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CrownSlayer’s Shadow

Police Brutality Thread

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Toby don't lump together all those people. Like every group, including cops, there are some bad folks in the bunch that don't reflect the general views of the movement. I'm not watching what's happening (because I'm literally getting physically sick from it all), but I know that there are some people out there still being peaceful to protest the wrongful killings this week.

Though honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. I can't believe this needs to be stated nowadays, but I don't support the killing of anyone. While I believe that there are A LOT of good cops... there hasn't been any evidence to say that there aren't quite a few bad ones as well. What really gets to me is that I KNOW nothing is going to be learned from this week going forward. Some minority is going to get their life unjustly taken away from them probably within the next couple of weeks (if that) and the cycle is just going to repeat. It honestly makes me question getting behind a wheel or even walking around my neighborhood now. I want to believe that change is coming but honestly... I just don't think it's possible with this country.

The simple truth is, A LOT of people in this damn land don't like change when it directly touches their way of life in any way. We see it in what laws are passed, who gets profiled, who gets elected into a position of power, hell, even what damn vaccines are given out. I hate that I'm getting so jaded about all this. I mean, it's gotten to the point where we can show actual people getting shot on live television and their final moments of life now. I can't remember a time when this was the case. Maybe it's just me getting older but over the last month the amount of blood I've seen on major news outlets has completely changed and sickened me. We are this use to this crap now.

I get that people often want to jump to the police's defense as their job is an extremely hard one. My heart goes out to the families hurt by tonight's events and I do believe that the majority of the force wants to make this country better for everyone. Most of these people risk their lives everyday and it's often a thankless job. But, we can't ignore all the indecent lives that have been taken by them (a fair amount of them without any sort of justice). For a federal body that's suppose to protect everyone... there are quite a few who'd rather shoot first and not even ask the question later. These people operate off this way too common mentality that if the death doesn't directly hurt them, they don't care.

Here's where I'd say that this all needs to change... but like I said before I know it's not going to. I'm praying that I'm wrong... but this is morbidly routine for the country at this point.

 

Edit: Sorry if this came off as overly negative or cynical... I don't usually engage in these sort of discussions. It's... just been a long day and wanted to get it off my chest is all. I think I just need some sleep now.

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Even if there are a lot of good cops, almost none of them ever speak up or criticize the bad ones. They're always silent and let us do the ranting and arguing. 

I saw this on fb and it really needed to be said.

http://latest.com/2016/07/they-murdered-that-man-watch-radio-host-perfectly-shred-blue-wall-of-silence-among-police/

When officers stand up and actually stand with us and are vocal about being against this police brutality instead of sitting quietly and reaping the benefits of being "a good cop" without dipping their hand in the tainted water, then we'll start getting places.

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26 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Even if there are a lot of good cops, almost none of them ever speak up or criticize the bad ones. They're always silent and let us do the ranting and arguing. 

And some cases, it's less they're being silent and more that they're being silenced.

There was a case of a good cop that actually spoke out against the bad cops. He got his career tarnished for it.

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On the Dallas shootings, I have to ponder: what is the race of the offenders? If they are black, would that possibly make gun control just a tad more important?

Or more likely, is this going to be used as an excuse to expand police power even further?

More generally on the subject of brutality: someone mentioned joining the police force. This sounds like a good idea, but I have tragic news:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/10/diversity_won_t_solve_police_misconduct_black_cops_don_t_reduce_violence.html

It appears there is no correlation between increased police diversity and police shootings. There is a positive correlation between the percentage of black residents and police shootings, however. It appears respectability politics works its way into things, as a black officer is just as likely to engage in brutality as a white one.

Perhaps this is where we find a possible solution to our problems, however. The focus is often on black victims of white police brutality, but what if there are cases of white victims of black police brutality?

I have no doubt the number will be fewer given the disproportionate brutality against blacks, but all you need is a few cases to make a PR argument. Consider this: welfare abuse wasn't an issue until a large number of black single mothers signed up for government assistance; America's racist core was unleashed shortly afterward.

