Sega's Secret Sonic Bible that we'll probably never see "TO MARS!"

[Your Vest Friend]

Wait some fans consider the super emeralds non cannon? I have always considered them cannon.

Iizuka confirmed them as non-canon years ago, they were just a little bonus for the lock-on system. 

[Meta77]

Iizuka confirmed them as non-canon years ago, they were just a little bonus for the lock-on system. 

that really makes me sad. Ive been with sonic since the start and love super sonic but have always wanted a threat that super sonic just could not handle and have to go hyper to beat it.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Meta77

[Diogenes]

That's basically what Super Sonic is for already, dealing with the shit that's too much for regular Sonic. And if they did that, would they end up making a Mega Sonic or an Ultra Sonic years down the line to fight something Hyper Sonic couldn't handle?

[Lord-Dreamerz]

And if they did that, would they end up making a Mega Sonic or an Ultra Sonic years down the line to fight something Hyper Sonic couldn't handle?

Or better yet... super saiyan god super saiyan. xD

And no... I'm not saying they should do that. =P

 

PS: However if Shōnen anime is anything to go by... Then new super forms might excite and sell well to the kids.

[Indigo Rush]

...not gonna lie, Ultra Sonic actually sounds kinda cool. Fits the scientific naming conventions of mach speed travel. Supersonic, Hypersonic, Ultrasonic, etc.

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

Second, why all of a sudden RubyEclipse has a fucking say on Sonic canon, with that "two worlds" thing? Let me say that for the third time: Iizuka's already out of credit, why should I trust Aaron Weber, a man who has NO ACTUAL TIES with Sonic Team? He is just a damn spokersman.

That's a lot of words for what boils down to "I don't understand what Ruby has access to."

Ruby has access to these bibles or at least big chunks of it.

This has pretpretty much been varified by Gene at Retro who has seen the document and quoted that two worlds thing as being accurate. So why are you having a bash at Ruby when what he's saying is accurate?

[ZDozer]

Because I don't see him as ANY authority when it comes at Sonic. Y'know, he's just PR, like Balough before him (though he's way better than Balough, I give him that). I don't have a reason to believe the man if he's not involved with the making of the main material.

Shit, I'm having hard times buying into what Iizuka himself says, and he's Sonic Team's boss. How many more times I will have to say that so you can understand it? I don't care if Webber WORKS at SEGA, he's not a Sonic Team member, he's not involved with the games' creation. He is just a public relations manager. He can pass things ahead, but he actually has NO SINGLE SAY on Sonic's Canon.

Edited August 14, 2015 by ZDozer

[Nepenthe]

Yes, they're PR. Which means their entire job is to take information that Sonic Team has said and pass it to us. There are contracts, NDAs and all other manner of shit that restricts them on what they actually are allowed to say and when they are allowed to say it. We just learned this not too long ago with Chris Prangar. Do you honestly think that Sonic Team would let Aaron or anyone else make up stuff about the Sonic franchise that wasn't true and still allow him to keep his job?

Let me put it another way. When spokespersons put out articles about the Deadly Six's personalities during Lost World's marketing, you literally didn't believe them until you played the game yourself simply because Iizuka wasn't making the articles? Like, when they told us Zor was a downer and Zazz was crazy, you thought they were just completely bullshitting until you saw video proof? Because this is literally the logical conclusion of your argument right now.

[ZDozer]

Yes, they're PR. Which means their entire job is to take information that Sonic Team has said and pass it to us. There are contracts, NDAs and all other manner of shit that restricts them on what they actually are allowed to say and when they are allowed to say it. We just learned this not too long ago with Chris Prangar. Do you honestly think that Sonic Team would let Aaron or anyone else make up stuff about the Sonic franchise that wasn't true and still allow him to keep his job?

Let me put it another way. When spokespersons put out articles about the Deadly Six's personalities during Lost World's marketing, you literally didn't believe them until you played the game yourself simply because Iizuka wasn't making the articles? Like, when they told us Zor was a downer and Zazz was crazy, you thought they were just completely bullshitting until you saw video proof? Because this is literally the logical conclusion of your argument right now.

First: Noting that Lost World's script was Pontac's, though I've read somewhere that Iizuka had to remake the script for the japanese version.

Second: I didn't have the chance at playing Lost World yet, as I still don't have a Wii U (You would be surprised at how much a current-gen videogame costs in Brazil). I know the basics about the game, I didn't check SEGA's site (and I don't check the forums there for years now), so I didn't know about Webber (or who it was at the time) adding that info.

Third: Okay, I concede that. I'm starting to understand what you mean: he's just passing the info he's got around. And I wasn't saying that he was lying, I just was saying that I'm unable to buy that info from someone who doesn't work at Sonic Team, sees the thing at its core. I'll try to be more open-minded on that.

