Dear Internet: Grow Up

[SuperLink]

On the case of Peach, since Super Princess Peach happened, I'm pretty sure her constant role as damsel in distress is laziness more than anything.  

 

Not that that makes it any less shitty.

Yeah I agree. Nintendo are Japanese so they're not as keyed in to these issues on the same level as western critics and stuff, but they've heard the people calling for female protagonists so we can only hope things change from then on.

 

Also, Super Princess Peach wasn't the best example of female empowerment anyway because lol superpowers based on various modes of ~hysteria~. Mario is a figurehead of gaming, the sooner it sorts itself out the sooner other games will take notice and follow suite.

 

Mario 3D World has me hopeful for the future of Mario and Peach. Also don't forget Rosalina, who is never made into an object and is also kind of queen of the whole universe. Mario still has ways to go, but.. there are signs of change that people need to actively advocate.

Edited August 6, 2013 by SuperLink

[Jolt_TH]

I think the problem with this whole money fiasco is that she wanted it for "research" and we don't know what she actually meant by "research". Did she mean buying and playing? Did she mean watching? If she was to tell people what she needed the money for exactly the accusations could be proved true or false. (Haven't had a look at the videos in great detail, just looking at this at a logical viewpoint)

[iDEATH]

 

Amazingly, pointed out in the video, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

um...yeah. I know....I have watched the video you know, I was the one that posted it remember?

 

My point is, if she is happy with the trope being used in certain instances without thinking it sexist, then the trope isn't sexist in itself. It's the usage of the trope that counts.

 

So, if the context is all important, rattling off a massive list of titles saying "these all use the trope" isn't really good enough. If context is the key then you need to go into the context.

 

I'm not saying that these games aren't sexist, I don't know if they are or not, but I'm not going to just assume it is because she's lumped it in with a bunch of other games based on nothing else than a similar plot device.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Basically, Tropes are Tools and Tropes aren't (always) Bad, in other words?

Edited August 6, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Nepenthe]

Basically, Tropes are Tools and Tropes aren't (always) Bad, in other words?

 

Yes. In vacuous or minor contexts, a lot of tropes do not carry any inherently negative connotations. They're just cliche's. It is fine for Peach herself to be a princess that usually needs saving by Mario, and attacking her and only her on her own merits as a character smacks of displaced anger, because she is free to be nothing but a cliche'. But if we compare the proliferation of certain tropes versus examples that break the mold or do something different, and we come to find that the trope in question is the most overwhelmingly popular example, then it becomes much easier to attack the trope itself and any associative examples as being negative, hence why people may take issue with Peach anyway.

 

For example, a single black character in a work that wears gold chains and is ultra violent isn't offensively racist if the context surrounding him warrants or allows him being so, like if there are other black characters in different stations in life, or white characters that are of a similar disposition, or if he's a deliberate caricature to make a point or joke like in Family Guy, or whatever else. But if you have freaking hundreds of black characters in the same work that all wear gold chains and are all ultra violent, and there's no real reason for them to be, then yeah, your work is racist against blacks.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You'd think most of her opposition could be as academic in their criticisms against her points and be more tact about it, but apparently "STFU you retarded cunt" seems to do the job just perfectly for them.

[The Kid]

Well there are some people that do manage to produce rebuttal videos in an effort to try and dissect her point(s), but I've found a lot of these are a tad on the defensive side. There are a lot of people that take offense at what she is doing, as if she is saying that video games themselves are inherently sexist.

 

Then again, the fact this issue is even being raised is a good thing. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't see anything wrong with being on the defense when you can make a good point, but rather in being rabid and insulting about it. for every one person that offers a valid and intelligent critique and disagreement to what Anita says, 50 more will act like spoiled and entitled children and drown out that one person in the process.

 

But yes, it is a rather good thing that, for all my disagreements on certain topics that she exposed this junk out of people on the internet. But then again, that's just the GIFT in play here as well.

