Police Brutality Thread

[Tornado]

Well, that's not necessarily true. The problem with the Zimmerman case was that the idiot DA wanted 2nd degree murder and pushed for 2nd degree murder and didn't really bother presenting a case for anything besides 2nd degree murder; despite everything about how the investigation was performed and the arrest was made and bail was set being a complete clusterfuck publicly long before the trial started. You don't automatically get manslaughter (or 3rd degree murder in jurisdictions that have it) just because you tried for a higher murder charge and whoops you didn't get it and that's a lower charge of the same crime. The judge may advise the jury to also take those charges into account if they haven't been filed, but you need to present the basis for those charges as part of your case as well.

 

 

The real problem with trying for top-tier charges ordinarily is that if you try for too high of a charge for the crime, it can color the proceedings and turn it into a media circus (as it also did with Zimmerman's case). If you have a case to reasonably prove premeditation in a first degree murder case (which, unfortunately for Twitter, requires a bit more to go on than "he knew that guy before he did something that killed him"), you file it. You can't just file it because then he would get more prison time than the other ones, and that can even be grounds for the case to be thrown out entirely (I'm not sure if it would be for murder crimes, but it definitely can be for other types of felonies).

[KHCast]

It’s sounding like to get anything higher, one of the other officers involved would likely need to attest and provide any potential extra evidence that proves intent to kill. Outside them, nothing directly “proves” murderous intent. And not sure how often cops rat on other cops like that so not feeling too good on the chances there... God our judicial system really fucking frustrates me

[Tornado]

That's basically the case so far. You need some cause to claim intent to file 2nd. You need some cause to claim premeditation to file 1st. That Chauvin seemed to have known Floyd beforehand doesn't prove either by itself; and it doesn't give them grounds to arrest them on the basis of 1st degree murder. What it does do is give them an avenue to investigate to see if there's a link between knowing the guy and his death, at which point additional charges can be filed when it actually goes to trial.

[Patticus]

Child soldiers deployed by the Atlanta PD, to discredit any protesters who go near them, and justify their own violent attacks.

[KHCast]

WHAT? How fucking scummy. Jesus you think police can’t get shittier and then they pull shit like THIS

 

Also, a KKK application was found in one of the Minnesota police officers homes. So lol 

[Teoskaven]

I know nothing on how child milita work nor how rigid or effective military training is for the united states, but... aren't they still teenagers against adults? Can't the protesters just overpowerdly take away their weapons without hitting them? Worst that happen is that the protesters get injured/killed by accidental firing or malitious intent, meaning it's the authority's fault.

[KHCast]

@Teoskaven The point is that they’re clearly using this as a strategy in hopes it effectively will make the protestors look bad somehow. Otherwise they wouldn’t use them because of the reasons you just listed. That’s almost always why children are pulled into these situations. To make the opposing side look worse. 

[Teoskaven]

That's what i meant, i do think the situation by its own nature provides a solution that can give the blame entirely onto the authority. And outlets like Fox News will turn the situation against the protesters reguardless, so expecting something different propagandawise is pointless.

That being said, expecting every single protesters to rationalize with the situation may be naive thinking on my part. Not blaming them for it though, pressure has been high for a good time and for good reasons.

[KHCast]

There’s some speculation going around that a majority of the riots in most big cities going on now, including Minnesota, are mostly white people appropriating the BLM label from black people who were for the most part peaceful. I’m not sure if there’s any confirming evidence for this, however given how often I see white groups appropriate these causes and whitesplain and act like white saviors, I can’t say Id be shocked if that were the case. Having lived in Portland, I see a lot of this shit. Doesn’t mean that inherently is a attack on the protest tactic of rioting mind you. 
 

I for sure don’t think however it’s white nationalists in mass rioting and looting to discredit the cause. Maybe a couple, and definitely some may have been responsible for some of the shootings resulting in the death of a few protestors(big maybe there until more evidence is provided), but I don’t think this was like a widespread coordinated plan by them. Kinda a 180 I’m taking here from my initial comments, but hey, that’s what education and listening to people can do 

Edit: I am definitely in agreement some weird shit is going on at the moment. There’s a lot of escalation just kinda happening out of nowhere, and if this leads to a bunch of gun fights, that’s gonna scare me a bit 

[batson]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

There’s some speculation going around that a majority of the riots in most big cities going on now, including Minnesota, are mostly white people appropriating the BLM label from black people who were for the most part peaceful.

