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What's wrong with Lost World?


LadyBrightcynder

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Hey people, it's 5 am, I have a massive headache and fever and can't sleep, let's talk about Sonic! Woo!

I was browsing the forum and I seem to notice there's a lot of hate for Lost World. And I have to ask... why? I admit I've only played the 3DS version, but I loved it to pieces, just as much as Generations, and found it a blast from beginning to end. It's got its flaws, sure, but I could overlook them for just the sheer amount of zany fun. It's came the closest in years to the feeling I got playing Sonic Adventure for the first time. Is it just the Wii U version that has issues, or do I just have a high tolerance for bad games? (Given I like Sonic 06... make your own conclusions ;3)

Anyone want to share their thoughts on this and enlighten me?

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From what I understand its a case of "2 SLOW" "2 MUCH LIEK MARIOS" Etc. Not to mention it did had some wasted potential here and there, namely with the Deadly Six being antagonists.

I can't speak for the fanbase obviously but that seems to be the general complaints. It seems like they're bored of it if anything.

Its a shame cause I do want to love the Deadly Six as characters but they didn't go anywhere with them and just made them bland stereotypes, though Zazz was a blast but I digress. I think most people would agree that they could had done so much more with it than what we got.

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It's just so meh. It's more or less a low budget effort filled with different things they just flung at the wall to see what stuck. The whole thing with the cylinder levels and whatnot was really boring also. Not to mention that the boss fights were horrifically unbalanced where you can kill them in two fully-charged homing attacks (Zena Part 2).

Honestly, by far the best and legit good parts were the DLC levels (NiGHTS, Yoshi, and Zelda). The whole game should've been about Sonic going to different Nintendo worlds, holy shit that could've been amazing. Preferably more open like Zelda's (but with the addition of a controllable camera).

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From what I understand its a case of "2 SLOW" "2 MUCH LIEK MARIOS" Etc. Not to mention it did had some wasted potential here and there, namely with the Deadly Six being antagonists.

I find this hilarious because I remember when Colours was released, some people were praising it because it was like Mario. (Not entirely sure where that comes from, but I haven't played enough Mario to know.)

Thanks for replying guys, really good to finally get some answers on this!

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Hey people, it's 5 am, I have a massive headache and fever and can't sleep, let's talk about Sonic! Woo!

I was browsing the forum and I seem to notice there's a lot of hate for Lost World. And I have to ask... why? I admit I've only played the 3DS version, but I loved it to pieces, just as much as Generations, and found it a blast from beginning to end. It's got its flaws, sure, but I could overlook them for just the sheer amount of zany fun. It's came the closest in years to the feeling I got playing Sonic Adventure for the first time. Is it just the Wii U version that has issues, or do I just have a high tolerance for bad games? (Given I like Sonic 06... make your own conclusions ;3)

Anyone want to share their thoughts on this and enlighten me?

These are a couple of my complaints:

-The story isn't bad but like the Wii Version of Sonic Colors, it doesn't explain the Lost Hex or who the Deadly Six and Zeti are.

-The Parkour Gameplay is interesting but the Wii-U Version doesn't do a good job of explaining how to use it.

-The Charged Homing Attack is broken. Either it happens or it doesn't, which makes Sky Road Act 4's boss super annoying to beat while making the other bosses too easy.

-Enemies don't have a clear indication of whether or not they can be defeated by Homing Attack or Kicking.

-Before the patch was added, not being able to get Lives after collecting 100 Rings made them kinda pointless.

-There's no Collection Room or Extras in the Wii-U Version, so you can't rematch cutscenes or listen to the game's music. After beating the game, there's not much else to do besides collecting the Chaos Emeralds to unlock Super Sonic.

-The Wii U Version has short levels while the 3DS are way too long and filled with bottomless pits.

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Somecallmejohnny's review is pretty much how I feel about the game. It's meh with a lot of its execution, the wisps weren't really intergratted all that well, and the game gets really annoying near the end(minus the boss). And that's just for the Wii U version. The 3DS version is better in terms of how Sonic handles, but the level design doesn't really do anything with it. That, and the stop and go method the game carries is really annoying. I hate having to stop to defeat an arbitrary number of enemies to progress in a sonic game just never sat well with me.(not to mention the stages are long as hell) The level design and the gimmicks in the 3DS just gets worse after the first two levels. And then there's the special stages, which I don't like at all due to the gyro. Both versions overall are just really meh, which sucks cause the parkour gimmick could be really interesting if used in a game with better level design and concepts built around it.

