engaging. Of course, you don't need a complex plot to facilitate this, considering the classic games with their minimalist stories were quite good at this. But then again, so are more plotty games such as the Adventures and Unleashed. I guess it all depends on just not creating a plotline where the flaws distract from the overall enjoyment. For example, I'm not all that opposed to Colors' story myself (it's been a long time since I've seen any of it, but from what I remember), but I can understand how it could detract for some people.

As for tone...yeah, it's pretty clear that the Sonic fandom will never come to anything remotely resembling a consensus about what the tone of Sonic should be, which isn't surprising considering how much it's varied in the past. As for me, I can certainly see the advantages to more dark and complex stories, but overall, I guess what I'd like is something roughly approximating the classic games' tone: relatively lighthearted, but not overly jokey and silly, with some moments of genuine peril. Part of me will always have a weakness to the more "epic" side, but all things considered, a reasonably lighthearted tone seems to just work better. That being said, I don't want them to be stuck on silly/jokey mode all the time. There should definitely be some balance. But honestly, I don't think Sega should even think about making more especially "serious" games until they've released enough good games (in terms of gameplay first and foremost, though reasonably good plotlines would help too) to erase ShTH and '06 from the public's minds

Personally, something I'd like to see more in Sonic is a sense of cohesion from game to game in terms of storyline. Sonic Adventure is a good example of this - quite a few of the major plot elements were related to things that came before: explaining the ancient civilization of which Knuckles is the last member, Chaos and Tikal coming from the previously-introduced Master Emerald, Knuckles acting as the Master Emerald's guardian, the Egg Carrier following the precedent of Eggman having flying fortresses (i.e. Wing Fortress and Flying Battery), Gamma being based on the established concept of small animals being used as robots' batteries, Tails and Amy's stories roughly following up on what's been established about their characters before, etc. Other examples include Sonic the Hedgehog 3 directly following up the story of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic 3D Blast expounding on the little birds in robots that have appeared since the very first game. Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog tried to follow up on Shadow's previously established storyline...though that didn't work quite as well as we might've hoped... =P 

But lately, it seems like this sort of thing is much harder to find, and the games don't try to have any continuity. Like, can you imagine how cool it would've been if Sonic Generations had used the already-created Time Stones instead of introducing a new method of time travel? Heck, maybe this could've even been done with Sonic '06...maybe...it probably would still be a stupid story, but at least I could give them points for trying, I guess.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Monkey Destruction Switch

[The_SonicThrowaway]

Personally, I also believe that a stories in Sonic games do matter. Mainly because the Sonic series have so much potential. The Sonic Team can make some good stories. They've done it before with SA2. And honestly Sonic 06 had a nice one too... actually my favorite story..

And I unfortunately have to disagree with you when you say Sonic 06 had a terrible plot. I do agree when you say that everything after Colors kind of lost its.. story touch. Color barely had a story and it wont leave such a big mark in Sonic's history besides fun stages and that also goes for Sonic Generations. They won't be memorable. The genesis era are memorable because they're classics. The Adventure era will be memorable because of its stories and gameplay. But Unleashed onward will probably only be memorable because it introduced/had boosting. If they get remembered for anything its probably because they were fun and mindless. It left no significance.  Generations will only leave a mark because it was just a nostalgia engine. But Sonic 06 could have been played out differently... in a good way. It could have made a great mark in Sonic's history if it didnt go down as badly as it did. It could have been.. (and apparently supposed to be) Sonic Adventure 3.

06 was supposed to be a reboot of the series. Meaning most of the things that happened in the Adventure series never happened. Which is the only part I didn't like. But at least let me get on to the part why I believe 06 wasn't bad.. When it comes to the story anyway.. I don't know where to start so I guess I'll just start with Elise... Since you started with her kinda. As we already know, Elise is the princess of Soleanna and it is shown multiple times that she will do anything for her "kingdom". We learn later on in the game that Eggman is constantly kidnapping her because he was aware of the "Flames of Solaris" that was sealed inside of her that he believe would grant him some power. Eggman wasn't kidnapping her for no reason just because he could, he was kidnapping her for power. However, each time Elise was rescued from Sonic, the two grew closer together.. as friends. Elise started to grow more and more trust in Sonic and even started relying on him. There's even a scene where Elise jumped off Eggman's ship knowing Sonic would catch her. Sonic's story is just a bunch of character development that I feel they did pretty well on. It's understandable Elise can't fight on her own which is why she doesn't make a big attempt to even attack him. But knowing Sonic will always be there for her, Elise starts to try and at least escape. I didn't like Sonic's part too much, but Shadow and Silvers part was definitely better. 