[Stacy]

I love that she puts a trigger warning saying that her video contains violence against women deliberately put as if to say the violence has no other context than to hurt women because they are women which is largely untrue, inaccurate and misleading most of the violence she will probably show at least in these early videos will be fantasy based and maybe with some scenes taken from violent games deliberately taken out of context to make her points look more valid.

 

I admit I can't watch her without getting frustrated at her taking moments from video games and taking them out of context or outright distorting them to reflect her views. The part where she uses the ending to GTA III is a prime example yes I can why should be offended at first but if she played the game enough she would know that it was a joke and that the game is satire. Of course she might have played the game enough she probably didn't mention that game was satire based because it would undermine her entire point of using GTA as a example. Also the protagonist might not of killed Maria he might of killed one of Catalina's men it doesn't show him shooting her.

 

Anyway I prefer watching people ripping her apart on youtube they can it more intelligent and eloquently put then I can.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpYINU6VkGA

Edited August 7, 2013 by BW199148

[Iggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=HJihi5rB_Ek

I found this woman's response to be very reasonable and educated. She has alot of valid points.

Edited August 7, 2013 by SheWhoRantsTooMuch

[Candescence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=HJihi5rB_Ek

I found this woman's response to be very reasonable and educated. She has alot of valid points.

Okay, this is absolutely brilliant, and a very mature and positive critique.

[Badnik Mechanic]

You'd think most of her opposition could be as academic in their criticisms against her points and be more tact about it, but apparently "STFU you retarded cunt" seems to do the job just perfectly for them.

 

People have been, I alone have posted tons of examples in this topic of people doing that, other people here have also done the same when it's not being ignored by the majority of those who are supporting her.

 

And do we need to bring up the whole 'why has she censored her critics by blocking comments and ratings on the video' again. What she's a fraid of getting nasty comments? Thats no excuse at all, you want to stand on a platform and make critical claims of a said media or artform, you'd better be ready and have a strong enough argument that it stands up to criticism. Locking, banning or censoring your critics only makes your argument weaker and pointless.

 

It's not even just her video content either, its stuff she's done around it. I keep bringing this one up because it's constantly being ignored...

 

She claims "The abuse I got on youtube proves that there is sexism against women in videogames"

 

How? How has that got ANY relation to the topic? How does the comments of random people online to a youtube video have an effect over the content that appeared in videogames which span over 3 decades?

 

But according to her and her supporters, thats evidence to suggest there is a sexist nature towards women in videogames, the industry and the wider fandom?

 

All because she got nasty youtube comments. Yet... there are literally hundreds if not thousands of popular youtubers who talk about games, are critical of games who are women that don't get abuse, are well respected and have really good points.

 

How is that evidence of sexism? If anything, it's evidence that people just don't like her.

 

She has done everything possible to avoid any kind of criticism against her content, which does make you wonder why she should get any attention anyway since she's trying to avoid both criticism of her claims and calls to show where and how she did her research following the youtube lets play thefts.

[Diogenes]

And do we need to bring up the whole 'why has she censored her critics by blocking comments and ratings on the video' again.

Every time you bring this up you get further and further from convincing me of anything.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Every time you bring this up you get further and further from convincing me of anything.

 

Yeah... yet you still can't actually defend this action can you?

 

The only defence people have for this is 'she might get nasty comments.'

[The Kid]

I don't see anything wrong with being on the defense when you can make a good point, but rather in being rabid and insulting about it.

 

But that is what I mean about being defensive. There is a difference between defending a stance and being overly defensive against any sort of criticism. It tends to make someone less logical and more emotional.

 

 

And do we need to bring up the whole 'why has she censored her critics by blocking comments and ratings on the video' again. What she's a fraid of getting nasty comments? Thats no excuse at all, you want to stand on a platform and make critical claims of a said media or artform, you'd better be ready and have a strong enough argument that it stands up to criticism. Locking, banning or censoring your critics only makes your argument weaker and pointless.