In much the same way, perhaps an exaggeration of white victims would be useful to convincing the general public to rally behind curbing police power. The general public can't say "no more black cops," but must choose the colorblind option: roll back the police state.

If racism can't be destroyed, perhaps it can be utilized for our cause's benefit.

2 hours ago, nintega137 said:

I share in you sentiments. Unfortunately maybe I'd be less depressed if I knew what to do about it. Unfortunately I don't have a clue. 

Well, for starters... definitely make sure to turn out every 2 years to vote in politicians favorable to rolling back the police state. This generally means voting Democrat and opposing Republican candidates, though there will be exceptions.

2 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

However, when 5 officers were gunned down in Texas, everyone cared more. It's sad really. 

There's a tragic assumption that cops are innocent (and I have no doubt a lot of those killed in the sniping were, because vigilante justice rarely is actual justice), while victims of police shooting are guilty. We like to think of officers (and other first responders, plus soldiers) as saintly, but it's obvious that they're just as human as us when you look closely. There are a lot of good cops, and there are a lot of bad cops, because they're drawn from the general public.

49 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And some cases, it's less they're being silent and more that they're being silenced.

There was a case of a good cop that actually spoke out against the bad cops. He got his career tarnished for it.

And here I thought GTA San Andreas having both good cops in the game dying because of it was just for the sake of narrative. A good cop may not be killed, but he's certainly putting himself at risk for marginalization if he, well, actually does what he's supposed to do: serve the public, not the force.

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Whoever did this was clearly targeting cops, and I'm willing to bet they had military training. I'm thinking they're of the neo nazi militia variety. I'm assuming at least that they were white, because they were very quick to trot out an innocent black guy, but now that they have one of the shooters dead, they haven't said one thing about him.

 

@TobyDo you have a source for the people dancing in the streets? Because the only time I've seen anything like that mentioned was from the idiot racist Tomi Lahren, in a really awful string of tweets.

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You really have to wonder how a system designed to deal with criminals and "protect" the innocent ends up being just as bad, if not worse, than most of the actual criminals. 

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5 hours ago, Blue Swallow said:

@TobyDo you have a source for the people dancing in the streets? Because the only time I've seen anything like that mentioned was from the idiot racist Tomi Lahren, in a really awful string of tweets.

Only the live streams I watched while it was going on, trying keeping track of everything I possibly could. Still waiting to hear if my brother's okay.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

You really have to wonder how a system designed to deal with criminals and "protect" the innocent ends up being just as bad, if not worse, than most of the actual criminals. 

It's ultimately set up to protect the interests of the elite. One of the ways of doing this is to divide the citizens among themselves.

If we're all bickering over issues like race and gender, we don't see who the real enemies are, nor shall we unite against them.

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6 hours ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

It's ultimately set up to protect the interests of the elite. One of the ways of doing this is to divide the citizens among themselves.

If we're all bickering over issues like race and gender, we don't see who the real enemies are, nor shall we unite against them.

I'm almost certain we are aware that its the people with power that are pulling the strings, but we're truly powerless to do anything about it. The most we can do is use our numbers and scream as loudly as possible until they have no other choice to listen. 

If they still refuse not to listen, then whatever happens is going to happen

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I am liking how more than a few people are using the Dallas shooting to say that police brutality wouldn't be an issue if not for gun control.

Good Lord, these guys never give up.

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm almost certain we are aware that its the people with power that are pulling the strings, but we're truly powerless to do anything about it. The most we can do is use our numbers and scream as loudly as possible until they have no other choice to listen. 

If they still refuse not to listen, then whatever happens is going to happen

Maybe in the context of brutality, but the black community's got a good track record of throwing out other minority groups in an attempt to appease white power brokers (and partially its own principles, given the religious convictions of many black Americans). With race front and center, other sub-groups took a backseat despite their blackness.

There is no intersectional analysis by most people, majority or minority. White, black, gay, straight, male, female. Lower class, middle class. The real enemy in pretty much any system is the wealthy elites.