 

Now on to Shadow's part. Since the game is a reboot, it can be assumed that GUN never tried to kill Shadow which is why he's working with them instead of against. Which is why in the beginning of the game he was ordered to retrieve Rouge from Eggman's base... who was on a mission to retrieve whatever Mephiles was in. After escorting Rouge to Kingdom Valley and encountering Eggman, Mephilis was released and sent Shadow and Rouge into the future where they can live in the world he and Iblis destroyed. After they meet up with Sonic Tails and Knuckles who was sent into the future by Eggman, Shadow then meets Mephiles again and presumably goes to him for answers while the rest go back. When Rouge goes back to the present, she realizes that Shadow does not have an Emerald to comes back and orders Omega to wait 200 years with the emerald she has to give to Shadow.. Which is why Omega was in standby mode. Now in the future, Mephiles (who is MY favorite villain in the Sonic-game series) tells Shadow that after Iblis was released humanity used Iblis as an excuse to attack and hunt Shadow because they feared Shadow's power. Mephilis attempts to manipulate Shadow in thinking the world would be against him anyway and tries to make Shadow join forces with Mephiles. Shadow tells him that he will choose his own fate or whatever and fights Mephiles, While they're fighting Omega gives Shadow the emerald, and uses it to fight Mephiles. After defeating him, Mephiles retreats back to the present and Shadow and Omega go back with him. After going to the present Shadow is informed by Rouge that Eggmans robots are after Shadow. Shadow tells her they that they're probably after Mephiles because they look alike. Rouge and Omega ask why they're after Mephiles and what exactly Mephiles is. and Shadow says he's going to find out why. This is where Sonic, Silver and Shadow are all in the same scene at that Rail Road place. Shadow finally gets to Eggman and asks what Mephiles is. Eggman tells him that he should do the research on his own and says its related to the Solaris Iblis Mephiles thingy 10 years ago. Not too long after Shadow breaks up the tiny fight between Silver and Sonic and lets Sonic go off and stop Eggman and save Elise for more character bonding or whatever. Shadow and Silver fight and Shadow pretty much kicks Silvers butt in. Silver who mistakens Shadow for Mephiles asks him why he is trying to stop him from saving the future. Shadow puts some pieces together  and tells Silver that Mephiles isn't trying to help him. Shadow then knocks out 2 birds with one stone by going back in time to show Silver that Sonic isn't the "Iblis Trigger" and to find out the origins of Mephiles on his own. Shadow promises the truth of what happened and what Mephiles and Iblis is and goes back in time to the Solaris Project. The two get to the past where Mephiles and Iblis escape. Shadow and Silver encounter Elise's dad who gives Shadow that thing to seal Mephiles in. Now here's an extremely interesting part, Shadow unintentionally named Mephiles. How? The Iblis and Mephiles weren't given a name. Only thing that was given a name was when the two was meant to be combined to make Solaris. Mephiles is called Mephiles because that's what Shadow called him when Shadow was chasing Mephiles around. And Mephiles kept the name and told Shadow that was his name when they met in the future. Mephiles then names Iblis "Iblis" which is where Silver gets "The Iblis Trigger". Crazy right? But anyway the two chase around the young and escaping Mephiles and Iblis. The two eventually catch them. Mephiles is sealed into that thing, and Iblis is sealed into Elise. They both then return into the future. Silver however, leaving an Emerald back with Elise so she would have something with her in replace of her father.. who died. When Shadow goes back to the present he tells Rouge what Mephiles' seal thing was made of and how to make another so they can trap him again. (I'll  be honest, that whole part couldve been played out better. But the game was rushed so it can make Sonic's 15th Anniversary.. So I can't really blame the Devs for what they did..). After getting the seal thing they go to find Mephiles where they can finally seal him. They chase him down until Omega defeats him and Mephiles tells Omega that him defeating Mephiles so many times proves that he was created to stop Shadow. (And since this a reboot I assume Omega wasn't created by Eggman but by GUN. I assume that the creators didn't want to add in a new character so they used Omega instead). Omega admits that it was him that traps Shadow in the future. He also admits that humanity thinks that when something or someone is too powerful, no matter what side they're on, they're seen as a threat. Which means Omega was created to take down Shadow at one point. Even if Shadow has been working and helping humanity.It's also implied that when that did happen and Shadow was seen as "too powerful" and Omega was ordered to take down Shadow, Shadow saw the world as his enemy or something. I don't remember that part too much. But it seemed like Shadow did NOT go down without a fight. Shadow doesn't show anything too much.. but you can tell that he is extremely heart broken of the future. Then Rouge tells Shadow that if that ever happens, she won't be against him. Then the trio finish talking and go after Mephiles. His part ends with Shadow taking off his inhibitor rings and them fighting some more..