Edited by Michael Munroe
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The main reason I got sick of it is that there's practically no air control. Fair enough if you jump further if you're running fast and jump narrower if you're moving slow, but once you lose momentum in the air you can't simply move forward to get some of it back like nearly every other Sonic game I've ever played - I mean for fuck's sake even Sonic 4 got this right. There's almost no reason to do a walking jump because even with more delicate platforming it's so weak that you'll still miss incredibly basic jumps - in fact there's really not much reason to walk period, so much of the game is spent running that it really bothers me Sonic Team thought it was necessary to assign it its own button instead of making it the default speed. Never mind what people say about the speed of it, I would've been perfectly fine with the change of pace if I didn't have to commit to a jump before I'd even performed it, and jumping's a pretty nasty thing to fuck up when the entire genre literally revolves around it.

And yeah, the wisps. I feel they were gimmicky and pointless in the first place, so the fact that they'd not only returned with zero story context in Lost World, they'd even gone as far as making them mandatory for several sections, didn't sit well with me. And like the parkour moves it wasn't always entirely clear how to even use them properly, especially in the case of Eagle, Asteroid and (to a lesser extent) Bomb. The fact that they were originally controlled exclusively via the touchscreen and gyroscope didn't help.

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I really enjoyed it so I see it less as a bad game and more of one that isn't intuitive or, if you're not a fan of the gameplay, rewarding. Parkour is hard to figure out, and nearly every wisp feels literally tacked on because only one or two levels require their usage. I had to put in more than the usual amount of effort to figure out what the game had to offer and how to control it properly. Once I realized how to use the Spin Dash effectively, I had a blast speeding through levels and keeping up momentum.

It's still really fun for me to go back to and to be honest it's one of my favorite 3D Sonic games. It just lacks polish and it doesn't feel like an entirely complete game.

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As I see it, the main problem with Lost World is that it takes a gameplay concept that meshes greatly with Sonic's type of fast-paced / momentum-based gameplay (parkour mechanics) and treats it more like an afterthought. I also hold some sticking points the game's narrative, characterization, and setting; but I'm just going to focus on the gameplay (Wii U version in particular) with this post.

Sonic's longstanding gameplay mechanics and controls were rewritten on what seems to be an arbitrary whim. He's now too slow at walking speed, he loses speed when turning (regardless if he's walking or running), his standard homing attack is more automated than before (though a fair amount of people seem to like this, so YMMV), and several new gameplay moves -the bounce attack, the kick homing attack, and the charged homing attack come to mind- only exist to slow people down and force them to defeat specific badniks/bosses that only show up in certain levels; so there is no gameplay coherence in their use.

The parkour itself isn't too greatly designed either. It's very rigid and seems to be designed on a gridlike basis, which doesn't exactly allow for gameplay flow. And you have to be using the run button in order to use it, which leads to several moments where you end up doing something you did not want to do. Then there are the return of the Wisps and their (initially required) motion controls, which seem to be shoehorned for the absolute sake of it from both a gameplay and narrative context; and the (again, initial) lack of gaining lives with 100 rings extra life-which while actually isn't new to the series (Colors did this too); only adds to the frustration as to what many perceive as an unbalanced spike in general difficulty with the game's later levels. Those last two in particular got so much grief, the developers ended up releasing a patch that addressed both points.

In both the case of the changed gameplay mechanics and the new gameplay mechanics, they wouldn't be too bad in their execution; if the game didn't fail to do a good job of explaining their use. There are some gameplay mechanics that you would only know by reading about reading up about the game online or somehow figuring them out by yourself.

The level design, half of the time, comes off as a mess. There are some 3D levels that focus on the player's use of parkour and/or some decent platforming, and get it right. But then you have a fair amount of 3D levels that lack either of the two elements and don't get it right; a bunch of 2D levels that feel like game content filler more than actual gameplay substance; and several "gimmick" levels which have the player partake in something completely different from the base gameplay and sometimes also have next to nothing to do with the narrative / setting. The level design in the later levels is especially guilty of this, as it also ramps up the difficulty and starts requiring the player to use moves they may never use again throughout the entire game.

