Police Brutality Thread

[Kuzu]

17 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I'm pretty certain that people knows how to solve the problem.

The problem is police brutality and injustice, and the solution to solving it is check and balances and actually having those abusing their power be held responsible. It's just that someone is blocking that solution from being done. Even worse, someone else has a more deranged idea of what the problem and solution are by pushing for more of a police state, one where the powerless can't do much against.

 

11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Also, BLM and its allies do actually have solid policy proposals aimed at reducing racial bias and improving the environment for officers to work in. They're not just shouting into the wind. They are attempting to get attention for these ideas and actual political implementation. However, the other "side" doesn't want to play ball.

 

Would it actually be an ideal solution?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 minutes ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

http://bearingarms.com/ba-s/2016/07/13/new-level-crazy-black-lives-matter-protesters-bar-sick-infant-hospital/

This is quickly becoming the rallying cry of the right against BLM. A sick child happened to be in a car that was blocked by the protests, and so it's become to BLM the same way the woman with ten children is to welfare. "Oh my God, this is proof of how awful they are!"

Oh, that is beyond cheap as hell of them. That classic "Think of the Children" Fallacy seems to be a favorite of theirs, huh?

[Tani Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Would it actually be an ideal solution?

Of course it's not the ideal solution, because a lot of wider social structural problems (consider for example, the lack of good funding for a lot of black schools and discrimination against black students in public school programs; these make them less competitive on the job market and increase the risk of criminal behavior) feed into the issue of police brutality.

But it's a Hell of a good start. If we can't tear up the racial stratification that has its foundation in the 1940s and 1950s, we can certainly mitigate the damage in areas such as law and policing.

[KHCast]

Wait, bricks are being dropped on police officers now? The hell? Is that legit, or just being made up by the writer?

[Tani Coyote]

Yes, there was a violent clash in the I-94 protest in Minnesota. At least 21 officers were injured, so it became massive.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/07/12/police-officer-hit-by-concrete-at-protest-did-not-break-his-back/

The situation has since developed though, and the officer in question merely suffered a spinal compression rather than a broken vertebrae. He's since been cleared to return to work, but is taking a few days off.

The whole incident is being used to discredit the idea of protests, however, rather than being chalked up to idiots as it should be.

We see the same thing with any protest. Most people aren't doing anything but causing a civil disruption, and then a few morons use the chaos to start a fight. Cue the whole demonstration being labeled a "riot."

It's fairly simple to see how this can develop, though. There's a large group, police are surrounding it as a precaution. At least one protester decides it's time to stick it to the man and throws shit. The cops respond in self-defense. Of course, given the nature of a crowd, any self-defense will fall on the innocent protesters, who retaliate in self-defense as well (it takes a lot of determination and composure to take abuse). The situation escalates, but tada, it's either the police being heavy handed or the protesters being vicious, when it's quite possibly a misunderstanding.

Granted, the police should at least be calling on the crowd to pull away from the violent protesters before responding.

Though really, all it takes is one officer or one protester breaking decorum to cause these things to get out of hand. And much like any confrontation, it quickly becomes a game of "he started it" rather than anything actually important.

[Nepenthe]

Another guy. Not dead this time, thank goodness, but still his rights were violated.

Shaun King's Facebook Page:

Quote

This video, which was just released yesterday, breaks down the outrageously racist foolishness that Black folk must deal with from police on a daily basis.
24-year-old Patrick Mumford was sitting in his own car in February, 2016 when he was confronted by three Savannah-Chatham Metropolitan Police Department Officers, who were serving a warrant FOR ANOTHER MAN, Michael Clay.

The lead officer confronts Patrick but does not believe Patrick when he truthfully identifies himself to the officer, twice. Patrick rightfully asks the officers what is the matter and to see the arrest warrant they say they are serving.

Fearful and confused, Patrick retreats into the passenger seat of his car. Within 38 seconds of his initial introduction to the officers, the lead officer is ordering Patrick to be tased for non-compliance.

It takes a violent use of force for officers to realize what we already know: they have the wrong guy.

Rather than apologize, the officers rationalize and justify their actions to horrified neighbors and even Patrick's parents. These rationalizations include the repeated false statement that the officers asked Patrick for his ID.

Patrick is arrested for obstruction. As a non-violent drug offender serving in a first-offender probation program, a pending probation violation could cost him his job, his college education, and seven years in prison: all for sitting in his own car, minding his own business, and telling the truth.

Police Statement:

Quote

Earlier today, a local defense attorney released an edited version of a SCMPD officer’s body worn camera video.

Because the edited version is misleading, is apparently intended to be inflammatory, and to continue our transparency with the community, the SCMPD is releasing all of the body camera video of the incident.(The videos are posted below.)

