Sega's Secret Sonic Bible that we'll probably never see "TO MARS!"

[shdowhunt60]

... Fuck man. 

Because it's about a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER. His presentation in-game is just as important as how you portray a pro-wrestler when he's fighting in the ring. He needs guidelines on what he can and cannot do less he upset audience/gamer presentation...which Sonic games tend to do.

He's also a comic book character. And an anime character. And a slapstick comedy character. And a sitcom character. And apparently, he's gonna be a movie character. What's your point?

[ZDozer]

 

I can see this working

Nepenthe had already shown us what goes wrong in the mix: what we saw in most of the Adventure Era. Unless Angel Island can space-travel, and both planets communicate between each other. Also, the humans on Adventure 2 seem quite used to seeing Mobians around.

[Indigo Rush]

What about the other five or six planets chained together? The only one he actually made himself was Sweet Mountain, did he not? If that's the case (unless this is a post Lost World development), why have we not seen this before, especially in the one game where it would make the most sense?

Out of curiosity, I looked up the Colors map screen

You have the Tropical Resort, which Eggman made, the Starlight Carnival, which Eggman made, The Sweet Mountain, which Eggman probably made, the Asteroid Coaster, which is a desolate toxic series of, well, asteroids, and the Aquarium Park, which also looks artificial. The only natural looking planets are the Sweet Mountain, Planet Wisp and Earth.

 

...except it might not even be Earth, but "Mobius." If we're to take that design document seriously, outside of Eggman, we haven't seen a human on there. Just Sonic and Tails.

Also, the size ratio from "Sonic's World" (as quoted by Eggman in that very game), and the other planets is pretty wide. Planet Wisp and the like are "tiny," according to Tails. I'm pretty sure, assuming that the planet is not "Mobius," but Earth, that attaching "not-Earth" would involve chugging along a planet that's far bigger than any of the other planets. 

 

 

Gosh this is hurting my head.

Nepenthe had already shown us what goes wrong in the mix: what we saw in most of the Adventure Era. Unless Angel Island can space-travel, and both planets communicate between each other. Also, the humans on Adventure 2 seem quite used to seeing Mobians around.

I'm not saying that Sonic was born on "Not-Earth," I'm suggesting that Sonic and his animal co. are descendants of the "Babylonians" who were the aliens from "Not-Earth," and through some unseen exposition (which I think is really criminal and a hallmark of Sega's lack of foresight) they soon gained the ability to go there freely. My current hashed out headcanon is that "Not-Earth" is actually Blaze's world, hence the connections to Babylon.

So there's no hangups for any human seeing a Mobian, because Mobians have been on Earth as far back as several thousand years (hence Angel Island and the Echidna tribe), their arrival was several thousand years prior to that, is my proposition.

 

 

The reality is, though, that Sonic Team changed their minds recently and decided to have two separate planets and not explain anything to us as to how that works. They either scrapped previous series canon, or made a massive retcon without informing us.

[NoirSuede]

Sooo because of this clusterf*uck does this mean that Sega is a dusty old man that has proven itself to be incapable of developing anything remotely quarter-decent ?

 

 

[Diogenes]

What about the other five or six planets chained together? The only one he actually made himself was Sweet Mountain, did he not? If that's the case (unless this is a post Lost World development), why have we not seen this before, especially in the one game where it would make the most sense?

Sweet Mountain is actually the only other level that I'd think might be an actual planet. Tropical Resort is obviously just another Eggman space station. Starlight Carnival is just a fleet of ships, there's not even a planetoid involved. Aquarium Park is some kind of geodesic space station. Asteroid Coaster is...well, a bunch of asteroids, presumably. There's not really any way to tell if Sweet Mountain was originally an actual planet or if Eggman just cooked up a planetoid sized cake, but I wouldn't doubt the latter too much.

Also if Mobius is supposed to be a Mars equivalent, it would presumably be way bigger than any of Colors' levels, since Mars is nearly Earth-sized.

[Diogenes]

Your last post made it sound like you had that flip-flopped. 

Are we doing that thing where we actually agree but are just misreading each other again? Earth = Earth, Mobius = Mars if it still had life on it, (but also may be in another dimension?)

I'm...not sure?

To clarify I've made a very professional diagram of how I've interpreted it.

[Nepenthe]

 

Out of curiosity, I looked up the Colors map screen

You have the Tropical Resort, which Eggman made, the Starlight Carnival, which Eggman made, The Sweet Mountain, which Eggman probably made, the Asteroid Coaster, which is a desolate toxic series of, well, asteroids, and the Aquarium Park, which also looks artificial. The only natural looking planets are the Sweet Mountain, Planet Wisp and Earth.