Now on to Silvers part. His interestingly good part. Personally, I don't like Silver too much. He's kind of arrogant and kind of a brat but he does has a great heart... Like any other hero I guess. His part of the story consists of stopping Sonic because Silver was told by Mephiles that Sonic was the Iblis Trigger. Mephiles told Silver that the only way he would fix his future was to kill Sonic. And that's exactly what he tried doing. And he was almost successful the first time... Until Amy stepped in and tried to convince Silver that Sonic isn't bad and that there is no way that Sonic would ruin the future the way Silver explains it. She probably said something more powerful than that but afterwards Silver actual sits and thinks about it. He thinks whether or not its right or wrong to kill someone to save the future. Its not until his conscience Blaze tells him that it might be worth if in order to save the lives of others. And when I say conscience I didn't mean it figuratively.. I mean literally.. Blaze is Silver's conscience. Blaze is a figment of Silvers imagination. She interacts with NONE of the characters in the game besides Silver, and when she does speak to him its usually advice,help and/or a voice of reason. Silver created Blaze so he couldn't live alone his is screwed up future.. hence why she controls fire. There's nothing but fire in Silvers time. Blaze is the little Angel on his shoulder. But anyway, the "two" decide to go Eggman to see if he has any answers about anything. They go to his Winter base practically for nothing but an ambush of his robots and to find an emerald. They return to the town and encounter Mephiles there again and Silver asks if Sonic is really the Iblis trigger. Silver is only told that he only has one shot at taking out Sonic and if Silver really wants to risk ruining his future. Blaze of course.. is silent throughout this whole conversation. Mephiles tells Silver that Sonic is at the train place and that this might be his last shot. Silver of course goes and encounters Sonic and Shadow. Then they go back in time blah blah blah and I explained this part in Shadows part. Silver comes back with knew knowledge that Sonic is indeed not the Iblis trigger. Then Sonic and Silver meet up and Silver makes his apologies and I think helps Sonic recuse Elise from Eggman's exploding ship. I don't remember too much what happened, but I do remember that Sonic ends up rescuing Elise from the exploding ship by going back and saving her before it exploded, and Silver went back to the future to "seal" Iblis. The thing is, Iblis wasn't being sealed. And Blaze didn't seal Iblis. Silver's timeline was restarting because in the past Sonic, Shadow and Silver already defeated Solaris so Iblis stopped existing and Silver never needed Blaze as his conscience/second mind. This Blaze has nothing to do with the same Blaze from the Rush series since Sonic 06 is/was a experimental reboot. 

 

Then it was Mephiles who kills Sonic at the end. The same Mephiles who manipulated Silver into thinking that Sonic was the Iblis Trigger.  He managed to get Silver to stop Sonic and almost defeat him and if it weren't for Amy he would have. It was Mephiles who almost/tried to convince Shadow that the world is against him and that he should start fighting his enemies now while he has the upper hand. It was Mephiles who also got Omega to admit that he was programmed to take down Shadow in the future. And then Mephiles kills Sonic knowing Elise would cry so Iblis would be released. Mephiles has been the masermind of the whole game since the very beginning. And if it weren't for Amy there's a chance that Silver would have never been convinced later on in the game by Shadow that Mephiles was lying and Iblis would have been released later on and there wouldn't have been a way for Shadow and Silver to stop Solaris.. and that's if Silver decided to help... and thats IF they had the emeralds. If Mephiles accounted for Amy stopping Silver, then he probably would've told Silver that Amy was an accomplice of Sonic. Which means Silver would've taken out Sonic and Amy in the very beginning allowing Mephiles to get to Elise, make her cry and releasing Iblis sooner. 

 

With a story like that I would think it would be easy to say Sonic 06 would have been one of the best Sonic games if it weren't for its gameplay, voice acting, glitches etc. People wouldn't have focused on that so much and focused on the actual story itself instead of just jumping on the the "oh boo this game sucks" bang wagon. 

But then again, if you believe Sonic 06 isn't a reboot then this story doesnt make too much sense... It makes a lot more sense if it did though. But whatever. At this point Im kinda rambling a bit. 

And I know Sega has the potential to make a game like that as well.. So ultimately.. and a tl;dr I do believe a story does matter in a Sonic game. I probably left some parts out because I forgot I was typing this yesterday and tried finishing this up today but whatever.

 

 

 

[Sean]

I honestly believe that a story about Sonic just trying to get the Chaos Emeralds and saving the world from Robotnik could be engaging in itself depending on how the cogs are handled. A story's simplicity shouldn't be a problem at all if it has really good characters and interactions to uphold it, especially if there are little character stories going on that make us grow attached to everyone who is involved in the game

Sonic doesn't need to do something on the scale of the Adventure era again to have an interesting plot. It doesn't even need to be dark. It just needs to be well-made enough to make me care about what's going on, and the characters need to be well-written too. I think Unleashed succeeds at this, because the basic summary (not counting supplemental backstory like the Gaia Temples and Chip) is actually pretty barren and roughly on the same level of complexity as the pre-Adventure games, yet it pulls off so much attention to detail that you don't notice it. It does a good job at world building.

[Agie]

Difficult to tell. I like what we have...though I will say that telling the story through the gameplay would be best. I like it when a game uses cutscenese, but it makes it more immersive when the story, such as the struggles, are told via the gameplay.

[MiyaSaffron]

I do think story in a Sonic game matters. I think that as long as it's written well and by people who can really understand the major themes in Sonic and the characters. Also that it's presented in an enjoyable but memorable way.

I think part of the problem is that the Sonic games don't really have a consistent setting, which kind of makes it hard to be consistent with your stories. Sometimes we have surreal and cartoony landscapes, then we had modern fantasy-ish setting, modern sci-fi settings, a world similar to Earth, post-apocalyptic worlds...Imo, if we had a more set world, maybe the stories would be easier to tell and there wouldn't be such a huge difference between them and their tones. But most of this is just me speculating, hahah.

[GUILD]

If there's going to be a story, then definitely yes lol.

If you mean to ask "Should Sonic have stories?", then I say "It depends on the game, but most often, yes."

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I probably won't show up in this topic again after this post, but there's one thing I would like to mention regarding the tone aspect. Namely, that I don't actually think it's as simple as saying "balance" and leaving it at that. Thinking about it realistically, I doubt that most of the opposing folk will really be on the extreme end of either side of the scale, or even right in the balanced center. To use myself as an example, I generally prefer things to be on the lighter side overall, so I guess that would logically mean I would be sitting on that side of the scale overall, but at the same time, that's not to say that I don't approve of any spookiness, tense moments and whatever else being present at all.