The overall result is a game that's very unfocused on its game design and lacks a lot of polish and balancing. Like others have said, it seems a lot more like a bunch of experiments that were rushed together into a game. And for me, it especially stings as I think it opens up more game/level design possibilities and has more longevity as a gameplay style much more than the playstyle that came before it (boost gameplay). And because they didn't get it right the first time and how well-received the previous playstyle was; it's possible this game's gameplay will be a one-off and Sonic Team will go back to the former playstyle for future Sonic titles. Which may be great for some; but my interest in new Sonic games would arguably grab its coat. :|

Edited by Gabe
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I too have only played the 3DS version.  I think the parkour is very stiff and automated for a mechanic that's meant to be about freedom of movement, I find the levels to be rather tiresomely linear with an overabundance of bottomless pits, and the story cutscenes often feel stilted by amateurish writing and disjointed by being chopped up with multiple levels in-between.

On the other hand, I am the only person who liked the gyroscope-controlled special stages; I thought the level design was sometimes weak, but I found them fun to play through and admired the innovation in how they played.  And for that matter, credit where credit's due, they had to learn how to do a 3D Sonic game on a portable for I think the first time, and I appreciate that they made the effort even if it wasn't very good.

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 The whole game should've been about Sonic going to different *SEGA*  worlds, holy shit that could've been amazing.

There, fixed it. Sonic running down on a Daytona track, riding dinosaurs in Golden Axe, doing Pirate battles in Skies of Arcadia, Yes.

Only played the 3ds version. Game's a little too abstract for my tastes and the combat gets too much focus.
Altough I admit, the platforming has tons of potential, love the idea of having parkours freedom.
Needs to be a little bit smooth, but hey, as a concept I approve.
But I want Sonic to be in a slightly more grounded envirement.
Cartoony/ Mario esque is fine, but not boring flying abstract islands in space, that's dull.
I get no joy in navigating these stages, I just feel like I'm jumping trough hoops in a strict obstacle course rather then flying wild and free as Sonic should be.

Most of the anger/ fear for this game comes from the typical "Is this Sonic's future??" mindset that consumes most fans.
I'm sure as soon as we've gotten ourselves some  more balanced high budget Sonic games again, this game will be looked back to as a weird and semi succesful experiment. Right now, people are just tired that Sonic keeps doing weird things, especially since Sonic Generations FINALLY seemed to have made the first few steps toward a proper 3d Sonic and we were looking forward to Sega expand upon that instead off jumping of yet another weird experiment cliff.

Sonic needs a couple got solid clean games first before the fanbase can tolerate another experiment.
So far as I'm concerned, I consider Lost world to be Shadow the hedgehog's alternative dimension twin brother.
Too far in one art direction, interesting story ideas butchered by awkward execution, a plain solid Sonic gameplay mode at the core but derailed by weird gimmicks around it.
There's joy to be found but severe balancing issues and a severe identity crisis scares of most people.

Edited by Roger_van_der_weide
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Honestly, by far the best and legit good parts were the DLC levels (NiGHTS, Yoshi, and Zelda). The whole game should've been about Sonic going to different Nintendo worlds, holy shit that could've been amazing. Preferably more open like Zelda's (but with the addition of a controllable camera).

 

I believe the DLC levels were Sonic Team experimenting some more after Lost World's tepid reception, and then after they've finished the Zelda level everyone at Sonic Team was like YESSSS WE'VE FINALLY FOUND THE ONE FORMULA WE'VE NEEDED IN OUR LIVES

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The game was mediocre, with unfair difficulty that punished the player with very little warning. I've actually fully completed the game and it gets easier the more you play it but, on a first playthrough, it throws a lot of nonsense at the player's way. The terrible controls don't help much with the difficulty either. It also has a lot of fluff 'variety' missions that add little to the game, especially as the main gameplay (typically the first levels of each world) is so much more enjoyable. Oh, and the bosses sucked. 

I don't think people would mind so much now, it would just be another mediocre Sonic game, but it crashed and burned with quite a lot of hype, right off the success of Colours and Generations.

