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Sega's Secret Sonic Bible that we'll probably never see "TO MARS!"

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This is certainly interesting to hear, as I was doubting that SEGA even had a bible for the Sonic series. The two worlds with a gate thing sounds very.....weird....but eh, whatever I guess. I'm not sure they will be revisiting the human world judging by the direction they seem to be taking, so I don't mind this excuse so that they can keep games like Adventure and Unleashed separate but still canon. 

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Oh my god, first a Sonic game straight out of the darkest part of the Sonic fandom, and now a bible.. I see where you're going

I gotta ask though, who (do you think) made this bible?

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Oh, if only we knew what else was in that bible.

Then lots of fan-bickering can be put at an end! But in all seriousness, now I'm very interested in the contents of the bible and how the Sonic worlds are connected. QUICK, SOMEBODY RAID SEGA!

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The whole two worlds thing is really dumb and it's the kind of thing that makes me want a proper reboot. They can't even decide what the setting is supposed to be so they just declared that there's two different settings and came up with some asspull to try and justify it in canon.

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Even though the only new thing here really is that Two Worlds thing, everything here still sounds completely asinine and needlessly convoluted. Really and truly, these guys have no idea what to do in terms of laying down the grounds for a consistent universe.

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Okay, seems like Hoggy proved us that even Iizuka doesn't know jack shit about what to make of Sonic's canon. Great.

Also, the "two worlds" thing is the worst bullshit I've ever seen, it only serves to drive the fanbase even more separated. And by Ruby you mean Aaron Weber? I mean, right now I'm BARELY (if I am at all) giving credit to Iizuka, why would I give credit to RubyEclipse?

Dammit, Sonic Team needs a new leader. One who can FIX THAT MESS.

Edited by ZDozer

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I did? How? 

 

The Super Form mumbo jumbo, especially considering that Knuckles is the damn GUARDIAN of the Master Emerald, it being limited to male hedgehogs, this is heavy bullcrap.

Also, Blaze's galore with her origins colliding with Sonic '06's events, even though you didn't mention it here. I have proof on this one on a thread I made with my old account, I'll show it on an edit of this post if I find it.

Edit: As promised. http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/18890-the-sonic-canon-as-it-was-until-recently/

I've had the work of trying to make sense of the entire frachise's timeline. Search around the Modern Era, where the Canon chaos REALLY starts.

Edited by ZDozer

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The Super Form mumbo jumbo, especially considering that Knuckles is the damn GUARDIAN of the Master Emerald, it being limited to male hedgehogs, this is heavy bullcrap.

Also, Blaze's galore with her origins colliding with Sonic '06's events, even though you didn't mention it here. I have proof on this one on a thread I made with my old account, I'll show it on an edit of this post if I find it.

I really don't think it's that big a deal.

 

Edit: In fact, it's probably for the best, it does get really silly if after a while every Tom Dick and Harry can potentially become super, at least there is some kind of limit in there now.

Edited by Hogfather

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The Super Form is something I can understand them arbitrarily limiting, because the fact remains there were no understood limitations on it beforehand meaning it was a clusterfuck of ridiculous fan demand waiting to happen. Okay, Sonic gets a Super form because he's the main hero. That's basically it. He didn't actually do anything to earn it, but whatever. Protagonist Shield. I can buy that. Knuckles had one too because that makes sense: he's the Master Emerald's guardian, and considering he can punch Sonic out of his own Super State I can see him having one.

But Tails... why the fuck do you have one? You're a sidekick/deuteragonist 8-year old boy who had the amazingly good fortune to see Sonic one day and that's it...and you have no ties to the Emeralds that we know of. No.

So yeah, if someone as plain as Tails can get one, why aren't other heroes capable of getting them? Why can't Amy have one? Or Big? Or Bark? Or-- Wait, why does Shadow suddenly have one? He literally just turned to the good side like ten minutes ago and you think that's enough clout to just bestow one on him? It took Sonic two games to get his!

You see? It's ridiculous. No limits means anyone and everyone is a Super Saiyan just waiting to be unleashed (although I still admit a final fight with ten super forms would be awesomesauce), and anyone who doesn't have one is a huge can of worms because there's no criteria to compare them to. Better just come out with some rules in place. Granted, I'm one of the few who thinks Super Sonic should've never suddenly become a canon thing and stayed regulated to DBZ homage fodder, because such a huge power-up including the most important items in Sonic's universe is something that should've been developed at the outset Namek Saga style. Sonic should've had to have gone through some trial by fire to earn that shit.

Following from that, while the "only male hedgehog" thing is stupidly arbitrary, I mean it's not like it matters. Not like we'll be playing with anyone else anytime soon anyway, amirite?

Edited by Nepenthe

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Am I the only one who doesn't think these things are not that big a deal? 

The Super Emeralds, even fans have considered this non canon for years so why not?

Super forms thing, why not limit it? Yeah characters in the past have gone super, but remember, this was back when there was only 3 playable characters and if you don't include Knuckles, only 2 re-occurring characters, one of which is Sonic? Today, we have tons, if all of them go super, it pretty much negates how special a moment it is.

The two worlds thing, yeah it's kinda silly, especially if this gate thing is a literal thing, I picture it as a wooden gate with a cow chewing on grass nearby. But is it really that big an issue? They don't particularly have to explain or show this gate in the games, it's unlikely that we'll ever see a game taking place in both a human and Sonic world. 

It's kinda similar to how Final Fantasy does worlds, yes they're all different, but there are around 3 core worlds which establish rules and the games are built on that, for instance, ever wondered why some FF games have 'crystals' in them, and some are oddly absent? 