In the case of brutality, the justice system does an excellent job of turning whites against non-whites, and women against men. People are quick to dismiss privilege as an SJW idea despite mountains of data, with those who benefit from it feeling no real inclination to dispose of it. If large numbers of black people weren't unjustly killed or incarcerated, for example, there would be a lot more competition for whites for jobs because there would be a lot less broken black families and ruined black lives.

Even if whites are aware of racism, brutality, etc. sadly many will continue to quietly endorse it because it ultimately benefits them.

Despite the privilege white men enjoy overall, law enforcement really is an issue where they should be able to unite with blacks, because men look to be unfairly treated compared to women in the halls of justice and by the police. Unfortunately, this requires intersectional thinking.

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9 hours ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

Despite the privilege white men enjoy overall, law enforcement really is an issue where they should be able to unite with blacks, because men look to be unfairly treated compared to women in the halls of justice and by the police. Unfortunately, this requires intersectional thinking.

Um...I have to say that's a very grey area depending on what you're talking about.

Rape for instance isn't exactly that cut and dry for men and women, especially those of color. You say white and black men look to be unfairly treated compared to women in the halls of justice, but let's not forget that we had a recent case of a white man named Brock Turner getting a lenient six-month sentence after being found guilty of rape - which is noticable when that crime deserves three years at minimum in the state of California where he committed it, and doubly so when black men get harsher sentences for committing the same crime or even get punished when they didn't commit such a crime. One case had the woman get screwed over because her assault was treated less serious, the other actually got justice, but then we have the last case where the man got screwed over for something he never did.

And granted, there's this culture that domestic abuse can't affect men and so it isn't treated as seriously, but that goes to show how jacked up the system is overall. And I don't think this will be something privileged white men will unite with blacks given that they still benefit a lot more than they do in the halls of justice.

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9 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Um...I have to say that's a very grey area depending on what you're talking about.

Rape for instance isn't exactly that cut and dry for men and women, especially those of color. You say white and black men look to be unfairly treated compared to women in the halls of justice, but let's not forget that we had a recent case of a white man named Brock Turner getting a lenient six-month sentence after being found guilty of rape - which is noticable when that crime deserves three years at minimum in the state of California where he committed it, and doubly so when black men get harsher sentences for committing the same crime or even get punished when they didn't commit such a crime. One case had the woman get screwed over because her assault was treated less serious, the other actually got justice, but then we have the last case where the man got screwed over for something he never did.

And granted, there's this culture that domestic abuse can't affect men and so it isn't treated as seriously, but that goes to show how jacked up the system is overall. And I don't think this will be something privileged white men will unite with blacks given that they still benefit a lot more than they do in the halls of justice.

Sure, it's all relative.

The main idea, though, is white men are generally treated more harshly for non-sexual offenses than a white woman would be. This should be common ground with black men.

On the other hand, white men find it much easier to avoid going to court, so it makes it easy to fall into the lull of "it'll never be me up there," which hurts the ability to do so.

Recognizing one's privileges and one's oppression is always a good start in general, though. It helps remove barriers because it changes how we generally think about identity politics.

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On the subject of the nationwide protests and the tactic of blocking thoroughfares, a lot of people are saying that peaceful demonstrations shouldn't shut down commerce.

But that's just it. If commerce isn't shut down, then people without a stake in this do not feel the effects. I certainly don't pay protestors any mind when they picket outside SeaWorld or wherever. Blocking the entrance, on the other hand...

Grinding economic activity to a halt is historically proven as the most effective tactic to bring about change. The Roman public walked out of the city, forcing the patricians to make concessions to get the economy running again. The Montgomery boycott destroyed the bus companies' profit margins, prompting desegregation. And as drastic as this blocking of intersections is, it will push power brokers towards concessions if it goes on long enough; money is the name of the game.

Perhaps this answers the question we were pondering of effective, short-term methods. The standard practice of non-disruptive protests doesn't really create results, because no one is feeling the impact of it. More immediate measures such as shutting down roadways creates impact.

Yes, it will create resentment at first. But that's only if those affected don't think for a moment that maybe the protestors aren't making mountains out of molehills. The idea of the American justice system that it exists to serve all equally and fairly, and it doesn't take research to see that it fails in this regard.

