Jump to content
Awoo.

Dear Internet: Grow Up


SuperStingray

Recommended Posts

I found nothing wrong with that particular video. She's pointing out the ridiculousness of a striptease ad campaign in subways where women prefer to ride gender-specific subway cars. Her point is valid in Japan or anywhere.

 

As for Bayonetta I don't think she's sexy - her proportions are too tall, she's too skinny, and her "sexy" moves are funny to me. But I find myself wondering how I'd approach a girl like Anita for her number without being uh, patriarchal?

Edited by American Ristar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My usual flippancy?

 

Well, with all due respect, Turbojet, posts like this:

 

Rosa Parks is rolling in her grave. 

 

And that was a response to a video that she advocates gender segregation. The racist part has to do with her lack of perspective in regards of cultural relativity. Again, back to my paper I go.

 

... do make you come across as being a wee bit snobbish and disrespectful, and your argument does suffer a bit for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing personal turbojet, but if you can't really make an extensive argument for your point until you have time it would be better if you just wait until you have time rather than responses like this:

 

She justified segregation! REALLY?

 

This is already a heated enough topic as it is without responses that can easily escalate things. The topic will be here when you get back.

 

 

 

 

 

And that goes for everyone, okay?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gotta say, this whole idea that locking comments proves you're an intellectual coward feels like reaching to further pin Anita on something. For one, her doing so does not close all avenues you have of criticizing her content, so I don't empathize with the frustration. Make your own videos and articles, or hell, continue posting here; that's what the Internet is for. No one is barred from criticizing her, nor is she even barred from reading some of it, because she didn't want to put up with assholes on a single website. This is a ridiculous assumption, especially so considering I've seen videos of puppies doing tricks locked down for the exact same shit.

 

You have the ability to respond to the video but you don't have the ability to respond directly. Being able to post comments or video responses on the page offers a direct link to your viewpoint. People watching the video can scroll down and see oppositions.

Take that away and it means people have to actively search for these opposing viewpoints.

 

Do you really think that the people that blindly agree with everything in this video will take the time to look for these? do you think Anita herself is gonna take time out of her day to look for videos and forum discussions shooting her down?

 

Disabling comments and video responses isn't blocking all forms of discussion, but it is burying it.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comment sections of her videos don't for the most part contain anything related to 'discussion' or 'a critique of her opinion'. It's usually just trolling and downright awfulness, and I personally don't want to see it. Not because I'm closed off to other people's views or whatever, but because I just don't need to see rampant misogyny and hatred like that, it's gross and I don't want to read it. 

 

Considering all we've been able to discuss her videos and such here, I think it's kind of a null point. There is plenty of discussion everywhere 

 

So what?

 

When you thumbs down something on youtube, you're not critiquing it. You're just giving it a thumbs down. It's a youtube system that anyone can shut off, and personally I'd say if there's pretty extensive evidence that the results are skewed because of trolls, than what exactly does it accomplish to leave it up besides giving a way for trolls to troll more?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She deleted the video, but in the grand old age of the internet, someone resurfaced it.

And since this isn't a Anita Sarkeesian uploaded video, the comments are not disabled. Oh and look at the discussion. Intelligent discussion! By gods!

 

She is running away from accountability. Enough said.

About the video, the character as good traits even if the game is clearly over sexualized. But in my view it does this in way that is ridiculousness and makes it funny.  Funny thing the only positive thing she said isn't even true. Well there goes the research she did...

But the problem is that she used that game to get to a point that as nothing to do with the game itself, sure its bad that happens in Japan but that as nothing to do with the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comment sections of her videos don't for the most part contain anything related to 'discussion' or 'a critique of her opinion'. It's usually just trolling and downright awfulness, and I personally don't want to see it. Not because I'm closed off to other people's views or whatever, but because I just don't need to see rampant misogyny and hatred like that, it's gross and I don't want to read it.

 

I've had plenty of troll comments on videos of mine in the past but I just ignore them because I still get genuine comments critiquing my content.

 

Obviously sarkeesian has got far worse than I'll probably ever get and in a much higher quantity but she should realise that the comments are just trolls trying to get a rise out of her. I really don't feel it's a valid reason to shut down the quickest form of input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, considering that Anita's name has got so huge among trolls and people who legitimately dislike her works finding decent critique would be like finding a needle in a haystack of trolling comments. That alone kinda puts the decision to lock it out as a reasonable solution.

 

That's not saying that there isn't a problem with shutting out comments and criticism altogether, because that is just as much of a good point. But really, I'm tired of seeing you guys treat this as an either/or here in this discussion, because as far as it goes you're both right! 

