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Do people still think Sonic Adventure's a good game?

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Outside of the one obvious example, I don't really recall anyone saying that Sonic Adventure was absolutely terrible or on the same level as 06. At least, not anyone who was serious.

Edited by Penny

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Two people in this topic have done so at a minimum, and on top of that people have been saying SA1 was the beginning of the end and never all that good for years and has very little to contribute in a modern context, and this regardless of how much ground people have yielded in admitting that it's aged pretty badly. But the thing is, this isn't the first time this topic has gone this way, and it won't be the last. It's just the fact that Arin's trolling was even considered a proper voice in the conversation- that people would find it ridiculous that he could have possibly embellished any part of it (because obviously the game is just that bad)- that makes this the straw that broke the camel's back for in terms of why I'm just completely over the degradation of this game's reputation.

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I feel as if the original Dreamcast game has aged a bit better than the DX remake, simply because the graphics look older and actually fit into the context of the era in which the game was made. The newer character models mixed into an old game like that makes it look really awkward...especially when other character models like Eggman and the NPCs weren't even touched. I really do prefer DX's textures, tho. The old ones look like garbage in comparison. Feels like a completely different game :P

I also agree that Sonic Adventure needs a remake. It desperately needs one. And they need to change a LOT of stuff to make it presentable by today's standards.

Totally agree, but man they would have to change a TON of stuff to make it presentable by modern standards! I would love to see that happen, tho!

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So they'd more or less just be making a new game then? 

 

I don't think Adventure needs a remake.  What the Adventure series needs is a successor that, well succeeds at what the formula brought while adding it's own unique (good)things that will help it stand out. A polished, updated and fine tuned NEW Adventure title could be amazing to see as there's lots of potential to be had. And unlike a remake, a new title wouldn't get as chewed out for altering certain things, that nostalgia extremists hold as sacred. Now it doesn't need to be SA3, I'm not saying that, though a spiritual successor to those games, that takes what was liked and builds on that could be great.

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SA1 definitely needs a remake. And that's coming from a guy who'd often prefer new games out of this series.

Adventure is one of the most ambitious titles this hedgehog has ever had, and I think despite its technical issues and need to cut a little bit of the fat, it still is one of the most exciting and engaging games this franchise ever had.

It more than any other Sonic game deserves a remake, just to see it's best ideas kept and remade with modern standards, and it's worst aspects fixed and polished.

Edited by Azoo

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The first vivid memories I have of playing SA1 is playing an eBay-ordered copy of the game on an extremely old Dreamcast. And while some aspects of the game sucked (camera, Lost World in general), overall I enjoyed it. I didn't even think the worst part of the game, Big, was as bad as people said it was. Not good, but not an absolute atrocity. Hell, I even enjoyed Knuckles and Amy. So I dunno.

Now SA2, that's a completely different story.

 

And yeah, I'm all for an SA1 full-on ground-up HD remake. I've been imagining one for years.

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I'm on the fence about a remake. A fair amount of Adventure 1's concepts I'd rather see reworked into a new title, yet at the same time I do wonder how it would turn out if a lot of its bugs and more questionable design decisions were ironed out and the game was recreated in contemporary hardware.

I won't lie though, just ditching the genre roulette aspect tacked onto the characters alone would make me much more receptive to a remake of the game.

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While I'm always more down for new games versus remakes, SA1 is the one that deserves it the most. It's old enough to not hold up technically anymore while still retaining solid core ideas in its gameplay and presentation that could still be the basis of a good game. However, if they were to simply take a few notes for a new title, I'd be happy.

Just give me a new Adventure game.

#SA3

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I wouldn't mind seeing Adventure being made, if only to see the faces of people like Arin when they realize the game is there without the glitches they claim is present.

Plus, if they keep the storyline and script in place, it'll be the first video game Sonic story I will have liked since Black Knight so there's that as well. But seriously, I'd love to see Adventure remade fully for PS4/Xbone/PC. It'd be great to have a game which takes full advantage of the PS4/XBone graphics. Imagine seeing Emerald Coast in a graphical style like this: 

 

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Too much ambition. We need to keep playing it safe. Besides, gamers can't get invested in blue hedgehogs. The story and graphics get in the way of the gameplay.

Pack your bags kids, because you're about to take a trip on the Train of Perpetual Disappointment, wooooooo!

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Azoo's really nice post.

Honestly, all of these potential improvements just make me feel like Sonic Team would be better off spending the same amount of energy towards developing a new game that successfully carries out the same ambition that SA was originally trying to achieve.

Edited by Clewis

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Honestly, all of these potential improvements just make me feel like Sonic Team would be better off spending the same amount of energy towards developing a new game that successfully carries out the same ambition that SA was originally trying to achieve.

I'd take that too. Either one is fine.

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As ambitious as that sounds, I doubt Sega would ever meet expectations or, currently, do that well of a job. Especially when it comes to multiple characters. Again to me, it'd be best to just do something new and work on getting the formula down.