That sounds extremely unlikely.

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

I’m not sure if there’s any confirming evidence for this

I did say this because of the lack of info supporting it. I’m just saying it wouldn’t be shocking if it turned out true to some degree given how extreme white progressives can get in these causes from my experiences. Here in Portland, a lot of white cishet people tend to often speak over us on issues pertaining to racism/homophobia/transphobia/etc.  

 

Still doubt its close to as widespread as some are trying to make it out tho until more hard evidence is presented.

 

Edit: Also, a fair number of black owned businesses have been negatively effected, and I feel like there’s a good chance some of those could be the result of white nationalists trying to blend in with the riots and other white supporters/protestors

[batson]

Honestly, this is an uprising sparked by a black man being killed by a white cop. When has any uprising caused by such an event disproportionately been commited by white people? Never, to the best of my knowledge.

[VO.SUPER]

This is definitely escalating even further beyond the original protest's meaning. I'm glad an action is being taken of some sort, but now that the guy has been arrested, what is this all about? A charging of people just sort of protesting injustice as a whole without a focus. How does something like this end? Not well I imagine.

I'm definitely glad people are taking a stand, the thing is I'm not sure they know what kind of goal they are meaning to accomplish. Maybe if we're lucky some sort of police reform will come out of this.

[KHCast]

16 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

but now that the guy has been arrested, what is this all about?

He’s been arrested, but not tried yet as far as I’m aware. For all we know he could get a charge that’s a slap on a wrist, a small sentence that gets him out of prison after a few years, etc. that and the cops that were accomplishes and defending him just got fired but aren’t really being held accountable for much. Add on top of things like that cop that was revealed to have been the one who started the rioting showing that cops are trying to undermine the movement, the protestors getting arrested and beaten and shot, trumps tweet, there’s a lot past the fact that the murderer got arrested to still be frustrated about 

[VO.SUPER]

20 minutes ago, KHCast said:

He’s been arrested, but not tried yet as far as I’m aware. For all we know he could get a charge that’s a slap on a wrist, a small sentence that gets him out of prison after a few years, etc. that and the cops that were accomplishes and defending him just got fired but aren’t really being held accountable for much. Add on top of things like that cop that was revealed to have been the one who started the rioting showing that cops are trying to undermine the movement, the protestors getting arrested and beaten and shot, trumps tweet, there’s a lot past the fact that the murderer got arrested to still be frustrated about 

It's just that, where's the end goal? Where's the focus to push at until it gives? This is just a collective frustration bursting out at various points with no clear fast appeasement. Police can promise whatever reforms they like, or Trump could give some sort of forced ass apology and declaration of fixing what was wrong. But to actually have that happen is so laughable.

I mean, I'm glad people are motivated and out there for something. I just feel like there could be more concentrated focus on reform that could push this mass of bodies to influence.

 

[KHCast]

Okay, but that’s different from the quoted piece from your post. You asked what this could possibly be about now because he’s been arrested, I'm just saying there are reasons to still protest, whether it’s peaceful or not. Whether it’s coordinated well is irrelevant to my point 

[VO.SUPER]

8 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Okay, but that’s different from the quoted piece from your post. You asked what this could possibly be about now because he’s been arrested, I'm just saying there are reasons to still protest, whether it’s peaceful or not. Whether it’s coordinated well is irrelevant to my point 

No, it isn't. That question was rhetorical I noted in the sentence immediately after that it was a collective burst of frustration. You responded to me with a variety of reasons for the protestors to still be angry. That still didn't answer anything about what it can accomplish.

That was my point, and it still is my point: What can happen from this? It could be anything, or it could just peter out after people just want to return to their lives.

I hope it's not that, I definitely do. It's just that people are gathering about and protesting with no clear endgame.

Please don't bring up the subject of what I meant or how you interpreted it. I want to focus on results here that can get done.