 

...except it might not even be Earth, but "Mobius." If we're to take that design document seriously, outside of Eggman, we haven't seen a human on there. Just Sonic and Tails.

Also, the size ratio from "Sonic's World" (as quoted by Eggman in that very game), and the other planets is pretty wide. Planet Wisp and the like are "tiny," according to Tails. I'm pretty sure, assuming that the planet is not "Mobius," but Earth, that attaching "not-Earth" would involve chugging along a planet that's far bigger than any of the other planets. 

 

 

Gosh this is hurting my head.

You can't rule out the possibility that some of these areas had been terraformed since he was in the process of doing the same to Planet Wisp in order to make it more habitable.

Eggman also made the theme park with the express interest of easing the population's fears so he could brainwash them, so lots of people had to be there even though they were unseen. It would make more sense to assume said planet is Earth. Why? Because we've never seen a huge anthro population on either planet. So if we're operating under the assumption that unseen humans outside of the main cast means they don't exist on a planet (and subsequently a lack of them = Mars), then the same burden of proof should hold true for anthros, meaning without any NPCs in Colors we actually cannot logically discern the identity of the planet in Colors from that information alone.

However, we still do know- if the games are to be taken into account- that there probably isn't a whole lot of anything going on on Sonic's Mars because, under the burden of proof established by Sega, we've never actually seen a whole lot of people on that planet in person, which raises the question of why Eggman want to take over a planet that is hardly populated? Wouldn't it make sense to go for, yanno, the big ol' Earth with the huge amounts of people that can worship him like he wants? Seriously, what does Mars have to offer him at this point?

Fair enough that it's reasonable to assume that the attraction beam is probably too weak to attract a planet of comparable size. Just as well, while the planets are tiny, we don't actually know how far out they originally were before Eggman reeled them in. And it takes massive amount of energy to send stuff out into space and have it return in a time that would be considered efficient for his plans. So if he's plucking planets from beyond the galaxy (which I assume he would be since, 1.) Sonic and Tails had no idea about the Planet Wisp or what Wisps even were, so one can assume that if Planet Wisp was within the galaxy and hosting life to that degree, it would actually be general knowledge in the vain of us knowing that Saturn has rings made of ice, and 2.) He's harnessed the energy to physically threaten Earth plenty of times. He can't harness the energy to move it?), then it's probably not unreasonable to suggest he could somehow do such a thing.

[Indigo Rush]

I'm...not sure?

To clarify I've made a very professional diagram of how I've interpreted it.

I was under the understanding that it was more like this:

Except it isn't explained if Sonic was born on Marsbius or not. It's kinda vague, but there's no indication that Sonic's World is in another dimension. The only similarity to Sonic X is that the planet with animals on it is not Earth and the planet with humans on it is Earth, with exceptions; Sonic being on Earth and Eggman being on Segareticuli Wedon'thaveanameforthisplanet X.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Pic

That's how I thought it was when I read it too...

Vingas? Heh heh.

[Indigo Rush]

South Island is in New Zealand:

Also, there's a Green Hill in there.

 

Also, Christmas Island:

On the other side of Australia, opposite of where South Island is.

 

So yeah.

Earth.

[Diogenes]

I was under the understanding that it was more like this:

*snip*

Except it isn't explained if Sonic was born on Marsbius or not. It's kinda vague, but there's no indication that Sonic's World is in another dimension. The only similarity to Sonic X is that the planet with animals on it is not Earth and the planet with humans on it is Earth, with exceptions; Sonic being on Earth and Eggman being on Segareticuli Wedon'thaveanameforthisplanet X.

I guess thinking back there is no hard evidence for it being an actual separate universe. But the way the whole thing feels cribbed from Sonic X, the existence of a "gate" between worlds, the 4chan guy not saying outright that Sonic's world is Marsbius...fuck it, I don't know, I shouldn't even care, it's all just half baked bullshit anyway.

[Nepenthe]

What if the reason Sonic Is always in the human world , was because some of the CHAOS EMERALDS were on Earth, while the rest was on Mobius, thus making both planets... Join or maybe some of mobius' habitants and islands (Like angel Island) go to earth.

This makes sense until you realize every single game with the Emeralds in them- regardless of what planet they now supposedly take place on- always features a full set to be gathered from scratch without any planet hopping to retrieve all of them.