 

We really don't need to bring it up again, because every time it is people have responded in turn. She isn't censoring her critics, only blocking the nasty comments she has received where her video is posted. Her critics respond elsewhere, all over the internet, in forums and discussions like this. Her videos are posted on most major gaming sites with comments pages long debating her actions. She isn't censoring her critics, she's just disabling comments on her channel so it isn't flooded with derogatory speech.

 

Youtube isn't this forum of logical debate where critics make smart and insightful comments and are responded with such. It is similar to an artist disabling comments on DA or FA, posting the actual piece itself is enough.

 

 

It's not even just her video content either, its stuff she's done around it. I keep bringing this one up because it's constantly being ignored...

 

She claims "The abuse I got on youtube proves that there is sexism against women in videogames"

 

How? How has that got ANY relation to the topic? How does the comments of random people online to a youtube video have an effect over the content that appeared in videogames which span over 3 decades?

 

 

It may not prove that there is a misogynistic attitude in videogames themselves, but certainly it hints that the attitude persists in gamer culture if not our society as a hole. Speech such as "dumb bitch" and "stupid cunt" in response to someone posting a video on Youtube that is trying to spark conversation about women being represented in video games, an art form in this day and age, shows how childish people can be. I honestly don't know how you can't see the relation to the topic.

 

Yeah... yet you still can't actually defend this action can you?

 

The only defence people have for this is 'she might get nasty comments.' Pathetic.

 

People have constantly defended this action, you just don't listen. There isn't anything pathetic about it.

 

 

All because she got nasty youtube comments. Yet... there are literally hundreds if not thousands of popular youtubers who talk about games, are critical of games who are women that don't get abuse, are well respected and have really good points.

 

How is that evidence of sexism? If anything, it's evidence that people just don't like her.

 

She has done everything possible to avoid any kind of criticism against her content, which does make you wonder why she should get any attention anyway since she's trying to avoid both criticism of her claims and calls to show where and how she did her research following the youtube lets play thefts.

 

It really doesn't mean much when the nasty comments outweigh the insightful ones. The people that truly want to respond to her videos make their own videos with their own points. the Youtube comments section has proven itself literally hundreds if not thousands of times that it isn't a respectful place for conversation that has any hint of controversy.

 

The "Let's Play Thefts" argument for her as a con artist is a grey area if anything. You could debate that it isn't really the players content in the first place, especially if she is using footage from the story and without any sort of commentary which is part of the central reason people watch Let's Plays.

[Diogenes]

Yeah... yet you still can't actually defend this action can you?

 

The only defence people have for this is 'she might get nasty comments.'

She has already been getting nasty, racist, sexist, threatening comments. She's not obligated to provide a forum for assholes to harass her just because some people want to use it for a legitimate dialogue (as if a raging shitstorm of internet assholes is an appropriate place for that), and it's not some horrible act of censorship when you've got the rest of the fucking internet to talk about it.

People close the comments for far less, and no one says a fucking word.

The more you try to press this point, the closer you come to "too crazy to bother arguing with" in my mind.

[Badnik Mechanic]

She has already been getting nasty, racist, sexist, threatening comments.

So what? Report those. Get YouTube to sort it out if she's worried about that. You don't shut down or stop people from commenting or criticising your work because you're afraid of what 'might' happen.

This is literally the only defence people have for this "Oh she MIGHT get abusive comments." And again you point out how other people criticise games, both men and women yet they don't censor their viewers, they don't try and force their agendas onto people, and people reply both positively and negatively but also on the subject matter.

Why is she so special that it's ok for her not to allow her critics to comment?

She claims to be some kind of media critic, yet she's the only one I can think of who is actively trying to censor people or prevent people from challenging anything that she says or does. 

 

People close the comments for far less, and no one says a fucking word.

Are those people taking money and standing on a platform trying to get accross a theory that they claim to be correct?

 

The more you try to press this point, the closer you come to "too crazy to bother arguing with" in my mind.