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Interesting that you loved the 3DS version so much OP, as that version actually fell under heavier criticism than the Wii U one, due to each zone only having one "proper" stage, one 2D stage, and one stupidly long gimmicky stage.  Also the Wisps, while better, were very heavily used on 3DS, while the Wii U wisps were worse but mostly optional.  3DS also fell under heavy criticism for enforced gyro controls on the Wisps, Special Stages, and Silent Forest's boss.  People also disliked that it only had 6 proper zones, with Lava Mountain just being a boss rush, and Hidden World being absent entirely.

For me personally, I really disliked how clunky and starty-stoppy the parkour was in the Wii U version, found the story to be funny but full of weird character personality choices and missed potential and awkwardly clumsy attempts at character development (while the Deadly Six failed on both story AND being funny).  The soundtrack was a bit weird for a Sonic game, lacking the flair and style of Sonic's usual music (not a fan of the saturday morning cartoon instrumental theme over vocal music).

The stage tropes were very uninventive and literally followed the exact same pattern the New Super Mario Bros games go for with their trope design which felt a bit off, especially due to the obvious Mario Galaxy comparisons already being made.

I will say though that I love the 3DS version's game engine.  Sonic is so responsive and a joy to play, and the parkour is much easier to understand and less fiddley to utilise there, I've had great fun speedrunning those long stages that were initially awkward and puzzley to play by skipping over segments with clever parkour usage.  I really wish we could have had the Wii U level design with the 3DS game engine.

I too have only played the 3DS version.  I think the parkour is very stiff and automated for a mechanic that's meant to be about freedom of movement, I find the levels to be rather tiresomely linear with an overabundance of bottomless pits, and the story cutscenes often feel stilted by amateurish writing and disjointed by being chopped up with multiple levels in-between.

On the other hand, I am the only person who liked the gyroscope-controlled special stages; I thought the level design was sometimes weak, but I found them fun to play through and admired the innovation in how they played.  And for that matter, credit where credit's due, they had to learn how to do a 3D Sonic game on a portable for I think the first time, and I appreciate that they made the effort even if it wasn't very good.

Sorry special snowflake I too loved the 3DS special stages so there >8C  I even made a video in the defense of them at the time, basically showing how the control scheme worked flawlessly when you played it standing up and using your whole body to move - they were just wholly inconvenient for portable play which is a very bad thing to do in a handheld game.

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There, fixed it. Sonic running down on a Daytona track, riding dinosaurs in Golden Axe, doing Pirate battles in Skies of Arcadia, Yes.

I would've loved...no, KILLED for this!

But yeah Lost World, I just wasn't a fan of the controls and also the Cylinder shaped levels  was too meh for my taste. I also not a fan of the whole control of Speed thing, I rather they brought back Sonic Adventures speed control which it flt a lot more easier to control Sonic during platforming. 

However, I LOVED the idea of Parkour through, I don't think these levels were the best to see them through, also bringing back the Spin dash over the typical boost and Super Peel out animation I also digged.

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From what i saw about the game its really cool. I like that you can control the speed, as i dont really like that in unleashed/generation you can go trough the stage by just boosting and jumping.I didnt like in those games that they made just bautifull backgrounds but no one look s at them and jump boosts. I wanted the spin dash back, as its the most iconic sonic power/ attack. But yeah, i must say, the boss battles dont require much skill( besides the fights with zavok)

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I actually quite liked Lost World to the point where I wouldn't have minded seeing it expanded upon and improved as the main format.  That being said, I do recognize that it is flawed and there are a lot of baffling control and design choices.  The level design is a little subpar, admittedly, and the enemy placement leaves a lot to be desired.  I feel like the majority of the enemies are placed as detractors and not strategically.  See, for example, how in SA1 and the classics, the enemies will stop you dead in your tracks if you get hit by them, but many of the enemies are also vessels for progression when using the momentum you achieve and maintain as a result of taking them out certain ways.  In SLW, the enemies are either just sort of there or serve as a mini-boss fight to keep you from progressing forward and remind you that they're there in the first place.  They're not as bad is this department as the Advance and Rush games, but it is still a glaring problem with the level design.  I also just find some of the challenges you have to do to be just daunting.  Like, come on, guys, I didn't appreciate that golf mini game in Sonic '06, what makes you think I want to lead an apple into a fan?  It's miserable.  That's a waste a perfectly good apple juice, too.