In other words, everyone will always have different percentages about this. I don't think the majority of fans are going to be sitting on exactly one side, exactly the other side, or exactly in the middle, so as a result, I think it goes a little deeper than the three main points of the triangle. This is also why I've recently been starting to think that using something else as an example of what Sonic should "be like" doesn't always work as perfectly as the person making the comparison would like it to be.

I don't exactly trust that notion to be the case per se.

I fully agree that this goes deeper than the three main points of the triangle and people have different percentages, but in the 10+ years I've been on this forum and lurked on those outside the SSMB, a lot of the opposing folk tend to take things on the extreme parts of the scale whether lighthearted or dark and often exaggerate things on the opposite end. That's not to say that people aren't different, and that there aren't those that do not mind the stuff not of their preferences being present. But in every story in a Sonic game, most people who put their voices out pick sides at those very extremes. Not just in the fandom, but on media outlets as well if the hundreds of essays about "Where Sonic Went Wrong" have been any indicator. And as a result, people don't always trust the opposing folk who say they don't approve of one thing or the other to be true to their words. Someone may say they don't mind these elements, up until they end up getting them and then start complaining about them being around in complete defiance of their previous words.

Granted, those that are quieter about it probably don't care that much, but the same can't be said for those who make their voices heard. Not that I'm picking on you, but this is an observation I've seen go on for years which has lead to many of us simply leaving it at "balance" in the first place, as that's part of the very drama on these message boards whenever the word "Story" is even brought into discussion, and is why many of us heavily argue against anything that threatens to go against it. We've seen it every time SA2 of all games is brought up, because while it does have narrative problems, somehow this game has a stigma for being too dark for Sonic. I mean, you can't even begin to deny that, and some even go so far as to blame it for the dark plots we got in ShTH and Sonic 06. We've even seen this schism in lighthearted games such as Lost World.

And on the subject of "balance" itself, while many of us have used it as such (admittedly, including myself), if you want to be realistic, the term "balance" isn't restricted to the simple mixture of both lighthearted and dark elements in a plot to where they're 50/50. "Balance" is an ambiguous term that at its most concrete means not overdoing the elements put into the narrative to where everything suffers, to simply be "well-written" at the very least - in other words, it's okay to be more lighthearted or darker than other plots, just so long as you don't do so to an embarrassing degree. It's looking at things from a gray perspective instead of being black and white about it, and it doesn't prevent you from preferring things to be lighthearted or darker.

For instance, I prefer things with a much darker or intense edge, so I'd prefer plots along the lines of SA1 and especially 2. However, despite that preference of darker plots, I loathe ShTH for overdoing it to such juvenile levels despite it having the very tone I would like, and I dislike Sonic 06 for being incoherent and messy - these two are examples of plots being "imbalanced" alongside Heroes. What's more? I still enjoy the more lighthearted plots like Sonic Unleashed and Colors despite preferring the darker plots, and I don't mind plots being simple and barebones like S3&K or even the Advance series so long as their is enough context in their plots to understand what's going on without any problems.

I suppose that's just the consequence of a franchise with many different facets to it. But people with extreme preferences on the spectrum isn't exactly something unrealistic given that's precisely what we've seen over the years. Were that not the case, this wouldn't even be much of a discussion point to be wary about, if at all.

Edited July 18, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Sparky]

Personally, I also believe that a stories in Sonic games do matter. Mainly because the Sonic series have so much potential. The Sonic Team can make some good stories. They've done it before with SA2. And honestly Sonic 06 had a nice one too... actually my favorite story..

And I unfortunately have to disagree with you when you say Sonic 06 had a terrible plot. I do agree when you say that everything after Colors kind of lost its.. story touch. Color barely had a story and it wont leave such a big mark in Sonic's history besides fun stages and that also goes for Sonic Generations. They won't be memorable. The genesis era are memorable because they're classics. The Adventure era will be memorable because of its stories and gameplay. But Unleashed onward will probably only be memorable because it introduced/had boosting. If they get remembered for anything its probably because they were fun and mindless. It left no significance.  Generations will only leave a mark because it was just a nostalgia engine. But Sonic 06 could have been played out differently... in a good way. It could have made a great mark in Sonic's history if it didnt go down as badly as it did. It could have been.. (and apparently supposed to be) Sonic Adventure 3.

06 was supposed to be a reboot of the series. Meaning most of the things that happened in the Adventure series never happened. Which is the only part I didn't like. But at least let me get on to the part why I believe 06 wasn't bad.. When it comes to the story anyway.. I don't know where to start so I guess I'll just start with Elise... Since you started with her kinda. As we already know, Elise is the princess of Soleanna and it is shown multiple times that she will do anything for her "kingdom". We learn later on in the game that Eggman is constantly kidnapping her because he was aware of the "Flames of Solaris" that was sealed inside of her that he believe would grant him some power. Eggman wasn't kidnapping her for no reason just because he could, he was kidnapping her for power. However, each time Elise was rescued from Sonic, the two grew closer together.. as friends. Elise started to grow more and more trust in Sonic and even started relying on him. There's even a scene where Elise jumped off Eggman's ship knowing Sonic would catch her. Sonic's story is just a bunch of character development that I feel they did pretty well on. It's understandable Elise can't fight on her own which is why she doesn't make a big attempt to even attack him. But knowing Sonic will always be there for her, Elise starts to try and at least escape. I didn't like Sonic's part too much, but Shadow and Silvers part was definitely better. 