And the more you constantly try and make out that it's not a big deal and it doesn't matter just proves how weak this defence is.

She's attempting to study something, let people directly criticise it. Otherwise why even debate it at all if she's not even going to let people directly challenge her opinions.

You are censoring those who have legitimate criticisms from challenging her claims and prompting debate in her own outlets.

[The Kid]

So what? Report those. Get YouTube to sort it out if she's worried about that. You don't shut down or stop people from commenting or criticising your work because you're afraid of what 'might' happen.

This is literally the only defence people have for this "Oh she MIGHT get abusive comments." And again you point out how other people criticise games, both men and women yet they don't censor their viewers, they don't try and force their agendas onto people, and people reply both positively and negatively but also on the subject matter.

Why is she so special that it's ok for her not to allow her critics to comment?

 

 

It is her video. The whole reason for the option to disable comments is so that shitstorms don't happen over content like it is elsewhere. Critics will comment in other places, but just because they can't on Youtube specifically doesn't mean she is forcing her agenda on anyone. She is posting it on Youtube, not plastering her face on every billboard and silencing anyone who responds.

 

Seriously, this seems more like you taking a personal issue with her rather than her content. You keep repeating the same argument over and over.

[Stacy]

It is her video. The whole reason for the option to disable comments is so that shitstorms don't happen over content like it is elsewhere. Critics will comment in other places, but just because they can't on Youtube specifically doesn't mean she is forcing her agenda on anyone. She is posting it on Youtube, not plastering her face on every billboard and silencing anyone who responds.

 

Seriously, this seems more like you taking a personal issue with her rather than her content. You keep repeating the same argument over and over.

 

And You're not? 

[The Kid]

And You're not? 

 

For the last few posts, yes.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=HJihi5rB_Ek

I found this woman's response to be very reasonable and educated. She has alot of valid points.

That was posted earlier in this topic, I think.

People have been, I alone have posted tons of examples in this topic of people doing that, other people here have also done the same when it's not being ignored by the majority of those who are supporting her.

Yeah, and I'm obviously not talking about the ones that are being reasonable. I'm talking about the ones going "STFU you dumb cunt" and anything of that nature.

Yeah... yet you still can't actually defend this action can you?

 

The only defence people have for this is 'she might get nasty comments.'

 

How about that those "nasty comments" completely drown out the non-nasty ones, and make it pointless to even have if 90% of those comments are nothing but insults to her?

 

She's become infamous throughout the internet for her kickstarter for even daring to tackle the subject, and I don't find it reasonable to leave comments open when all it would be is nothing but insults. And this being said, I'm critical of Anita myself, but I don't find allowing room for inevitable comments like these:

To be worth allowing comments on in the first place if that's what I'm gonna see scrolling down. And she's suppose to report every single one of those and you honestly think Youtube is going to make the time to go through and deal with each and every one of them for each and every video she makes? I find that hard to believe.

 

The comment boxes aren't the only place where someone can get their words out, and considering how much of a cesspool comments can be, I don't see any problem with closing them. If you want to criticize her, then here's a thought: make your own video and do so that way. You don't have to worry about her censoring you if you go that route, you could probably do it cheaper than her, and you'll still get your voice out and say a lot more than what you could ever say in the comment section given the 500 word limit.

Edited August 8, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Autosaver]

 

I like how everyone in the game is a stereotype and yet she focuses only on the girl thinking it's an attack on women. Wow.

[turbojet]

 

I like how everyone in the game is a stereotype and yet she focuses only on the girl thinking it's an attack on women. Wow.

Wonder Eyes Black is literally a black guy. This is like Power Rangers narm and it was amazing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I saw the trailer...can't say she doesn't have a point.

 

...except I kinda like the trailer.

[Pawn]

The trailer outright focuses on the character's breasts and arse and to top it off she jiggles the latter towards the camera. While it may not be everything that you shouldn't do with a female character, it's easy to see where she's coming from.