On the control side, I do think the parkour is a little clunky, and I do think it's totally weird that Sonic's momentum changes depending on which side of the screen he's facing.  And yeah, the physics aren't like Genesis accurate, but I actually find that to be a comparatively minor complaint.  It is a little weird to control at first, but not really in such a way that it bothers me?  It might be because I grew up with games that are a little clunky, so I don't mind it small amounts.

But really, those are just minor complaints from me, because I actually thought the game was fun in spite of all that.  I think it could definitely be improved and expanded upon to make a truly great game.  Where the game really kind of vexes me is the story.  I'm not going to go into the whole Sonic and Tails' relationship thing and Eggman and Orbot and Cubot.  Those don't really bother me so much, because I'm a lot more forgiving when it comes to plot hiccups and narrative inconsistencies, particularly since Pontac and Graff's writing style isn't really aiming for cohesive masterpiece, which is a fine enough direction on its own.  What bothers me is the role of Knuckles and Amy, who are just sort of there.  It's like they want you to know that they're focusing on the extended cast again, but don't want to actually do the work of actually focusing on them.

Otherwise, I think SLW is a fun product.  I do see why it's flawed, but I don't think it's a horrible game at all.  There are some people who consider it more fundamentally broken than Sonic '06, and I really just don't understand it.  I mean, it's their opinion and all, but I just don't.

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Hooray, I thought I was the only one who found Lost World 3DS to be a great game! And this is from a guy who doesn't like 06 or RoL.

But yeah, Lost World is definitely an interesting game, to say the least.

The Wii U version is alright. I really do love the idea of parkour and should definitely be a mainstay mechanic for Sonic, keeps him different from other characters. The visuals look very clean but not really great either, a bit too basic for my taste. The level design is also kind of eh as well though I do think most of the 2D levels and Tropical Coast Zone 3 were pretty good. Bosses were lame though I did like Zavok's boss battles as well but it's nice to have them at the end of a stage rather than its own act. The control scheme is overtly complex for Sonic and overall, the game feels pretty lackluster. Then again, I felt the same about Colors but I enjoyed Lost World more since it tried different things even though it still has a lot of missed potential and plenty excess fat to get rid of.

LW3DS is bae! The levels are much better designed especially the 3D ones. The wisps control pretty alright and are implemented very well. The controls are much simpler and though he is pretty slippery but controls nicely. Some levels do go long but never to 10 minutes but atleast 8 mins tops but I guess that's a bit much for a handheld game. The Special Stages are really fun with pretty solid motion controls though it should have been traditional controls instead. The bosses are simple but are very enjoyable to beat especially when you use the Wisps, Zeena gets rekt m8! 

The music while not entirely Sonic-y, has quite a diverse soundtrack, more diverse than SA1, and the story is pretty awkward but the best moments are definitely the best moments especially since Roger starts to flex his vocal muscles here and perfects it in Boom.

So yeah, Lost World was a step-down from games like Gens or Colors, though those games weren't exactly amazing either (good games but that's just it, good), it certainly has some interesting ideas that should be used in future titles.

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From what i saw about the game its really cool. I like that you can control the speed, as i dont really like that in unleashed/generation you can go trough the stage by just boosting and jumping.I didnt like in those games that they made just bautifull backgrounds but no one look s at them and jump boosts. I wanted the spin dash back, as its the most iconic sonic power/ attack. But yeah, i must say, the boss battles dont require much skill( besides the fights with zavok)

The problem is that instead of using the analogue stick to control your speed like in basiclly every 3D platformer after Mario 64, they decided to use a sprint button for some reason, which wastes a button and makes the game feel very binary.

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"ITS BECAUSE ITS ON DA WII U BWHA!" I like Lost World and I find it to be an enjoyable experience but the I have my problems with it. The game really reeks of experimentation. I am cool with franchises doing different things but holy crap it really felt like they were unsure what direction they wanted to go with it. 

Parkour was a good idea but the problem with it was that it was implemented wrong and they don't even explain how to do it. The only way I was able to master it to some degree was by complete accident. I welcome the idea to come back but they need to polish it and explain how it works

The level design played it too safe and I understand why their doing it to complement the new gameplay style so I can see why people aren't a fan of it, the same goes with the art style it feels a bit too...simplistic(?) for my liking and comparing it to Mario feels like an insult to that franchise.