 

Now on to Shadow's part. Since the game is a reboot, it can be assumed that GUN never tried to kill Shadow which is why he's working with them instead of against. Which is why in the beginning of the game he was ordered to retrieve Rouge from Eggman's base... who was on a mission to retrieve whatever Mephiles was in. After escorting Rouge to Kingdom Valley and encountering Eggman, Mephilis was released and sent Shadow and Rouge into the future where they can live in the world he and Iblis destroyed. After they meet up with Sonic Tails and Knuckles who was sent into the future by Eggman, Shadow then meets Mephiles again and presumably goes to him for answers while the rest go back. When Rouge goes back to the present, she realizes that Shadow does not have an Emerald to comes back and orders Omega to wait 200 years with the emerald she has to give to Shadow.. Which is why Omega was in standby mode. Now in the future, Mephiles (who is MY favorite villain in the Sonic-game series) tells Shadow that after Iblis was released humanity used Iblis as an excuse to attack and hunt Shadow because they feared Shadow's power. Mephilis attempts to manipulate Shadow in thinking the world would be against him anyway and tries to make Shadow join forces with Mephiles. Shadow tells him that he will choose his own fate or whatever and fights Mephiles, While they're fighting Omega gives Shadow the emerald, and uses it to fight Mephiles. After defeating him, Mephiles retreats back to the present and Shadow and Omega go back with him. After going to the present Shadow is informed by Rouge that Eggmans robots are after Shadow. Shadow tells her they that they're probably after Mephiles because they look alike. Rouge and Omega ask why they're after Mephiles and what exactly Mephiles is. and Shadow says he's going to find out why. This is where Sonic, Silver and Shadow are all in the same scene at that Rail Road place. Shadow finally gets to Eggman and asks what Mephiles is. Eggman tells him that he should do the research on his own and says its related to the Solaris Iblis Mephiles thingy 10 years ago. Not too long after Shadow breaks up the tiny fight between Silver and Sonic and lets Sonic go off and stop Eggman and save Elise for more character bonding or whatever. Shadow and Silver fight and Shadow pretty much kicks Silvers butt in. Silver who mistakens Shadow for Mephiles asks him why he is trying to stop him from saving the future. Shadow puts some pieces together  and tells Silver that Mephiles isn't trying to help him. Shadow then knocks out 2 birds with one stone by going back in time to show Silver that Sonic isn't the "Iblis Trigger" and to find out the origins of Mephiles on his own. Shadow promises the truth of what happened and what Mephiles and Iblis is and goes back in time to the Solaris Project. The two get to the past where Mephiles and Iblis escape. Shadow and Silver encounter Elise's dad who gives Shadow that thing to seal Mephiles in. Now here's an extremely interesting part, Shadow unintentionally named Mephiles. How? The Iblis and Mephiles weren't given a name. Only thing that was given a name was when the two was meant to be combined to make Solaris. Mephiles is called Mephiles because that's what Shadow called him when Shadow was chasing Mephiles around. And Mephiles kept the name and told Shadow that was his name when they met in the future. Mephiles then names Iblis "Iblis" which is where Silver gets "The Iblis Trigger". Crazy right? But anyway the two chase around the young and escaping Mephiles and Iblis. The two eventually catch them. Mephiles is sealed into that thing, and Iblis is sealed into Elise. They both then return into the future. Silver however, leaving an Emerald back with Elise so she would have something with her in replace of her father.. who died. When Shadow goes back to the present he tells Rouge what Mephiles' seal thing was made of and how to make another so they can trap him again. (I'll  be honest, that whole part couldve been played out better. But the game was rushed so it can make Sonic's 15th Anniversary.. So I can't really blame the Devs for what they did..). After getting the seal thing they go to find Mephiles where they can finally seal him. They chase him down until Omega defeats him and Mephiles tells Omega that him defeating Mephiles so many times proves that he was created to stop Shadow. (And since this a reboot I assume Omega wasn't created by Eggman but by GUN. I assume that the creators didn't want to add in a new character so they used Omega instead). Omega admits that it was him that traps Shadow in the future. He also admits that humanity thinks that when something or someone is too powerful, no matter what side they're on, they're seen as a threat. Which means Omega was created to take down Shadow at one point. Even if Shadow has been working and helping humanity.It's also implied that when that did happen and Shadow was seen as "too powerful" and Omega was ordered to take down Shadow, Shadow saw the world as his enemy or something. I don't remember that part too much. But it seemed like Shadow did NOT go down without a fight. Shadow doesn't show anything too much.. but you can tell that he is extremely heart broken of the future. Then Rouge tells Shadow that if that ever happens, she won't be against him. Then the trio finish talking and go after Mephiles. His part ends with Shadow taking off his inhibitor rings and them fighting some more..