[KHCast]

7 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

No, it isn't. That question was rhetorical I noted in the sentence immediately after that it was a collective burst of frustration. You responded to me with a variety of reasons for the protestors to still be angry. That still didn't answer anything about what it can accomplish.

That was my point, and it still is my point: What can happen from this? It could be anything, or it could just peter out after people just want to return to their lives.

I hope it's not that, I definitely do. It's just that people are gathering about and protesting with no clear endgame.

Idk by this logic, you might as well have said this for the early-mid civil rights movement or stonewall. “I get people are tired of discrimination, but what’s the end goal?”  
 

was there a end goal for Colin kaepernick kneeling at every football game? Was there an end goal for black lives matter back in 2015-16? Was there a end goal for the women’s march a few years back? A lot of protests start out based on anger and being tired of how society has operated. A lot of peaceful protests even are often just based on frustration/anger and nothing more.  It doesn’t just automatically start out with clear end goals. If I’m being honest, I feel like someone that thinks this prob is out of touch with how marginalized groups often operate when faced with frequent discrimination 

[VO.SUPER]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Idk by this logic, you might as well have said this for the early-mid civil rights movement or stonewall. “I get people are tired of discrimination, but what’s the end goal?”  
 

was there a end goal for Colin kaepernick kneeling at every football game? Was there an end goal for black lives matter back in 2015-16? Was there a end goal for the women’s march a few years back? A lot of protests start out based on anger and being tired of how society has operated. It doesn’t just automatically start out with clear end goals 

No, this logic doesn't apply to them because the civil rights movement had actual leaders who really got things going and inspired in ways that no one else could at the time. Stonewall also brought to attention what was largely an underground movement into the limelight and got some serious progress done in showing that LGBT issues couldn't be put under the rug anymore.

What we have here is a case of police descrimination on an absolutely systematic level that goes beyond just one man and his goons murdering a human being for the color of his skin. This is something deeply rooted that needs severe pliers to upheave that I don't know if a short lived riot can do if it is short lived.

It's so deep rooted I have no idea how it's going to be toppled without stronger pressure on those lawmakers in clear points. In this age of internet complainers and small time protests, this is a wonderful usage of mass of humans and a time for the people to really get something done. Where are the leaders here to direct pressure, or the clear goals. I just want something clear to come out of all this. Not have us go back to the status quo as soon as people get bored, or are appeased by a quick sentence.

Every time you quote me you seem to think I'm saying, "This shouldn't exist." And that's not what I'm saying. If I'm interpreting you wrong, I'm sorry, but I'm just following your example.

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

No, this logic doesn't apply to them because the civil rights movement had actual leaders who really got things going and inspired in ways that no one else could at the time.

These movements also lasted longer than 3 days, and evolved. Be patient. Even the civil rights had moments where it looked like needless rioting. MLK didn’t control the entire movement for the longest time, and Malcolm X was pushing for aggressive ideas like rioting and violence. Neither of them at the start had clear ideas of where these movements were gonna go. People say otherwise or claim it’s different to now because we have hindsight and the full scope of these movements to compare to a 3 day riot. 
 

BLM back in 2016 was also a protest and riot that people claimed had no goals. A few days (weeks?) later and they ended up actually working with police and got body cams to become a thing officers needed to wear. It takes time. The aggression and scale of these riots due to the increase of people in America is naturally gonna amp up when over the years since the civil rights things have noticeably gotten more subtly shit vs better for black communities. And because of this, it will take a bit longer before things can become more organized. 

[VO.SUPER]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

These movements also lasted longer than 3 days, and evolved. Be patient. Even the civil rights had moments where it looked like needless rioting. MLK didn’t control the entire movement for the longest time, and Malcolm X was pushing for aggressive ideas like rioting and violence. Neither of them at the start had clear ideas of where these movements were gonna go. People say otherwise or claim it’s different to now because we have hindsight and the full scope of these movements to compare to a 3 day riot. 
 