They wisp felt like an afterthought in this game. Seriously how did they get right in colors then just screw it up with Lost World? I can't explain it but the wisp are terrible in this game. In Colors they felt like a rewarding alternate path here its just so urgh. 

There are other problems like the kick and charged homing attack and the story but I feel as if those are nitpicks at best.

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Strangely I prefer the usage of Wisps in Lost world.
They had a better flow with the level design in that the direction and objectives of Sonic remained largely intact.

In Colors, I had the feeling I constantly had to re-wire my brain and aproach the game diffrently everytime I had a new Wisp, which constantly knocked me out of my rhythm.
Ah, drill wisp, now I have to navigate an enormous labyrinth.
Oh, blue block wisp, now I'm in a Zelda dungeon thing.
Ah, Spike Wisp, now it's Sonic on steroids.
Ah, eat Wisp, now it's an arcade-style object destroy thing.
Uh, float wisp............Why.

Altough I suppose that might be the reason why you actually prefer that, it does give Colors levels more dynamic and keeps the player on their toes. But as for me, eh.

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The problem is that instead of using the analogue stick to control your speed like in basiclly every 3D platformer after Mario 64, excluding Super Mario Galaxy series, they decided to use a sprint button for some reason, which wastes a button and makes the game feel very binary.

I just fixed your post for you.

Yeah, I think I have problems with Sonic Lost World. The 3D Yellow Drill sections are very annoying in Tropical Coast Zone 1(WiiU), Tropical Coast Zone 3 & Extra(3DS). Sonic is so "sluggish" in 2D sections(WiiU). I feel that certain zones looks like about the same as dungeons in Zelda 3D games. You need strategies and concentration to complete those zones. And, Sonic's double jump in SLW is more vulnerable, but faster than his in Sonic Colors.

But I like Infinite Spin Dash in SLW, which is better than the original Spin Dash & Sonic Boost.

Upon the release of SLW, I watched IGN's review about that game, but it didn't make any sense. I wonder why Sonic's controls in SLW are about the same as Rouge's controls in SA2.

Speaking about that, I think Sonic Lost World is a good game, and I want to defend it because it seems that Sega was too much to focus on competing Super Mario 3D World with Sonic Lost World while they were working together with Nintendo in 2013. Yeah, like Super Mario 3D Land & Super Mario 3D World, Sonic Lost World is a 3D classic & modern hybrid game because of its stages and gameplay, especially animals and Classic Tornado.

Also, Sonic Lost World is a "buggy" game. Take a look at this:

image.thumb.jpg.d8a8d5e59b40b62d160c03c4

Here comes Super Sonic with two mouths!

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I just fixed your post for you.

Yeah, I think I have problems with Sonic Lost World. The 3D Yellow Drill sections are very annoying in Tropical Coast Zone 1(WiiU), Tropical Coast Zone 3 & Extra(3DS). Sonic is so "sluggish" in 2D sections(WiiU). I feel that certain zones looks like about the same as dungeons in Zelda 3D games. You need strategies and concentration to complete those zones. And, Sonic's double jump in SLW is more vulnerable, but faster than his in Sonic Colors.

But I like Infinite Spin Dash in SLW, which is better than the original Spin Dash & Sonic Boost.

Upon the release of SLW, I watched IGN's review about that game, but it didn't make any sense. I wonder why Sonic's controls in SLW are about the same as Rouge's controls in SA2.

Speaking about that, I think Sonic Lost World is a good game, and I want to defend it because it seems that Sega was too much to focus on competing Super Mario 3D World with Sonic Lost World while they were working together with Nintendo in 2013. Yeah, like Super Mario 3D Land & Super Mario 3D World, Sonic Lost World is a 3D classic & modern hybrid game because of its stages and gameplay, especially animals and Classic Tornado.

Also, Sonic Lost World is a "buggy" game. Take a look at this:

image.thumb.jpg.d8a8d5e59b40b62d160c03c4

Here comes Super Sonic with two mouths!

I fixed your fix for you.

The Infinite Spin Dash is cheating because with it you basically can't lose speed at all, which makes it an infinite, reskinned Boost.

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