Edited August 14, 2015 by ZDozer

[gokaiblue16]

 And as for the gate, you know that train in SA1 that leads you to the Mystic Ruins? Maybe that's the gate that travels between Earth and Mobius/Sonic's World/Whatever-land. It does explain why Sonic even bother taking a train when he can freakin out-run it in his sleep.

That actually makes a whole lot of sense. Perhaps this might be some sort of evidence of the two worlds? What of the action stage entrances? Are they a gate of some sort as well?

[Salamander]

PS: However if Shōnen anime is anything to go by... Then new super forms might excite and sell well to the kids.

Perhaps the pseudo-Super-forms from the Storybook games are there to serve this purpose.

Shit, I'm having hard times buying into what Iizuka himself says, and he's Sonic Team's boss. How many more times I will have to say that so you can understand it? I don't care if Webber WORKS at SEGA, he's not a Sonic Team member, he's not involved with the games' creation. He is just a public relations manager. He can pass things ahead, but he actually has NO SINGLE SAY on Sonic's Canon.

It's not necessarily true that Webber has zero influence.  I believe we know that they asked him for his input on certain aspects of Sonic Generations, for instance - which makes a lot of sense, as Generations was a love letter to the fans and so you would want to speak to somebody whose job is to understand the fans.  Perhaps think of him as Sonic Team's link to the outside world (and particularly to the west).  (Edit: I may have been thinking of AAUK, the former EU community manager - but if the EU community manager was involved, I can't imagine the U.S. community manager wasn't.)

Edited August 14, 2015 by FFWF

[ZDozer]

I didn't say he has zero influence, I said he has zero connections with Sonic Team.

Now there, what do you mean he had a hand on making Sonic Generations? I'm finishing this game right now, how come HE HAD AN INPUT IN IT?

People here already know that I do not think well of Webber (due to what kind of fan he was before being the PR manager). Connection East-West, you say? I'm not buying that yet. (Though, as I said, he does his job way better than Balough.)

Edited August 14, 2015 by ZDozer

[Badnik Mechanic]

what do you mean he had a hand on making Sonic Generations? I'm finishing this game right now, how come HE HAD AN INPUT IN IT?

Because you don't know what the community manager role involves? 

And to elaborate on that, whilst I don't know what Ruby's involvement was exactly, the EU manager, AAUK had input on Sonic Generations, those wanted posters which have Mighty and Ray on it, that was his doing.

People here already know that I do not think well of Webber (due to what kind of fan he was before being the PR manager).

This is beyond petty.

Ruby has proved himself more than a competent, smart and downright excellent community manager. The fact you're actually slagging off his efforts due to actions he probably took years ago just reeks of desperation to... well... frankly I've no idea... but something is definitely up when you're not impressed with someone's efforts in being a community manager and the justification is stuff they did when they were not even in that role.

[ZDozer]

Okay, and then you expect me to change my thought of him because he's so "awesome" or something like that.

I'm not saying it's not gonna happen. I'm saying it is hard to happen.

I don't know how things really work with you guys, but keep in mind that I didn't grew up in the same neighborhood as you. At this moment I'm trying not to get a warning for bad behavior (Not easy when my personality is based around brutal honesty).

Edited August 14, 2015 by ZDozer

[Badnik Mechanic]

Okay, and then you expect me to change my thought of him because he's so "awesome" or something like that.

No I expect you to at least show some kind of professional respect since he's more than demonstrated he's competant at his job and does a lot for Sega and the community. 

What you are doing is petty and you're judging him and his actions now based on something which I for one have no clue about so... how many years does this go back? 

Ruby has been in the community team for years, even when you factor out the break he took before coming back to run the social sites. 

You don't want to like him, fine, but if you're seriously basing that decision off something he did years ago before he became community manager, you honestly expect nobody to call you out on how petty that is?

 

Right now you sound like this.

"I don't like Aaron Webber because 7 years ago he said Sonic should have Green eyes!" 

[ZDozer]

Sorry, but I don't get to that level of haterism (about the green eyes).

As blunt as I may be, at least I admit you're right on the case with Webber; I'm actually resisting the concept of getting to like him, still. I would explain this in further detail, but I don't think this thread is the place for this.

(Then again, we started discussing about Sonic Team's misdirection with the Sonic canon, I'm actually wondering how did we get to a discussion where the topic is why I don't like Webber.

Also, Hog, seriously. Why all the issue about me not liking him? I can get the issue about making fun of Iizuka, about cussing Webber (I admittedly didn't know how you guys run things around here at the time), and that one that got me a warning in my old account, but why the god damn fuss about me not liking Webber? Blind hate or not, at least I'm not like some guys down in my country.)