Furthermore, we've yet to still reconcile Angel Island. If the classic games take place on Mars, yet Adventure takes place on Earth, how is Angel Island in both places? Where the hell does Knuckles come from? The only way these two things would make sense is if there is either- for some reason- two sets of Emeralds, or there's some cross dimensional bullshit.

But the point is that this development literally doesn't make any sense and there's no reason trying to entertain how it works like this is a Five Nights installment where we can reasonably be sure the creator actually put some thought into it.

[Sean]

What if Sonic X was meant to replace SA1 and 2 in the canon all along

[KHCast]

Do we get a playable reenactment of Shadow hitting Chris?

[Indigo Rush]

But that would make Chris canon and I really don't think anyone on this planet wants that

 

 

and by this planet, I mean earth

 

 

I'm sorry I really shouldn't have to specify that but this canon shenanganoncanon fanon is making me question reality

it's 11pm I should be getting to bed

[Sean]

So what planet do you guys think Sonic Chronicles takes place on?

[Diogenes]

Judging from the music, hell.

[LongcrierCat]

 Ohhhh kaaaaayyyyyy .... So... The Sonic World is basically Mars. 

https://archive.moe/v/thread/300121994/#q300131805 (if the direct link doesn't work (CTRL + F "Bible")

It matches up with what Gene posted on Retro, what Iizuka has said, and it pre-dates Ruby's interview about the two worlds thing and goes into some more detail on it.

 

 

Pack Yo Bags SSMB, lets go... TO MARS!

 

No, wait. This means that there's three planets. Earth, Sonic's Dust Ball, and Mobius Flavoured Mars Bar are there. Have we seen any games to take place on the Mars Bar? Or is the Genesis series all on Sonic's World, also calling it Sonic's World is lazy and it should be the actual Mobius, and then he found a portal to Earth? Also, is this limited to just Sonic or is this the whole Sega Universe? I don't see why Sonic's universe alone should be this complicated unless there's this weird comic continuity laden plan that there's an Earth-2, Earth-616, and so on that allows us to make sense of how these non-Sonic games can all take place at the same time. That means there must be this Mongo/Savage Planet world that Golden Axe is on, there's Ristar's solar system, Earth where normal racing games and E-Swat and Streets of Rage take place on and the like. A lot of Sega Games do weird time travel/dimension and planet hopping just as much as Sonic does. 

There's no reason for this to be so complicated unless this is in whole of the Sega Universe, but it does make more sense of the lack of landscape and landmark continuity between the Adventures, Heroes, and Shadow, but it's needlessly complicated and is never explained in games. And if this was serious and there's an Earth and a Sonic's World and Mobius Bar, then where the hell did Station Square and Central City go in Unleashed? Or is it on Sonic's World? And Riders? Is it the planet between Star Gates or is it, maybe, that Mars Bar Mobius between the three and has gone under some cyberpunk-tech savvy John Carter stuff? 

It makes sense, but at the same time, the big question is why and does this include dimension hopping and include the alternate media Sonics? Or were they on either of these three planets? Also, with this, why does this limit the alternate media Sonics to just the modern Sonic continuity? Are the comic characters still around primed for a future appearance in games now? Or does the alternate media stuff not even matter? And if it doesn't matter, why did you hold Archie to all these mandates? 

Does this explain the sudden stupidity and mood swings like Tails's outbursts in Lost World? Are they having intense Space Jet Lag? Someone can't handle their planet hopping, huh? 

Is this better than retconning everything past 1998? At least before that point, everything made sense. This is more complicated than the FNaF timeline. 

[Indigo Rush]

Both Takashi Iizuka and Aaron Webber are having a great laugh reading this while drinking saki 

[Nix]

So what planet do you guys think Sonic Chronicles takes place on?

I like to lump Sonic Chronicles into the same shithole where Mass Effect 3's ending happened.  So I pretend it doesn't exist like everyone else should.

 

[Indigo Rush]

For the record, AAUK (Kevin Eva) who was the community manager of Sega Europe at the time had stated that Sonic Chronicles was one of the "non-canon" ones, anyway.

[antyep]

pretty much because it takes place after the latest Sonic game. So its canon in itself, meaning its not canon.

But then again, what the hell is canon in the Sonic series, anyways?

[Celestia]

Between Chronicles' reception and the Penders debacle, I'm sure SEGA barely cares about it's existence, let alone it's canon status.

[Sean]

I hope you guys are aware that 100% of my posts in this topic thus far have just been me dicking around hahaa

[Bowbowis]

So what planet do you guys think Sonic Chronicles takes place on?

The third unmentioned planet that every other game from 1991 to 2011 must have taken place on in order for the series to make the slightest bit of sense.