BLM back in 2016 was also a protest and riot that people claimed had no goals. A few days (weeks?) later and they ended up actually working with police and got body cams to become a thing officers needed to wear. It takes time 

I know it's gonna take a long time. I'm just wondering really, what is gonna happen, that's the part that has me just sort of nerved up. Anything really could happen, it will most likely be progressive in a way, though with the current scumbag in the white house who says stupid shit about shooting protestors without a hint of hesitation, anything could go.

I definitely do not like uncertainty.

[KHCast]

I get it’s unnerving, I’m worried myself, especially when there’s seemingly a lot of governmental and legal officials, and hate groups attempting to control the narrative and turn it back on minorities through some pretty shady methods from what I’ve heard, but we just gotta deal with the cards being given. It’s definitely more complicated nowadays to make our way through this mess, and a lot of bad will probably come before good, but we’ve been down this road throughout history tons of times and it typically tends pay off in some way. And especially in a election year, the last thing Trump probably wants to do is incite a race war, so hopefully this won’t escalate that far.

[Tani Coyote]

I fully anticipate Trump will pull a Nixon and scream about "law and order" as a reason to keep him in office so he can distribute more tanks to the police or something.

As for end goals, these protests definitely have a different flavor than what I'm used to seeing. Let's compare Los Angeles '92; it seemed a lot of the rioting was targeting Korean shops, not the police. This... while we do see some businesses being ransacked, there's a lot of high profile destruction and seizure of police precincts. Guns and equipment being distributed across the protestors.

I am not sure what kind of organization these groups have. But one thing is for sure, they're definitely making an impression. A lot of times when any violence breaks out, it doesn't seem to ever target the police, the state. This time? We've got BLM flags being raised over precincts in broad daylight. We have countless reporters being arrested, but that's the thing: with social media and smartphones, everyone is a reporter. We have bus drivers refusing to drive arrestees to the jail.

I do not know what the future holds. But COVID-19 decimated America's socioeconomic fabric; we have a massive population with nothing left to lose, fresh off several weeks of anxiety about the pandemic. And as politicians in Washington debate the right of every American to have a home and full pantry, I do not expect this to get any better soon. We may be classing violence as race riots now, but I do not doubt we're going to see more and more of a class element to this as time goes on. That is when Hell really breaks loose.

A lot depends on organization. If these groups develop any sort of leadership, this could drag on. And have serious consequences in the long run regardless of what happens.

Sure, the government can call in a ton of overwhelming firepower. The PR nightmare of engaging your own population aside? We also called in a ton of overwhelming firepower in Southeast Asia. This country spared no expense in Vietnam and the surrounding areas, trying to crush a population that largely did not want us there.

It still wasn't enough.

[KHCast]

My city (Portland) is attempting to enact a 8:00 PM curfew for all citizens.
 

Lol have fun enforcing that guys, I see this backfiring immensely. Especially given how intense the riots here have gotten even compared to that one a few years back that went national 

LA is currently a hot seat right now with corrupt officers 

 

 

In Minnesota national guard and MNPD are launching paint canisters at people on while they're at their own homes 

 

 

 

Also just a heads up, all this stirred up Anonymous and they’re gonna be leaking shit soon. Jesus Christ 

What the fuck is going on 

[KHCast]

Couple more updates I missed:

-NYPD car literally ran over protestors 

 

NYPD cop pulls down a non aggressive protestors mask and pepper sprays him in the mouth 

 

 

 

A local LA news station is filming specific parts of the protest to make the protestors look bad specifically while not filming anything that makes the PD look like the villains. should be noted the News van is apparently parked with the police cars in the parking lot

 

And I won’t post them here, but there are more LA officers being exposed on Twitter with their police cams being turned off. This is a nightmare 

 

from the sound of things, it sounds like the LA protest were peaceful up until the police showed up. Then they started randomly firing tear gas bombs. This is just unreal. Literally all throughout the country this shit is happening

 

Edit: don’t know how accurate the claim is, but I’m seeing some suggesting ICE is now getting involved in the LA riots. Being in Portland, I hope they don’t travel upwards from there throughout the night...

edit 2: 

“Film the crowd, not the police sir!” Wow. 

One reporter and his gang in Minnesota don’t seem to be as jolly with the police as LA reporters