 

The problem I see here is that both sides want the other side to be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a few troll comments is the equivalent of hundreds and thousands of disgusting comments that are offensive not only against her, but against women in general. I'm actually a comment reader, I tend to read comments (against my better judgement for the most part) and I have to say that I rarely ever see stuff like the comment sections of her videos, regardless of whether the topic matter is controversial or not. If Anita wants critique of her work, it's out there in many places for her to seek, and in much less trollish forms in a lot of cases. 

 

And I'm sorry but people really need to disassociate the youtube comment section as the place for valid feedback of work or criticism. Issues such as limited character count aside, in most philosophical/moral debates, you're not trying to argue with the person one on one like you all seem to think you have the right to. What is your major accomplishment of doing it that way that you don't think you have access to now? Are you expecting a response from her personally? Or that you will somehow have some major influence over her future videos? I hate to burst your bubbles, but for the first one it's rather doubtful (and not anything one should expect)....and the second one is just as likely to happen elsewhere. If anyone has looked, in this thread alone there are links to numerous responses to Anita's points and arguments. The space for the debate is laid out, across a wide variety of mediums and with a large audience of people. You're very much taking part of it right now.

 

If at this point you're still stuck on the comments, than it's likely your opinion is formed though so there's not much of a point to dragging it out endlessly.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I say this after actually reading her masters thesis which just cites anything made by Joss Whedon, contradicts itself and her videos, and just plain fucking sucks. She is a disgrace to real feminists with her retroactive and mundane views on what females should behave or how they should be portrayed while ignoring the cultural and heterosexual implications of her view, which often white liberal feminist do, and treating what is considered feminine as a weakness. 

 

Turbojet is right on about this.

 

This video goes over her embarrassing master thesis:

 

Anita peddles feminism for dummies: Watch a lot of tv, don't read any interesting/mind-broadening literature outside of assigned lecture readings, and regurgitate tropes in contradictory ways since she is clearly not a gamer. It's soulless thinking. 

 

To her fully dressed, strong & rational women = have a masculine nature & sex objects. Shy, emotional women = weak sex objects even when they drive the plot forward proactively. Anyone in between = whatever stereotypical archtype she pulls out of her butt. 

Edited by Get Over Here
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow that video.....was absolutely awful. Apparently quotes and having a bibliography now count as a bad thing? Because going out and reading other people's research is not considered doing research, I guess? And quoting a poet 'that nobody knows about' is supposed to be just a way to show off her college degree.....ya, that's a real rational and logically made point and definitely not just a snarky jab.

 

Plus some of the stuff he clearly didn't understand. When she listed the feminine and masculine traits, she was using the words terms of socially defined characteristics....not necessarily talking about female and male characters.......that's why in the postive feminine traits she wrote (in women only).

 

I guess if you talk in a slow voice and use good editing it's easy to sound like you're really ripping into someone when most of what you say is either laughable (quotes/references made you an unoriginal hack, using big words is just trying to show the world you're smart, picking examples from TV shows somehow means you 'only watch TV' and that's some weird insulting trait now?/etc), thinly veiled insults, or just coming from your lack of understanding of the material.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't get all the hate for Anita. Sure, she may not have any revelations when it comes to sexism in various media, but at least she's getting her voice out there and causing us to think about the issues. I may not personally agree with everything she is saying (a lot of the characters she references are automatically negative stereotypes of women because they are "damsels in distress") but I respect what she is trying to do. It seems like a lot of people are willing to write her off because they disagree with her viewpoint (a percentage even think there is nothing wrong with how women are portrayed in gaming or television as a whole), using an old Master's thesis to destroy any credibility she may have today. She's not harming the movement, and even if she was it wouldn't warrant the threats or overwhelming negativity she's receiving. Objectors seem to be having a problem with her rather than her argument.

 

I know what I just said may be treading old ground, but I really am sick of the comments plastered all over the internet criticizing her for things that aren't even relevant to the discussion.

 

Turbojet is right on about this.

 

This video goes over her embarrassing master thesis:

 

Anita peddles feminism for dummies: Watch a lot of tv, don't read any interesting/mind-broadening literature outside of assigned lecture readings, and regurgitate tropes in contradictory ways since she is clearly not a gamer. It's soulless thinking. 

 

To her fully dressed, strong & rational women = have a masculine nature & sex objects. Shy, emotional women = weak sex objects even when they drive the plot forward proactively. Anyone in between = whatever stereotypical archtype she pulls out of her butt. 