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14 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I just don't agree with protesting when people are trying to get to work or when someone is trying to get to a hospital. That is the biggest problem I have when people are blocking entrances. Do it in a way that won't disrupt anything or anyone.

That defeats the point of a protest though. Would you even care about it if they didn't get in the way?

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32 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I just don't agree with protesting when people are trying to get to work or when someone is trying to get to a hospital. That is the biggest problem I have when people are blocking entrances. Do it in a way that won't disrupt anything or anyone.

Nobody will listen if they do that.

I don't care if you're inconvenienced about getting to work. There are people dying or being unjustly incarcerated. Your problems are extremely minor by comparison. Then there's the fact you have a job at all: those same people being incarcerated are going to have a fun time to finding legal means of employment that isn't a complete dead end, if they can find a job at all. They will be pushed towards crime, and the cycle will repeat.

Blocking the way to hospitals actually seems almost poetic, given these protests are about the people who have to worry about death and injury everyday, but are ignored by a majority that isn't affected. The moment is it the majority's quality of life that is endangered, though, they throw a fit.

Really though, there are alternative routes. I take them all the time when the highway is clogged with traffic. This isn't as apocalyptic as one might think.

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7 minutes ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

Nobody will listen if they do that.

I don't care if you're inconvenienced about getting to work. There are people dying or being unjustly incarcerated. Your problems are extremely minor by comparison.

Blocking the way to hospitals actually seems almost poetic, given these protests are about the people who have to worry about death and injury everyday, but are ignored by a majority that isn't affected. The moment is it the majority's quality of life that is endangered, though, they throw a fit.

I'm not asking you to care. To be honest, if someone was really that upset about them blocking the way, they could easily find a detour. I'm more concerned about getting in the way of police, fire department and that such because they constantly save people's lives. Not about everyday people (though I did use that as an example).

I think there are better in-your-face tactics out there. That's all.

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2 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I'm not asking you to care. To be honest, if someone was really that upset about them blocking the way, they could easily find a detour. I'm more concerned about getting in the way of police, fire department and that such because they constantly save people's lives. Not about everyday people (though I did use that as an example).

I think there are better in-your-face tactics out there. That's all.

When the cause of protest is people's lives regularly being in danger though, is it that disproportionate to possibly put the majority group's lives in danger?

This isn't a riot. This is causing a forceful disruption of everyday life to force whites and other privileged groups to not roll their eyes at the newspaper when there is discussion of racism and police brutality.

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7 minutes ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

When the cause of protest is people's lives regularly being in danger though, is it that disproportionate to possibly put the majority group's lives in danger?

This isn't a riot. This is causing a forceful disruption of everyday life to force whites and other privileged groups to not roll their eyes at the newspaper when there is discussion of racism and police brutality.

I cannot speak for the majority because I'm not part of them, however their lives are in danger everyday so I do get what your saying. Then again I do have to remind myself there are laws about protests and such so yeah. 

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Dude, blocking entrances to hospitals or other care centres is going way too far as far as I'm concerned. You are honestly a menace if you think blocking entrances to hospitals for people who are seriously injured or dying and need to get inside immediately is okay. 

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Ambulances are held up and diverted for all kinds of reasons: normal traffic, high profile sports games, conventions, construction, filming- anything that will either shut down a road or cause a large bunch of people to congregate in a city at one time. No one cares then. But when black people are protesting about their quality of life, suddenly a bunch of people care about Grandma getting to the hospital on time. FOH.

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Sometimes you can't pull all the way over because there's traffic everywhere and you didn't expect an ambulance to be flying by at any given moment. Sometimes tons of people are congregating in the city to have fun for Comic Con, a football game, or some other superfluous shit. Sometimes the actual fucking government tears up major roads and highways to repave them, diverting traffic even more.

Do you guys suddenly think American cities are bastions of good architecture and planning and that ambulances are always able to move freely except when those gosh-darned blacks are now deliberately holding up ambulances from saving Grandma or Little Timmy?

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