Now on to Silvers part. His interestingly good part. Personally, I don't like Silver too much. He's kind of arrogant and kind of a brat but he does has a great heart... Like any other hero I guess. His part of the story consists of stopping Sonic because Silver was told by Mephiles that Sonic was the Iblis Trigger. Mephiles told Silver that the only way he would fix his future was to kill Sonic. And that's exactly what he tried doing. And he was almost successful the first time... Until Amy stepped in and tried to convince Silver that Sonic isn't bad and that there is no way that Sonic would ruin the future the way Silver explains it. She probably said something more powerful than that but afterwards Silver actual sits and thinks about it. He thinks whether or not its right or wrong to kill someone to save the future. Its not until his conscience Blaze tells him that it might be worth if in order to save the lives of others. And when I say conscience I didn't mean it figuratively.. I mean literally.. Blaze is Silver's conscience. Blaze is a figment of Silvers imagination. She interacts with NONE of the characters in the game besides Silver, and when she does speak to him its usually advice,help and/or a voice of reason. Silver created Blaze so he couldn't live alone his is screwed up future.. hence why she controls fire. There's nothing but fire in Silvers time. Blaze is the little Angel on his shoulder. But anyway, the "two" decide to go Eggman to see if he has any answers about anything. They go to his Winter base practically for nothing but an ambush of his robots and to find an emerald. They return to the town and encounter Mephiles there again and Silver asks if Sonic is really the Iblis trigger. Silver is only told that he only has one shot at taking out Sonic and if Silver really wants to risk ruining his future. Blaze of course.. is silent throughout this whole conversation. Mephiles tells Silver that Sonic is at the train place and that this might be his last shot. Silver of course goes and encounters Sonic and Shadow. Then they go back in time blah blah blah and I explained this part in Shadows part. Silver comes back with knew knowledge that Sonic is indeed not the Iblis trigger. Then Sonic and Silver meet up and Silver makes his apologies and I think helps Sonic recuse Elise from Eggman's exploding ship. I don't remember too much what happened, but I do remember that Sonic ends up rescuing Elise from the exploding ship by going back and saving her before it exploded, and Silver went back to the future to "seal" Iblis. The thing is, Iblis wasn't being sealed. And Blaze didn't seal Iblis. Silver's timeline was restarting because in the past Sonic, Shadow and Silver already defeated Solaris so Iblis stopped existing and Silver never needed Blaze as his conscience/second mind. This Blaze has nothing to do with the same Blaze from the Rush series since Sonic 06 is/was a experimental reboot. 

 

Then it was Mephiles who kills Sonic at the end. The same Mephiles who manipulated Silver into thinking that Sonic was the Iblis Trigger.  He managed to get Silver to stop Sonic and almost defeat him and if it weren't for Amy he would have. It was Mephiles who almost/tried to convince Shadow that the world is against him and that he should start fighting his enemies now while he has the upper hand. It was Mephiles who also got Omega to admit that he was programmed to take down Shadow in the future. And then Mephiles kills Sonic knowing Elise would cry so Iblis would be released. Mephiles has been the masermind of the whole game since the very beginning. And if it weren't for Amy there's a chance that Silver would have never been convinced later on in the game by Shadow that Mephiles was lying and Iblis would have been released later on and there wouldn't have been a way for Shadow and Silver to stop Solaris.. and that's if Silver decided to help... and thats IF they had the emeralds. If Mephiles accounted for Amy stopping Silver, then he probably would've told Silver that Amy was an accomplice of Sonic. Which means Silver would've taken out Sonic and Amy in the very beginning allowing Mephiles to get to Elise, make her cry and releasing Iblis sooner. 

 

With a story like that I would think it would be easy to say Sonic 06 would have been one of the best Sonic games if it weren't for its gameplay, voice acting, glitches etc. People wouldn't have focused on that so much and focused on the actual story itself instead of just jumping on the the "oh boo this game sucks" bang wagon. 

But then again, if you believe Sonic 06 isn't a reboot then this story doesnt make too much sense... It makes a lot more sense if it did though. But whatever. At this point Im kinda rambling a bit. 

And I know Sega has the potential to make a game like that as well.. So ultimately.. and a tl;dr I do believe a story does matter in a Sonic game. I probably left some parts out because I forgot I was typing this yesterday and tried finishing this up today but whatever.

 

 

 

If you remember from Heroes, Omega was sealed within the same room as an unconscious amnesiac Shadow.

[Badnik Zero]