 

 

 

 

That video really doesn't say much about the content of her thesis besides a few cherry picked sentences and assumptions on the abundance of references she used. As for the other videos that are talked about...  a few good points are mentioned and in all likelihood Anita didn't do enough research to be persuasive,  that much is obvious, but the person criticizing Anita in the video above makes wild assumptions about her taking things at face value or not even attempting to see the bigger picture. It's just like the comment sections on most of her videos; if her argument isn't well formulated or researched enough then it is obviously the case that she took the material at face value and said "fuck it."

 

Also, being "a gamer" is irrelevant to her argument (it isn't like you need to be a professional at playing whatever game that comes out to actually analyze them).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They seem to hate her because a lot of her opinions are one-sided and in a worst case miss the whole point as she uses examples to show how women are in a bad light when it's sometimes not even the case or the complete opposite. Such as what she had to say about Y: The Last Man in her video about the Straw Feminist trope, being completely oblivous to the fact that Y: The Last Man was all about feminism and the different points of it and that the Straw Feminist were only ONE group of feminist that many of the other feminist demanded that they stay the fuck away from them, and how the various groups of feminism themselves can't agree to anything more than the most basic points of their movement (the author telling us himself that one thing every feminist has in common from Dworkin to Naomi Wolf is that if you put them all in a room, they would murder each other).

 

From what I've heard (and I need to verify this myself), some feminist also have a problem with Anita because she seems to have become the voice of such a diverse movement, and if the above is anything to say, they really don't agree with her views on some of the topics.

 

I think that she brings some things to our attention that need to be addressed, but in addition to that she often shoots herself in the foot getting her points across like the above example. The hate against her is rather extreme, and easily proves her point (at the same time, it's easy to see some as cherry picking on her part), but that's my take on the more moderate criticism.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonîc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Someone else wants $20,000 to make a video looking into the way women are treated in online games.

 

This is the new 'thing' isn't it?

 

Because you know, men don't get abuse in online games? Right?

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Anita was recently interviewed by CNN and barely mentions any of the support she has got just goes on about all the abuse she has received per usual. Rather than also take the opportunity to acknowledge the support she has received or admit there are people out there that have genuine criticism of her work and are not all trolls.sleep.png

Edited by BW199148
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone else wants $20,000 to make a video looking into the way women are treated in online games.

 

This is the new 'thing' isn't it?

 

Because you know, men don't get abuse in online games? Right?

To the personal extent that women do? Ummm....no?

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone else wants $20,000 to make a video looking into the way women are treated in online games.

 

This is the new 'thing' isn't it?

 

Because you know, men don't get abuse in online games? Right?

 

The other day I was playing GTA IV online. We were all just goofing off and shooting the hell out of each other with the cops chasing us around town. The chat was just full of everyone being silly and shouting stuff like "UNLOAD, NIGGA" or "THIS HOW WE ROLL IN DA HOOD" or whatever. 

 

Then some player named Emily Finnegan (found out it was just an alias when I talked to her later) joined in. Suddenly everyone's attention is focused on her, asking if she "wants the D", what her bra size is, etc. 

 

So from my own personal experience... no. Not to the same extent at all.

 

 

 

 

Anita was recently interviewed by CNN and barely mentions any of the support she has got just goes on about all the abuse she has received per usual. Rather than also take the opportunity to acknowledge the support she has received or admit there are people out there that have genuine criticism of her work and are not all trolls.sleep.png

 

For fuck's sake... she got a spot on CNN. Four minutes. She made her case, explained what she was doing, and talked about the abuse she suffered through. Her whole goal is to point out the misogyny in the gaming industry and community; what better way to do this than to cite her own experiences?

 

I get that people hate her, but some of these criticisms are just ridiculous.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That project would be better if it wasn't specifically aimed at how women are treated online. I get slapped with hatemail every single time I play CoD, I was harassed for months for having a Sonic gamerpic, I have even had several people throw racial slurs at me just becuase my avatar is black. People are guaranteed to talk mad shit online, and the best thing anyone can do is ignore it and move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time this topic gets bumped I peer in, hoping that episode two of the (now 13 part apparently) series has been released.....oh well, maybe next time

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the personal extent that women do? Ummm....no?

 

May I suggest you start playing games online then?

 

I only have to play some multiplayer games for less than 5 min before I'll either get abuse or see abuse being sent to someone else in the game, doesn't matter what they have between their legs, it'll happen regardless.

 

 

 

Her whole goal is to point out the misogyny in the gaming industry and community; what better way to do this than to cite her own experiences?

 

No it isn't. Her goal is to show the representation of women in videogames.