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Super Sonic stopped being special when they befit it with that annoying jingle in Sonic 3, and kept having him as a recurring plot device, and kept having him as an unlockable. Seriously, Sonic alone has diluted the form's meaning.

The two worlds thing is annoying because it goes against everything we knew about the games beforehand with the purported reasoning being "we can't possibly reconcile one planet having colorful landscapes and human cities like any other cartoon world ever!" It's an out towards a problem that never actually existed and only serves to reinforce the dumb narrative decisions of the newer games. On top of that, it raises questions about whether or not there are two versions of each character, issues about crossing over (They say events can't cross over, so what the fuck is up with Gens' existence?) what the timeline actually is, which games fit into which world, what investment Sonic would even have in a different universe's stake if he can cross over, etc.. It's just such a stupid-ass decision.

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I decided to just clean the topic. No use in having that there as a constant reminder.

Continue discussing without the gross-ass shit.

Thank you.

Anyways, it does actually rub me the wrong way that apparently only male hedgehogs can use the chaos emeralds. And I don't think "everyone can go Super Saiyan" is really a good argument for it. Why arbitrarily limit it to just hedgehogs? What makes them so special? Saiyans can go Super Saiyan, because they're Saiyans. It's pretty straightforward and to the point why it's like that way.

Why is it that specifically male hedgehogs? Ignoring the misogynistic undertones there, what is it that makes MALE hedgehogs so special? There is no reasonable in-universe explanation for it, it's being arbitrary for the sake of being arbitrary. It blatantly sets up a scenario where male hedgehogs take precedent over every other character. It's every bit as narratively damaging as Saiyans being the center of the universe, but at least in Dragon Ball Z there's the reasoning that Saiyans are a superior race (Christ, that ALONE should be a indicator of how asinine the whole thing is). With Sonic, there is no such reasoning, male hedgehogs are the center of the reason because of bullshit.

And really, I'd argue that there was enough internal reasoning with the Super Emeralds. Tails could ONLY go Super with the Super Emeralds, BECAUSE he is young and inexperienced. What was wrong with that? Clearly using the emeralds is something that took SKILL. Tails didn't have that skill, so he needed to compensate with more powerful emeralds. What was wrong with that? I will take that any day of the week before Aryan Master Race Male Hedgehogs.

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This whole two worlds thing again? Even if we accept that there are two Angel Islands as Azoo discussed before it still leaves the question of why Adventure shows Knuckles guarding the one in the human world. That's apparently the one the ancient Echidnas lived on too, despite it being in the world without anthros, which means that they can't be Knuckles' ancestors, even though they're identified as such, because Knuckles originates in anthro-world. Chao and Flickies are also apparently indigenous to the human world too, despite being every bit as unrealistic as Sonic. Then we have Tails, Big, and Amy apparently living in the human world as well. And that's only the contradictions found in SA1! SA2 has Shadow, who's appearance makes no sense if the ARK is in a world without anthros, and Rouge, who apparently one day decided to up and leave her home dimension to join a human military organization. '06 has Silver and Blaze living in the ruined future of the human world and Zero Gravity has G.U.N. existing in the same world as Babylon Garden meaning that the anthro Babylonians are also native to the human world. This is why you don't try to fix what ain't broke.

Anyway I always assumed that use of the Chaos Emeralds was limited to characters who already possess supernatural abilities (and machines specifically designed to do so like Emerl and Metal Sonic), that pretty much narrows it down to Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Knuckles, Blaze, and villain of the week; who are the only ones we've ever seen using them. The Super Emeralds meanwhile are powerful enough that they can bestow Super Form and other powers without needing to use the character's innate power as a springboard, which is why Tails can use them but only get's super (as opposed to hyper) form out of the deal. At least that's my explanation for it.

Edited by Bowbowis

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The only 1 there that bothers me just a tiny bit is super forms is a male hedgehog thing. Like some others have said "What makes male hedgehogs so special?" ...IMO they would be better off just saying that only Sonic himself can go super with the normal chaos emeralds... and for that reason to be because he is the chosen one or whatever.

And am I one of the only few that is not bothered by the 2 world thing? I mean yes if it is true... then clearly it is a semi-new idea that they added later on... and clearly they rewrote what is and is not canon from past titles afterwards... So what's new? This series had barely much of a true canon to start with... However multiple worlds in general has been a thing in the Sonic universe ever since Sonic CD with Little-Planet. So it works good enough even if a bit... forced.

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The only 1 there that bothers me just a tiny bit is super forms is a male hedgehog thing. Like some others have said "What makes male hedgehogs so special?" ...IMO they would be better off just saying that only Sonic himself can go super with the normal chaos emeralds... and for that reason to be because he is the chosen one or whatever.

And am I one of the only few that is not bothered by the 2 world thing? I mean yes if it is true... then clearly it is a semi-new idea that they added later on... and clearly they rewrote what is and is not canon from past titles afterwards... So what's new? This series had barely much of a true canon to start with... However multiple worlds in general has been a thing in the Sonic universe ever since Sonic CD with Little-Planet. So it works good enough even if a bit... forced.

I think it's because women are naturally weaker, except for Blaze. I mean, for that graphic post I made in this thread, it would not only be the truth, but also the fact that it would steer ANYONE away from the series! You ever seen Super Pan? No, because that's non-canon.

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I think it's because women are naturally weaker, except for Blaze. I mean, for that graphic post I made in this thread, it would not only be the truth, but also the fact that it would steer ANYONE away from the series! You ever seen Super Pan? No, because that's non-canon.

What would steer anyone away? giving female characters as the same treatment as the males? Because it would not make me go ahead... In fact I would think that it's awesome... And last I knew... Amy and some of the other girls are not weak whatsoever.

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