I'm not really opposed to simple, like others have said in the topic. The original games were simple in story, but they were... I don't wanna say immersive... But rather its the sense of progression I miss in Sonic story. S3&K has a certain feeling of direction in its levels, where story events (Knuckles encounters mostly) only punctuate the feeling of moving forward towards your goal. Small things in the game really set a tone of wonder, Hidden Palace was just a story showcase level for example, or the Death Egg in the background of Sky Sanctuary, these things really gave life to a really basic plot of "stop Robotnik" that was still the norm. To contrast this with Sonic Colors, a recent game with a simple story, you can ask did the cutscenes and humor round the basic plot out into something memorable or not? I would say something like the Eggman PA announcements succeed in that respect, where the regular cutscenes do not. It was okay for Sonic to be simple in the past because his world made it up with layers of color and charm, and I would say charm is lacking more often than not in titles. Wonder and charm are two essential parts of the story and setting that make classic games still stand out again story heavy titles like SA2. Wonder was laid on thick in Colors I'd say, the level themes and setting execution are so good in this game that it makes you excited to be in an interplanetary theme park saving squiggly aliens, and ultimate lifeforms be damned, you know? If Colors had less actual dialogue I don't believe the game would suffer, the environment is strong enough. Now a game like SA2 I feel, has minimal wonder in its levels, and I have to ask if that's because the levels are so geared towards adrenaline, because its predecessor SA1 executed this nicely in hub worlds. But recognizing that they were telling a different type of story in SA2, I gotta say there is nothing wrong with that either. As opposed to simple stories which need to be driven by supporting environment and interesting cast, SA2 is all about what's going on as the story gets more complex. There's nothing wrong with that, SA2 resembles a movie much more than a bare bones video game plot, and the game does it well because despite being hailed as the first type of "serious" Sonic game, there is plenty of humor in the script to balance it. SA2 as a cutscene driven game is actually quotable, which is just what a story like that needs to do. And maybe this is where I bring it back around to say that a simple story need not be cutscene driven, because the story isn't really the main attraction there, its the background and the setting. Sean said Unleashed and I agree. The world locations give the story flavor, because it's otherwise just a game about putting stones in altars to stop a monster. Like Colors, if Unleashed had less cutscenes, I don't think it'd suffer greatly. So in total I think Colors and SA2 both succeed highly at different things. Colors and the classics win in environment and charm and background story, while SA2 wins in strictly by the script terms which is what most people mean when they say story. Its a shame that Generations didn't have a better hub to create progression for the player, because all that game was missing was not this idea of a strict plotline, it was missing a cohesiveness, a chain of events kinda thing that would've brought the levels together in progression instead of literally just worlds from an abyss. There's a third type of story in Sonic, and that's the Storybook games which were more moral based type of stories I think, but I'll write about that another time.

[Wittymations]

Should it matter? Yes, every game that has a plot should have the story matter. Otherwise it's merely a collection of levels and you just roll with it. At this point, with a world of characters, several alternate media that have their own stories, and a background of (often forgotten) lore, I say story definitely matters for the console games and some handheld games.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how great or terrible the story is if the gameplay is wretched, the story is ruined. Sadly, if the story is in there while the gameplay is bad, I feel there'll be those going "See, see? Story made this game bad!" somehow.

[Diesel]

The tone in Sonic Adventure 2's story is almost exactly the same as the tone in Shadow the Hedgehog's story. Simply put, both are terrible and not what the story in a Sonic game should be like.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Diesel

[Osmium]

The tone in Sonic Adventure 2's story is almost exactly the same as the tone in Shadow the Hedgehog's story. Simply put, both are terrible and not what the story in a Sonic game should be like.

No it's not. 

SA2 definitely had darker parts in it such as the government conspiracies, and a bitersweet ending with Shadow sacrificing himself, and everyone realizing that they are in everything together sometimes. SA2 is a kinda heavy game. It did have happy parts and sad parts with the sad being some of the heaviest we had seen in a Sonic game so far.

Shadow is basically just Teenage angst: the game. Everything is purposefully as dark and gritty as possible so it would seem cool to kids. It's got a really different tone from SA2. 

The difference between SA2's story and Shadow's story is that SA2 knew how to handle the darker parts and balance them out while Shadow is nothing but dark because "dark is kewl". Go watch some SA2 cutscenes and then some Shadow cutscenes and tell me they have almost the same tone. 

Shadow is definitely laughable and it really isn't what Sonic should be like, but I don't think SA2 is terrible. I personally think it's a bit darker than I find comfortable in a Sonic game, but many feel the other way from me. SA2 really was good at handling emotions. 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Osmium

[Diesel]

No it's not. 

SA2 definitely had darker parts in it such as the government conspiracies, and a bitersweet ending with Shadow sacrificing himself, and everyone realizing that they are in everything together sometimes. SA2 is a kinda heavy game. It did have happy parts and sad parts with the sad being some of the heaviest we had seen in a Sonic game so far.

Shadow is basically just teenage angst: the game. Everything is purposefully as dark and gritty as possible so it would seem cool to kids. It's got a really different tone from SA2. 

The difference between SA2's story and Shadow's story is that SA2 knew how to handle the darker parts and balance them out while Shadow is nothing but dark because "dark is kewl".    

Shadow is definitely laughable and it really isn't what Sonic should be like, but I don't think SA2 is terrible. I personally think it's a bit darker than I find comfortable in a Sonic game, but many feel the other way from me. SA2 really was good at handling emotions. 

 

The tone is certainly the same.

Sonic Adventure 2 was darker than Shadow the Hedgehog? If that's true, then that certainly isn't a good thing. Sonic games shouldn't be dark in the first place. But no, SA2 isn't darker than Shadow the Hedgehog. Last I checked, SA2 didn't feature swearing, alien invasion, a number of cities being attacked or Eggman being implied to be murdered.

But while Shadow's game was darker, Sonic Adventure 2 was still in the same relative tone as it. No, it didn't balance the happy, sad and dark parts. It was mostly dark throughout the whole game. And none of that was acceptable for a Sonic game. Gerald Robtonik's backstory alone is too dark for a Sonic game.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

The tone is certainly the same.