On February 1, 2016 at approximately 5:30 p.m. three officers were dispatched to a residence on the 3200 block of Martha Street to locate an individual at a specific address who according to detectives in Delano, California, had been in possession of a cell phone involved in robbery in California. While in route, the officers completed a warrant check on the named individual and learned there was an active Simple Assault warrant out of Cobb County. Upon entering the driveway a person who resembled the wanted person was observed seated in a car.

As you will see on the video, the officers spoke with the individual and requested his name. The individual was uncooperative and although he presented a first name at some point, it was unclear to the officers. As you will also see in the video after the individual was asked to get out of the car, he refused to exit the car, was uncooperative, and reached down toward the floorboard of the car in a manner which the officers perceived as a threat to their safety. After warning the individual several times, one of the officers tased the suspect and arrested him.

The video released by the defense attorney was edited and omits significant portions wherein a relative asks the individual to be cooperative. The relative on the video also suggests the arrestee is similar in appearance to the wanted person, who purportedly lived at that residence. The edited video also omits other calm interactions the officers had with relatives and the arrestee.

In order to continue our transparency with the public, the SCMPD has posted the video recordings in their entirety from all three officers who were on the scene in question.

The incident and video was brought to the attention to the Chief of Police on July 12, 2016 and we have begun an administrative investigation of this incident.

Police officers nation-wide face complex duties which require them to make decisions in an instant. They must simultaneously decide how to protect the public, the involved citizens, and protect their own safety.

We are reviewing the actions and decisions which our officers made in the current case. In doing so, we must consider all the facts and not rush to unfair judgements based on highly edited videos which are apparently intended to mislead and inflame the public against the officers involved.

SCMPD is committed to fairness, transparency and accountability. We ask that everyone involved in this incident, and similar ones involving conflicts between the police and the public, be committed to these same goals, and held to these same standards.

The SCMPD will not comment further until we complete our administrative investigation.

Naturally, the cops say the footage was edited. Too bad Patrick's defense lawyer has the raw footage and it doesn't contradict the original story/shortened video.

So in short, we have officers who did not ask for ID, did not actually have a warrant for the guy, got mad and aggressive when the name didn't match, did not abide by his right to know what he was even being arrested for, went to handcuff and taze him twice, then lied about asking for ID. Granted, I'm sure someone will justify this because he's a non-violent drug offender or appeared threatening. We just can't win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[KHCast]

Cops are never gonna be held responsible or be called out by actual on duty officers at this rate are they? There's ALWAYS a excuse in favor of cops to do shit like this. No matter the race tbh, but especially with minorities. 

[Toby]

I know no one here cares, because it goes against what the majority here believe, but I just read this facebook post by a black policeman in florida, and felt it deserved to be posted here.

https://www.facebook.com/jay.stalien/posts/911372818974402

Quote

I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:

Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “Fuck the Police, I ain't no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself". This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken shit and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.

But don't worry, he's obviously wrong. Just a conditionally racist black officer.

[Dizcrybe]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

I know no one here cares, because it goes against what the majority here believe, but I just read this facebook post by a black policeman in florida, and felt it deserved to be posted here.

"but black-on-black crime thoooo"

But don't worry, he's obviously wrong. Just a conditionally racist black officer.

I thought we went over this already.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

It's nice to see a black man stand up for himself in that manor; especially in his profession.l

[Dizcrybe]

11 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

It's nice to see a black man stand up for himself in that manor; especially in his profession.l

Yeah, that specific manner, claiming that we're the real problem, but if a black man stands up for himself saying his life is worth more than something cops add to their quota, they're just being uppity and troublesome, right?

Can we stop pretending that the fact that black people kill other black people sometimes completely discounts the BLM movement now?

[Nepenthe]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

I know no one here cares, because it goes against what the majority here believe, but I just read this facebook post by a black policeman in florida, and felt it deserved to be posted here.

But don't worry, he's obviously wrong. Just a conditionally racist black officer.

You could at least pretend you're after an honest discussion instead of sarcastically drive-by shitposting in here because you don't believe police brutality is that much of a problem after finding a single black guy who aligns with your beliefs.

[PSI Wind]

News Flash: Some communities/cities/counties have better Police Forces than other. In other news, the sky is blue. You can't really use a good community to speak for them all, same for all the good cops. Just because my family served the right way doesn't mean ALL officers do.

[Nepenthe]

Police forces are trying to improve relations and procedures when it comes to minority communities. Dallas is actually one of them, overhauling lethal force parameters, transparently firing bad officers, cutting down petty enforcement and broken policing, and other reforms. What this means is that everyone- not just black people- benefit from a higher increase in safety, cooperation, and quality of life. But not every community is Dallas, especially NYPD, where- again- I just posted an article describing an officer secretly recording his superior blatantly telling him to racially profile against black people. Regardless of the crime statistics of Brooklyn, police corruption is an issue, and people would do well to stop conflating concern with that with apathy for crime, especially when it comes with the ignorant implication that black people aren't trying to do anything about inner city strife.