 

Anything else she does is just her trying to spin her agenda and views on men and women as some kind of critical standard, yet it's full of bias and lacks any solid foundation, and I can't believe the number of people who are falling for it.

 

 

The other day I was playing GTA IV online. We were all just goofing off and shooting the hell out of each other with the cops chasing us around town. The chat was just full of everyone being silly and shouting stuff like "UNLOAD, NIGGA" or "THIS HOW WE ROLL IN DA HOOD" or whatever.

 

Then some player named Emily Finnegan (found out it was just an alias when I talked to her later) joined in. Suddenly everyone's attention is focused on her, asking if she "wants the D", what her bra size is, etc.

 

So from my own personal experience... no. Not to the same extent at all.

 

And you've just proved my point... That nasty people are nasty regardless.

 

The whole 'it's not the same!'

 

Yeah right, of course not, being called a 'faggot' getting abuse on a sexual level, a mental level, a race level, heck I've even had a could based on the fact I am a man.

 

How is ANY of that any less offensive, any less hurtful, less threattening or any... less.

 

Someone explain how any of that is any less hurtful when all people want to do is play a videogame?

  • Thumbs Up 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I suggest you start playing games online then?

I only have to play some multiplayer games for less than 5 min before I'll either get abuse or see abuse being sent to someone else in the game, doesn't matter what they have between their legs, it'll happen regardless.

Yeah, if my signature of characters wasn't already a clue that play online games, then you should know that I play League of Legends, an online MOBA game that is infamous for having one of the most toxic player base known in gaming. I think I know all about the kinds of abuse that goes on in gaming, in that and in Xbox live games like CoD.

But what you fail to realize is that due to hardcore gaming being so Male dominated as it is, comments like "fuck you bitch ill kill u" to a man aren't exactly the same as "fucking bitch, i'll rape u if u dont go back to the kitchen " to a woman. That's a double whammy of abuse that adds sexism to the equation whereas the other is just a typical threat of violence. Neither one is acceptable, but they are different forms of abuse directed at a different group of people.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

. That's a double whammy of abuse that adds sexism to the equation whereas the other is just a typical threat of violence.

 

Sorry but... why do you think this is exclusively something women get? What because that particular message had 'get back in the kitchen' at the end? Sorry but I can think of several pieces of hate mail I've recieved and comments heard online which are equally degrading and sexist in nature that guys have recieved.

 

I got one glorious message on Metal Gear Online from someone who assumed I was gay and then told me I should go out and "suc fagg0t c0ck."

 

Now I wonder, had I not been a man, would I have still been subject to being called faggot? Would I get any gay abuse messages at all?

 

Ohhh wait... being a man, means I get gay/homophobic abuse online... Should I start a kickstarter to investigate this? I need $50,000.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry but... why do you think this is exclusively something women get? What because that particular message had 'get back in the kitchen' at the end?

Because of double standards of gender roles and interests that still linger to this day, one part of said double standard is that video games are like a boys club and said environment being more hostile and insulting to women than men. Men don't receive abuse because they're men (but when they do, that's generally an exception and a rarity), but women get the same abuse men generally get on top of abuse that is solely specific to their gender.

 

So if a guy online gets some kind of homophobic abuse which ends with him being called a faggot and to go suck cock or something... thats different how exactly?

Because it throws sexuality into the equation rather than sexism. Just like it's insulting to shout abusive comments towards women for their gender, it's insulting homosexuals for their sexuality.

Dude, abuse may be abuse, but there are forms of it that are directed torwards specific groups than just everyone in general. It's that exclusivity towards different groups that we happen to call "bigotry" for a reason, as not every insult thrown is treated equally.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonîc
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But why does she need twenty fucking thousand dollars to do something I could do by typing some things into Google and reading a few articles? Seriously, I don't know why all these gaming related Kickstarter documentary projects keep coming up with these girls needing ridiculous amounts of money to do it. I'm sure everyone who cares about it and would be willing to share their stories would help out anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But why does she need twenty fucking thousand dollars to do something I could do by typing some things into Google and reading a few articles? Seriously, I don't know why all these gaming related Kickstarter documentary projects keep coming up with these girls needing ridiculous amounts of money to do it. I'm sure everyone who cares about it and would be willing to share their stories would help out anyways.

 

If people want to donate to the cause, then who the fuck cares? She's liable under the law to deliver the content she promised anyway. Maybe the proceeds go toward travelling to conventions. Maybe it's for capture/recording software. Maybe it's to provide some money for food/rent while she takes off work to get it done well and in time.

 

It really doesn't matter so long she delivers what people are willingly paying for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.