Sonic Adventure 2 was darker than Shadow the Hedgehog? If that's true, then that certainly isn't a good thing. Sonic games shouldn't be dark in the first place. But no, SA2 isn't darker than Shadow the Hedgehog. Last I checked, SA2 didn't feature swearing, alien invasion, a number of cities being attacked or Eggman being implied to be murdered.

But while Shadow's game was darker, Sonic Adventure 2 was still in the same relative tone as it. No, it didn't balance the happy, sad and dark parts. It was mostly dark throughout the whole game. And none of that was acceptable for a Sonic game. Gerald Robtonik's backstory alone is too dark for a Sonic game.

He didn't say anything about Adventure 2 being darker than Shadow. In fact, he said the opposite. He said Adventure 2 did have darker themes that usual games, but it was handled much better there, and was still mixed in with the regular light hearted moments found in the series.

Shadow is unbelievably worse. It's so try hard at being dark, by having no jokes whatsoever, having Sonic being treated as what can only be described as a 5 year old who's trying to sound cool but because he isn't all ultra dark and edgy, he's just a baby. While the other characters exist to swear and act all edgy and ultra violent and dark. 

[Komodin]

You know, this is veering rather close to the whole "Sonic should not have any dark/serious/not lighthearted moments" argument...

[Diesel]

He didn't say anything about Adventure 2 being darker than Shadow. In fact, he said the opposite. He said Adventure 2 did have darker themes that usual games, but it was handled much better there, and was still mixed in with the regular light hearted moments found in the series.

Shadow is unbelievably worse. It's so try hard at being dark, by having no jokes whatsoever, having Sonic being treated as what can only be described as a 5 year old who's trying to sound cool but because he isn't all ultra dark and edgy, he's just a baby. While the other characters exist to swear and act all edgy and ultra violent and dark. 

It wasn't handled much better there. It may have been more lighthearted, but it was still terrible.

Shadow wasn't much worse other than the forced swearing. And it did still have jokes. The only characters who tried to act all "edgy and dark" in Shadow's game were Shadow, Black Arms and the GUN commander. As for the way Sonic treated, no, he was treated mostly the same as usual. The only difference is that he wasn't the main character.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Diesel

[Ryannumber1gamer]

First off. How so? How did Adventure 2 do it any worse?

Second off. You mean the stuff like aliens saying their going to kill the human race, eat them in the most painful way possible, having Shadow visibly kill other characters and tell them to their face that they are being killed, and all the cheesy terrible dialogue wasn't that bad?

As for Sonic. You mean stuff like him being in the middle of a war zone, and then saying to Shadow ''I WOULDN'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITH ONE OF THOSE'', or saying ''Looks like it's time to ROCK n ROLL'', only to get a glance from Shadow, among other things? 

Shadow's story has far far worse things than just forced swearing.

[Diesel]

First off. How so? How did Adventure 2 do it any worse?

Second off. You mean the stuff like aliens saying their going to kill the human race, eat them in the most painful way possible, having Shadow visibly kill other characters and tell them to their face that they are being killed, and all the cheesy terrible dialogue wasn't that bad?

As for Sonic. You mean stuff like him being in the middle of a war zone, and then saying to Shadow ''I WOULDN'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITH ONE OF THOSE'', or saying ''Looks like it's time to ROCK n ROLL'', only to get a glance from Shadow, among other things? 

Shadow's story has far far worse things than just forced swearing.

I never said SA2 did it worse. I said it wasn't much better, meaning that I said it was better, but only by a small margin. It was still terrible.

Characters saying they're gonna kill others, even to their face, and cheesy dialogue  are common things  in Sonic games. In Sonic Adventure 2, it was worse than usual: Eggman pointing a gun at Amy and threatening to kill her. Eggman telling the president to his face that he will blow up his country. GUN killing most of everyone who was on the ark, including a helpless girl who they're implied to have shot in cold blood. Gerald going insane. Gerald announcing his plans to kill everyone on Earth. Gerald being implied to be executed. None of this nonsense is acceptable for a Sonic game. Shadow's tone was hardly different from this.

As for Sonic's interactions with Shadow's, considering the fact Sonic and Shadow's personalities are almost polar opposites (Sonic being hyperactive and excited, while Shadow being cold and harsh), it makes perfect sense there would be awkward moments between them. And that makes for comedic effect.

 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Diesel

[shdowhunt60]

The things that made Shadow awful wasn't just because it had "dark" elements. It was awful because it had no sort of narrative focus what-so-ever. You were constantly chasing random subplots that didn't add to anything meaningful, until Shadow gets to the end of the game to spout some stupid revelation he made. That's a far cry from Sonic Adventure 2.

Sonic Adventure 2 was actually ABOUT things. Everything in Sonic Adventure 2 has a clear narrative focus. The plotting behind Gerald Robotnik's storyline might have been flimsy, and some people might find some aspects of dubious, but it fulfills a clear narrative function. Gerald's anger and desire for revenge drove him mad. Compare this to Shadow, who had to let go of his anger. That's one of the central driving themes of the story is forgiveness.

There's other things too, like Sonic Adventure 2's sense of pacing, and flow. I'm not trying to build it up as being Shakespearre here, but comparing it to Shadow is asinine. They're pretty damn far apart in terms of quality.