Double jump discussion

[PerfectChaos]

http://imgur.com/a/ledWo

What is the consensus on Colours' double jump as opposed to the traditional Air Dash? 

I find it to be a very welcome replacement, given that the only real use for the homing dash is in situations where you're going to fall short of a platform horizontally, but the double jump can not only do the same thing, but can of course help you with platforms too high as well, not to mention the fact it doesn't have fixed momentum and movement since you have air control. The way the air dash has a fixed distance and loses speed more harshly, is un-intuitive to me. At least in its current incarnation - the variant from the Adventure era obviously wasn't quite like this. Although even then, I'd prefer the double jump. 

Personally I hope to see it return beyond Lost World as a standard, hopefully like in Colours' version where Sonic does not uncurl. One of the things I like most about it is how it allows you to more viably take on platform-heavy moments with speed, since you have a fallback double-jump but you still have the punishment of losing speed if you end up using it, a nice mechanic and contrast to Generations where a screw up of this sort is often just death or whatever.

Your thoughts?

Edited September 14, 2015 by PerfectChaos

[Nepenthe]

I like the Air Dash because it gives you the choice of forward momentum when you're stuck dead in the air after being launched somewhere or when falling, which can be a nice recovery option or another reason to give Sonic Team a reason to put alternate paths and platforms in the air. However, a double jump is also pretty useful because it also allows you a recovery option that's more precise and controllable. I don't really consider one a replacement for another and as such could live with both being in the same game. However, so long as it's not Colors' double jump it'll be cool, because Colors' is just awful in the way Heroes' aerial controlling was. You get barely any air time or maneuverability.

[PerfectChaos]

I like the Air Dash because it gives you the choice of forward momentum when you're stuck dead in the air after being launched somewhere or when falling, which can be a nice recovery option or another reason to give Sonic Team a reason to put alternate paths and platforms in the air. However, a double jump is also pretty useful because it also allows you a recovery option that's more precise and controllable. I don't really consider one a replacement for another and as such could live with both being in the same game. However, so long as it's not Colors' double jump it'll be cool, because Colors' is just awful in the way Heroes' aerial controlling was. You get barely any air time or maneuverability.

That's fair, and I can see why Colours' might be disliked for that reason, but to me the level design was such that it wasn't an issue and it just gave an extra nudge vertically rather than a true extra jump. I guess in actual 3D platforming which Colours lacked, you'd probably need a more generous double jump height.

[Nepenthe]

I tend to abuse the double jump in games where it's available to give myself as much of a margin of error as possible when doing more focused platforming. Not only was it frustrating to use on certain vertical platforms because it doesn't clear the edge all that well, but it wasn't enough to actually save me in the one situation I found myself in where any other double jump worth its salt would've done so. There's a bit in Aquarium Park where it turns back to 3D and you're boosting forward. Without any warning, a bottomless pit appears at the end of the path. I actually had the reflexes to make the jump the first time I encountered it, but I was too early in doing so and I tried relying on the double jump to carry me over. It did fuck all.

So yeah, I don't like it at all. xP

[azoo]

Why not a diagonal double jump? 

Granted, giving the player a push both forward (jump dash) and upward (double jump) might be a tad OP, it could be made pretty weak at no/slow speeds and be stronger at a brisker pace.

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.  

[NoirSuede]

Why not a diagonal double jump? 

Granted, giving the player a push both forward (jump dash) and upward (double jump) might be a tad OP, it could be made pretty weak at no/slow speeds and be stronger at a brisker pace.

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.  

Aren't forward double jumps diagonal bynature ?

[Dantemustdie00]

Eh, never was a fan of the double jump, seems kinda of a cheap way to get through a level aside from Boosting all the way through a level. I do prefer the Air Dash more.

I only accept Double Jumping if it was assisted by the Lighting shield, make you work for it. Shoot I prefer the homing attack is it is in Sonic Rush, you only use it once per jump when a enemy is in range, then you have to rely on good old fashion enemy jumps, course for 3D Sonic, I kinda want Homing attacks to be tied to a stamina meter or something. but that's just me.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Dantemustdie00

[Wraith]

At this point I'd rather a jump and air dash that lets Sonic keep his momentum. If you have little to no momentum in a certain direction, the air dash will just be really short and allow for perfecting your jumps. If you're running in that direction though, he'll get a huge boost forward. I don't really needs a double jump outside of maybe a power up like the lightning shield. 

[PerfectChaos]

Eh, never was a fan of the double jump, seems kinda of a cheap way to get through a level aside from Boosting all the way through a level. I do prefer the Air Dash more.

I only accept Double Jumping if it was assisted by the Lighting shield, make you work for it. Shoot I prefer the homing attack is it is in Sonic Rush, you only use it once per jump when a enemy is in range, then you have to rely on good old fashion enemy jumps, course for 3D Sonic, I kinda want Homing attacks to be tied to a stamina meter or something. but that's just me.

I remember Rush's Homing Attack being really finicky and unreliable though...

[Tara]

I actually really like Colors' double jump and never really had a problem with it, but that largely stems from the fact that Colors' level design never necessitated much beyond the double jumps' capabilities as far as I can remember.  As stated, though, they can both exist pretty well.  I'm thinking, for example, it might be possible to have a double jump happen with a standard tap of the jump button, while the Air Dash happen when you press the button with notable force.  Anyway, I liked the precision of the double jump, which is something I've always wished we had more of when it comes to platforming on high stages.  Generations' iteration of Sky Sanctuary could definitely have used something something that makes landing in a certain spot a little easier, especially when the physics themselves were a little slippery.

Air Dash does offer quick and seamless travel across a completely, 180-degree horizontal path, though, which might be useful for jumping across short gaps that, for example, have a threat that pops out from below.  Although even in that instance, the double jump usually seems like a perfectly viable option.

[Salamander]

I always liked the extra jumps and boosts associated with the Trick system in Sonic Rush / Adventure.  I don't know if I'd say they were ever useful in an organic fashion, but I liked that they were tied to another of the game's systems, as it lent the gameplay a sense of coherency.  I'm all for double-jumps in general as a simple expression of the fact that vertical upwards movement is far more limited than all other cardinal directions in standard platformer gameplay... but in general I think it should be rationalised.  Sonic 3 knew what it was doing when it handled jump modifications as shield bonuses.  Devoid of context I think I'd only be able to handle a double jump if the second jump was obviously different from the first - for instance, first jump is a traditional spin jump, the second jump uncurls, to emphasise that it's risky or a last resort.

[Blacklightning]

Why not just make it a character-specific ability? Sonic's more focused on moving forward than upward, so the jump dashes and homing attacks already better suit him in general - meanwhile, you can have another character that uses a double jump to gain height quickly and without sacrificing much agility for it. Probably Amy, because it'd work hand-in-hand with her hammer jump.