[KHCast]

Wait where's this link about the NYPD?

[Dizcrybe]

It's the edit in this post.

[Meta77]

Honestly I think it be best if cops just pulled out of bad sections of cities. If people really do not like them that much or feel they are out to get them that bad maybe no cops in their districts would be better? It be quite a field day on the news at least.

[Nepenthe]

No one wants police to cease existing. People want police to better serve their communities. That's going to come at the cost of police admitting there is a problem and empathizing with communities that have been burned by overpolicing and quotas. You're can't rebuild trust in a day.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A little fyi: not only is this focus on Black-on-Black crime missing the point (among other things), those of you doing it are basically comparing the actions of police officers - people we're supposed to hold to a higher standard as law enforcers - to goddamn criminals (i.e. Those we know beyond a reasonable doubt to break those said laws being enforced, and don't hold to such standards).

So yeah, I'd suggest you stop doing that, 'cuz it's not helping your case.

[Tani Coyote]

Let's also throw in that it's actually possible to completely remove patrols with zero increase on crime.

"WAIT WHAT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE"

Except it's been done before. Kansas City did an experiment in the 1970s where it increased patrols in one neighborhood, kept them constant in one, and eliminated them entirely in another (they responded to calls, though). The effects on crime? Nothing. Effects on community perception of police or public safety? Nothing. It literally made no difference if you had no cops or a lot of cops.

The experiment has not been repeated, but it does make one ponder that yes, it just may be a good idea to drastically reduce patrols. We should certainly test it again before proposing nationwide implementation, but it's telling us what we already know: sometimes the appropriate response to an issue is to run with it. Trying to control everything is a waste of resources at best and discriminatory at worst.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Really not fond of the whole,  "this coming from a BLACK cop speaks even higher volumes" mentality tactic either. 

[PSI Wind]

In case this is brought up, the recent shooting in Baton Rouge was just that: A shooting. It wasn't aimed at the police, but they got hurt or killed in the line of duty, as that's part of the risk with their job. 

[Nepenthe]

This is terrifying. Officers are saying that there may be two more people but can only identify them in generic criminal garb. They're looking for anyone out of place. So do we have any outright confirmed information on the Baton Rouge situation aside from the casualties?

[PSI Wind]

4 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

This is terrifying. Officers are saying that there may be two more people but can only identify them in generic criminal garb. They're looking for anyone out of place. So do we have any outright confirmed information on the Baton Rouge situation aside from the casualties?

Nothing at all. The Police answered a call about a shooting though. There's a small possibility it was a planned ambush but its just that: A possibility. Eye witnesses say it was indiscriminate shooting though.

[Tani Coyote]

I'm noticing a trend of BLM's detractors invoking MLK, Jr. and his accomplishments. Namely, "he wouldn't be doing things like blocking freeways!"

Are you sure?

MLK, Jr. was very fond of (non-violent) disruption. Boycotts, sit-ins, even regular protests if they get large enough, all are disruptive. This is how you get people to listen. How many people honestly pay attention to picketing unless those people threaten to take their grievances to the ballot box?

I'm getting tired of the "people being inconvenienced" argument that I'm seeing everywhere. The Civil Rights movement owes a lot of its success to telling the majority that their First World Problems mean nothing. White workers going without lunch because black folks (or sympathetic white folks) were causing problems in the whites-only restaurant. White bus drivers having trouble sleeping because the protesters aren't giving money to the company and have to worry about being laid off. White people having to walk a little bit further to the back and front of the bus because a black person refused to give up their seat in the front. What a horrible inconvenience to you!

Lost your job because you were late to work due to needing to take another route? Now you have a taste of what it's like to not be hired in the first place because you happen to be black. Your quality of life was almost compromised by not reaching a hospital as quickly? Now you know what it's like to be that black parent who has to tell their child to not go outside out of fear of criminal or police violence. Late to class and it got you dropped a grade? Now you know what it's like to not have the best educational opportunities available to you.

People think it's unfair to disrupt traffic. I say it's perfectly justified given what's at stake. Those who are complicit in a racist order deserve to be inconvenienced for it.

The only way you can construe BLM's behavior as unfair is if you are convinced the black community doesn't have external problems, which has been thoroughly disproven time and time again.

But hey, it's all a vast left-wing conspiracy cooked up by college professors and people who are TOTALLY responsible for every bad thing happening to them.

Totally.