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You say that sarcastically, but

9Uer1Tu.jpg

 

Except I don't think the problems with Unleashed don't have much to do with those things, even as someone who doesn't think as highly of it  as most people here. You could skip the cutscenes and the graphics only got in the way because the game was poorly optimized. That doesn't mean it can't be done. 

Plenty of games these days juggle story, visuals, and gameplay just fine. Sega/Sonic Team present themselves as professional game developers, so it's not really out there to expect them to be able to handle the same thing.

Edited by Wraith

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Honestly, all of these potential improvements just make me feel like Sonic Team would be better off spending the same amount of energy towards developing a new game that successfully carries out the same ambition that SA was originally trying to achieve.

As Nepenthe noted though, the current direction of the studio is more interested in a different approach with the newer titles, rather than use the approach taken that was used by the Sonic Team of back then when they first made Sonic Adventure. Maybe Sonic Team might have done it during the days of Unleashed and the Storybook games, but with the way the series has become starting with 2010/Colors, it's rather unlikely (which I find a bit ironic as the guy who pushed for the direction of the Adventure games is currently the studio head; though in fairness, it's safe to say his ideas for the series nowadays aren't the same as they were in 1998). I think the general preference of a remake rather than a new game is that since they're recreating the original experience, they would be expected to retain the (unique) strengths of the original game; whereas with a new title they can design it as they please.

Then again, these are the same guys who let Sonic 4 exist as it does; so in their current mold, I'd expect them to completely miss the appeal and strengths of the original Adventure if they did try to revisit that game, let alone deliberately ignore said appeal and strengths outright.

Edited by Señor Gabe

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If there were a remake of Adventure, half of me says to change most of the gameplay to fit Sonic style a bit better. Knuckles' gameplay would be more about reaching checkpoints that have Emerald shards in them rather than searching for the shards, Amy would be a bit faster, but her evasive style is generally fine. I think Gamma's alright. He's a speedy shooter. Big would have the most change, I'd find it hilarious to have him fucking swinging from tree branches and cliffs like Spiderman but with a fishing pole or something. Rolling around at the speed of sound. Given his change in Sonic Heroes, he's evidently capable of it.

 

Other half of me would rather just keep true to Adventure and just have it rather refined gameplay,
 

Or what Azoo posted.

 

At any rate, I do love Adventure. As glitchy as it was, as much gameplay differences as it has and with all the problems I DO recognize, yeah. I still love it. It along with Adventure 2 are my favorite of Sonic titles. Newer games just don't interest me, at all.

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As Nepenthe noted though, the current direction of the studio is more interested in a different approach than the approach taken that was used to create Sonic Adventure.

Yeah, I'm aware Sonic Team has decided to take on a more simplistic approach when it comes to the main Sonic series, something I have no problems with whatsoever. My impression of Azoo's post was that it was more of a theoretical proposition, to which I responded in a similar sense.

A complete remake of the original Sonic Adventure is actually one of the last things I'd expect the current Sonic Team to try and accomplish. If anything I'd find it more likely that they'd decide to touch up both Colors and Generations and release them together as a "definitive bundle" or something.

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Except I don't think the problems with Unleashed don't have much to do with those things, even as someone who doesn't think as highly of it  as most people here. You could skip the cutscenes and the graphics only got in the way because the game was poorly optimized. That doesn't mean it can't be done. 

Plenty of games these days juggle story, visuals, and gameplay just fine. Sega/Sonic Team present themselves as professional game developers, so it's not really out there to expect them to be able to handle the same thing.

I'm not saying they can't, only that for all its world-building and general ambition, upon going back to it after Colors, I just did not like the way Sonic controlled in the day stages.

And while we can go, "They can handle all of these elements just fine", knowing/believing they can isn't enough for me. I want to see them do it. Again, that is. And they haven't really tried to since Unleashed.

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Any issue Unleashed had wasn't at fault of the story.

There were four main issues with Unleashed: QTEs, mandatory medal collecting to progress the game, Werehog's gameplay, and lag due to poorly optimized visuals. I'll give you the last one there and how it has to do with the graphics, but the Werehog didn't have to be a slow-paced God of War esque brawler. Who even thinks of stretchy punches or top heavy movement when they think of werewolves, anyways? Shouldn't be about agility more than anything?

But I digress. The point is that these games were never held down by having more to do with story, and by today's standards the visuals issue with lagging shouldn't even exist (it really shouldn't have back then either, tbh). The problems with Unleashed were poor design decisions, which is a recurring trait with the Sonic series.

But I digress again. This is the Adventure topic, right?

I don't think it's smart for Sega to go for a simpler route with the series and try to play off of keeping it as safe as possible, because it's frankly the opposite of what the series has always been. Sonic is no stranger to trying to make his world more robust and 'deeper' than the average Mario-esque platformer game, in both terms of gameplay and world building. This has been true since the Genesis/Mega Drive days (even if it was small back then), so why should this be the right answer to it?

Wraith is right. Sonic Team are a group of professional game developers, or at least that's what position they hold themselves as in the industry. Other companies are more than capable of managing gameplay, story and graphics simultaneously and make a good end product. Why should we consider them an exception to that expectation?

Edited by Azoo

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