Edited August 14, 2015 by ZDozer

[shdowhunt60]

That's basically what Super Sonic is for already, dealing with the shit that's too much for regular Sonic. And if they did that, would they end up making a Mega Sonic or an Ultra Sonic years down the line to fight something Hyper Sonic couldn't handle?

That's definitely an issue with the Super Saiyan setup that I have. It got real repetitive quick when everyone could go Super Saiyan at any point in time, and the solution to every problem became MOAR SUPER SAIYAN.

The other thing was that because the emphasis was placed on Saiyans, Saiyan characters completely overshadowed non-Saiyans and forced them into non-relevancy. That's the trapping that Sonic fell into by the time Sonic 06 came out. The only characters with any actual relevance were Sonic, Shadow, and Silver.

This is ultimately why I dislike the idea that only male hedgehogs have access to using the Chaos Emeralds. The other being that it makes no fucking sense.

 

[Sean]

Yeah if RubyEclipse was making shit up he'd be pretty fired right about now. The fact that he still has his job is proof that this is what Sega actually believes lmfao

[They lie]

Well, this explains why Sonic games tend to suck. Of all the discussion here, not a single thing in the bible seems to reference gameplay at all.

Meanwhile at a good developer/publisher, they are very strict in how things are done most notably in Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon, Luigi was NOT allowed to jump. Seriously, it was in a kotaku interview.

http://kotaku.com/5990793/creating-a-video-game-with-nintendo-sounds-stressful-amazing-and-unreal

[Diogenes]

Well, this explains why Sonic games tend to suck. Of all the discussion here, not a single thing in the bible seems to reference gameplay at all.

You realize we only know a couple things out of it, right? That the few things we know about happen to be story-related doesn't mean they have no guidelines for gameplay.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Well, this explains why Sonic games tend to suck. Of all the discussion here, not a single thing in the bible seems to reference gameplay at all.

Is this a joke post? 

It quite clearly says in the OP what this document is for and that the notes are only from confirmed stuff which has been said publicly.

[They lie]

Has anything been leaked as far as GAMEPLAY is concerned? Nope. Unless you'd like to confirm from your "sources" that the bible in question does contain at least the basic fundamentals of how gameplay should be handled in a sonic game, I am under the assumption that there isn't any.

The opening post does not mention gameplay at all and neither to any of the other replies on this thread. Feel free to site them.

Edit: Multipost failed.

Edited August 15, 2015 by They lie

[Badnik Mechanic]

I don't know the difference between a Video-game Design Document and a rule book for lore/character design.

 Right... Ok... This is why this post is silly. 

What you have just registered here to say is that is that 'Sonic sux lols because this book has nothing on gameplay.'

First of all, since you ignored the last two posts.

 

1: The only bits which have been posted are aspects which have been CONFIRMED by official sources. So no, there isn't anything on gameplay because nothing has been confirmed from it. Even in the post on Retro and the subsequent posts made by me in this topic, I'm not going to divulge info which hasn't been confirmed by official sources because it's not my place to do so.

2: Why would there be gameplay stuff in this document when this document is about how Sonic and his world should look and rules as to what characters can do and how that world should appear/operate, it has NOTHING to do with game engine rules or technical details as to how games should play? 

 

This document is about the design for the characters and the world in which Sonic lives in. It is NOT about gameplay.

What you are complaining about is a videogame Design Document, these are things which are made before a game is created and focus on gameplay and various other parts of how the game will work and play.

That is NOT what this is.

This 'bible' document outlines various rules for how Sonic and friends should look (clearly explained in the OP), it outlines how a game should also 'look' (either a human like world or a Sonic like world), That is stuff which has been confirmed. 

A design document takes these rules and creates a game on it. <---- This is what you are complaining about. 

[Nepenthe]

Has anything been leaked as far as GAMEPLAY is concerned? Nope. Unless you'd like to confirm from your "sources" that the bible in question does contain at least the basic fundamentals of how gameplay should be handled in a sonic game, I am under the assumption that there isn't any.

The opening post does not mention gameplay at all and neither to any of the other replies on this thread. Feel free to site them.

Edit: Multipost failed.

The only correct assumption to make would be that we don't know everything that's in the document so gameplay could or could not be in there, not that gameplay in the document verifiably doesn't exist. Subsequently, it's ludicrous to point out this lack of knowledge as proof that Sonic Team has absolutely nothing written down concerning gameplay conventions either in there or elsewhere, and subsequently that it's directly symptomatic of the actual gameplay problems.

[Indigo Rush]

Luigi was NOT allowed to jump. Seriously, it was in a kotaku interview.

 

Because it is the sequel to Luigi's Mansion, a game where Luigi also did not jump. I'm sure you've at least heard of the original Luigi's Mansion.

Why is that of all things such a stinger for you?